KPDaly: that kind of affinty would be beaten to a pulp with all the artifact hate around. Wouldn't stand a chance. Actually, without DotV it probably wouldn't stand much of a chance either.
Actually, that kind of Affinity wouldn't exist. If the cards were printed as stated, Ravager decks would never have been created. Honestly, I think that would have made the format healtheir. Some might say TNN would then dominate, but TNN has a LOT of weak matchups that weren't in tournaments because they lost to Affinity. My point was more to show how overpowered Mirrodin was by showing how much would have to be done just to bring the top deck down to average-deck status.
Affinity is/was powerful ONLY because of its combination with other cards in the set. So instead of looking at this as "OMG, ONE CARD TO RULE THEM ALL, ONE CARD TO BIND THEM!", perhaps you should look at the bigger picture here, "Support and combo mechanics".
The set overall doesnt seem high on a power level basis. It definatly shapes block very nicely as the Ninja mechanics may very well be playable in block. Overall this is definatly seems like a casual player may enjoy this set some more.
Some of the Shoals are probably hidden gems and the most of the Genjus could be constructed worthy (why do you think there is so much enchanment hate).
Worst set ever? Hardly, from a limited standpoint, things get very interesting when adding in Betrayers to the Champions cardpool. For constructed, I thik this set definately has its fair share of playables. A 5/5 legend for 4 mana with little drawback, the Genju, the Shoals, etc. and thats not even an in-depth look at the set.
OK, so we don't have the whole spoiler, but we've got most of it. What do you think of BoK so far?
I think it will make limited a lot more interesting. Ninjitsu seems like it will be fairly powerful, and the alternate cost Splice cards and the Shoals mean the other guy could always have a trick. The White Shoal is a huge bomb, and would be even without the ACC.
BoK also seems to have a lot of fun casual cards. Genju of the Realm, the tribal patrons, Mirror Gallery and several others have big effects but aren't likely to see much Standard or Extended play. I guess this follows the trend of 2nd sets being the least powerful in the block (excluding Ravager/Skullclamp set... I mean Darksteel). Maybe Splinter will prove usefull against Affinity, but its pretty useless with a Ravager out or a Shrapnel Blast in hand.
I like that red is getting some decent, non tribal dependant one drops (Frostling, Goblin Cohort?). Haven't had one of those since Grim Lavamancer.
are you kidding me?! Betrayer's to me, is shaping up to be one of the best sets, literally. I love ninjutsu, ninjas rock, arcane gets some fun stuff, there are the usual jonny cards, and of course some cards are gonna suck, but some will stand out, shoals and genjus rock too!@!!!!
-Alpha
I sort of agree with AlphaInsidious. I mean the cards don't look that bad. whenever I see a set on paper, I always thing that it's going to suck. What once they enter the metagame, and people start using them, I mean, they can get powerful. What you think might suck now, could be amazing later.
I'm a heavy casual player who respects fun ideas and combos... I love this block with a passion... this set, from what I've seen so far hasen't failed to impress me yet, sure theirs some junk in it... their is always junk in a set... but the good far out-waighs the bad in this senario...
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Brian Tinsman, Set Designer :?mana::snow::snow:
Legendary Creature – Human Designer (MR)
Brian Tinsman, Set Designer can only be cast during the third set of a block.
When Brian Tinsman, Set Designer enters the battlefield, ignore all flavor and mechanics of the first two sets in the block. "Ok so what do we have here... gothic horror? Scrap it. Expand the Devine Vs. Demonic duel deck to 244 cards and print it!"
2/2
I LOVE this set and block! all those who say Mirroden rocked but this block sucked $u!cc!de ASAP! J/K... but open your filthy eyes one in a while!
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Brian Tinsman, Set Designer :?mana::snow::snow:
Legendary Creature – Human Designer (MR)
Brian Tinsman, Set Designer can only be cast during the third set of a block.
When Brian Tinsman, Set Designer enters the battlefield, ignore all flavor and mechanics of the first two sets in the block. "Ok so what do we have here... gothic horror? Scrap it. Expand the Devine Vs. Demonic duel deck to 244 cards and print it!"
2/2
There is no need to scream "this set sucks!!!!" Some of the posts here are from the same posters that scream the words again and again, everytime the new set comes out. What about genjus? What about ninjas?
