Lots of new toys, Phyrexian and otherwise, to play with, and we aren’t seeing anything that’s currently threatening our goals for the Commander experience.
Some folks have been asking about the number of poison counters in the wake of Phyrexia: All Will Be One. We’ll obviously keep an eye out, but at the moment we don’t see a need to raise it; the mechanic has not historically been all that strong due to the need to go it alone in killing people. Once everyone has had a chance to play with the new cards and mechanics and the immediate enthusiasm for the current set has faded a bit, we’ll see if action is needed.
While Sheldon’s article may have raised some eyebrows about Elesh Norn, Mother of Machines, the RC has had no discussions about banning it. Some of us had concerns about the design: stapling a casual-popular mechanic onto a casual-dangerous mechanic comes with some risks that are unrelated to power level, but there’s absolutely no way that would lead to a zero-day ban, and we doubt any action will be needed in the future.
We’ve publicly had our eye on Dockside Extortionist for a while now, and have ultimately concluded that, unless there’s a sudden surge into more casual spaces – where it hasn’t really thrived due to the lower density of cheap, fast mana – we don’t anticipate taking action on it. It’s a ridiculously powerful card, but scales with the rest of the table, and at the point it becomes broken, plenty of other broken stuff is already happening.
We’ll be back with our next update on April 10th, with March of the Machine. Until then, come hang out with all the great people in the MTGCommander.net discord to talk about the format!
short version is this for each
We will watch how much faster poison wins but it’s still gonna be 10 for now.
dockside extortionist is never getting banned unless he’s causing havoc on casual games (only seen in Cedh tables mostly) so he basically in the same boat as cyclonic rift.
Give ownership of that committee to millennials that played under the 2008 - 2014 MTG era.
What a joke. These dudes don’t know how to evaluate formats or cards.
the ban list for commander should be at least 70% bigger.
Oh yeah, because what casual players love is having to stsy MORE involved and aware and have to see if groups will let them play a card.
They were very clear from the start, if they ever approach 100 banned cards, the format will basically be dead, so lowering the acceptable power level is not the goal.
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Project Booster Fun makes it less fun to open a booster.
Give ownership of that committee to millennials that played under the 2008 - 2014 MTG era.
What a joke. These dudes don’t know how to evaluate formats or cards.
the ban list for commander should be at least 70% bigger.
Oh yeah, because what casual players love is having to stsy MORE involved and aware and have to see if groups will let them play a card.
They were very clear from the start, if they ever approach 100 banned cards, the format will basically be dead, so lowering the acceptable power level is not the goal.
they could get irrelevant cards off the list to make it smaller. a few of those is still there. if you exclude illegal cards, dexterity cards etc the list is quite short now. it would not hurt to think about updating it to match format philosophy statement.
also dockside is not showing up in casual games not because its not broken but due to price. same as crypt etc.
There is no way they "actually" talk to each other.
They just do jack nothing.
Sure mate
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How i feel about competitive players and casual players in EDH: The competitive are german tourists, the casual are italian tourists, both in a italian beach. The italians asking themselves "why are the germans here?" make a legitimate question, the answer is because the beach is beautiful, no matter the country you came from. The italians wanting to ban the germans are dumb, because if the germans pay for their stay and follow the rules like everyone else, they have the right to be in the beach. Hovewer, if the germans started to ask themselves "why are the italians here?"... they would be dumb as hell.
Why does it have to be 100? How an arbitrary number can be a constant when its value is not correlative with the same card pool that was existing in 2011?
Commander has been a mild vintage with non creative monotonous card piles with non measurable subcategories between casual and cEDH (which really stands for COMBO-EDH).
the same way commander was created, there can be another structured group of people that can come up with something more serious that allows casual players to not left behind and also make competitive players rely on actual skill.
Why does it have to be 100? How an arbitrary number can be a constant when its value is not correlative with the same card pool that was existing in 2011?
Commander has been a mild vintage with non creative monotonous card piles with non measurable subcategories between casual and cEDH (which really stands for COMBO-EDH).
the same way commander was created, there can be another structured group of people that can come up with something more serious that allows casual players to not left behind and also make competitive players rely on actual skill.
