The second deck for today is the UR Draconic Dissent precon. It's a goad tribal deck, with Dragon tribal and artifact/Treasure subthemes. Leading the annoyance brigade with Firkraag, Cunning Instigator is the drow behind the death arena known as The Black Pits, and his background in artifice. Decklist is here.
2 copies of non-creatures ? It combos with a bunch of stuff, even just generic stuff like Oblivion Ring (first token targets the dragon, the second dragon removed the first, so you end up with the dragon against and a token, repeat as many times as you want).
I'm so tired of goad. I've played again a goad deck many times and it's so very annoying. All sorts groan inducing that makes me wonder why WotC thought this is a mechanic they should push this hard. I'd rather play against land destruction.
Astral Dragon is quite a good card, works well with a lot of strategies.
I think they push it just because it can solve one of the bigger issues in Commander games: Stalling.
Land Destruction can only make the game go longer. Goad may be aggravating, but it gets people pushing towards an end. That's the biggest thing they look for in Commander Mechanics (hence Myriad and Encore and so on)
I think they push it just because it can solve one of the bigger issues in Commander games: Stalling.
Land Destruction can only make the game go longer. Goad may be aggravating, but it gets people pushing towards an end. That's the biggest thing they look for in Commander Mechanics (hence Myriad and Encore and so on)
Yes because we need to encourage more Commander decks that are capable of winning on turn 4 like Kess, Dissident Mage. I'm sorry what?!? I'd still like to play the game after turn 4. Why should I sacrifice my own enjoyment of the game for someone else's If we don't go to game 2 for that matter? It's not like we shell $200+ on these decks for nothing. Then maybe I should've proxied my deck instead to curb Market Inflation? Just WOW... Okay...
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"Restriction breeds creativity." - Sheldon Menery on EDH / Commander in Magic: The Gathering
"Cancel Culture is the real reason why everyone's not allowed to have nice things anymore." - Anonymous
"For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his own soul?" - Mark 8:36
"Most men and women will grow up to love their servitude and will never dream of revolution." - Aldous Huxley, Brave New World
"Every life decision is always a risk / reward proposition." - Sanjay Gupta
I think they push it just because it can solve one of the bigger issues in Commander games: Stalling.
Land Destruction can only make the game go longer. Goad may be aggravating, but it gets people pushing towards an end. That's the biggest thing they look for in Commander Mechanics (hence Myriad and Encore and so on)
You bring up a good point about stalling, but that's kind of what removal is for. I just don't like a portion of my turn controlled. I would disagree about Myriad being a way to push towards the end only because that's what token stategies do.
Yes because we need to encourage more Commander decks that are capable of winning on turn 4 like Kess, Dissident Mage. I'm sorry what?!? I'd still like to play the game after turn 4. Why should I sacrifice my own enjoyment of the game for someone else's If we don't go to game 2 for that matter? It's not like we shell $200+ on these decks for nothing. Then maybe I should've proxied my deck instead to curb Market Inflation? Just WOW... Okay...
Not remotely what I was saying. I'm talking about those moments where everyone has built up a fort and no one feels safe attacking, so the game grinds to a halt, turning into a riveting twenty minutes of "Draw, Go" with a side helping of "Whose turn is it?" That is what I meant by stalling.
You bring up a good point about stalling, but that's kind of what removal is for. I just don't like a portion of my turn controlled. I would disagree about Myriad being a way to push towards the end only because that's what token stategies do.
Sure, spot removal is great for that, and I agree that no one likes their turn being controlled in some capacity, but the key difference between removal and goading is that it makes everyone need to react. If you kill Timmy's big threats and leave his board barren, then Jenny and Spike can choose to not do anything, if they don't want to. If you force Timmy to attack Jenny or Spike, they have to react to that, and decide whether to strike back, or try to aim at you to stop this from happening again, or any number of other reactions. It gets everyone involved in s way that removal does not. As for Myriad, yes it works like Token strategies, but the key difference is that it again demands attacking, and at least attempting to push the end of the game closer.
