So basically you gobble up with everything wotc come up with and hate everything non-wotc? Sounds like a totally reasonable and not biased point of view. Wotc brought us ton of crap too.
The cards showed so far have a very mtg-like art style. They have reasonable mechanics. They don't feel out of place at all, especially after wotc esperimenting with different designs like they did with New Capenna and Neon Kamigawa.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
How i feel about competitive players and casual players in EDH: The competitive are german tourists, the casual are italian tourists, both in a italian beach. The italians asking themselves "why are the germans here?" make a legitimate question, the answer is because the beach is beautiful, no matter the country you came from. The italians wanting to ban the germans are dumb, because if the germans pay for their stay and follow the rules like everyone else, they have the right to be in the beach. Hovewer, if the germans started to ask themselves "why are the italians here?"... they would be dumb as hell.
Stop having a black/white vision of Magic, it's a game that evolves and break and changes his own rules all the time and it's great exactly because it has so much freedom and potential that other brands can only dream of.
Let me first state I'm OK with 40K cards even though I won't be buying any of them.
But what would be "a bridge too far" for you personally?
A 6th color of Magic? A 7th?
Starting life totals changing at random? Or changing based on deck size?
Full nudity on cards?
Cards made of metal?
Elimination of the 2nd Main Phase?
Adding a new phase with only certain playable cards in that phase?
What I am trying to say is that everyone is different. Everyone has their own boundaries. For some 40K is "a bridge too far". WotC hasn't reached mine yet but understand some have come to that and have the passion to argue that it shouldn't be crossed. Both sides should just agree to disagree and move on at this point as neither side is going to move off their position.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Playing since 1994: Currently MAGS (HomeBrew),Standard & Pauper (Pioneer and Modern are degenerate trash formats)
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
I'm sorry but nowhere Magic has ever promised to be a game limited exclusively on traditional fantasy setting. Never. Since the very early inception of Magic lore, sci-fi stuff was always a core element in both story and cards (all the Urza and Thran Empire and Skyships with laser beams etc.).
And both Star Wars and Star Trek are sci-fi. So... is it okay to mix the two? Would it be fine if Picard were to use the Force all of a sudden?
I mean, if your answer is yes, then you approach fictional worlds entirely differently than some other people. But don't tell them they're wrong in how they enjoy their entertainment.
Like yeha, I think Star Trek is fine. I think Star Wars is fine. But mixing the two is... icky. Leaving aside the whole "the themes don't match" which could easily be turned around when it comes to Magic and LotR or whatever, the point remains that they are separate franchises and different continuities. The world operates under different rules. And even then, even if all of it matched. They're still different worlds.
Sure, Picard using the force and emperor Palpatine hopping off the Bat Mobile and summoning Pikachu from it's pokeball might be fun at first as a parody. But once the initial punchline wears off it's just an incoherent mess. Again, if you see nothing wrong with it, then that's that, but don't go around and say people have to enjoy a game/franchise/thing the way you do.
As for the whole argument "just don't play with it". Well, I literally can't avoid it, unfortunately. If I play standard, I am forced to play with cards from Forgotten Realms. Even if I don't have them in my deck, I play with them because I interact with my opponents' cards. I can't play jumpstart without running into Forgotten Realms. I can't play Brawl without running into Forgotten Realms. So there's that for "just don't play with it".
I think putting crossovers into a sideproduct like UB is... the better way to do it, but it makes casual formats like Commander increasingly unattractive to me, because I really don't feel like playing against space marines and Sauron and the Borg.
Whatever.
And I haven't gotten into the whole argument that these crossovers actually erode Magic as a brand, but I don't think entering that discussion with people who haven't even learned yet that different people like different things will be very constructive.
Geez, the amount of frothing churlish hate people have for the mere prospect of other people enjoying things differently than they do is staggering. I'm glad that WotC is smart enough to ignore the screeching minority here and continue doing crossovers people enjoy, UB obviously makes a lot of people happy (and I'm one of those people).
As a side benefit, gatekeeping brats seem inclined to drum themselves out of playgroups entirely by refusing to play with a litany of specific players instead of just enjoying the game. Its always delicious when a turd vindictively declares that they won't play with X, expecting others to agree with them, the entire room goes "K" and then said turd is unable to find a game until they grow up or leave.
Super hyped for the Tyranid deck, and am in fact in the process of gluing together 18 warriors right now. It'll probably be a jank garbage deck but I'm still building it
Here's hoping for The Swarmlord and Old One-Eye as commander options! Legitimately curious what the mechanic is going to be, ngl gonna be bummed if its just slivers lol.
Omg, not this drivel again, lmfao. I thought we had left this behind in the other thread.