Mirrodin rocked. I, personally, think the block to be best block ever. So everything that come after sucks automatically? The same people that criticized CHK are here again. If you don't like it, do not play with it. But Magic is about changes, boys. I like the high flavor of whole Kamigawa block and I am already curious what SOK is going to add.
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100% Vorthos Spike and Storyline Expert
Former Fact Prospector of the Greek Alliance.
Let this great clan rest in peace (2001-2011)
to Car: like-wise... this is my favorite block sence a long time... Onslaught was meh... as I copulden't really see any decks that fitted me at the time... Mirroden was pure evil... but it game us some intresting card... hell, just snip DotV and everythings better... kinda'.
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Brian Tinsman, Set Designer :?mana::snow::snow:
Legendary Creature – Human Designer (MR)
Brian Tinsman, Set Designer can only be cast during the third set of a block.
When Brian Tinsman, Set Designer enters the battlefield, ignore all flavor and mechanics of the first two sets in the block. "Ok so what do we have here... gothic horror? Scrap it. Expand the Devine Vs. Demonic duel deck to 244 cards and print it!"
2/2
Afterthought:
Ninjas are nifty, but they are just saboteurs, and you cant have an army consisting of only spies. I might be proven wrong though.
Genjus are very welcome additions to almost any deck.
Snakes are going wild and..
Green is just crazy but....
Nurturing Shoal is everyone's worst nightmare come true. It gains life!!!!!
bleh.
Money rares: Goryo's Vengence, Blazing Shoal, Patron of the Orochi.
Possible money rares: Ink-eyes, Toshi, Patron of the Akki
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Quote from DoucheWaffle »
am i the only one refreshing magic websites while looking at porn and eating fruit loops at 2 in the morning?...i feel so alone...
......WTF????....... I don't even know what kind of warning you deserve for this....
Most of the cards are for limited or casual play, and the only thing Constructed that will see play is Return to Dreams... or whatever the name was exactly...
Quash MIGHT see play, but BoK is not really a set for Type 2 at the moment.
Lots of fun in this set and lots of cards with potential. The Shoals alone make interesting things happen, then you add on Ninjutsu and everything else and you have a very entertaining set, in my opinion.
Samurai and Ninja Beatdown!:Sword5::Weapon5::Sword2::Magic10::love:
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L5R or MTG, if it's got Samurai, Knights or Soldiers, it's all good as far as I'm concerned.
while we were slowly getting cards in, i was never that impressed... but looking over the full spoiler with a highlighter has made me dizzy! i think block will be CRAZY. t2 won't shift too much until Mirrodin leaves, but when it does i think T2 will be just insane with crazy combos. though i don't know how easy this set will be to draft (everyone gunning for ninjas and red) i can't wait for saturday!
I have tunnel vision because, at least until I have more time to playtest environments fully, I stick to tapping Mountains and swinging for 2 whenever possible. The red looks like it will develop into a solid Block deck, and augment the existing but I'm leaving it to other people to do the playtesting and get back to me with a tuned decklist.
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This is my Jackal Pup. There are many like it, but this one is mine. My Jackal Pup is my best friend. It is my life. I must master it as I must master my life. My Jackal Pup without me is useless. Without my Jackal Pup, I am useless. I must tap my Jackal Pup true. I must tap faster than my enemy who is trying to kill me. I must beat him down before he beats me down. I will.
You Know, this set effectively breaks the trend for 2nd block=suck.
I have counted up possible tp2 cards and im happy to say that over 70 cards are possiblly playable... The shoals are probaly the the most impressive cards i have seen in awhile even the blue and green shoals might see play. You can NEVER underestimate the power of a free counter spell no matter how narrow.
The green shoal could possibly help t&N stall one more turn or 2 to go off.
Sickening shoal Shining shoal and Burning shoal are all impressive, sick is the best early game creature kill in the format, it can kill ravager/ enforcer starting turn 0. that is nothing to sneer at. Burning shoal could easly go to extended or typ1 if it ever goes back to agro, and it makes shigh a definate possibility. The genjus are all solid (exept the mulit colored one). the red is the harrold of sligh (agin) the White Blue and Black ones scream control finnisher. and the Green gives us somthing for tooth and nail/green agro (very possible with troll tangle golom fargrenn first ect.) The urza lebotomy cycle is welcome. Quash is a little out of place but with all the ammo that mbc wbc mwc t&n cristal whitness have gained, quash may be sided in or even main decked.