Goading is way more fun than a boardwipe to clear up a stalemate. It forces action instead of just "everything is dead... now who can rebuild the quickest". People have way more of a laugh if somebody gets goaded while usually a boardwipe will be more like "argh man... now we need to start over" kinda thing.
Stalling/stalemates are the most boring bits of the game for me and I'll usually just start swinging even if it means I'm going to die, just to make something happen and the others to have fun.
I think they push it just because it can solve one of the bigger issues in Commander games: Stalling.
Land Destruction can only make the game go longer. Goad may be aggravating, but it gets people pushing towards an end. That's the biggest thing they look for in Commander Mechanics (hence Myriad and Encore and so on)
Yes because we need to encourage more Commander decks that are capable of winning on turn 4 like Kess, Dissident Mage. I'm sorry what?!? I'd still like to play the game after turn 4. Why should I sacrifice my own enjoyment of the game for someone else's If we don't go to game 2 for that matter? It's not like we shell $200+ on these decks for nothing. Then maybe I should've proxied my deck instead to curb Market Inflation? Just WOW... Okay...
Goad was specifically made a major theme in this set as a response to the biggest complaint from the draft environment of the original Commander Legends: despite Monarch and sweepers all the way down to common, most games still ended up with people growing their board and refusing to attack for the better part of an hour. The longer this goes, the bigger and more complex board states get, and the less incentives there are to do anything. Basically, if Limited board stalls are bad, and Commander board stalls equally worse, combining them leads to gameplay that needlessly stretches on for a painfully long time. Goad is meant to force interaction with combat to end these board stalls, while myriad alleviates the decision paralysis and feelbads of choosing which player to attack (now you just choose which board state would allow the original copy to survive). Since the precons are an extension of set themes, goad gets a precon. This isn't to make games only last until turn 4, this is to make them end within three hours.
People are correct, this is way too much goad, especially that red legend who does it statically. This will lead to less and less creature decks, in the same way that too many grave pact effects do.
I like creatures, please don't make me keep them in hand wizards!
On a side note, since when are elves red? That card is wrong in so many ways...
People have way more of a laugh if somebody gets goaded while usually a boardwipe will be more like "argh man... now we need to start over" kinda thing.
I can't say anyone I know, or myself, feel better with goad. I can't stop a goad, but I can stop a board wipe through protection or even recover from it and end up farther ahead than I was before thanks to it. The only way to come out ahead of a goad is to have bigger creatures.
Sure, spot removal is great for that, and I agree that no one likes their turn being controlled in some capacity, but the key difference between removal and goading is that it makes everyone need to react. If you kill Timmy's big threats and leave his board barren, then Jenny and Spike can choose to not do anything, if they don't want to. If you force Timmy to attack Jenny or Spike, they have to react to that, and decide whether to strike back, or try to aim at you to stop this from happening again, or any number of other reactions. It gets everyone involved in s way that removal does not. As for Myriad, yes it works like Token strategies, but the key difference is that it again demands attacking, and at least attempting to push the end of the game closer.
You forget with so much "all creatures are goaded" effects now it's less "forcing people to attack" and more "the next person in turn order is the most boinked with getting blocked first, the previous person in turn order gets to block while the rest sit there and get slapped around" all the while the one doing the goading sits there free as a bird. I've been goaded five turns in a row and I'd much prefer only playing my commander for five turns straight and watching it be killed over my entire board be goaded. None of it is enjoyable and all you hear is "Sorry, they're making me do it" again and again.
As for Myriad it doesn't really offer anything more than just pure attacking, which happens anyways in a Commander game and just because a creature has it doesn't mean it's automatically going to swing in. It doesn't push the game further more than any normal creature would, and in some cases far less than many creatures.
I honestly haven't played against enough goad decks to have a strong opinion.
In theory, I like it because it can increase the pace of the game. I think that I prefer monarch as a mechanic, though, because players are incentivized rather than forced to attack.
