So we have this giant tree in the center of New Phyrexia, and we need a caretaker for it. Elesh Norn can't do everything herself, you know. How about this elf who speaks to worldsouls?
she looks more horrifying/ugly than her “what if” picture showed (Ps the lukka side story mentions nissa got scratched and that’s how nahiri got compleated so that’s likely what happened here.)
first Of all chandra is gonna have a nervous breakdown in anger when she finds out about nissa and Jace
this is pretty much a "3GGGG Sorcery, creatures you control get +x/+x and trample until end of turn"
What? Did you ever read her +1? This is a free token generator at eldrazi-size level that get even bigger while gaining loyalty at each turn. You do the -7 only if you actually need to win and close the game in that turn, but otherwise the amount of board advantage she create while protecting herself is overwhelming. I'm not sure we're reading the same card. If Titan of Industry makes a token any random board wipe clears the threat, but I don't know how many gods you must pray to be able to remove her and her virtually infinite factory of monsters. (oh and also you can't cast Titan at 5 mana if you need it).
this is pretty much a "3GGGG Sorcery, creatures you control get +x/+x and trample until end of turn"
What? Did you ever read her +1? This is a free token generator at eldrazi-size level that get even bigger while gaining loyalty at each turn. You do the -7 only if you actually need to win and close the game in that turn, but otherwise the amount of board advantage she create while protecting herself is overwhelming. I'm not sure we're reading the same card. If Titan of Industry makes a token any random board wipe clears the threat, but I don't know how many gods you must pray to be able to remove her and her virtually infinite factory of monsters. (oh and also you can't cast Titan at 5 mana if you need it).
if you're playing that walker for anything othet than the -7, you're better of just running Titan of Industry.
sure that +1 can help you stabilize of you somehow get to 7 mana while being behind on the board.... but you don't really play that walker for this, I think.
casting this thing for 5 mana is not really feasible...
it will be pretty much 5 mana and 4 life for a 4/4 and a walker with 4 loyalty.
it's really inneficient at that cost.
well, yes, she's very versatile.
when dropped at 7 in a regular monogreen board, it will more often than not just win the game.
if you're casting her outisde of that situation, it probably means you'll be just trying to somehow estabilize and she'll more often than not just delay the inevitable for a couple turns.
it will be pretty much 5 mana and 4 life for a 4/4 and a walker with 4 loyalty.
it's really inneficient at that cost.
INEFFICENT? Do you have any idea how planeswalkers usually protect themselves? Can you name a single Planeswalker card that makes 4/4 at 5 mana with a positivie loyalty ability? Not to mention again, that those creatures get even more bigger at every turn. Not only this is NOT inefficent, but is the most efficent PW that protect itself with a creature in all magic history for that mana cost.
if you're playing that walker for anything othet than the -7, you're better of just running Titan of Industry.
You dont play Titan at 5 mana and Titan doesnt destroy things or make creatures at every single turn like Nissa but only at ETB. You are hugely understimating the versatility and inevitability and continuous source of card advantage that this PW offer for her cost.
when dropped at 7 in a regular monogreen board, it will more often than not just win the game.
No dude, because even if you cast 1000 creatures in one turn they can easily be wiped out by any mass removal next turn. It's much, much harder to get rid of creatures AND planeswalker using a single card, so you really understimate too much with how many decks would struggle to kill both Nissa and the tokens she makes without them going on severe card disadvantage.
Ruh roh, how will her transformation make Chandra feel?
Nissa and Nahiri made sense to be compleated due to their emotional trauma, creating ease in being influenced as a result.
Also this is the first of the compleated walkers to have two phyrexian mana symbols in their costs versus only one to my understanding.
actually the biggest answer to how i knew nissa would be compleated was right in front of us
i'm pretty sure the phyrexian needed a way to control the raelmbreaker to get to the planes and Nissa can do just that. (basically they wanted her alive and compleated so they have a remote control for the realmbreaker.)
it will be pretty much 5 mana and 4 life for a 4/4 and a walker with 4 loyalty.
it's really inneficient at that cost.