Eradicate...F**k creatures. Die enforcer if ravager i'snt in play. Hoses if no sac answer is avalable. scour...(well at least it kills genjus). Sow salt +big red's new friend. Splinter...another powerfull card in green's holster aginst affinity (see eradicate). All in all i think this set will have a pretty good impact on the typ2 meta game. Affinity will have to work alot harder to win. now every color can deal evectively with artifacts. even white to an extent. All colors now can be used in their respective control decks. Mono Black and white seem to be the best colors. Mono Black will now be viable agin thx to an onslaught of new cheap/effective kill and trix/finnishers and combined with Night's wisper/ Diabolic tutor/ that one draw 5 lose 5 card that escapes me now. MBC could become tire one. White has the shoal the virdict, the ginju and Judgement. Sligh and Green beats are also entirely possible. The genjus are both great the red shoal and patron are both solid and workable. Mir Block has all the green arti hate/ cheep efficent green beatsticks green will ever need. Im my opinion, control will now have its day. and im glad to see it. :smile2:
Sets in Progress:
Genesis Complete!!! 306/306
(Land centered mechanics Affinity for lands; Synergy with lands (Affinity for activated abilities)
(Extended-ish Power level) PM me if you are interested
Awakening ?/180: Features Domain, with more land comes more mastery over the elements. Channel and Growth are expanded making landcasting more interesting.
I think that it's a better second set than Darksteel or Legions was. There is lots of synergy in this set, especially with the spirits. I agree that it's not going to impact T2 right now, but we'll see once Mirrodin block leaves the format its true impact.
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Quote from makkert »
er, considering you avatar, you are now a legend of Chinese literature.. which maybe even better...Go Confusius!
a few frends and I printed out a lot of ravenger, DotV and plaiting pics, glued em' to the backs of lands... and lit them on fire in a parking lot with a large group of people... it was great... cuz the three cards runed Magic.
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Brian Tinsman, Set Designer :?mana::snow::snow:
Legendary Creature – Human Designer (MR)
Brian Tinsman, Set Designer can only be cast during the third set of a block.
When Brian Tinsman, Set Designer enters the battlefield, ignore all flavor and mechanics of the first two sets in the block. "Ok so what do we have here... gothic horror? Scrap it. Expand the Devine Vs. Demonic duel deck to 244 cards and print it!"
2/2
Witness... I like... shes ok... but WHY DO THEY DO THIS TO ME a poor little Johnny/Spike?! Make more cards like Toshi and stuff... make Magic FUN and intresting... let me think, let it be a game were you can sit with friends for an houre and a half, or at least 30 min and not have to scoop as soon as you sit down... FOR GLORY, FOR THE KAMAGAWA BLOCK!!! (and PM me if you wana be in an anti raffinnity club/guild.)
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Brian Tinsman, Set Designer :?mana::snow::snow:
Legendary Creature – Human Designer (MR)
Brian Tinsman, Set Designer can only be cast during the third set of a block.
When Brian Tinsman, Set Designer enters the battlefield, ignore all flavor and mechanics of the first two sets in the block. "Ok so what do we have here... gothic horror? Scrap it. Expand the Devine Vs. Demonic duel deck to 244 cards and print it!"
2/2
yes... I love Kamagawa... but loath raffinnity... it's more of a zelilous thing I think... I liked Wake... so meany different builds... Tog was over used but intersting... I played a guy in casual Real Pain format (you stick a pin in your skin for each one damage to receve, life starts at 25 and you go until you hit 0 or black out) agenst my prototype Toshi deck... he receved 50+ pins... I receved 13... he cried... as the winner in RP... I gave him a slash across the mid section as finnal blood... that's how we play, you would be supprised how few mistakes you make when you do this 'format' we made up... and better yet... were thinking of putting a timmer on turns... 1 min max, over, you get a slap in the face...
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Brian Tinsman, Set Designer :?mana::snow::snow:
Legendary Creature – Human Designer (MR)
Brian Tinsman, Set Designer can only be cast during the third set of a block.