In Xanadu did Kubla Khan
A stately pleasure-dome decree:
Where Alph, the sacred river, ran
Through caverns measureless to man
Down to a sunless sea.
- Coleridge
"Nothing beside remains. Round the decay
Of that colossal Wreck, boundless and bare
The lone and level sands stretch far away.”
- Shelley
Well I just did prerelease and yea I can determine
We don't need to change it. this all comes down to proliferate effects rather than toxic # and “each opponent gets a poison counter”.
I can confirm. I was rarely able to connect with a toxic creature. Sometimes when I could risk the backlash or to lose some creatures. I was playing Black/Blue, tho. I think the Green/Black combination (or something with Green) has more options here. Some evasive creatures are nice but even they didn't had a huge window to attack without risks. Chaining Prologue to Phyresis and Infectious Inquiry was the most effective way somehow. With some Vraska's Fall, Anoint with Affliction and Bring the Ending to get some time for the other proliferate cards. Best creatures with toxic were Voidwing Hybrid and Sheoldred's Headcleaver for me. Best Proliferate cards in my pool were Blightbelly Rat and Gulping Scraptrap which worked great with Geth, Thane of Contracts.
Let's see how this works out for commander. In my opinion there could be a problem when 2 or 3 player are playing with an infection themed deck. Maybe poison counter need to be tracked separately for each player.
Why does it have to be 100? How an arbitrary number can be a constant when its value is not correlative with the same card pool that was existing in 2011?
Commander has been a mild vintage with non creative monotonous card piles with non measurable subcategories between casual and cEDH (which really stands for COMBO-EDH).
the same way commander was created, there can be another structured group of people that can come up with something more serious that allows casual players to not left behind and also make competitive players rely on actual skill.
It's called Canadian Highlander
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Latest proof this forum is a trashfire:
Your authoritarianism will be the reason the company suffers another 60M in losses.
Commander has been a mild vintage with non creative monotonous card piles with non measurable subcategories between casual and cEDH (which really stands for COMBO-EDH).
Yeah i'm pretty sure the format designed to play elder dragons was always intended to be mild vintage
the same way commander was created, there can be another structured group of people that can come up with something more serious that allows casual players to not left behind and also make competitive players rely on actual skill.
You are free to do it
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How i feel about competitive players and casual players in EDH: The competitive are german tourists, the casual are italian tourists, both in a italian beach. The italians asking themselves "why are the germans here?" make a legitimate question, the answer is because the beach is beautiful, no matter the country you came from. The italians wanting to ban the germans are dumb, because if the germans pay for their stay and follow the rules like everyone else, they have the right to be in the beach. Hovewer, if the germans started to ask themselves "why are the italians here?"... they would be dumb as hell.
Not trying to be short or curt but do people really care what this committee says? I mean its a casual format and the golden rule 0 exists. Is this just for CeDH and LGS? Even LGS (IF you can even find one in your area) who cares but the group playing? They are so wildly inconsistent why listen at all. Eminence and Thoracle are ok but a Chaos Orb is not? It would be awesome to see someone flip an Orb if they had one (Plus no real rule on where we place our permanents so it'll probably be a 1 for 1 removal, oh no)Upheaval is banned but Cataclysm is not? I guess I just don't get what weight people give this so called committee when they play that can't be fleshed out the old fashioned way (No, nobody wants to play with you if you do that, Or , we all kill this person for trying it)
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Resigned up after getting lost in the Twitch/MTGS whatever crossover
Been on this forum for 10++ years
Playing since '94
I really wonder where they collect their data about things like Dockside. Do they meander around expensive convention tables and survey the games they see, disregarding anything faster than they expect as CEDH?