I played a lot of Commander Legends draft, online and in paper, and I found the format to be very stall-y. I guess that the abundance of goad is supposed to prevent that in this set? (I realize that we're talking about a precon here, but I believe there is a good amount of goad in CL: BG).
People have way more of a laugh if somebody gets goaded while usually a boardwipe will be more like "argh man... now we need to start over" kinda thing.
I can't say anyone I know, or myself, feel better with goad. I can't stop a goad, but I can stop a board wipe through protection or even recover from it and end up farther ahead than I was before thanks to it. The only way to come out ahead of a goad is to have bigger creatures.
Sure, spot removal is great for that, and I agree that no one likes their turn being controlled in some capacity, but the key difference between removal and goading is that it makes everyone need to react. If you kill Timmy's big threats and leave his board barren, then Jenny and Spike can choose to not do anything, if they don't want to. If you force Timmy to attack Jenny or Spike, they have to react to that, and decide whether to strike back, or try to aim at you to stop this from happening again, or any number of other reactions. It gets everyone involved in s way that removal does not. As for Myriad, yes it works like Token strategies, but the key difference is that it again demands attacking, and at least attempting to push the end of the game closer.
You forget with so much "all creatures are goaded" effects now it's less "forcing people to attack" and more "the next person in turn order is the most boinked with getting blocked first, the previous person in turn order gets to block while the rest sit there and get slapped around" all the while the one doing the goading sits there free as a bird. I've been goaded five turns in a row and I'd much prefer only playing my commander for five turns straight and watching it be killed over my entire board be goaded. None of it is enjoyable and all you hear is "Sorry, they're making me do it" again and again.
As for Myriad it doesn't really offer anything more than just pure attacking, which happens anyways in a Commander game and just because a creature has it doesn't mean it's automatically going to swing in. It doesn't push the game further more than any normal creature would, and in some cases far less than many creatures.
I guess it just comes down to personal preference and what different playgroups are into hehe. I can understand how people would get tired of it if there's too much, but that can be said for any type of cards/strategies/mechanics. I just guess my playgroup finds it funny because it's kinda there, but also kinda rare if that makes sense. And I also don't really care at all about what I'm playing against. With the amount of cards and stuff, you just kinda roll with whatever you're facing.
And the same can really be said about recovering from a big round of goading and a boardwipe. You're just forced to take action and recover in a different way. You can counter a boardwipe or have removal for a creature that can goad. It's kinda the same to me. But again, it just boils down to personal preference, there's no right or wrong either way hehe.
The only thing I find boring about the game is a stalemate that drags on. Goading is just one way of removing them. I think it's a fun way because it shakes things up hehe. Also because it's like, if there is a stalemate, people are usually kinda relieved when somebody makes the first move because it gets the game going again. And like I said earlier, I'm usually the first to do that just for the fun of it hehe. I don't at all care about winning, I just want everybody to have fun.
As for Myriad it doesn't really offer anything more than just pure attacking, which happens anyways in a Commander game and just because a creature has it doesn't mean it's automatically going to swing in. It doesn't push the game further more than any normal creature would, and in some cases far less than many creatures.
Assuming 40 life and no blockers, a 5/5 with Myriad by itself ends the game 16 turns quicker than a normal 5/5. Like, just from a pure math angle, that's how things get ended faster. (Also, now that I'm thinking about it, Myriad gets around goad. That's a neat interaction they put in the set.)
I think they push it just because it can solve one of the bigger issues in Commander games: Stalling.
Land Destruction can only make the game go longer. Goad may be aggravating, but it gets people pushing towards an end. That's the biggest thing they look for in Commander Mechanics (hence Myriad and Encore and so on)
Yes because we need to encourage more Commander decks that are capable of winning on turn 4 like Kess, Dissident Mage. I'm sorry what?!? I'd still like to play the game after turn 4. Why should I sacrifice my own enjoyment of the game for someone else's If we don't go to game 2 for that matter? It's not like we shell $200+ on these decks for nothing. Then maybe I should've proxied my deck instead to curb Market Inflation? Just WOW... Okay...