When Brian Tinsman, Set Designer enters the battlefield, ignore all flavor and mechanics of the first two sets in the block. "Ok so what do we have here... gothic horror? Scrap it. Expand the Devine Vs. Demonic duel deck to 244 cards and print it!"
2/2
no... we have a guy who plays a deck he calls 'Enlightenment' who uses life gain and damage reversal... he'll love the new W shoal... also for life ups, you take out one pin per damage and then have an option to endulge in things like water and iodine... I LOVE the format... but they hate me sometimes beacuse the pins and all don't bother me much...
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Brian Tinsman, Set Designer :?mana::snow::snow:
Legendary Creature – Human Designer (MR)
Brian Tinsman, Set Designer can only be cast during the third set of a block.
When Brian Tinsman, Set Designer enters the battlefield, ignore all flavor and mechanics of the first two sets in the block. "Ok so what do we have here... gothic horror? Scrap it. Expand the Devine Vs. Demonic duel deck to 244 cards and print it!"
2/2
Hmm. Some miscreant has edited the title of the thread.
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This is my Jackal Pup. There are many like it, but this one is mine. My Jackal Pup is my best friend. It is my life. I must master it as I must master my life. My Jackal Pup without me is useless. Without my Jackal Pup, I am useless. I must tap my Jackal Pup true. I must tap faster than my enemy who is trying to kill me. I must beat him down before he beats me down. I will.
personally, this set is shaping up to be one of the better sets in a while. sure its not up to the same power level as Mirrodin block, but if you take a moment to think about it, do you really want another Mirrodin right now?
me, i'm sick of mirrodin block. not because i don't like it, just because its got that same stink about it like Urza's Block did. the stink of a lot of broken but not enough to go around.
sure the whole "legend block" thing is a bit clunky, but it could be worse. it could be rebels & mercenaries. Betrayers is shaping up to be a set of higher than usual power but not even approaching sets like Mirrodin and Darksteel for just sheer stupidity.
heh, i even remember people complaining that Mirrodin (and later Darksteel) were going to be the "worsterest set evar!!!!!eleventyone1!!!11!!". When they get done wiping the egg off their collective face, they'll be glad to tell you they were wrong.
besides the whole Splice mechanic and "Spiritcraft," Ninjitsu (its spelled with an I not a U, kids, learn to f'in spell) is going to be an excellent mechanic in limited, and may well see play in constructed.
yes there are filler cards that aren't as good as some of the other, more powerful cards. and yes there will be crap rares, but guess what. some cards are going to be better than others. sometimes its by design, and sometimes its just by sheer dumb luck.
tooth & nail sat in crap rare binders until PT: Kobe. was it really a crap rare before then? possibly, but that doesn't change the fact that its no longer a crappy rare.
when taken in a vacuum, all cards can be judged individually. take a step back and realize that not every card can be an Ancestral Recall, but then again, not every card can be a Sorrow's Path.
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Actually, that kind of Affinity wouldn't exist. If the cards were printed as stated, Ravager decks would never have been created. Honestly, I think that would have made the format healtheir. Some might say TNN would then dominate, but TNN has a LOT of weak matchups that weren't in tournaments because they lost to Affinity. My point was more to show how overpowered Mirrodin was by showing how much would have to be done just to bring the top deck down to average-deck status.
#2. Dungeon Keeper Ami; Proving that sometimes the best Villians are the ones who used to be Heros.
#3. Ow, My Sanity: There are things man was not meant to love.
Some of the Shoals are probably hidden gems and the most of the Genjus could be constructed worthy (why do you think there is so much enchanment hate).
I think it will make limited a lot more interesting. Ninjitsu seems like it will be fairly powerful, and the alternate cost Splice cards and the Shoals mean the other guy could always have a trick. The White Shoal is a huge bomb, and would be even without the ACC.
BoK also seems to have a lot of fun casual cards. Genju of the Realm, the tribal patrons, Mirror Gallery and several others have big effects but aren't likely to see much Standard or Extended play. I guess this follows the trend of 2nd sets being the least powerful in the block (excluding Ravager/Skullclamp set... I mean Darksteel). Maybe Splinter will prove usefull against Affinity, but its pretty useless with a Ravager out or a Shrapnel Blast in hand.