The recent incompetence of the EDH Rules Committee with their handling of the EDH / Commander format as of late already has Local Game Store (LGS) owners take matters into their own hands despite creating an atmosphere of class warfare dictating what can and can't be played in the format. Paper Magic itself has literally gotten to a point now where the players don't want to have anything to do with Wizards of the Coast / Hasbro in terms of keeping the game in balance. It's gotten to a point now where the EDH Rules Committee is REALLY no better than the company that provides the actual products for them in EDH / Commander. What If Wizards of the Coast / Hasbro are LITERALLY paying the EDH Rules Committee not to ban anything in EDH / Commander? I highly doubt that's the case considering that the EDH Rules Committee has more knowledge about Magic than the corporate suits at Hasbro.
What baffles me the most is why Wizards of the Coast / Hasbro aren't designing Magic cards that trigger off of another player searching their library and / or drawing cards. Someone at the table combos off you just get triggered abilities to go off in the hopes of preventing the player whose trying to win the game through combo without being completely tapped out on mana to rely on that free counterspell or Deflecting Swat. What's so hard about that? If not printing them in Standard legal sets then put them in Commander Pre-Cons or release another Commander Legends that didn't do as poorly as Baldur's Gate. If they design more cards that punish players in EDH / Commander from comboing off early to mid game then there wouldn't be a need to ban tutors, overpowered combo pieces, or one-sided board wipes like Cyclonic Rift. Local Game Stores (LGSs) wouldn't need to take matters into their own hands instead of an incompetent Rules Committee.
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America Bless Christ Jesus
"Cancel Culture is the real reason why everyone's not allowed to have nice things anymore." - Anonymous
"For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his own soul?" - Mark 8:36
"Most men and women will grow up to love their servitude and will never dream of revolution." - Aldous Huxley, Brave New World
"Every life decision is always a risk / reward proposition." - Sanjay Gupta
I like Cyclonic Rift. I mean, the game has to end at some point right? Playing a big card and going for the kill. Isn't that what it's all about really? You have more time in Commander to play bigger cards like that.
I like Cyclonic Rift. I mean, the game has to end at some point right? Playing a big card and going for the kill. Isn't that what it's all about really? You have more time in Commander to play bigger cards like that.
Cyclonic rift is a no skill card that gives blue one of the best mass removal in the format. Compare to ruinous ultimatum for a balanced version of the effect.
"the game has to end" isn't an excuse to print bull***** card. Otherwise they should just print a sorcer that for 15 wins you the game.
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How i feel about competitive players and casual players in EDH: The competitive are german tourists, the casual are italian tourists, both in a italian beach. The italians asking themselves "why are the germans here?" make a legitimate question, the answer is because the beach is beautiful, no matter the country you came from. The italians wanting to ban the germans are dumb, because if the germans pay for their stay and follow the rules like everyone else, they have the right to be in the beach. Hovewer, if the germans started to ask themselves "why are the italians here?"... they would be dumb as hell.
Commander has been a mild vintage with non creative monotonous card piles with non measurable subcategories between casual and cEDH (which really stands for COMBO-EDH).
Yeah i'm pretty sure the format designed to play elder dragons was always intended to be mild vintage
the same way commander was created, there can be another structured group of people that can come up with something more serious that allows casual players to not left behind and also make competitive players rely on actual skill.
You are free to do it
People that say “well then go somewhere else instead” are the ones that reaffirm the state of the game is basically hopeless.
Honestly people should propose lists similar to the French
That's what people do all the time. They make new EDH variants. So we have not only french, but also leviathan and centurion variant. Then they made tiny leaders and oathbreakers. And since rule zero and social phylosophy are a thing, for multiplayer playgroups self-regulate what's allowed and what's not in their personal playgroups (with a whole list of "Power Levels" meters and/or what archetypes are allowed and what not etc.) and then there's CEDH that just accept the totality of all magic cards officially legal in the format as it is. Everybody have their own personal vision and solution on how to fix the format because everybody have a different idea of what should be fixed in this format. And it's working. So what are you complaining exactly? Pursue the vision of EDH you want within your playgroup with a new awareness that only because you think a change should be good for the format doesn't mean everybody would like and agree with you on said change.
People that say “well then go somewhere else instead” are the ones that reaffirm the state of the game is basically hopeless.
If you went to the magic community before 2000s and said "i don't want to play force of will, i want to play elder dragons" the answer was "well then go somewhere else".
RC made that somewhere else reality.
