Hello everyone, I have noticed that no one is impressed by the black shoal...
for those of you who dont know what it is...
Sickening Shoal XBB
Instint-Arcane
Alternate cast of pitching black card
Target creature gets -x-x where x is cc until eot
it seems to me that this is an impressive fast and powerfull form of creature kill.First it is an instint and arcane this means that you can cast this sucker at any time by pitching any card hmmm lets see turn 2 enforcer... pitch barter in blood. I only say its arcane because you can splice Hirobi's Wisper and of offset the card disadvantage. This is one of the first truly fast and versitial kill cards black has had since torment.
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I don't see the Black Shoal doing much for standard... I mean, we already have cheap single-shot kill that doesn't present card disadvantage. I think the shoal is a good card, all in all, but I don't think it's standard worthy when black already has so many answers to single creatures.
I don't see the Black Shoal doing much for standard... I mean, we already have cheap single-shot kill that doesn't present card disadvantage. I think the shoal is a good card, all in all, but I don't think it's standard worthy when black already has so many answers to single creatures.
Basically what he said. Card disatvantages importance can't be underestimated. If the card said discard the card then it might be more useful since the card can be brought back any number of ways. However, since the card says to remove it from the game it becomes substantially worse.
You gotta remember though, by using the alternate casting cost on the Shoal you get a free Arcane spell, which is one advantage that could be exploited.
Otherwise, I don't think they'll see too much play.
i cant c how tis card is good.. it's gonna get even more worse later in the game, when creature get much bigger.. dark banishin or terror is the the best..
well the only way i think it's good is if you are being mana screwed or have an unplayable hand, and they have this slowly buklding wall of creatures. it's nice last ditch defensive trick, but it won't win games, which is how the best type 2 players view cards. "will this win me the game?" free is nice, but this spell is technically not free when you're forced to discard something that could win you the game later.
well the only way i think it's good is if you are being mana screwed or have an unplayable hand, and they have this slowly buklding wall of creatures. it's nice last ditch defensive trick, but it won't win games, which is how the best type 2 players view cards. "will this win me the game?" free is nice, but this spell is technically not free when you're forced to discard something that could win you the game later.
You don't HAVE to use the alternate casting cost. The flexibility that this card provides is what makes it good. It is primarily a limited spell and will be usually be a first pick if you are in black. I could also see it being played in block constructed decks if black ends up strong.
I like the idea of the card, but the problem is more or less the same as always...this is terrible against Ravager, and not much better against anything else. I can imagine if the combo deck with the red Shoal picked up poopularity though, and you had to have these to combat losing to the coin flip......OK, no, that's not ever gonna happen. Funny thought though.
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It will be played, but only in mono black or close to it. It requires quite a color commitment, and it will be either a very aggressive or very controlling build.
We will have to see what this set does to standard, it will either have almost no affect onthe environment, or it will completely change the format, that is what i predict.
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Also really ticks the People who play Darksteel-march of the machines decks and those Black mages who can't afford Pull under... or their opponent having Konda smashing thier face in...
With Darksteel, Konda, the Myojin and now That Which Was Taken, we have a handful of cards that are indestructible, one of which can make anything else so. Cards that give -X/-X or remove from the game are going to be more in demand, at least in Standard.
You don't HAVE to remove a card, so if you're sitting on 5 or 6 mana during your opponent's you can drop their creature and not lose card advantage, and you get the bonus ability of being able to pitch if you WANT/NEED to in order to save mana. All this with Arcane and you get a solid card. I wish it wasn't rare, but what can you do?
I can see it getting play, although decks like B/G would need to add a few more black cards.
This is a very versitle card, it can be very nice to turn 0 kill a Disciple or other stuff, while at the same time you can use it turn 3+ to kill something or even turn 2 echoing decay + this or turn 3 Rend Flesh + this. However I couldn't see running more than 3 in a deck.