Goad was specifically made a major theme in this set as a response to the biggest complaint from the draft environment of the original Commander Legends: despite Monarch and sweepers all the way down to common, most games still ended up with people growing their board and refusing to attack for the better part of an hour. The longer this goes, the bigger and more complex board states get, and the less incentives there are to do anything. Basically, if Limited board stalls are bad, and Commander board stalls equally worse, combining them leads to gameplay that needlessly stretches on for a painfully long time. Goad is meant to force interaction with combat to end these board stalls, while myriad alleviates the decision paralysis and feelbads of choosing which player to attack (now you just choose which board state would allow the original copy to survive). Since the precons are an extension of set themes, goad gets a precon. This isn't to make games only last until turn 4, this is to make them end within three hours.
True you have a valid point here. When it comes to going into combat in EDH / Commander players don't want to make enemies too early in the game only to lose from an army of creatures when they want to be able to play their cards without having to wait an hour for the next game or something along those lines. It's almost a Catch 22 in a way. Do I go into combat and risk not being able to set up my board state to combo off or do I hold off trying to combo and swing despite not getting as much value as I would from trying to assemble my combo pieces? There's only a few colors that work really well with triggering combos either through dealing combat damage or just by attacking mainly being Green and Red. Goad as a game mechanic always felt like it was made as a deterrent for Kingmaker decks like Zedruu the Greathearted because that's how it was originally designed. As for Myriad I definitely agree with you while we just haven't seen as much support for that game mechanic to be utilized prior to Commander Legends: Battle for Baldur's Gate. Also lack of good viable haste enablers in the format unfortunately makes Myriad less enticing.
"Restriction breeds creativity." - Sheldon Menery on EDH / Commander in Magic: The Gathering
"Cancel Culture is the real reason why everyone's not allowed to have nice things anymore." - Anonymous
"For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his own soul?" - Mark 8:36
"Most men and women will grow up to love their servitude and will never dream of revolution." - Aldous Huxley, Brave New World
"Every life decision is always a risk / reward proposition." - Sanjay Gupta
The second deck for today is the UR Draconic Dissent precon. It's a goad tribal deck, with Dragon tribal and artifact/Treasure subthemes. Leading the annoyance brigade with Firkraag, Cunning Instigator is the drow behind the death arena known as The Black Pits, and his background in artifice. Decklist is here.
Here's blue laughing at you.
Wrapping up today's spoilers by seeing red.
I'm sold haha
2 copies of non-creatures ? It combos with a bunch of stuff, even just generic stuff like Oblivion Ring (first token targets the dragon, the second dragon removed the first, so you end up with the dragon against and a token, repeat as many times as you want).
WUBRG#BlackLotusMatterWUBRG
👮👮👮 #BlueLivesMatter 👮👮👮
does it beat mairisi and Kardur?
Oh I got a infinite by the way
astral dragon + cursed mirror = infinite dragons
Astral Dragon is quite a good card, works well with a lot of strategies.
Land Destruction can only make the game go longer. Goad may be aggravating, but it gets people pushing towards an end. That's the biggest thing they look for in Commander Mechanics (hence Myriad and Encore and so on)
"Restriction breeds creativity." - Sheldon Menery on EDH / Commander in Magic: The Gathering
"Cancel Culture is the real reason why everyone's not allowed to have nice things anymore." - Anonymous
"For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his own soul?" - Mark 8:36
"Most men and women will grow up to love their servitude and will never dream of revolution." - Aldous Huxley, Brave New World
"Every life decision is always a risk / reward proposition." - Sanjay Gupta
You bring up a good point about stalling, but that's kind of what removal is for. I just don't like a portion of my turn controlled. I would disagree about Myriad being a way to push towards the end only because that's what token stategies do.
Not remotely what I was saying. I'm talking about those moments where everyone has built up a fort and no one feels safe attacking, so the game grinds to a halt, turning into a riveting twenty minutes of "Draw, Go" with a side helping of "Whose turn is it?" That is what I meant by stalling.
