Well, across the top that's: Minas Tirith, bats, a Fell Beast, the Witch King, Sauron's evil cloud, Barad-Dur
Across the middle: Oliphaunts (and I assume the Haradrim are there somewhere), the Rohirrim, Theoden, Gothmog (?), Eowyn, Imrahil (?)
Across the bottom: Knight of Gondor, some orcs, Aragorn, Legolas, Gimli, Merry
I think they just legitimately broke the world record for the most espensive mtg card (I’m next to certain it’s value will be 6 figures)
The fatal flaw in WOTC's plan is if someone opens it within the week the set is released. I wonder what the effect on collector boosters would be if that happened.
A week? I give it 48 hours, tops.
Collectors are gonna be big mad about this set. I say let 'em.
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Sauron being a 4/4 bugs me. Isn't he supposed to be a massive battlefield threat?
Also, he actively loses in combat to Teysa Karlov... a lawyer with a bad leg. Lawayers canonically greater that the Dark Lord of Ultimate Evil. Take that Tolkien.
(nerd ramble)
Direct combat isn't really his thing. Aside from that being the Commander precon version and probably very different from the main set version, this is also the Lidless Eye, so pretty much his weakest form at least for fighting someone. In the book, he fought one human and one elf, and all three died. given how many legends of those types are 2/2 or similar, that stat line is a bit of a flavor win. But yeah, in the books, he got killed by a dude and an elf, he had previously lost to an elf and her dog, he ran a bunch of times. he should have some ability to come back, but 4/4 at leas in those last days make sense.
And like i mentioned, fighting wasn't the source of his power. It doesn't matter if you have a 6/6 that can beat him, it has to beat the army of small stuff every Rakdos deck brings first, and also the Ghalta he stole from someone at the table
I would have given him some synergy with the Ring or something, I would not call the whole card a flavor win (we will see the other version) but what's there is solid flavor
That Sauron isn't his Commander deck version, it's his Starter Deck version. It's weak by principle. Every other Sauron card will be stronger.
So, not only Aragorn, but Galadriel and Eowyn as well.
At Reprieve, she looks a lot like just a tiny bit darker Olivia Clarke's Daenerys. And on the Commander deck, assuming it is ALSO Eowyn (because, well, there is exactly NONE other Rohirrim female warrior character), she looks substantially different, with a bronze complexion at best and different facial physiology.
Well, their choice. I won't be mad about it, but I would have not mind them being more true to the source.
So, not only Aragorn, but Galadriel and Eowyn as well.
At Reprieve, she looks a lot like just a tiny bit darker Olivia Clarke's Daenerys. And on the Commander deck, assuming it is ALSO Eowyn (because, well, there is exactly NONE other Rohirrim female warrior character), she looks substantially different, with a bronze complexion at best and different facial physiology.
Well, their choice. I won't be mad about it, but I would have not mind them being more true to the source.
Eh, I think Tom Bombadil getting the God creature type is a bigger deviation than skin color. Tolkien left everything but Tom not being a God to speculation. Elder Bard would've worked better.
So, not only Aragorn, but Galadriel and Eowyn as well.
At Reprieve, she looks a lot like just a tiny bit darker Olivia Clarke's Daenerys. And on the Commander deck, assuming it is ALSO Eowyn (because, well, there is exactly NONE other Rohirrim female warrior character), she looks substantially different, with a bronze complexion at best and different facial physiology.
Well, their choice. I won't be mad about it, but I would have not mind them being more true to the source.
Eh, I think Tom Bombadil getting the God creature type is a bigger deviation than skin color. Tolkien left everything but Tom not being a God to speculation. Elder Bard would've worked better.
He was pretty clear that there is One True God, right? And then that Bombadil was not Eru Iluvitar? I guess Magic decided to draw the line for the god creature type a little lower, possibly because Iluvitar is far too close to God with a capital "G" to get a card.
Speaking of changes to Eowyn, in the Pelennor Fields scene, she's shown without a helmet, readily identifiable when she should be mistakable for any other rider. That revelation is kind of a major plot point.
So, not only Aragorn, but Galadriel and Eowyn as well.
At Reprieve, she looks a lot like just a tiny bit darker Olivia Clarke's Daenerys. And on the Commander deck, assuming it is ALSO Eowyn (because, well, there is exactly NONE other Rohirrim female warrior character), she looks substantially different, with a bronze complexion at best and different facial physiology.