INEFFICENT? Do you have any idea how planeswalkers usually protect themselves? Can you name a single Planeswalker card that makes 4/4 at 5 mana with a positivie loyalty ability? Not to mention again, that those creatures get even more bigger at every turn. Not only this is NOT inefficent, but is the most efficent PW that protect itself with a creature in all magic history for that mana cost.
Still, it's a 5 mana AND 4 life for a 3 loyalty planeswalker, which is pretty much the least loyalty a 5 mana walker ever had.
sure making a 4/4 right away is still fine... I just don't think you'd ever play this walker at 5 mana over Defiler of Vigor in any green deck ever.
I mean, this thing for 5 mana is kinda close to Wrenn and Seven... Wrenn doesn't cost life, makes a far better token, and ends up with 2 less loyalty after the first turn, but the chances of it simply hitting the battlefield and dying on the spot are very similar in this situation.
if you're playing that walker for anything othet than the -7, you're better of just running Titan of Industry.
You dont play Titan at 5 mana and Titan doesnt destroy things or make creatures at every single turn like Nissa but only at ETB. You are hugely understimating the versatility and inevitability and continuous source of card advantage that this PW offer for her cost.
and Titan destroys one thing, makes a dude, does it all immediately. Titan is oftentimes a 3 for 1 out of the box.
It's certainly far more impactful immediately than anything other than play nissa and hit the "I win" button coming from a stacked board.
Specially because that token that Nissa makes only becomes stronger each turn when she's not under pressure.... that token might just become weaker for your second plus if she's damaged somehow.
when dropped at 7 in a regular monogreen board, it will more often than not just win the game.
No dude, because even if you cast 1000 creatures in one turn they can easily be wiped out by any mass removal next turn. It's much, much harder to get rid of creatures AND planeswalker using a single card, so you really understimate too much with how many decks would struggle to kill both Nissa and the tokens she makes without them going on severe card disadvantage.
last time I heard, there was no instant boardwipe in standard right now.... you drop Nissa for 7, ultimate her and attack with like 5 trampling monsters way to large for anyone to block.
IMO, this looks like the best way to use her... as an overcharged Overrun
Walkers like, for example Vivien on the Hunt are simply better to play when you're behind...
I mean, she can bring you back into the game from an empty hand just after a Farewell.... which is something that the new Nissa can't dream of doing.
But then, I was wrong multiple times in my life, this could just be another one, wouldn't be the 100th time I was wrong about a card during spoiler season. I just think that this planeswalker isn't making any waves on Standard.
I will find a use for her in Standard if the price is right.
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STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
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last time I heard, there was no instant boardwipe in standard right now....
Why it need to be instant? I just said that if you make a Titan with 1 or 1000 tokens, unless you got a haste enabler, they will all be wipe out from any sorcery speed board removal. And if you think there are no instant boardwipe in standard, think of how many board wipes in standard that deal planeswalkers and creatures at same time.
Specially because that token that Nissa makes only becomes stronger each turn when she's not under pressure.... that token might just become weaker for your second plus if she's damaged somehow.
Oh wow, so that means an opponent just lost a creature and/or a card just to deal and pass through her first token, while you Nissa is still very likely alive meanwhile. Now you see why I say that opponents can't deal with nissa and her armies without going on card disadvantage, and card disadvantage make game loss on long term?
Walkers like, for example Vivien on the Hunt are simply better to play when you're behind...
I mean, she can bring you back into the game from an empty hand just after a Farewell.... which is something that the new Nissa can't dream of doing.
I literally didnt understood what you just wrote here. How come is Vivien better than Nissa after a farewell? If you want immediate board presence that kick ass the opponent instead of durdling around Nissa is just better.
I just think that this planeswalker isn't making any waves on Standard.