Honey, it's not gatekeeping when people decide how to spend their own free time. If someone doesn't like a game or an aspect of the game, and stops engaging with it as a result, they're not gatekeeping anyone. They are expressing their right to enjoy whatever they want, how they want.
Do you really believe you are THAT entitled to other people's freetime? Grow the hell up.
But what would be "a bridge too far" for you personally?
Hard question. If something it's made good (and WotC it's very careful to make things good, usually at least) I'm up to appreciate almost everything, I'm pretty much very open and inclusive in terms to mixing fantasy with other genres and exploring new spaces. Ok I would hate a western set, but that's just a personal thing because I hate the western genre in general, but maybe WotC could be able to craft the world in such a way that even I could be fascinated somehow (For example I was very perplexed when they announced "streets of new capenna" because it sounded something too "cheesy", modern in a awkward way and almost a parody of crime/noir genre, but it turns out they did a wonderful job in terms of aesthetic, resonating tropes and world building and it's currently one of my favorite sets because of that.)
Probably the only "bridge too far" would be if MaRo and the whole Council of Colors would be hitted by a truck and color pie would be runned by a guy that makes every color do everything making basically the differences between colors meaningless. Mechanical-wise that's one of the few things that WotC should be actually be very careful about. But creatively, lore-wise? Sure, I'm up to basically everything, as long as it is made with good taste and make sense (and as a Vorthos UB cards doesn't bother to me at all since they're not canon to the multiverse, but it's just a fan service thing and anyway WotC now promise to do anyway also Magic versions of the UB stuff, if someone really think UB ruins their personal immersion to the game).
What I am trying to say is that everyone is different. Everyone has their own boundaries. For some 40K is "a bridge too far". WotC hasn't reached mine yet but understand some have come to that and have the passion to argue that it shouldn't be crossed.
Yes, I understand that everyone have their own boundaries of what's acceptable and whats not, but it's build-in in Magic essence the things that are multiple worlds differents between one another. Players has to expect that creatively things can go in way they dont like in some worlds, simply because thats the intrinsic nature itself of a narrative of people able to travel between different worlds. And since even with UB, they are givinng anyway the Magic versions (at least with the blatantly non-fantasy stuff like the Secret Lair exclusive crossovers), I'd say that WotC was smart enough to do an apparently "poor, cheesy, marketing move" in the survace in a way that still doesn't destroy really the overall aesthetic of the game but just give more options to express gamers personality.
Yes, 40K is more about sci-fi and there are no plans to make magic versions of them, but the type of technology, as a veteran player feels just like old-school Magic, because in Urza times this is the kind of technology you could expect to see (and we will see again in the Brothers Wars), so it doesn't bother me at all simply because this kind of technology it is effectively already part of one of the most important parts of Magic lore ever made it which have still consequences even in today lore. I know nothing of 40K but from the cards WotC showed us, there's still a poetical/romantical aspects in names and flavor texts that resonates with my idea of fantasy vibes, so I'm ok with it.
As for the whole argument "just don't play with it". Well, I literally can't avoid it, unfortunately.
That's a problem that exist since the inception of the game. Maybe some players are so "Lore purist" that deep in they heart hate that Arabian Night and Portal 3 Kingdoms are a thing but they have to deal in tournaments against Bazaar of Bagdad or Imperial Seal even if they have nothing to do with Magic lore. Doesn't matter if they are old cards or even if it was only one card. They are part of the game forever and you have to deal with. So this is nothing new. Magic can use other IP, did that since the very first expansion of the game and you have to deal with it, whetever you like or not.
And I haven't gotten into the whole argument that these crossovers actually erode Magic as a brand
Don't worry time will tell us who was in the right side in the end. But something tells me that maybe is more likely that you wont survive Magic (perhaps because you wont like whatever direction WotC takes or whatever reason and abandon the game) but Magic may survive and prosper without you.
As for the whole argument "just don't play with it". Well, I literally can't avoid it, unfortunately.
That's a problem that exist since the inception of the game. Maybe some players are so "Lore purist" that deep in they heart hate that Arabian Night and Portal 3 Kingdoms are a thing but they have to deal in tournaments against Bazaar of Bagdad or Imperial Seal even if they have nothing to do with Magic lore. Doesn't matter if they are old cards or even if it was only one card. They are part of the game forever and you have to deal with. So this is nothing new. Magic can use other IP, did that since the very first expansion of the game and you have to deal with it, whetever you like or not.
Nothing you say is particularly insightful or relevant.
I have to deal with it? Well yes, that was one of my key arguments in my original post. I have to deal with it, either by continuing to play the game or quitting.
As for the "It's always been a part of Magic." That's a weak argument, just like similar arguments regarding the color pie. "A card 30 years ago did this in alpha, therefore it's completely within this color's pie." No, precedent does not make it a law. Things change. The color pie evolves. And crossovers (I'd argue using real world myths is not really crossovers, but whatever) had been removed from Magic for a long time for a reason, a reason which apparently had been forgotten recently.
