I don't know, the card just doesn't seem very good to me honestly. Yeah, it'd be nice to RFG a Mana Leak in order to counter a Ravager..but it just seems much too situational, and so useless late game, to actually be very good. I guess you technically CAN pay for it, but, that just seems stupid. If mono-blue was actually playable(it's really not), this might be more worthwhile.
I think this is playable, but its the red and green ones (assuming the rumored green was is real) that will be seen like everywhere. They are so much the nutz.
And Kaizer, how about 3 in major sets:
Onslaught: Ixidor's Will, Complicate, Discombobulate
Mirrodin: Annul, Override, Assert Authority
Champions: Hinder, Hisoka's Defiance, Thoughtbind
And 2 or more in expansions:
Scourge: Dispersal Shield, Hindering Touch, Decree of Silence
Darksteel: Last Word, Vex
Fifth Dawn: Condescend, Fold Into Aether
Betrayers: Distrupting Shoal, Quash, more?
touche!!
[sorry] well, actually i was only referring to the cards that i usually use in standard...
and yes, i overlooked some cards in the process... [/sorry]
[note to self] next time i'll look around (gatherer), before getting pwned like this... [/note to self]
I personally think this is more than playable. It's seems like it would be a nice thing to counter early spells that you absolutely cannot let hit the board. It's an interesting variant on Force of Will, which I personally consider to be the best counter ever printed, so of course it doesn't hold a candle to Force of Will itself. However, I think it has possibilities at least. Obviously only good in a mono-blue deck with a variance of casting costs, but if your casting costs are mostly low, this card should help a lot early game in keeping small threats off the field.
Provided it doesn't turn out to be a money rare, I have to admit to wanting a playset.
I love blue, but i do not think this should be compared whole heartedly to FoW, i think it is a counter spell that forces you to discard. Not that impressive...
Is it force of will? No. But will it be useful in standard? I say yes.
Consider the rising in popularity Mono Blue deck:
Approxamate Decklist:
4 Relic Barrier
4 Annul
4 Mana Leak
4 Hinder
3 Condescend
4 Echoing Truth
4 Vedalken Shackes
1 Keiga/Meloku (Choose your pick, the other goes to sideboard)
4 Thirst for Knowledge
2 Inspiration (I actually like peer through depths better here, but it isn't as ofen used...)
18 Island
4 Stalking Stones
4 Blinkmouth Nexus
Thre are 7 1 cc blue cards (condescend 1x=1 for coverted mana cost), 8 2 cc (10 if you include peer), 8 3 cc (Hinder, Thirst), and 4 4cc, and 1 5 or 6 cc.
Affinity is run by 35-50% of the players.
If affinity goes first, if you are running shoal in place of some nexi and perhaps inspiration, you have a 7 out of 60 chance of countering their first play on your own turn 0. Not too bad.
Second, Like FoW, it provides less danger to tap out.
If you're playing affinity, and you go first (maybe if second, depends),
first turn island, annul their try at putting down a vial.
second turn island, tap both for relic barrier.
Now here you're hoping he either a. doesnt have another land or doesn't have another 1 mana threat, aka aether vial.
now then, you tap down their land, they play another, and another aether vial. You have drawn 7 cards besides the shoal you have in hand, and have to have one of the cards that make up 1/10 of your deck in hand (you have used an annul already....).
Now of course, to compensate for the only 7 1 mana plays that are currently used in mono blue, one may change echoing truths for unsummons. that gives you 11 such cards, for a slight loss of functionality.
Now vs other opponents, a 1st turn can be spent by say birds of paradise, or nothing at all. If you feel the birds are a threat, you can shoal em. If you don't you can board out your shoals for game 2.
Shoals in any other deck on the otherhand are unusable.
BTW, the comparison to Hisoka is laughable. Hisoka costs 4 mana to play originally, then costs 3 mana to play his effect. He is far slower and of course his concept, which is to be able to counter multiple times, is not the same as the shoals at all!