I wasn't talking about only Standard but impact presence in EDH as well. And there the life points loss it's irrelevant.
Walkers like, for example Vivien on the Hunt are simply better to play when you're behind...
I mean, she can bring you back into the game from an empty hand just after a Farewell.... which is something that the new Nissa can't dream of doing.
I literally didnt understood what you just wrote here. How come is Vivien better than Nissa after a farewell? If you want immediate board presence that kick ass the opponent instead of durdling around Nissa is just better.
I just think that this planeswalker isn't making any waves on Standard.
I wasn't talking about only Standard but impact presence in EDH as well. And there the life points loss it's irrelevant.
Vivien can draw 5 cards after a farewell... it's quite often that she draws like 3 in a deck that runs her that should be VERY creature heavy.
if she's already on the battlefield after farewell hits, you activate the +1 and repopulate the board... even if she has to somehow make a token, she can make a 4/4, which is often enough to buy some time after the farewell so in the next turn you just draw your 3, 4 creatures and go from there....
I just can't see how would making 2 vanilla tokens possibly be better than using 2 of Vivien's abilities in the 2 turns following a farewell.
even if those tokens were 1000/1000 it's probably take mais 2 Vivien's +1 activations over them, really.
about EDH.... everything works in EDH given the right playgroup.
and, sure some commanders will love to run her... I still think that the best use is still drop her, -7 and kill everyone with your "too big to block trampling dudes" than doing pretty much anything else she's capable of.
No, the +1 see a bunch of random cards to put in hand, in next turn you cast one or 2 of them (IF opponent don't counter) and in the turn after that MAYBE you gonna have a chance to attack with said cards (if opponent don't remove them). Which is durdling around in my book, since Nissa already kicked the ass twice with the eldrazi vanillas already. talking about putting pressure, eh?
about EDH.... everything works in EDH given the right playgroup.
I'm talking about High Power EDH, around Level 8, not your typical kitchen table casual with precons.
This just in: New planeswalker that produces a 4+/4+ token every turn starting turn 5 is unplayable because *checks notes* it dies to removal.
Not sure if standard really has become this degenerate or people are just as bad at evaluating cards as they always have been lmao.
I do think some people are writing off the 4 life a little too readily, there's a reason Go for the Throat has largely replaced Infernal Grasp, you cannot afford that against RDW or soldiers.
if you're playing that walker for anything other than the -7, you're better of just running Titan of Industry.
Flexibility is real value.
A 4/4 for five mana and the potential to get a 5/5 the next turn is already a good deal, but the flexibility is the point. Titan of Industry has no built-in cost reduction. If you always can wait for seven mana it's better, but we've just gone through a whole set that demonstrated with prototype the value in the option to play a spell a few turns earlier.
We've got charms and modal spells and kicker where individual modes where outclassed by other cards, but the ability to choose makes all the difference. We've had them long enough that we should be aware of the value.
Titan of Industry is 11 power for seven mana, but if you're stuck on six without another card to cheat the cost, it's dead. And I personally consider five mana for 9 power over two turns a decent baseline, considering it's just one of multiple options.
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Planar Chaos was not a mistake neither was it random. You might want to look at it again.
[thread=239793][Game] Level Up - Creature[/thread]
if you're playing that walker for anything other than the -7, you're better of just running Titan of Industry.
Flexibility is real value.
A 4/4 for five mana and the potential to get a 5/5 the next turn is already a good deal, but the flexibility is the point. Titan of Industry has no built-in cost reduction. If you always can wait for seven mana it's better, but we've just gone through a whole set that demonstrated with prototype the value in the option to play a spell a few turns earlier.
We've got charms and modal spells and kicker where individual modes where outclassed by other cards, but the ability to choose makes all the difference. We've had them long enough that we should be aware of the value.
