is Tribal no longer a card type? are we sure “Battle” isn’t a mistranslation? i know it’s unlikely because idk how “batalla” could possibly translate to “tribal”, but it seems conspicuous to me.
edit: since Battle is confirmed, just ignore this comment. i feel like i kinda derailed the discussion with the whole Tribal thing (it is a card type, not a supertype btw).
She is a big 7/7 with vigilance, life link flier which is nice. With that mana cost you most likely want to cheat her out. Her effects are a little untribal for phyrexian. No proliferate, toxic, corruption, counter manipulation, mite support... She works greate with Elesh Norn I guess.
is Tribal no longer a card type? are we sure “Battle” isn’t a mistranslation? i know it’s unlikely because idk how “batalla” could possibly translate to “tribal”, but it seems conspicuous to me.
Other Spanish-language Tribals use "tribal", so this isn't a mistranslation. Tribal is still a card type (and will have to remain so unless they find another way to give creature types to noncreature cards, if they even want to do that anymore), but not one they're currently supporting (apart from Altar of the Goyf, but Modern Horizon sets are weird that waty) so they probably feel they can leave it out of reminder text. Text that says "these are some card types", not "these are all card types", by the way. Futureproofing but not pastproofing, apparently.
Thou shalt not have others of the same Legendary before me Thou shalt not frame images with the modern card face Thou shalt not change rules in vain Remember the Reserved List to keep it holy Honor thy Slivers and the symmetry of their abilities Thou shalt not kill mana burn Thou shalt not sacrifice depth for accessibility Thou shalt not steal combat damage from the stack Thou shalt tell a story through thy cards All must be one
Commanderwise, this is a disappointing design beyond any belief. No red in mana cost (I was hoping for a WUBRG ability, perhaps in phyrexian mana related to do phyrexian things), same identical keyword soup of last Atraxa (fine but still lazy), uninspired card draw mechanic (we already saw this kind of ETB effects on the last Niv-Mizzet). At this point I will just use her original card for a truly phyrexian strategy, this is so generic, boring and give very little ideas on original deckbuilding.
Tribal was just a supertype, like Basic, World or Legendary...
it doesn't make any sense that Tarmogoyf actually mentioned it.
Wrong:
Quote from Magic Comprehensive Rules »
300.1. The card types are artifact, conspiracy, creature, dungeon, enchantment, instant, land, phenomenon, plane, planeswalker, scheme, sorcery, tribal, and vanguard.
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Thou shalt not have others of the same Legendary before me Thou shalt not frame images with the modern card face Thou shalt not change rules in vain Remember the Reserved List to keep it holy Honor thy Slivers and the symmetry of their abilities Thou shalt not kill mana burn Thou shalt not sacrifice depth for accessibility Thou shalt not steal combat damage from the stack Thou shalt tell a story through thy cards All must be one
Tribal was just a supertype, like Basic, World or Legendary...
it doesn't make any sense that Tarmogoyf actually mentioned it.
Wrong:
Quote from Magic Comprehensive Rules »
300.1. The card types are artifact, conspiracy, creature, dungeon, enchantment, instant, land, phenomenon, plane, planeswalker, scheme, sorcery, tribal, and vanguard.
well you reveals the answer right there left out because they aren't using it anymore
Vanguard ain’t being made no more either and so probably only putting the reminder text of the ones they print more often and also probably couldn't fit “tribal”
well you reveals the answer right there left out because they aren't using it anymore
Because vanguard ain’t on her either.
Nor is conspiracy, dungeon, phenomenon, plane, or scheme. Not that you could ever find any of those in a library in the first place, unlike Tribals.
I believe MaRo said something like "Not confusing new players is more important to us than giving a complete list." Agree or not, that's their reason.
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Thou shalt not have others of the same Legendary before me Thou shalt not frame images with the modern card face Thou shalt not change rules in vain Remember the Reserved List to keep it holy Honor thy Slivers and the symmetry of their abilities Thou shalt not kill mana burn Thou shalt not sacrifice depth for accessibility Thou shalt not steal combat damage from the stack Thou shalt tell a story through thy cards All must be one
Tribal was just a supertype, like Basic, World or Legendary...
it doesn't make any sense that Tarmogoyf actually mentioned it.