I like that red is getting some decent, non tribal dependant one drops (Frostling, Goblin Cohort?). Haven't had one of those since Grim Lavamancer.
I sort of agree with AlphaInsidious. I mean the cards don't look that bad. whenever I see a set on paper, I always thing that it's going to suck. What once they enter the metagame, and people start using them, I mean, they can get powerful. What you think might suck now, could be amazing later.
Legendary Creature – Human Designer (MR)
Brian Tinsman, Set Designer can only be cast during the third set of a block.
When Brian Tinsman, Set Designer enters the battlefield, ignore all flavor and mechanics of the first two sets in the block.
"Ok so what do we have here... gothic horror? Scrap it. Expand the Devine Vs. Demonic duel deck to 244 cards and print it!"
2/2
Legendary Creature – Human Designer (MR)
Brian Tinsman, Set Designer can only be cast during the third set of a block.
When Brian Tinsman, Set Designer enters the battlefield, ignore all flavor and mechanics of the first two sets in the block.
"Ok so what do we have here... gothic horror? Scrap it. Expand the Devine Vs. Demonic duel deck to 244 cards and print it!"
2/2
Mirrodin rocked. I, personally, think the block to be best block ever. So everything that come after sucks automatically? The same people that criticized CHK are here again. If you don't like it, do not play with it. But Magic is about changes, boys. I like the high flavor of whole Kamigawa block and I am already curious what SOK is going to add.
Let this great clan rest in peace (2001-2011)
Legendary Creature – Human Designer (MR)
Brian Tinsman, Set Designer can only be cast during the third set of a block.
When Brian Tinsman, Set Designer enters the battlefield, ignore all flavor and mechanics of the first two sets in the block.
"Ok so what do we have here... gothic horror? Scrap it. Expand the Devine Vs. Demonic duel deck to 244 cards and print it!"
2/2
I'm already thinking of a 5 colour shrine deck with Mirror Gallery and Genju of the Realm to play in casual/multiplayer games.
Machius proudly supports R_E's right to Rumour!
GREEN IS ALL OVER THE PLACE!!
Afterthought:
Ninjas are nifty, but they are just saboteurs, and you cant have an army consisting of only spies. I might be proven wrong though.
Genjus are very welcome additions to almost any deck.
Snakes are going wild and..
Green is just crazy but....
Nurturing Shoal is everyone's worst nightmare come true. It gains life!!!!!
bleh.
Money rares: Goryo's Vengence, Blazing Shoal, Patron of the Orochi.
Possible money rares: Ink-eyes, Toshi, Patron of the Akki
<Qzilla> losing to girls at magic is such a high
Quash MIGHT see play, but BoK is not really a set for Type 2 at the moment.
[KalmWave] [Last.FM]
Ubuntu Linux
Samurai and Ninja Beatdown!:Sword5::Weapon5::Sword2::Magic10::love:
L5R or MTG, if it's got Samurai, Knights or Soldiers, it's all good as far as I'm concerned.
I have counted up possible tp2 cards and im happy to say that over 70 cards are possiblly playable... The shoals are probaly the the most impressive cards i have seen in awhile even the blue and green shoals might see play. You can NEVER underestimate the power of a free counter spell no matter how narrow.
The green shoal could possibly help t&N stall one more turn or 2 to go off.
Sickening shoal Shining shoal and Burning shoal are all impressive, sick is the best early game creature kill in the format, it can kill ravager/ enforcer starting turn 0. that is nothing to sneer at. Burning shoal could easly go to extended or typ1 if it ever goes back to agro, and it makes shigh a definate possibility. The genjus are all solid (exept the mulit colored one). the red is the harrold of sligh (agin) the White Blue and Black ones scream control finnisher. and the Green gives us somthing for tooth and nail/green agro (very possible with troll tangle golom fargrenn first ect.) The urza lebotomy cycle is welcome. Quash is a little out of place but with all the ammo that mbc wbc mwc t&n cristal whitness have gained, quash may be sided in or even main decked.