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start value : 0.00
Well, if you think about it, With brainstorm, you can make lots of choices about what to counter.
value : 0.50
and you can hardcast it
value : 0.60
but it is only slightly worse than power sink
value : 0.05
So, I guess it is a 5 cent rare . . .
I personally think that we don't have the full wording on the card, it has to be converted cost of X or less to be even vaguely playable. currently its a move expensive version of spellblast(which was bad) with a next to useless alternate cost ability and its a rare in a cycle of which the other one(blazing shoal in red) is actually friggin excellent, wizards generally try to make cycles at least close to equal in power.
WHAT?! you don't like Hisoka!?! He is tha shizzle. Just cuz it isn't in any top tier decks doesn't mean it isn't a good card. I like him a lot. Especially in an environment where almost everything costs from 1 - 3. You can turn Mana Leaks into hard counters.
This card has the potential to be very good. As long as they make cheap bombs like they have been this will be good.... er... well...
Still I can't not like Hisoka. When you play him he never stays on the board. They have to kill him cuz they don't really quite know what to think of him. My friend played him in FNM and people were so scared that they went to the lengths of Cranial Extraction naming Hisoka. It was so funny. He gives you the look. You can't not admire that.
The obly dek this could be good in would be some sort of blue skies deck, yes it may be card disadvantage, but if you no what to look out for, than you could keep a shoal and a card of that cmc in your hand. It would let you tap out to keep on the pressure and it would let you counter whatever card you are afraid of. That is the best use i can see for this card, and even though it is not that great, it will still allow for you to play a counter when tapped out, granted it may not be that good, but if your deck has the right cards/cmc, and you no what you shoud be afraid of from your opponent, then it can serve its purpose. Now if only fish in type two had good creatures. I think all it needs is a 2 mana 2 power flyer and it might work, and no spire golem doesnt count.
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Hopefully i will have a swelling of pride sometime soon..........
If you dont get that, look at my username, and if you still dont get it, than your to young to have an account on here without your parents permission, YOU ARE A BAD LITTLE CHILD!!!!
Actually when it comes to cards its not just the ones that they say suck that end up popular its also the ones they say rock and they are extremely high then realize how bad they are.
Of course there are those cases where it is a great card but nobody uses it, Vedelkan Orrery anyone?
I hope for this sets sake it goes more on white and ninjas, I personally love the ninjitsu ability, Wanna see more of that! Oh and I just love those enchanted land cards that make the land into a creature, can we say Crucible? just incase someone blasts your land you will all ways get the land and the enchantment back. yay
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It sounds good for a skies deck, maybe in the board.
1cc: Serum Visions, Blue Frostling, Annul
2cc: Spiketail Hatchling
3cc: 2/2 flying legend (BoK),neurok spy
4cc: Ninjas of all shapes and sizes
I would laugh so hard if this saw play in t1. hahah as a free counter counter. i can see it now:
"i'll mana drain your time walk"
"Nope i'll FoW your drain"
"Sorry i'll FoW your FoW"
"Nope I'll Disrupting Shoal your original Mana Drain"
LOL. Wow, that would be the day that I would consider quitting magic if this POS made it into t1. Then again ppl said All Suns Dawn would be in t1 decks too. On second thought i've never laughed that hard.
WHAT?! you don't like Hisoka!?! He is tha shizzle. Just cuz it isn't in any top tier decks doesn't mean it isn't a good card. I like him a lot. Especially in an environment where almost everything costs from 1 - 3. You can turn Mana Leaks into hard counters.
This card has the potential to be very good. As long as they make cheap bombs like they have been this will be good.... er... well...
Still I can't not like Hisoka. When you play him he never stays on the board. They have to kill him cuz they don't really quite know what to think of him. My friend played him in FNM and people were so scared that they went to the lengths of Cranial Extraction naming Hisoka. It was so funny. He gives you the look. You can't not admire that.
izzle.