"Magic can use other IP"
Magic can do whatever it wants. Again, you're not bringing anything to the discussion. Magic can do literally anything with their product that's within the law. Doesn't mean it's necessarily good for business. And it also doesn't mean people aren't allowed to have an opinion on it.
A 6th color of Magic? A 7th?
Starting life totals changing at random? Or changing based on deck size?
Full nudity on cards?
Cards made of metal?
Elimination of the 2nd Main Phase?
Adding a new phase with only certain playable cards in that phase?
· I actually consider Purple as the standard sixth color . You know , like they were going to do for Planar Chaos . Neon Genesis Kamigawa was Secret Lair·s first foyer into 12-color Magic , and you can see on the cards how the color palette looks different than other sets .
· Eh , that would suck .
· Fully waiting for the day we finally get Sex Magic .
· Full-metal art cards are a typical luxury item .
· Nah it·s better with .
· An interesting idea .
Sure, Picard using the force and emperor Palpatine hopping off the Bat Mobile and summoning Pikachu from it's pokeball might be fun at first as a parody. But once the initial punchline wears off it's just an incoherent mess.
Ok sed that·s what Life is like though . Would you ever put Hello Kitty War-Paint on Darth Vader ? No , tho a cosplayer would . Would you ever make a solid gold AK47 ? No , tho a warlord would . It would have been really great if Magic could have stayed on its trajectory as an archive of classical mysticism , yet it didn·t . It saw the innate Magic-ness in Corporate Logos and Hip-Pop and Machine Arcanomancy and made a bold move .
Probably the only "bridge too far" would be if MaRo and the whole Council of Colors would be hitted by a truck and color pie would be runned by a guy that makes every color do everything making basically the differences between colors meaningless.
Thanks for responding. I just wanted to bring this line up for a minute then. Don't be surprised when someone will have ZERO issues with this "bridge" and potentially chastises you for not being open or creative enough. There are always people farther along the tolerance spectrum. I agree that would be way out of bounds for me as well. Again, what I am trying to get across is that each individual is allowed their opinion and it is just as equal as anyone elses opinion. Notice I didn't say right or wrong or true or false, that is another discussion entirely. Best to agree to disagree and move on.
I would guess a lot of the anti-40K crowd does not want Magic turning into "New Coke". Its a legitimate opinion.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Playing since 1994: Currently MAGS (HomeBrew),Standard & Pauper (Pioneer and Modern are degenerate trash formats)
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
Does anyone want to hazard a guess on the Dominaria United Jumpstart packs possibly displacing/supplanting Theme Boosters? Or will these be in addition to Theme Boosters do you think?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Playing since 1994: Currently MAGS (HomeBrew),Standard & Pauper (Pioneer and Modern are degenerate trash formats)
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
(Still hasn't gotten over the change from old-border or the addition of mythics)
Hey I'll admit I was pissed when they got rid of interrupts and changed Summon to Creature. But here I am, 23 years later, still playing the game. Adapt or die?
Things change. The color pie evolves. And crossovers
You are absolutely correct. Things change, so do games. Get over it.
'buster
You are correct when you say I am correct. Does that mean I have to like and embrace every single change?
Like, people come into this thread and say "I don't like this, actually." and then other people clutch their pearls and go "how DARE".
This is a forum. On the internet. Talking about Magic and what we think of it is like the whole point?
People are allowed to like things. People are allowed to dislike things. Get over it.
You're going to be disappointed for quite a long time then. Honestly I really don't give a ***** what you think about certain aspects of the game. It really doesn't bother me one bit. In fact I don't care what anyone here thinks of certain aspects of the game. Why? It has zero effect on how I personally experience it. That's all that matters here.
Sure, I dislike things to. But I live with it. Going into high school-like cliques bc something doesn't jive with you is rather immature. If someone playing with your example of AFR cards bothers you that much, and you want to table flip and storm off in a tantrum, then maybe you should give yourself a check. I wouldn't want to play with someone who exhibits toxic privilege like you do anyway.
As you were.
EDIT:
Is it just me or does Animatou look a bit...older...than the last time we saw her on a card?
Does anyone want to hazard a guess on the Dominaria United Jumpstart packs possibly displacing/supplanting Theme Boosters? Or will these be in addition to Theme Boosters do you think?
There's an answer for ya in the WotC page.
Replacing Theme Boosters, fan-favorite Jumpstart packs let players new and returning alike mix, match, and enjoy the mayhem of unique themes with each latest release. Jumpstart packs in Dominaria United and beyond follow the original Jumpstart release where each pack is a hidden theme to discover when you open, and shuffling any two packs together is all you need to be ready to play.