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I am fully awear of the Card Disad, however, People play Force of Will and for the longest time, Misdirection. If there is card draw to offset the disad, the card is playable. It is also a great card because it CAN deal with ravager, enforcer and anything else affinity has, they say you pitch barter in blood or Eradicate or Persicute, to shoal an early to mid ravager
they eather let it die or sac several permanants. Ether way it helps, the threat dies (that terror cant deal with) or you gain card advangage. if it lives then rend flesh/dark banishing. Its not ment to be a game winner, its ment to kill threats early to mid game threats like smother or edict. Even in late game it still does have value due to Extra planar lens. It seems to me that this will be a staple in MBC if it returns. Seeing how many efficent black hand disruption, draw/ tutor and creature kill are now avilable in type 2 it is defenatly a possiblity.
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Sets in Progress:
Genesis Complete!!! 306/306
(Land centered mechanics Affinity for lands; Synergy with lands (Affinity for activated abilities)
(Extended-ish Power level) PM me if you are interested
Awakening ?/180: Features Domain, with more land comes more mastery over the elements. Channel and Growth are expanded making landcasting more interesting.
this is one of the best targeted removal spells black has ever had. i really cant think of a better one off hand (maybe smother). i can even see this being played in type 1 u/b control (mostly as a free wish target). really, this is a great card.
i understand the card disadvantage... but that is not all there is to the game.
sickening Shoal is a very good card and will see play in Type 2. It is indiscriminate about what it can target and black has plenty of was around the card disadvantage if it chooses to play them. Night's Whisper and Phyrexian Arena provide extra cards to pitch. You can even pitch those if your life total runs a bit low. This Shoal isn't overpowering and doesn't just win the game like the red one can but that doesn't mean it isn't good. Remember, you Attack with you Spark Elemental on turn one after pitching a Myojin and a Furnace Dragon to a pair of blazing Shoals while I just pitch any black card to nuke the turn one win. Oh and I still have more than one card in my hand and haven't even taken a turn yet.
Would've been nice if they had worded it more in flavor with Horobi's Whisper (Alternate cost=Remove a card in your graveyard from the game, Target creature gets -X/-X until end of turn, where X is removed card's converted mana cost). That would make it a dead card early on, but much better later.
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this is one of the best targeted removal spells black has ever had. i really cant think of a better one off hand (maybe smother). i can even see this being played in type 1 u/b control (mostly as a free wish target). really, this is a great card.
i understand the card disadvantage... but that is not all there is to the game.
What about Terminate? Anyway, I don't see what's so great about this card. Compare with Consume Spirit. I know I won't be playing this thing.
Terminate wasn't fully black, it required a red/black deck or City of brass/colour fixing. Monoblack likes this better than terminate. Also, Consume Spirit wasn't an instant. A better comparism: compare its hardcast version to Swallowing Plague... (Creatures can regenerate from plague, Sickening shoal kills indestructable/regeneraters, but Plague gains you life, Shoal is instant, Plague is not) And Sickening shoal has the alternate cost, making it more versatile than Swallowing Plague or Consume Spirit.
Its goodness lies in its versatility.
Sickening Shoal can be very good, but it requires a format with much more card advantage than type 2 currently has. Alternate casting cost cards work in ext. because they can be played to increase tempo while barely taking away from the long game, in type 2 that is much different, so this will hurt you in the long game. This may be played in younger formats, but not as successfully as it may be played with in ext.
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I'm split on the issue, it'll be great just like any other piece of removal is in limited, but in constructed it's slightly more dubious. The only real use for the card is with the alternate casting cost, paying 4BB to kill a enforcer, 5BB to kill an arc-slogger or 6BB to kill a greater harvester is not viable even at instant speed and paying 2BB to kill a frogmite is pretty bad too. Basically using its actual cost to kill anything is bad it's to expensive for a weenie remover(echoing decay is much better) and as a high end remover it's much too slow. The alternate cost is interesting but i'm not sure that the versitility of it's kill is worth the card disadvantage, the only type of deck i could actually see getting use out of it would be a deck with a high number of redundant legendary cards. Overall if you won't to be able to kill any targetable creature it's better to use devour in shadow, i'd rather lose the life than the cards.
This card will find a home if a competitive suicide black deck can be made in standard. There's nothing like building up your army and still be able to kill opposing critters... It's just that I don't see that competitive sui-deck yet.
i watch a lot of and play a little vintage where i'm from, and when the goblin deck goes turn 1 lackey, the necro/black deck HAS to contagion it despite card disadvantage. there are a lot of situations like this in standard, where for example you tap out to stabilize the board vs affinity then your opponent goes ravager, disciple and you lose. this stops that. its not pretty and its raw card disadvantage but history teaches us that if a spell can be cast for 0 mana, it will be good.