Well, their choice. I won't be mad about it, but I would have not mind them being more true to the source.
Eh, I think Tom Bombadil getting the God creature type is a bigger deviation than skin color. Tolkien left everything but Tom not being a God to speculation. Elder Bard would've worked better.
He was pretty clear that there is One True God, right? And then that Bombadil was not Eru Iluvitar? I guess Magic decided to draw the line for the god creature type a little lower, possibly because Iluvitar is far too close to God with a capital "G" to get a card.
Speaking of changes to Eowyn, in the Pelennor Fields scene, she's shown without a helmet, readily identifiable when she should be mistakable for any other rider. That revelation is kind of a major plot point.
Exactly. i think the people getting mad about Black Aragorn and not Tom as a god or Eowyn with no helmet have made it very clear that faithfulness to Tolkien is not the big concern. I don't want to get warned again, but those same people seemed just excited to see Tom, not bothered by the major contradiction of the word of the author and the most important thing about the character (the mystery of his nature)
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So, not only Aragorn, but Galadriel and Eowyn as well.
At Reprieve, she looks a lot like just a tiny bit darker Olivia Clarke's Daenerys. And on the Commander deck, assuming it is ALSO Eowyn (because, well, there is exactly NONE other Rohirrim female warrior character), she looks substantially different, with a bronze complexion at best and different facial physiology.
Well, their choice. I won't be mad about it, but I would have not mind them being more true to the source.
Eh, I think Tom Bombadil getting the God creature type is a bigger deviation than skin color. Tolkien left everything but Tom not being a God to speculation. Elder Bard would've worked better.
Yeah, but frankly, I always considered Tom Bombadil a god, something as an aspect of Ilúvatar himself on at least Valar level, so I do not quite mind.
*SNIP* What I have said in other threads applies to all threads. Stop starting race and gender identity arguments. These representations are what is being produced, that's all there is to it. We get that some people will not like it, but that's okay. Move on.
Bombadil being a god or, more specifically, a manifestation of the mystery of Creation/The Author itself, beyond even the Valar, while never part of the canon, is something that can be at least deduced from canonical material. On the other hand, Aragorn and Galadriel, the two most important representatives of their respective peoples (a Northern European version of Atlantis, a blessed and chosen people meant to incarnate the virtues of Northern Europe that Tolkien himself said tried to rescue after being corrupted by Nazism; and the Firstborn Elves drawn from Norse and Germanic myth) being black is IMO way more of a misrepresentation.
But, again, face tattoo syndrome. Do something intentionally and evidently controversial, meant to be provocative, but if anyone notices or mentions it, they are bigots, r-ists, etc. It's foolproof marketing.
I think I've learned to treat Magic cards like baseball cards: keep 'em in a binder in numerical order, don't play with 'em, try to finish the set and just keep my head down.
On the other hand, Aragorn and Galadriel, the two most important representatives of their respective peoples (a Northern European version of Atlantis, a blessed and chosen people meant to incarnate the virtues of Northern Europe that Tolkien himself said tried to rescue after being corrupted by Nazism; and the Firstborn Elves drawn from Norse and Germanic myth) being black is IMO way more of a misrepresentation.
Since this seems to be a recurring specific point you have, and I seem to have no luck with Googling this, where does Tolkien discuss the Dúnedain or whomever it is you're referring to as "a blessed and chosen people meant to incarnate the virtues of Northern Europe that Tolkien himself said tried to rescue after being corrupted by Nazism." Like, I can't find him talking about any specific group in the books like that.
I still don't get why this is so offensive to y'all. Is skin color deeply important to the Lord of the Rings series? Is it the sort of thing that not directly adapting fundamentally alters the very nature of the story being told? Based on some of his other writings, I think y'all are getting more upset about this than Tolkien would.
Not a lore expert of Tolkien but from what I read on wikipedia about Tom Bombadil, seems the books really do put emphasis on the fact that it's old, ancient and eldest, (with all his names like Forn, Orald, Iarwain all meaning "old/ancient"), so I agree with everybody saying that "Elder Bard" would had nailed completely, and be even faithful to the aura of mistery about his nature.
I would had said that they preferred to use "God" for gameplay and mechanical reasons (same as preferring Halfling over Hobbit) because God tribal it's an actual thing in EDH, but then again I remembered how in Warhammer 40k they used Nekron and C'ton instead of Zombies and Horror/Demon, so as usual I hate WotC for the inconsistency.