Why whiny players here can't do the same? I wonder...
I wouldn’t be surprised they keep the committee quiet to keep the sales of the BS cards.
Conspiracy theory, while the simple truth is that you can't simply just ban everything that can be broke.
Wotc willingly print cards that break EDH, they do so even when they involve the RC and RC ask them to not do so. But in the end it's always RC's fault right?
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How i feel about competitive players and casual players in EDH: The competitive are german tourists, the casual are italian tourists, both in a italian beach. The italians asking themselves "why are the germans here?" make a legitimate question, the answer is because the beach is beautiful, no matter the country you came from. The italians wanting to ban the germans are dumb, because if the germans pay for their stay and follow the rules like everyone else, they have the right to be in the beach. Hovewer, if the germans started to ask themselves "why are the italians here?"... they would be dumb as hell.
Why does Wizards even care about the rules committee? I mean it's their game. Isn't the rules committee completely separate from Wizards?
Yes, Magic belongs to WOTC, and yes, the Rules Committee is separate from them. So why do they/should they care about the RC?
- The RC created and nurtured the most popular format in the game. True, it gained exposure when WOTC started producing product directly for it, but EDH was growing steadily long before it became Commander, and it has outperformed every format entirely under the control of WOTC since.
- The RC has maintained a fairly stable format that has avoided many of the pitfalls and dumpster fires of WOTC-run formats. I mean, how does the company who literally designs and prints cards for Standard keep screwing up Standard so bad, with record numbers of cards being banned and errataed?
- Taking over from the RC could create a rift among their customers. While a loud minority continue to hate on every move by the RC, the vast majority are happy enough with the format as is (hence it's popularity). Does WOTC really want to drive a wedge in that and risk doing to the Commander cash cow what they've done to D&D? (OK, maybe they are that dumb. Time will tell if they've learned anything from that fiasco.)
Let me reverse your question - why should you or WOTC not care about the RC? Do you really think they would run Commander even as well, let alone better, than the RC has?
short version is this for each
Next one will be April 10th
What a joke. These dudes don’t know how to evaluate formats or cards.
the ban list for commander should be at least 70% bigger.
Oh yeah, because what casual players love is having to stsy MORE involved and aware and have to see if groups will let them play a card.
They were very clear from the start, if they ever approach 100 banned cards, the format will basically be dead, so lowering the acceptable power level is not the goal.
also dockside is not showing up in casual games not because its not broken but due to price. same as crypt etc.
They just do jack nothing.
WUBRG#BlackLotusMatterWUBRG
👮👮👮 #BlueLivesMatter 👮👮👮
Sure mate
Commander has been a mild vintage with non creative monotonous card piles with non measurable subcategories between casual and cEDH (which really stands for COMBO-EDH).
the same way commander was created, there can be another structured group of people that can come up with something more serious that allows casual players to not left behind and also make competitive players rely on actual skill.
In Xanadu did Kubla Khan
A stately pleasure-dome decree:
Where Alph, the sacred river, ran
Through caverns measureless to man
Down to a sunless sea.
- Coleridge
"Nothing beside remains. Round the decay
Of that colossal Wreck, boundless and bare
The lone and level sands stretch far away.”
- Shelley
We don't need to change it. this all comes down to proliferate effects rather than toxic # and “each opponent gets a poison counter”.
I can confirm. I was rarely able to connect with a toxic creature. Sometimes when I could risk the backlash or to lose some creatures. I was playing Black/Blue, tho. I think the Green/Black combination (or something with Green) has more options here. Some evasive creatures are nice but even they didn't had a huge window to attack without risks. Chaining Prologue to Phyresis and Infectious Inquiry was the most effective way somehow. With some Vraska's Fall, Anoint with Affliction and Bring the Ending to get some time for the other proliferate cards. Best creatures with toxic were Voidwing Hybrid and Sheoldred's Headcleaver for me. Best Proliferate cards in my pool were Blightbelly Rat and Gulping Scraptrap which worked great with Geth, Thane of Contracts.