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for those of you who dont know what it is...
Sickening Shoal XBB
Instint-Arcane
Alternate cast of pitching black card
Target creature gets -x-x where x is cc until eot
it seems to me that this is an impressive fast and powerfull form of creature kill.First it is an instint and arcane this means that you can cast this sucker at any time by pitching any card hmmm lets see turn 2 enforcer... pitch barter in blood. I only say its arcane because you can splice Hirobi's Wisper and of offset the card disadvantage. This is one of the first truly fast and versitial kill cards black has had since torment.
Genesis Complete!!! 306/306
(Land centered mechanics Affinity for lands; Synergy with lands (Affinity for activated abilities)
(Extended-ish Power level) PM me if you are interested
Awakening ?/180: Features Domain, with more land comes more mastery over the elements. Channel and Growth are expanded making landcasting more interesting.
In the future, please check to make sure your post/topic is going in the right place before posting it.
I don't see the Black Shoal doing much for standard... I mean, we already have cheap single-shot kill that doesn't present card disadvantage. I think the shoal is a good card, all in all, but I don't think it's standard worthy when black already has so many answers to single creatures.
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Basically what he said. Card disatvantages importance can't be underestimated. If the card said discard the card then it might be more useful since the card can be brought back any number of ways. However, since the card says to remove it from the game it becomes substantially worse.
Otherwise, I don't think they'll see too much play.
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You don't HAVE to use the alternate casting cost. The flexibility that this card provides is what makes it good. It is primarily a limited spell and will be usually be a first pick if you are in black. I could also see it being played in block constructed decks if black ends up strong.
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We will have to see what this set does to standard, it will either have almost no affect onthe environment, or it will completely change the format, that is what i predict.
Hopefully i will have a swelling of pride sometime soon..........
If you dont get that, look at my username, and if you still dont get it, than your to young to have an account on here without your parents permission, YOU ARE A BAD LITTLE CHILD!!!!
Also really ticks the People who play Darksteel-march of the machines decks and those Black mages who can't afford Pull under... or their opponent having Konda smashing thier face in...
You don't HAVE to remove a card, so if you're sitting on 5 or 6 mana during your opponent's you can drop their creature and not lose card advantage, and you get the bonus ability of being able to pitch if you WANT/NEED to in order to save mana. All this with Arcane and you get a solid card. I wish it wasn't rare, but what can you do?
This is a very versitle card, it can be very nice to turn 0 kill a Disciple or other stuff, while at the same time you can use it turn 3+ to kill something or even turn 2 echoing decay + this or turn 3 Rend Flesh + this. However I couldn't see running more than 3 in a deck.
EDH:
:symw::symu: Hannah
Sad Day's Tommorow
Almost Nine-Tails
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Legacy:
they eather let it die or sac several permanants. Ether way it helps, the threat dies (that terror cant deal with) or you gain card advangage. if it lives then rend flesh/dark banishing. Its not ment to be a game winner, its ment to kill threats early to mid game threats like smother or edict. Even in late game it still does have value due to Extra planar lens. It seems to me that this will be a staple in MBC if it returns. Seeing how many efficent black hand disruption, draw/ tutor and creature kill are now avilable in type 2 it is defenatly a possiblity.
Genesis Complete!!! 306/306
(Land centered mechanics Affinity for lands; Synergy with lands (Affinity for activated abilities)
(Extended-ish Power level) PM me if you are interested
Awakening ?/180: Features Domain, with more land comes more mastery over the elements. Channel and Growth are expanded making landcasting more interesting.
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i understand the card disadvantage... but that is not all there is to the game.
What about Terminate? Anyway, I don't see what's so great about this card. Compare with Consume Spirit. I know I won't be playing this thing.
Its goodness lies in its versatility.
Hopefully i will have a swelling of pride sometime soon..........
If you dont get that, look at my username, and if you still dont get it, than your to young to have an account on here without your parents permission, YOU ARE A BAD LITTLE CHILD!!!!
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