Since this seems to be a recurring specific point you have, and I seem to have no luck with Googling this, where does Tolkien discuss the Dúnedain or whomever it is you're referring to as "a blessed and chosen people meant to incarnate the virtues of Northern Europe that Tolkien himself said tried to rescue after being corrupted by Nazism." Like, I can't find him talking about any specific group in the books like that.
I got a no politics warning so I'll just try to answer this particular address to my post. From his letter #45:
Anyway, I have in this War a burning private grudge – which would probably make me a better soldier at 49 than I was at 22: against that ruddy little ignoramus Adolf Hitler (for the odd thing about demonic inspiration and impetus is that it in no way enhances the purely intellectual stature: it chiefly affects the mere will). Ruining, perverting, misapplying, and making for ever accursed, that noble northern spirit, a supreme contribution to Europe, which I have ever loved, and tried to present in its true light. Nowhere, incidentally, was it nobler than in England, nor more early sanctified and Christianized.
How does this apply to Aragorn? Well, he clearly embodied Tolkien's ideas expressed in this extract, an ideal ruler, a leader of men par excellence, the true king who was to bring about an era of reconciliation betweent the human and the divine. Basically the "king" aspect or avatar of that noble northern spirit (much like Gandalf was the angelic/divine and Frodo the everyman). Now it's true that Tolkien was not a "nordicist" and much less a supremacist of any kind, as much as some people to this day still try to make the public believe (with good success; see what his own British government had to say about his works a few days ago). Regardless of that, Black Aragorn, black Galadriel, mixed race Éowyn, etc, just doesn't feel like Tolkien. It's just a deviation from what Tolkien tried to portray. It's purposely changing part of what the book was talking about, and for no other reason than marketing (how many black employees and artists does Wizards actually give work to again?). Obviously many of its themes and ideas are not linked to any specific real-world group of people and can be appreciated by anyone (and I hope they are for centuries to come!), but the visual appearance of the characters is what gave the story its cultural origin/flavor. Heck, Wizards are experts at this: we have a Greek plane, an East Asian plane, a pre-Columbian/American conquest plane, various other European themed planes, Indian, ancient Egyptian, etc, and for the most part the people inhabiting those planes, as well as the cultural aesthetic, artistic designs, etc, look like they come from the places and periods they are based on. And guess what, that is cool. It gives each world a unique feel. Well, Middle Earth is the OG of precisely that. Every Magic plane is essentially a smaller excercise of what Tolkien was among the first to do.
Now if you don't mind the swaps, that's great, more power to you, clearly Wizards doesn't either. But there's a lot of people who enjoy Middle Earth as a world inspired by a certain cultural identity and aesthetic even if they don't belong to it (I'm latino), and it sucks to be instantly treated as a bigot (not by you, speaking in general) if you don't like it when they change said flavor.
I think I've learned to treat Magic cards like baseball cards: keep 'em in a binder in numerical order, don't play with 'em, try to finish the set and just keep my head down.
I really do not want my thread being locked due to over-stimuli of race/ethnicity debating. If you don't like the color of a characters skin, that's your opinion. You are entitled to it, just don't debate/argue it here. There are plenty of proxy sites. Pick out your own artwork for it, or hell, I'm sure there'll be other like-minded individuals who will create their own are for it. I doubt it's going to be a game changing ultra-sought after chase rare. Buy/open a copy, put it away (in case it's worth a hefty $100 in 20 years from now) and play w/ the proxy. Wham-bam-thank-you-ma'am, problem solved.
The British Government report I'm assuming you're referring to is the RICU and Prevent, yeah? From what I can see, there seem to be a lot of groups mocking the government for it, and saying "the government thinks Tolkien is far right," when the report is actually more along the lines of "There are a significant proportion of far right groups and individuals who utilize these texts as recruitment tools, and mischaracterize the text as fitting their worldview."
Additionally, and I apologize for not making this clearer, what I wanted to see was a quote from Tolkien specifically about how the Dúnedain are this representation you keep speaking of. What you have presented is certainly an interpretation, and not even necessarily a bad one, but the way you spoke about it seemed to imply this was something that Tolkien himself expressed. Because as we both know, the man sincerely disliked allegory.