LOL! *rubs hands together and begins planning an unbeatable hisoka deck*
haha i can see where your coming from though. yoiu know he's bad, but honestly i wouldnt want him on the board opposite me either....
OK, here's why I don't like the Blue Shoal: all things being equal, it loses against the other Shoals. For example, Red Guy freecasts Shoal removing 5cc red spell. Blue Guy must remove a *7*cc spell to freecast his Shoal. Just not fair.
Hisoka may have creature fragility, but he is sooo much better than this Shoal.
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I hate the blue shoal... it coulve been sooo much better... mayb something like counter the spell if it cost X or less or maybe is they dont pay X...it would still be massive card diadvantage for the blue player and its not a hard counter like force of will is
"OK, here's why I don't like the Blue Shoal: all things being equal, it loses against the other Shoals. For example, Red Guy freecasts Shoal removing 5cc red spell. Blue Guy must remove a *7*cc spell to freecast his Shoal. Just not fair."
Uhhh, no. the spell you remove would have to be 2cc not 7cc. The CMC of the red shoal is 2 if they remove a card from the game.
"OK, here's why I don't like the Blue Shoal: all things being equal, it loses against the other Shoals. For example, Red Guy freecasts Shoal removing 5cc red spell. Blue Guy must remove a *7*cc spell to freecast his Shoal. Just not fair."
Uhhh, no. the spell you remove would have to be 2cc not 7cc. The CMC of the red shoal is 2 if they remove a card from the game.
'friad you're wrong. Spells on the stack include X in their Converted Mana cost. Everywhere else (hand, graveyard, removed from game) the Shoals have CMC of 2. On the stack, it's 2+X.
whoah guys, you are underrating this card, because it will be ok sometimes (against cheap spells you can just pay), and occasionally you get lucky. In limited it could end up being the 37th - 40th card in the deck
Um how can this be the 37-40 card in the deck, those are normally lands for me. This should not be played in limited as counteerspells have never really been good in limited, especially ones that give your opponent card advantage.
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Formerly corn hulio.
Hopefully i will have a swelling of pride sometime soon..........
If you dont get that, look at my username, and if you still dont get it, than your to young to have an account on here without your parents permission, YOU ARE A BAD LITTLE CHILD!!!!
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touche!!
[sorry] well, actually i was only referring to the cards that i usually use in standard...
and yes, i overlooked some cards in the process... [/sorry]
[note to self] next time i'll look around (gatherer), before getting pwned like this... [/note to self]
Type 2 :
W U Solution.dec
Ravnica Block :
U B Glimpse.dec
Provided it doesn't turn out to be a money rare, I have to admit to wanting a playset.
Consider the rising in popularity Mono Blue deck:
Approxamate Decklist:
4 Relic Barrier
4 Annul
4 Mana Leak
4 Hinder
3 Condescend
4 Echoing Truth
4 Vedalken Shackes
1 Keiga/Meloku (Choose your pick, the other goes to sideboard)
4 Thirst for Knowledge
2 Inspiration (I actually like peer through depths better here, but it isn't as ofen used...)
18 Island
4 Stalking Stones
4 Blinkmouth Nexus
Thre are 7 1 cc blue cards (condescend 1x=1 for coverted mana cost), 8 2 cc (10 if you include peer), 8 3 cc (Hinder, Thirst), and 4 4cc, and 1 5 or 6 cc.
Affinity is run by 35-50% of the players.
If affinity goes first, if you are running shoal in place of some nexi and perhaps inspiration, you have a 7 out of 60 chance of countering their first play on your own turn 0. Not too bad.
Second, Like FoW, it provides less danger to tap out.
If you're playing affinity, and you go first (maybe if second, depends),
first turn island, annul their try at putting down a vial.
second turn island, tap both for relic barrier.