Let's see how this works out for commander. In my opinion there could be a problem when 2 or 3 player are playing with an infection themed deck. Maybe poison counter need to be tracked separately for each player.
It's called Canadian Highlander
Yeah i'm pretty sure the format designed to play elder dragons was always intended to be mild vintage
You are free to do it
Been on this forum for 10++ years
Playing since '94
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Kenessos, Priest of Thassa (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||
What baffles me the most is why Wizards of the Coast / Hasbro aren't designing Magic cards that trigger off of another player searching their library and / or drawing cards. Someone at the table combos off you just get triggered abilities to go off in the hopes of preventing the player whose trying to win the game through combo without being completely tapped out on mana to rely on that free counterspell or Deflecting Swat. What's so hard about that? If not printing them in Standard legal sets then put them in Commander Pre-Cons or release another Commander Legends that didn't do as poorly as Baldur's Gate. If they design more cards that punish players in EDH / Commander from comboing off early to mid game then there wouldn't be a need to ban tutors, overpowered combo pieces, or one-sided board wipes like Cyclonic Rift. Local Game Stores (LGSs) wouldn't need to take matters into their own hands instead of an incompetent Rules Committee.
"Cancel Culture is the real reason why everyone's not allowed to have nice things anymore." - Anonymous
"For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his own soul?" - Mark 8:36
"Most men and women will grow up to love their servitude and will never dream of revolution." - Aldous Huxley, Brave New World
"Every life decision is always a risk / reward proposition." - Sanjay Gupta
Cyclonic rift is a no skill card that gives blue one of the best mass removal in the format. Compare to ruinous ultimatum for a balanced version of the effect.
"the game has to end" isn't an excuse to print bull***** card. Otherwise they should just print a sorcer that for 15 wins you the game.
People that say “well then go somewhere else instead” are the ones that reaffirm the state of the game is basically hopeless.
Honestly people should propose lists similar to the French one adding another batch of those annoying newer cash grabbing cards.
The game is already over monetized and they’re not going back. The greed spread into every single corner of the game since 2019.
That's what people do all the time. They make new EDH variants. So we have not only french, but also leviathan and centurion variant. Then they made tiny leaders and oathbreakers. And since rule zero and social phylosophy are a thing, for multiplayer playgroups self-regulate what's allowed and what's not in their personal playgroups (with a whole list of "Power Levels" meters and/or what archetypes are allowed and what not etc.) and then there's CEDH that just accept the totality of all magic cards officially legal in the format as it is. Everybody have their own personal vision and solution on how to fix the format because everybody have a different idea of what should be fixed in this format. And it's working. So what are you complaining exactly? Pursue the vision of EDH you want within your playgroup with a new awareness that only because you think a change should be good for the format doesn't mean everybody would like and agree with you on said change.
If you went to the magic community before 2000s and said "i don't want to play force of will, i want to play elder dragons" the answer was "well then go somewhere else".
RC made that somewhere else reality.
Why whiny players here can't do the same? I wonder...
Conspiracy theory, while the simple truth is that you can't simply just ban everything that can be broke.
Wotc willingly print cards that break EDH, they do so even when they involve the RC and RC ask them to not do so. But in the end it's always RC's fault right?
- The RC created and nurtured the most popular format in the game. True, it gained exposure when WOTC started producing product directly for it, but EDH was growing steadily long before it became Commander, and it has outperformed every format entirely under the control of WOTC since.
- The RC has maintained a fairly stable format that has avoided many of the pitfalls and dumpster fires of WOTC-run formats. I mean, how does the company who literally designs and prints cards for Standard keep screwing up Standard so bad, with record numbers of cards being banned and errataed?
- Taking over from the RC could create a rift among their customers. While a loud minority continue to hate on every move by the RC, the vast majority are happy enough with the format as is (hence it's popularity). Does WOTC really want to drive a wedge in that and risk doing to the Commander cash cow what they've done to D&D? (OK, maybe they are that dumb. Time will tell if they've learned anything from that fiasco.)
Let me reverse your question - why should you or WOTC not care about the RC? Do you really think they would run Commander even as well, let alone better, than the RC has?
2022 Average Peasant Cube
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