Wrong:
Quote from Magic Comprehensive Rules »
300.1. The card types are artifact, conspiracy, creature, dungeon, enchantment, instant, land, phenomenon, plane, planeswalker, scheme, sorcery, tribal, and vanguard.
yeah, I know that it's written like that in the rules.
but there's absolutely NOTHING unique about the playstyle of Tribal cards.... a Tribal enchantment is just a enchantment, a tribal sorcery is just a sorcery and so on.
it makes no sense that it's a card type instead of a supertype, because it DOESN'T EXIST without an associated card type.
if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, swins like a duck and quacks like a duck, then it's probably a duck.
Tribal is by every single argument based on logic a supertype... it's a card type just because a drunken game designer wanted to make people confused by Tarmogoyf's reminder text in future sight.
if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, swins like a duck and quacks like a duck, then it's probably a duck.
Tribal is by every single argument based on logic a supertype... it's a card type just because a drunken game designer wanted to make people confused by Tarmogoyf's reminder text in future sight.
Tribal has associated subtypes. Which of the other ducks, I mean supertypes, has subtypes?
Since the whole purpose of tribal was to carry subtypes it is the most straightforward thing to group tribal with the other card types.
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Planar Chaos was not a mistake neither was it random. You might want to look at it again.
[thread=239793][Game] Level Up - Creature[/thread]
if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, swins like a duck and quacks like a duck, then it's probably a duck.
Tribal is by every single argument based on logic a supertype... it's a card type just because a drunken game designer wanted to make people confused by Tarmogoyf's reminder text in future sight.
Tribal has associated subtypes. Which of the other ducks, I mean supertypes, has subtypes?
Since the whole purpose of tribal was to carry subtypes it is the most straightforward thing to group tribal with the other card types.
well, are there any supertypes other than "Legendary" that makes you sacrifice one of the copies when you control 2 permanents with the same name?
are there any supertypes that allow you to play as many copies of the card as you want other than Basic?
all supertypes have some rules associated, for Tribal is "this card has creature types even though it's not a creature" and that's it.
all other card types can exist by themselves....
all other supertypes and types must be associated to card types so they can work properly.
there's no logic reason to make Tribal a card type instead of a supertype... but it's written as a card type in the rulebook, so, I guess they win the argument by default as they are the people that write the rulebook.... so, that's fine, really.
Tribal is unfortunate in that it is a type that only works as a descriptor, so it looks like a supertype when it isn't. If there were purely Tribal cards, it would be easier to grok, like how we know the Artifact in Artifact Creature isn't a supertype, but just two types slapped together.
I do feel like the rules could have been better changed by just letting non-creatures have subtypes, like they did with instant and sorceries with Arcane, but that likely would have resulted in more pushback on "Why aren't all spells given an associated subtype."
Tribal is unfortunate in that it is a type that only works as a descriptor, so it looks like a supertype when it isn't. If there were purely Tribal cards, it would be easier to grok, like how we know the Artifact in Artifact Creature isn't a supertype, but just two types slapped together.
I do feel like the rules could have been better changed by just letting non-creatures have subtypes, like they did with instant and sorceries with Arcane, but that likely would have resulted in more pushback on "Why aren't all spells given an associated subtype."
The issue wasn’t that non-creatures couldn’t have subtypes, but rather that each subtype is specific to one card type (or to instants and sorceries as though they were a type). For whatever reason, the rules manager at the time decided that a tribal had to be type that uses the creature type list, likely because effects that change other types would interact weirdly if it were a super type.
Tribal was introduced so that those who wanted to take advantage of tribal effects without it being strictly on creatures could get an expanded bonus of casting said spells.
If Batalla translates to battle for real and is a real indication of a new card type, I wonder what that would entail, and if it's the big change to MTG that MaRo hinted in his very short response to a Blogatog post.
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'buster
HR Analyst. Gamer. Activist | Fearless, and forthright | Aggro-control is a mindset. Elspeth and Jhoira rock my world.