Now here you're hoping he either a. doesnt have another land or doesn't have another 1 mana threat, aka aether vial.
now then, you tap down their land, they play another, and another aether vial. You have drawn 7 cards besides the shoal you have in hand, and have to have one of the cards that make up 1/10 of your deck in hand (you have used an annul already....).
Now of course, to compensate for the only 7 1 mana plays that are currently used in mono blue, one may change echoing truths for unsummons. that gives you 11 such cards, for a slight loss of functionality.
Now vs other opponents, a 1st turn can be spent by say birds of paradise, or nothing at all. If you feel the birds are a threat, you can shoal em. If you don't you can board out your shoals for game 2.
Shoals in any other deck on the otherhand are unusable.
BTW, the comparison to Hisoka is laughable. Hisoka costs 4 mana to play originally, then costs 3 mana to play his effect. He is far slower and of course his concept, which is to be able to counter multiple times, is not the same as the shoals at all!
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
Well, if you think about it, With brainstorm, you can make lots of choices about what to counter.
value : 0.50
and you can hardcast it
value : 0.60
but it is only slightly worse than power sink
value : 0.05
So, I guess it is a 5 cent rare . . .
Machius proudly supports R_E's right to Rumour!
This card has the potential to be very good. As long as they make cheap bombs like they have been this will be good.... er... well...
Still I can't not like Hisoka. When you play him he never stays on the board. They have to kill him cuz they don't really quite know what to think of him. My friend played him in FNM and people were so scared that they went to the lengths of Cranial Extraction naming Hisoka. It was so funny. He gives you the look. You can't not admire that.
izzle.
Hopefully i will have a swelling of pride sometime soon..........
If you dont get that, look at my username, and if you still dont get it, than your to young to have an account on here without your parents permission, YOU ARE A BAD LITTLE CHILD!!!!
Of course there are those cases where it is a great card but nobody uses it, Vedelkan Orrery anyone?
I hope for this sets sake it goes more on white and ninjas, I personally love the ninjitsu ability, Wanna see more of that! Oh and I just love those enchanted land cards that make the land into a creature, can we say Crucible? just incase someone blasts your land you will all ways get the land and the enchantment back. yay
:type: The Computer loves you! The Computer is your friend! You are happy, cause the Computer says so!
Is the Computer ever wrong? :type:
1cc: Serum Visions, Blue Frostling, Annul
2cc: Spiketail Hatchling
3cc: 2/2 flying legend (BoK),neurok spy
4cc: Ninjas of all shapes and sizes
Im gonna pick em up some and try it out.
Except that it costs :xmana::symu::symu:. The only other cards with the cost are...:
Braingeyser (A,B,U,R Rare)
Iceberg (IA Uncommon)
Reshape (DS Rare)
Venarian Gold (LG Common)
Sorry, but I doubt you'll see those cards in your pile often.
"i'll mana drain your time walk"
"Nope i'll FoW your drain"
"Sorry i'll FoW your FoW"
"Nope I'll Disrupting Shoal your original Mana Drain"
LOL. Wow, that would be the day that I would consider quitting magic if this POS made it into t1. Then again ppl said All Suns Dawn would be in t1 decks too. On second thought i've never laughed that hard.
LOL! *rubs hands together and begins planning an unbeatable hisoka deck*
haha i can see where your coming from though. yoiu know he's bad, but honestly i wouldnt want him on the board opposite me either....
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Hisoka may have creature fragility, but he is sooo much better than this Shoal.
follow me." -- Twelfth Night
Uhhh, no. the spell you remove would have to be 2cc not 7cc. The CMC of the red shoal is 2 if they remove a card from the game.
'friad you're wrong. Spells on the stack include X in their Converted Mana cost. Everywhere else (hand, graveyard, removed from game) the Shoals have CMC of 2. On the stack, it's 2+X.
Hopefully i will have a swelling of pride sometime soon..........
If you dont get that, look at my username, and if you still dont get it, than your to young to have an account on here without your parents permission, YOU ARE A BAD LITTLE CHILD!!!!