Titan of Industry is 11 power for seven mana, but if you're stuck on six without another card to cheat the cost, it's dead. And I personally consider five mana for 9 power over two turns a decent baseline, considering it's just one of multiple options.
yeah.... if you can manage to hit yourself in the face for 4 without that transforming into too much pressure, get a 4/4 and untap with her alive to get a 5/5 then sure.
if she's hit by a flier or anything, that makes the next token a lot smaller even if she's still alive.
for 5 mana and 4 life she's kinda close to Wrenn and Seven.... but that -1 makes her probably better, though.
at the end of the day, yes she's a powerful card in a vacuum.
but she's fighting with A LOT of Green fatties for space in the decks.
she might just find a home, though.
As I've said before, I don't think she'll be played over Defiler of Vigor or Titan of Industry in current decks.
also, she can't be put into play by Storm the Festival, which is also a problem.
Left unchecked she wins the game.
but hell, it's a CMC7 card, that's the least we expect hahah
I really don't get the Titan of Industry comparison. This in no way occupies that space. It's not a good reanimator target (due to the forest counting interfering with Invoke Justice), it's designed with the flexibility to be played earlier and its big mode wants to use a board presence to end the game immediately, more like a Craterhoof Behemoth. The question isn't "Do you play this over Titan if Industry?" it's "Does the deck that wants this exist?" because you don't pay this over Titan, you play it in a different deck entirely.
I'm mostly just annoyed with her story treatment. One of the founding gatewatch (remember that?) members, fairly beloved, iconic green planeswalker, and she gets phyrexianized offscreen and with no one getting to even react to it.
Card seems pretty strong though. Spitting out increasingly larger beasts every turn is great.
I'm mostly just annoyed with her story treatment. One of the founding gatewatch (remember that?) members, fairly beloved, iconic green planeswalker, and she gets phyrexianized offscreen and with no one getting to even react to it.
Card seems pretty strong though. Spitting out increasingly larger beasts every turn is great.
I don't know... they are throwing away a lot of characters. I am sure some of them will be saved.
I'm mostly just annoyed with her story treatment. One of the founding gatewatch (remember that?) members, fairly beloved, iconic green planeswalker, and she gets phyrexianized offscreen and with no one getting to even react to it.
Card seems pretty strong though. Spitting out increasingly larger beasts every turn is great.
I don't know... they are throwing away a lot of characters. I am sure some of them will be saved.
Sure sure, but still, so many missed story beats here. Unless some of the turned walkers are going to get significant story time in the next set before getting saved.
The thing is, they only have a specific budget for a certain amount of story. They focused of telling the main story and even there the story is jumping around but the story is a lot better than usually. And the story isn't the main focus for a lot of player/costumer out there (I think I am the only one in my playground that even know something about the story). They tried to make books but they were not received well. I assume that it won't get better in the next expansion.
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So we have this giant tree in the center of New Phyrexia, and we need a caretaker for it. Elesh Norn can't do everything herself, you know. How about this elf who speaks to worldsouls?
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first Of all chandra is gonna have a nervous breakdown in anger when she finds out about nissa and Jace
Second of all: this was the one leaked walker card we could see so like last time I said with Vorinclex, monstrous raider/doubling season you hit the ultimate regardless of phyrexian mana or not. But advise you throw in Dryad of the Ilysian Grove or prismatic omen or a mono green deck to be a next to guaranteed Craterhoof behemoth effect
and still, I doubt that this is getting played in any green deck ever while Titan of Industry and Defiler of Vigor are in the same format.
What? Did you ever read her +1? This is a free token generator at eldrazi-size level that get even bigger while gaining loyalty at each turn. You do the -7 only if you actually need to win and close the game in that turn, but otherwise the amount of board advantage she create while protecting herself is overwhelming. I'm not sure we're reading the same card. If Titan of Industry makes a token any random board wipe clears the threat, but I don't know how many gods you must pray to be able to remove her and her virtually infinite factory of monsters. (oh and also you can't cast Titan at 5 mana if you need it).