Tribal was introduced so that those who wanted to take advantage of tribal effects without it being strictly on creatures could get an expanded bonus of casting said spells.
If Batalla translates to battle for real and is a real indication of a new card type, I wonder what that would entail, and if it's the big change to MTG that MaRo hinted in his very short response to a Blogatog post.
well, that's absolutely what Batalla translates for.
a new card type is coming let's hope it's a good one like planeswalker was and not a dud like Tribal.
well, are there any supertypes other than "Legendary" that makes you sacrifice one of the copies when you control 2 permanents with the same name?
are there any supertypes that allow you to play as many copies of the card as you want other than Basic?
Does world count? Anyway, the point stands that subtypes are associated with card types, not with supertypes. So by moving tribal from card type to supertype you are just replacing one potential exception ("it's the only card type that does not appear on a type line by itself") with another exception ("it's the only supertype associated with subtypes").
all supertypes have some rules associated, for Tribal is "this card has creature types even though it's not a creature" and that's it.
I don't know whether that's news to you or not, but all card types have some rules associated.
Actually, if you get reaaaally nit-picky, you ould argue that snow is really a do-nothing supertype that doesn't do anything by itself. Legendary, ongoing and world interact with state-based actions and basic (and sometmes legendary) matters during deck-building, and then there is the third thing legendary does no one talks about anymore. Snow is only a marker that other cards care about - it's the snow mana symbols that have the rules associated that reference the marker.
Seriously, the rules for snow are so pathetic that they added a sentence to explain what "nonsnow" is or otherwise there would be basically nothing.
there's no logic reason to make Tribal a card type instead of a supertype...
Yes, there is. And I explained it already: Consistency for the subtype rules.
I'm going to argue that the actual error in this respect is actually the name of the card type. The term "tribal" as an adjective sounds like a supertype. You choose another word e. g. "clan" or "kin" and you get a different association.
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Planar Chaos was not a mistake neither was it random. You might want to look at it again.
[thread=239793][Game] Level Up - Creature[/thread]
The new “Battle” Card type might occupy a similar creative space as ‘plane’ or ‘enchant world’ did, but as a permanent it will offer a mini game of sorts between players that rewards an advantage to the winner(s).
in context of the next set:
Battle for Zendikar (land focused)
Battle for Shandalar (dice/coin-flip/something mercurial)
Battle for Tarkir (dragon and/or enemy, three coloured theme)
Battle for Ravnica (bicolour, or simply multicoloured then)
Battle for Eldraine (…struggling here but you get the picture)
There may even be hints at future settings just as we saw in ‘future sight’.
I suspect we’ll thereafter see ‘battles’ with less ‘generic’ titles; and/or of less cosmological proportion and/or consequence in the sets that follow after MoM.
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Wizards. listen. The Vorthos community will await the consequences of the Eldrazi Titans' deaths/sealing. We will keep the watch.
“The wind whispers, ‘come home,’ but I cannot.”
— Teferi
I'm going to wildly guess Battles will be a nonplaneswalker way of creating emblems. I hope the card is also a sign that 205.3 is being gutted. Um, what else? Command zone becoming standard actualized seems inevitable so let's throw that in too.
I like this card alot actually. She's the first natively 4-color creature that costs more than four, which is cool. The same keyword soup as Atraxa 1.0 with increased stats is also cool. Playing into a blink/reanimator theme opposed to tokens interests me (I like to draw cards). I think she's very neat indeed.
i'll eat my shoes if battle isn't "Dungeon, but two players"
Unlikely because "battle" is a card type showing up inside the deck.
Whatver it is though, it has to be dictinct enough so that it couldn't be done as an enchantment. And that already rules out a lot of ideas mentioned here.
First off she’s not phyrexian tribal so that means I’m now 100% sure they are saving the phyrexian tribal legend for “March of the machines”
second she still has the exact same keyword soup as last time but no proliferate this time
third, this time she’s trying to grab as many types as possible from her ETB. So welcome to my Garth one-eye flicker deck
did you see what I increased in size…….that’s it! that is it! that’s the big change we’re getting a new card type!!! Battle!
source: Reddit (Random Emails)
is Tribal no longer a card type? are we sure “Battle” isn’t a mistranslation? i know it’s unlikely because idk how “batalla” could possibly translate to “tribal”, but it seems conspicuous to me.edit: since Battle is confirmed, just ignore this comment. i feel like i kinda derailed the discussion with the whole Tribal thing (it is a card type, not a supertype btw).