I just feel that people are getting much more caught up in the skin color of these characters as though that's the parts of the world that Tolkien cared deeply about. It's odd to me that people keep forgetting that Middle Earth was based on the entirety of Europe, and seem to forget that Europe is not, nor has ever been, a purely white continent. It's easy enough to say "I hope you see yourself in this world" and seemingly much harder to actually let people with other skin colors live in it.
It's easy enough to say "I hope you see yourself in this world" and seemingly much harder to actually let people with other skin colors live in it.
Before this discussion, it never even crossed my mind that I would ever need to see latinos in Innistrad in order to feel immersed in Innistrad. Same with Ravnica, Kamigawa, etc. Lorwyn is my favorite plane and there's not even any humans there. Similarly, my heart has lain in Middle Earth my whole life and there's absolutely nothing in there that I could even apply or associate with America, North or South. The fact that apparently more and more people need to see their own ethnicity and culture populating literary and artistic works in order for them to feel like they can immerse themselves in them is to me actually a symptom of a large cultural problem.
I think I've learned to treat Magic cards like baseball cards: keep 'em in a binder in numerical order, don't play with 'em, try to finish the set and just keep my head down.
I'm most sad that Eomer doesn't look like Karl Urban, he looks more like he came from Gondor than Rohan.
I'm always curious about how they do interpret the colour by for these Universe Beyond products. Like what about the Fellowship is meant to be Abzan over say Bant, same for Rohan being Jeskai, when Naya is probably a better fit.
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There is also a lot of art on product packaging worth speculating on.
https://magic.wizards.com/en/news/announcements/a-first-look-at-the-lord-of-the-rings-tales-of-middle-earth
Well, across the top that's: Minas Tirith, bats, a Fell Beast, the Witch King, Sauron's evil cloud, Barad-Dur
Across the middle: Oliphaunts (and I assume the Haradrim are there somewhere), the Rohirrim, Theoden, Gothmog (?), Eowyn, Imrahil (?)
Across the bottom: Knight of Gondor, some orcs, Aragorn, Legolas, Gimli, Merry
And that literally one of a kind one ring is printed in traditional foil? As in, it's gonna pringle?
Wow.
A week? I give it 48 hours, tops.
Collectors are gonna be big mad about this set. I say let 'em.
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Spoiler EditorMy 1570 card cube
My 415 Peasant+ Artifact and Enchantment Cube
lol
Why do they still print those damn pringles?
Edit: Woops, sorry for double post
My 1570 card cube
My 415 Peasant+ Artifact and Enchantment Cube
At Reprieve, she looks a lot like just a tiny bit darker Olivia Clarke's Daenerys. And on the Commander deck, assuming it is ALSO Eowyn (because, well, there is exactly NONE other Rohirrim female warrior character), she looks substantially different, with a bronze complexion at best and different facial physiology.
Well, their choice. I won't be mad about it, but I would have not mind them being more true to the source.
Let this great clan rest in peace (2001-2011)
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Kenessos, Priest of Thassa (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||
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Spoiler EditorJust imagine if it gets crinkled in the packaging.
He was pretty clear that there is One True God, right? And then that Bombadil was not Eru Iluvitar? I guess Magic decided to draw the line for the god creature type a little lower, possibly because Iluvitar is far too close to God with a capital "G" to get a card.
Speaking of changes to Eowyn, in the Pelennor Fields scene, she's shown without a helmet, readily identifiable when she should be mistakable for any other rider. That revelation is kind of a major plot point.
Exactly. i think the people getting mad about Black Aragorn and not Tom as a god or Eowyn with no helmet have made it very clear that faithfulness to Tolkien is not the big concern. I don't want to get warned again, but those same people seemed just excited to see Tom, not bothered by the major contradiction of the word of the author and the most important thing about the character (the mystery of his nature)
Yeah, but frankly, I always considered Tom Bombadil a god, something as an aspect of Ilúvatar himself on at least Valar level, so I do not quite mind.
*SNIP* What I have said in other threads applies to all threads. Stop starting race and gender identity arguments. These representations are what is being produced, that's all there is to it. We get that some people will not like it, but that's okay. Move on.
Let this great clan rest in peace (2001-2011)
UR Murktide
Pauper
RW Monarch
UW Caw-Gate
UBR Affinity
But, again, face tattoo syndrome. Do something intentionally and evidently controversial, meant to be provocative, but if anyone notices or mentions it, they are bigots, r-ists, etc. It's foolproof marketing.