Eradicate...F**k creatures. Die enforcer if ravager i'snt in play. Hoses if no sac answer is avalable. scour...(well at least it kills genjus). Sow salt +big red's new friend. Splinter...another powerfull card in green's holster aginst affinity (see eradicate). All in all i think this set will have a pretty good impact on the typ2 meta game. Affinity will have to work alot harder to win. now every color can deal evectively with artifacts. even white to an extent. All colors now can be used in their respective control decks. Mono Black and white seem to be the best colors. Mono Black will now be viable agin thx to an onslaught of new cheap/effective kill and trix/finnishers and combined with Night's wisper/ Diabolic tutor/ that one draw 5 lose 5 card that escapes me now. MBC could become tire one. White has the shoal the virdict, the ginju and Judgement. Sligh and Green beats are also entirely possible. The genjus are both great the red shoal and patron are both solid and workable. Mir Block has all the green arti hate/ cheep efficent green beatsticks green will ever need. Im my opinion, control will now have its day. and im glad to see it. :smile2:
Genesis Complete!!! 306/306
(Land centered mechanics Affinity for lands; Synergy with lands (Affinity for activated abilities)
(Extended-ish Power level) PM me if you are interested
Awakening ?/180: Features Domain, with more land comes more mastery over the elements. Channel and Growth are expanded making landcasting more interesting.
Legendary Creature – Human Designer (MR)
Brian Tinsman, Set Designer can only be cast during the third set of a block.
When Brian Tinsman, Set Designer enters the battlefield, ignore all flavor and mechanics of the first two sets in the block.
"Ok so what do we have here... gothic horror? Scrap it. Expand the Devine Vs. Demonic duel deck to 244 cards and print it!"
2/2
Legendary Creature – Human Designer (MR)
Brian Tinsman, Set Designer can only be cast during the third set of a block.
When Brian Tinsman, Set Designer enters the battlefield, ignore all flavor and mechanics of the first two sets in the block.
"Ok so what do we have here... gothic horror? Scrap it. Expand the Devine Vs. Demonic duel deck to 244 cards and print it!"
2/2
Legendary Creature – Human Designer (MR)
Brian Tinsman, Set Designer can only be cast during the third set of a block.
When Brian Tinsman, Set Designer enters the battlefield, ignore all flavor and mechanics of the first two sets in the block.
"Ok so what do we have here... gothic horror? Scrap it. Expand the Devine Vs. Demonic duel deck to 244 cards and print it!"
2/2
Legendary Creature – Human Designer (MR)
Brian Tinsman, Set Designer can only be cast during the third set of a block.
When Brian Tinsman, Set Designer enters the battlefield, ignore all flavor and mechanics of the first two sets in the block.
"Ok so what do we have here... gothic horror? Scrap it. Expand the Devine Vs. Demonic duel deck to 244 cards and print it!"
2/2
R.I.P. Dimebag Darrell 8/20/66 to 12/8/04
The best laid plans of nezumi and humans often go astray.
The Internet: where men are men, women are men, and 13 years old schoolgirls are FBI agents.
"my sister-in-law's brother's college professor was richard garfield"
This is my bunny...he will eat your soul!
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me, i'm sick of mirrodin block. not because i don't like it, just because its got that same stink about it like Urza's Block did. the stink of a lot of broken but not enough to go around.
sure the whole "legend block" thing is a bit clunky, but it could be worse. it could be rebels & mercenaries. Betrayers is shaping up to be a set of higher than usual power but not even approaching sets like Mirrodin and Darksteel for just sheer stupidity.
heh, i even remember people complaining that Mirrodin (and later Darksteel) were going to be the "worsterest set evar!!!!!eleventyone1!!!11!!". When they get done wiping the egg off their collective face, they'll be glad to tell you they were wrong.
besides the whole Splice mechanic and "Spiritcraft," Ninjitsu (its spelled with an I not a U, kids, learn to f'in spell) is going to be an excellent mechanic in limited, and may well see play in constructed.
yes there are filler cards that aren't as good as some of the other, more powerful cards. and yes there will be crap rares, but guess what. some cards are going to be better than others. sometimes its by design, and sometimes its just by sheer dumb luck.
tooth & nail sat in crap rare binders until PT: Kobe. was it really a crap rare before then? possibly, but that doesn't change the fact that its no longer a crappy rare.
when taken in a vacuum, all cards can be judged individually. take a step back and realize that not every card can be an Ancestral Recall, but then again, not every card can be a Sorrow's Path.