Other Spanish-language Tribals use "tribal", so this isn't a mistranslation. Tribal is still a card type (and will have to remain so unless they find another way to give creature types to noncreature cards, if they even want to do that anymore), but not one they're currently supporting (apart from Altar of the Goyf, but Modern Horizon sets are weird that waty) so they probably feel they can leave it out of reminder text. Text that says "these are some card types", not "these are all card types", by the way. Futureproofing but not pastproofing, apparently.
Thou shalt not frame images with the modern card face
Thou shalt not change rules in vain
Remember the Reserved List to keep it holy
Honor thy Slivers and the symmetry of their abilities
Thou shalt not kill mana burn
Thou shalt not sacrifice depth for accessibility
Thou shalt not steal combat damage from the stack
Thou shalt tell a story through thy cards
All must be one
it doesn't make any sense that Tarmogoyf actually mentioned it.
let's just hope we don't get another dud from this "Battle" thing.
Wrong:
Thou shalt not frame images with the modern card face
Thou shalt not change rules in vain
Remember the Reserved List to keep it holy
Honor thy Slivers and the symmetry of their abilities
Thou shalt not kill mana burn
Thou shalt not sacrifice depth for accessibility
Thou shalt not steal combat damage from the stack
Thou shalt tell a story through thy cards
All must be one
well you reveals the answer right there left out because they aren't using it anymore
Vanguard ain’t being made no more either and so probably only putting the reminder text of the ones they print more often and also probably couldn't fit “tribal”
Nor is conspiracy, dungeon, phenomenon, plane, or scheme. Not that you could ever find any of those in a library in the first place, unlike Tribals.
I believe MaRo said something like "Not confusing new players is more important to us than giving a complete list." Agree or not, that's their reason.
Thou shalt not frame images with the modern card face
Thou shalt not change rules in vain
Remember the Reserved List to keep it holy
Honor thy Slivers and the symmetry of their abilities
Thou shalt not kill mana burn
Thou shalt not sacrifice depth for accessibility
Thou shalt not steal combat damage from the stack
Thou shalt tell a story through thy cards
All must be one
but there's absolutely NOTHING unique about the playstyle of Tribal cards.... a Tribal enchantment is just a enchantment, a tribal sorcery is just a sorcery and so on.
it makes no sense that it's a card type instead of a supertype, because it DOESN'T EXIST without an associated card type.
if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, swins like a duck and quacks like a duck, then it's probably a duck.
Tribal is by every single argument based on logic a supertype... it's a card type just because a drunken game designer wanted to make people confused by Tarmogoyf's reminder text in future sight.
Tribal has associated subtypes. Which of the other ducks, I mean supertypes, has subtypes?
Since the whole purpose of tribal was to carry subtypes it is the most straightforward thing to group tribal with the other card types.
Finally a good white villain quote: "So, do I ever re-evaluate my life choices? Never, because I know what I'm doing is a righteous cause."
Factions: Sleeping
Remnants: Valheim
Legendary Journey: Heroes & Planeswalkers
Saga: Shards of Rabiah
Legends: The Elder Dragons
Read up on Red Flags & NWO
well, are there any supertypes other than "Legendary" that makes you sacrifice one of the copies when you control 2 permanents with the same name?
are there any supertypes that allow you to play as many copies of the card as you want other than Basic?
all supertypes have some rules associated, for Tribal is "this card has creature types even though it's not a creature" and that's it.
all other card types can exist by themselves....
all other supertypes and types must be associated to card types so they can work properly.
there's no logic reason to make Tribal a card type instead of a supertype... but it's written as a card type in the rulebook, so, I guess they win the argument by default as they are the people that write the rulebook.... so, that's fine, really.