Nissa and Nahiri made sense to be compleated due to their emotional trauma, creating ease in being influenced as a result.
Also this is the first of the compleated walkers to have two phyrexian mana symbols in their costs versus only one to my understanding.
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if you're playing that walker for anything othet than the -7, you're better of just running Titan of Industry.
sure that +1 can help you stabilize of you somehow get to 7 mana while being behind on the board.... but you don't really play that walker for this, I think.
casting this thing for 5 mana is not really feasible...
it will be pretty much 5 mana and 4 life for a 4/4 and a walker with 4 loyalty.
it's really inneficient at that cost.
well, yes, she's very versatile.
when dropped at 7 in a regular monogreen board, it will more often than not just win the game.
if you're casting her outisde of that situation, it probably means you'll be just trying to somehow estabilize and she'll more often than not just delay the inevitable for a couple turns.
INEFFICENT? Do you have any idea how planeswalkers usually protect themselves? Can you name a single Planeswalker card that makes 4/4 at 5 mana with a positivie loyalty ability? Not to mention again, that those creatures get even more bigger at every turn. Not only this is NOT inefficent, but is the most efficent PW that protect itself with a creature in all magic history for that mana cost.
You dont play Titan at 5 mana and Titan doesnt destroy things or make creatures at every single turn like Nissa but only at ETB. You are hugely understimating the versatility and inevitability and continuous source of card advantage that this PW offer for her cost.
No dude, because even if you cast 1000 creatures in one turn they can easily be wiped out by any mass removal next turn. It's much, much harder to get rid of creatures AND planeswalker using a single card, so you really understimate too much with how many decks would struggle to kill both Nissa and the tokens she makes without them going on severe card disadvantage.
actually the biggest answer to how i knew nissa would be compleated was right in front of us
i'm pretty sure the phyrexian needed a way to control the raelmbreaker to get to the planes and Nissa can do just that. (basically they wanted her alive and compleated so they have a remote control for the realmbreaker.)
Still, it's a 5 mana AND 4 life for a 3 loyalty planeswalker, which is pretty much the least loyalty a 5 mana walker ever had.
sure making a 4/4 right away is still fine... I just don't think you'd ever play this walker at 5 mana over Defiler of Vigor in any green deck ever.
I mean, this thing for 5 mana is kinda close to Wrenn and Seven... Wrenn doesn't cost life, makes a far better token, and ends up with 2 less loyalty after the first turn, but the chances of it simply hitting the battlefield and dying on the spot are very similar in this situation.
Yes, you do.
Right now most decks aren't really hardcasting Titan anyway.
they Invoke Justice it, or Cheat it in Somehow else
and Titan destroys one thing, makes a dude, does it all immediately. Titan is oftentimes a 3 for 1 out of the box.
It's certainly far more impactful immediately than anything other than play nissa and hit the "I win" button coming from a stacked board.
Specially because that token that Nissa makes only becomes stronger each turn when she's not under pressure.... that token might just become weaker for your second plus if she's damaged somehow.
last time I heard, there was no instant boardwipe in standard right now.... you drop Nissa for 7, ultimate her and attack with like 5 trampling monsters way to large for anyone to block.
IMO, this looks like the best way to use her... as an overcharged Overrun
Walkers like, for example Vivien on the Hunt are simply better to play when you're behind...
I mean, she can bring you back into the game from an empty hand just after a Farewell.... which is something that the new Nissa can't dream of doing.
But then, I was wrong multiple times in my life, this could just be another one, wouldn't be the 100th time I was wrong about a card during spoiler season. I just think that this planeswalker isn't making any waves on Standard.
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
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Why it need to be instant? I just said that if you make a Titan with 1 or 1000 tokens, unless you got a haste enabler, they will all be wipe out from any sorcery speed board removal. And if you think there are no instant boardwipe in standard, think of how many board wipes in standard that deal planeswalkers and creatures at same time.