Sure, spot removal is great for that, and I agree that no one likes their turn being controlled in some capacity, but the key difference between removal and goading is that it makes everyone need to react. If you kill Timmy's big threats and leave his board barren, then Jenny and Spike can choose to not do anything, if they don't want to. If you force Timmy to attack Jenny or Spike, they have to react to that, and decide whether to strike back, or try to aim at you to stop this from happening again, or any number of other reactions. It gets everyone involved in s way that removal does not. As for Myriad, yes it works like Token strategies, but the key difference is that it again demands attacking, and at least attempting to push the end of the game closer.
Stalling/stalemates are the most boring bits of the game for me and I'll usually just start swinging even if it means I'm going to die, just to make something happen and the others to have fun.
I like creatures, please don't make me keep them in hand wizards!
On a side note, since when are elves red? That card is wrong in so many ways...
I can't say anyone I know, or myself, feel better with goad. I can't stop a goad, but I can stop a board wipe through protection or even recover from it and end up farther ahead than I was before thanks to it. The only way to come out ahead of a goad is to have bigger creatures.
You forget with so much "all creatures are goaded" effects now it's less "forcing people to attack" and more "the next person in turn order is the most boinked with getting blocked first, the previous person in turn order gets to block while the rest sit there and get slapped around" all the while the one doing the goading sits there free as a bird. I've been goaded five turns in a row and I'd much prefer only playing my commander for five turns straight and watching it be killed over my entire board be goaded. None of it is enjoyable and all you hear is "Sorry, they're making me do it" again and again.
As for Myriad it doesn't really offer anything more than just pure attacking, which happens anyways in a Commander game and just because a creature has it doesn't mean it's automatically going to swing in. It doesn't push the game further more than any normal creature would, and in some cases far less than many creatures.
In theory, I like it because it can increase the pace of the game. I think that I prefer monarch as a mechanic, though, because players are incentivized rather than forced to attack.
I played a lot of Commander Legends draft, online and in paper, and I found the format to be very stall-y. I guess that the abundance of goad is supposed to prevent that in this set? (I realize that we're talking about a precon here, but I believe there is a good amount of goad in CL: BG).
I guess it just comes down to personal preference and what different playgroups are into hehe. I can understand how people would get tired of it if there's too much, but that can be said for any type of cards/strategies/mechanics. I just guess my playgroup finds it funny because it's kinda there, but also kinda rare if that makes sense. And I also don't really care at all about what I'm playing against. With the amount of cards and stuff, you just kinda roll with whatever you're facing.
And the same can really be said about recovering from a big round of goading and a boardwipe. You're just forced to take action and recover in a different way. You can counter a boardwipe or have removal for a creature that can goad. It's kinda the same to me. But again, it just boils down to personal preference, there's no right or wrong either way hehe.
The only thing I find boring about the game is a stalemate that drags on. Goading is just one way of removing them. I think it's a fun way because it shakes things up hehe. Also because it's like, if there is a stalemate, people are usually kinda relieved when somebody makes the first move because it gets the game going again. And like I said earlier, I'm usually the first to do that just for the fun of it hehe. I don't at all care about winning, I just want everybody to have fun.
Assuming 40 life and no blockers, a 5/5 with Myriad by itself ends the game 16 turns quicker than a normal 5/5. Like, just from a pure math angle, that's how things get ended faster. (Also, now that I'm thinking about it, Myriad gets around goad. That's a neat interaction they put in the set.)
"Restriction breeds creativity." - Sheldon Menery on EDH / Commander in Magic: The Gathering
"Cancel Culture is the real reason why everyone's not allowed to have nice things anymore." - Anonymous
"For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his own soul?" - Mark 8:36
"Most men and women will grow up to love their servitude and will never dream of revolution." - Aldous Huxley, Brave New World
"Every life decision is always a risk / reward proposition." - Sanjay Gupta