I do feel like the rules could have been better changed by just letting non-creatures have subtypes, like they did with instant and sorceries with Arcane, but that likely would have resulted in more pushback on "Why aren't all spells given an associated subtype."
The issue wasn’t that non-creatures couldn’t have subtypes, but rather that each subtype is specific to one card type (or to instants and sorceries as though they were a type). For whatever reason, the rules manager at the time decided that a tribal had to be type that uses the creature type list, likely because effects that change other types would interact weirdly if it were a super type.
If Batalla translates to battle for real and is a real indication of a new card type, I wonder what that would entail, and if it's the big change to MTG that MaRo hinted in his very short response to a Blogatog post.
HR Analyst. Gamer. Activist | Fearless, and forthright | Aggro-control is a mindset.
Elspeth and Jhoira rock my world.
well, that's absolutely what Batalla translates for.
a new card type is coming let's hope it's a good one like planeswalker was and not a dud like Tribal.
Does world count? Anyway, the point stands that subtypes are associated with card types, not with supertypes. So by moving tribal from card type to supertype you are just replacing one potential exception ("it's the only card type that does not appear on a type line by itself") with another exception ("it's the only supertype associated with subtypes").
I don't know whether that's news to you or not, but all card types have some rules associated.
Actually, if you get reaaaally nit-picky, you ould argue that snow is really a do-nothing supertype that doesn't do anything by itself. Legendary, ongoing and world interact with state-based actions and basic (and sometmes legendary) matters during deck-building, and then there is the third thing legendary does no one talks about anymore. Snow is only a marker that other cards care about - it's the snow mana symbols that have the rules associated that reference the marker.
Seriously, the rules for snow are so pathetic that they added a sentence to explain what "nonsnow" is or otherwise there would be basically nothing.
Yes, there is. And I explained it already: Consistency for the subtype rules.
I'm going to argue that the actual error in this respect is actually the name of the card type. The term "tribal" as an adjective sounds like a supertype. You choose another word e. g. "clan" or "kin" and you get a different association.
Finally a good white villain quote: "So, do I ever re-evaluate my life choices? Never, because I know what I'm doing is a righteous cause."
Factions: Sleeping
Remnants: Valheim
Legendary Journey: Heroes & Planeswalkers
Saga: Shards of Rabiah
Legends: The Elder Dragons
Read up on Red Flags & NWO
in context of the next set:
Battle for Zendikar (land focused)
Battle for Shandalar (dice/coin-flip/something mercurial)
Battle for Tarkir (dragon and/or enemy, three coloured theme)
Battle for Ravnica (bicolour, or simply multicoloured then)
Battle for Eldraine (…struggling here but you get the picture)
There may even be hints at future settings just as we saw in ‘future sight’.
I suspect we’ll thereafter see ‘battles’ with less ‘generic’ titles; and/or of less cosmological proportion and/or consequence in the sets that follow after MoM.
The Vorthos community will await the consequences of the Eldrazi Titans' deaths/sealing. We will keep the watch.
“The wind whispers, ‘come home,’ but I cannot.”
— Teferi
It makes sense. This guy thinks so:
https://youtu.be/3dzEfR5pLPE
edit: I forgot about skirmish
The Vorthos community will await the consequences of the Eldrazi Titans' deaths/sealing. We will keep the watch.
“The wind whispers, ‘come home,’ but I cannot.”
— Teferi
I like this card alot actually. She's the first natively 4-color creature that costs more than four, which is cool. The same keyword soup as Atraxa 1.0 with increased stats is also cool. Playing into a blink/reanimator theme opposed to tokens interests me (I like to draw cards). I think she's very neat indeed.
That seems like a likely influence, even if the design started with something else.
RUNIN: Norse mythology set (awaiting further playtesting)
FATE of ALARA: Multicolour factions (currently on hiatus)
Contibutor to the Pyrulea community set
I'm here to tell you that all your set mechanics are bad
#Defundthepolice
Unlikely because "battle" is a card type showing up inside the deck.
Whatver it is though, it has to be dictinct enough so that it couldn't be done as an enchantment. And that already rules out a lot of ideas mentioned here.