Since this seems to be a recurring specific point you have, and I seem to have no luck with Googling this, where does Tolkien discuss the Dúnedain or whomever it is you're referring to as "a blessed and chosen people meant to incarnate the virtues of Northern Europe that Tolkien himself said tried to rescue after being corrupted by Nazism." Like, I can't find him talking about any specific group in the books like that.
I still don't get why this is so offensive to y'all. Is skin color deeply important to the Lord of the Rings series? Is it the sort of thing that not directly adapting fundamentally alters the very nature of the story being told? Based on some of his other writings, I think y'all are getting more upset about this than Tolkien would.
I would had said that they preferred to use "God" for gameplay and mechanical reasons (same as preferring Halfling over Hobbit) because God tribal it's an actual thing in EDH, but then again I remembered how in Warhammer 40k they used Nekron and C'ton instead of Zombies and Horror/Demon, so as usual I hate WotC for the inconsistency.
I got a no politics warning so I'll just try to answer this particular address to my post. From his letter #45:
How does this apply to Aragorn? Well, he clearly embodied Tolkien's ideas expressed in this extract, an ideal ruler, a leader of men par excellence, the true king who was to bring about an era of reconciliation betweent the human and the divine. Basically the "king" aspect or avatar of that noble northern spirit (much like Gandalf was the angelic/divine and Frodo the everyman). Now it's true that Tolkien was not a "nordicist" and much less a supremacist of any kind, as much as some people to this day still try to make the public believe (with good success; see what his own British government had to say about his works a few days ago). Regardless of that, Black Aragorn, black Galadriel, mixed race Éowyn, etc, just doesn't feel like Tolkien. It's just a deviation from what Tolkien tried to portray. It's purposely changing part of what the book was talking about, and for no other reason than marketing (how many black employees and artists does Wizards actually give work to again?). Obviously many of its themes and ideas are not linked to any specific real-world group of people and can be appreciated by anyone (and I hope they are for centuries to come!), but the visual appearance of the characters is what gave the story its cultural origin/flavor. Heck, Wizards are experts at this: we have a Greek plane, an East Asian plane, a pre-Columbian/American conquest plane, various other European themed planes, Indian, ancient Egyptian, etc, and for the most part the people inhabiting those planes, as well as the cultural aesthetic, artistic designs, etc, look like they come from the places and periods they are based on. And guess what, that is cool. It gives each world a unique feel. Well, Middle Earth is the OG of precisely that. Every Magic plane is essentially a smaller excercise of what Tolkien was among the first to do.
Now if you don't mind the swaps, that's great, more power to you, clearly Wizards doesn't either. But there's a lot of people who enjoy Middle Earth as a world inspired by a certain cultural identity and aesthetic even if they don't belong to it (I'm latino), and it sucks to be instantly treated as a bigot (not by you, speaking in general) if you don't like it when they change said flavor.
Which reminds me of the misheard lyrics of David Bowie's "Suffragette City"...
No, the box toppers have the commander deck expansion symbol and are batched with that set for legality purposes.
Additionally, and I apologize for not making this clearer, what I wanted to see was a quote from Tolkien specifically about how the Dúnedain are this representation you keep speaking of. What you have presented is certainly an interpretation, and not even necessarily a bad one, but the way you spoke about it seemed to imply this was something that Tolkien himself expressed. Because as we both know, the man sincerely disliked allegory.
I just feel that people are getting much more caught up in the skin color of these characters as though that's the parts of the world that Tolkien cared deeply about. It's odd to me that people keep forgetting that Middle Earth was based on the entirety of Europe, and seem to forget that Europe is not, nor has ever been, a purely white continent. It's easy enough to say "I hope you see yourself in this world" and seemingly much harder to actually let people with other skin colors live in it.
Before this discussion, it never even crossed my mind that I would ever need to see latinos in Innistrad in order to feel immersed in Innistrad. Same with Ravnica, Kamigawa, etc. Lorwyn is my favorite plane and there's not even any humans there. Similarly, my heart has lain in Middle Earth my whole life and there's absolutely nothing in there that I could even apply or associate with America, North or South. The fact that apparently more and more people need to see their own ethnicity and culture populating literary and artistic works in order for them to feel like they can immerse themselves in them is to me actually a symptom of a large cultural problem.
Okay. Now I'll stop.
I'm always curious about how they do interpret the colour by for these Universe Beyond products. Like what about the Fellowship is meant to be Abzan over say Bant, same for Rohan being Jeskai, when Naya is probably a better fit.