Oh wow, so that means an opponent just lost a creature and/or a card just to deal and pass through her first token, while you Nissa is still very likely alive meanwhile. Now you see why I say that opponents can't deal with nissa and her armies without going on card disadvantage, and card disadvantage make game loss on long term?
I literally didnt understood what you just wrote here. How come is Vivien better than Nissa after a farewell? If you want immediate board presence that kick ass the opponent instead of durdling around Nissa is just better.
I wasn't talking about only Standard but impact presence in EDH as well. And there the life points loss it's irrelevant.
Vivien can draw 5 cards after a farewell... it's quite often that she draws like 3 in a deck that runs her that should be VERY creature heavy.
if she's already on the battlefield after farewell hits, you activate the +1 and repopulate the board... even if she has to somehow make a token, she can make a 4/4, which is often enough to buy some time after the farewell so in the next turn you just draw your 3, 4 creatures and go from there....
I just can't see how would making 2 vanilla tokens possibly be better than using 2 of Vivien's abilities in the 2 turns following a farewell.
even if those tokens were 1000/1000 it's probably take mais 2 Vivien's +1 activations over them, really.
about EDH.... everything works in EDH given the right playgroup.
and, sure some commanders will love to run her... I still think that the best use is still drop her, -7 and kill everyone with your "too big to block trampling dudes" than doing pretty much anything else she's capable of.
Not sure if standard really has become this degenerate or people are just as bad at evaluating cards as they always have been lmao.
No, the +1 see a bunch of random cards to put in hand, in next turn you cast one or 2 of them (IF opponent don't counter) and in the turn after that MAYBE you gonna have a chance to attack with said cards (if opponent don't remove them). Which is durdling around in my book, since Nissa already kicked the ass twice with the eldrazi vanillas already. talking about putting pressure, eh?
I'm talking about High Power EDH, around Level 8, not your typical kitchen table casual with precons.
100% this. For F*cking Real LOL
Elspeth Resplendent sees play in Standard, pretty sure it's the latter.
I do think some people are writing off the 4 life a little too readily, there's a reason Go for the Throat has largely replaced Infernal Grasp, you cannot afford that against RDW or soldiers.
Flexibility is real value.
A 4/4 for five mana and the potential to get a 5/5 the next turn is already a good deal, but the flexibility is the point. Titan of Industry has no built-in cost reduction. If you always can wait for seven mana it's better, but we've just gone through a whole set that demonstrated with prototype the value in the option to play a spell a few turns earlier.
We've got charms and modal spells and kicker where individual modes where outclassed by other cards, but the ability to choose makes all the difference. We've had them long enough that we should be aware of the value.
Titan of Industry is 11 power for seven mana, but if you're stuck on six without another card to cheat the cost, it's dead. And I personally consider five mana for 9 power over two turns a decent baseline, considering it's just one of multiple options.
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yeah.... if you can manage to hit yourself in the face for 4 without that transforming into too much pressure, get a 4/4 and untap with her alive to get a 5/5 then sure.
if she's hit by a flier or anything, that makes the next token a lot smaller even if she's still alive.
for 5 mana and 4 life she's kinda close to Wrenn and Seven.... but that -1 makes her probably better, though.
at the end of the day, yes she's a powerful card in a vacuum.
but she's fighting with A LOT of Green fatties for space in the decks.
she might just find a home, though.
As I've said before, I don't think she'll be played over Defiler of Vigor or Titan of Industry in current decks.
also, she can't be put into play by Storm the Festival, which is also a problem.
Left unchecked she wins the game.
but hell, it's a CMC7 card, that's the least we expect hahah
Card seems pretty strong though. Spitting out increasingly larger beasts every turn is great.
I don't know... they are throwing away a lot of characters. I am sure some of them will be saved.
Sure sure, but still, so many missed story beats here. Unless some of the turned walkers are going to get significant story time in the next set before getting saved.