They flat out say the Jumpstart packs are replacing theme boosters. Probably the easiest way to actually get them to sell, because they'll once again have exclusive cards. And the Jumpstart unique cards likely won't be found in Set or Collector Boosters, so there'll be another product for people to try and grab in order to get the mechanically unique cards.
Does anyone want to hazard a guess on the Dominaria United Jumpstart packs possibly displacing/supplanting Theme Boosters? Or will these be in addition to Theme Boosters do you think?
There's an answer for ya in the WotC page.
Replacing Theme Boosters, fan-favorite Jumpstart packs let players new and returning alike mix, match, and enjoy the mayhem of unique themes with each latest release. Jumpstart packs in Dominaria United and beyond follow the original Jumpstart release where each pack is a hidden theme to discover when you open, and shuffling any two packs together is all you need to be ready to play.
They flat out say the Jumpstart packs are replacing theme boosters. Probably the easiest way to actually get them to sell, because they'll once again have exclusive cards. And the Jumpstart unique cards likely won't be found in Set or Collector Boosters, so there'll be another product for people to try and grab in order to get the mechanically unique cards.
Thank you for sharing, I did not see that article.
Now this begs the question will they all be Dominaria United cards in the Jumpstart "decks" or will it be a mix and match. My curiosity is piqued.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Playing since 1994: Currently MAGS (HomeBrew),Standard & Pauper (Pioneer and Modern are degenerate trash formats)
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
You're going to be disappointed for quite a long time then. Honestly I really don't give a ***** what you think about certain aspects of the game. It really doesn't bother me one bit. In fact I don't care what anyone here thinks of certain aspects of the game. Why? It has zero effect on how I personally experience it. That's all that matters here.
Sure, I dislike things to. But I live with it. Going into high school-like cliques bc something doesn't jive with you is rather immature. If someone playing with your example of AFR cards bothers you that much, and you want to table flip and storm off in a tantrum, then maybe you should give yourself a check. I wouldn't want to play with someone who exhibits toxic privilege like you do anyway.
See, this is exactly the kind of attitude I have a problem with as far as this thread is concerned. People come into this thread saying "I don't like this." and suddenly they are being accused to being childish, of being gatekeepers and throwing tantrums. As I said before, people are allowed to like things. People are allowed to dislike things. This goes for both sides. But what is not okay is to then attack the people behind those opinions and try to misrepresent their posts and actions just so you can come across as superior.
Cliques? Table flips? Tantrums? I never did any of these. And nothing I said imply I would do these things.
Does anyone want to hazard a guess on the Dominaria United Jumpstart packs possibly displacing/supplanting Theme Boosters? Or will these be in addition to Theme Boosters do you think?
There's an answer for ya in the WotC page.
Replacing Theme Boosters, fan-favorite Jumpstart packs let players new and returning alike mix, match, and enjoy the mayhem of unique themes with each latest release. Jumpstart packs in Dominaria United and beyond follow the original Jumpstart release where each pack is a hidden theme to discover when you open, and shuffling any two packs together is all you need to be ready to play.
They flat out say the Jumpstart packs are replacing theme boosters. Probably the easiest way to actually get them to sell, because they'll once again have exclusive cards. And the Jumpstart unique cards likely won't be found in Set or Collector Boosters, so there'll be another product for people to try and grab in order to get the mechanically unique cards.
Thank you for sharing, I did not see that article.
Now this begs the question will they all be Dominaria United cards in the Jumpstart "decks" or will it be a mix and match. My curiosity is piqued.
All the cards but 1 in the pact are from the main set, but 1 card per pack is a unique to Dominaria United packs, they can't be found in other products.
I will also note that future premiere sets will also get tneir own versions of Jumpstart, so you can expect Jumpstart Brothers War this hear too.
You're going to be disappointed for quite a long time then. Honestly I really don't give a ***** what you think about certain aspects of the game. It really doesn't bother me one bit. In fact I don't care what anyone here thinks of certain aspects of the game. Why? It has zero effect on how I personally experience it. That's all that matters here.
Sure, I dislike things to. But I live with it. Going into high school-like cliques bc something doesn't jive with you is rather immature. If someone playing with your example of AFR cards bothers you that much, and you want to table flip and storm off in a tantrum, then maybe you should give yourself a check. I wouldn't want to play with someone who exhibits toxic privilege like you do anyway.
See, this is exactly the kind of attitude I have a problem with as far as this thread is concerned. People come into this thread saying "I don't like this." and suddenly they are being accused to being childish, of being gatekeepers and throwing tantrums. As I said before, people are allowed to like things. People are allowed to dislike things. This goes for both sides. But what is not okay is to then attack the people behind those opinions and try to misrepresent their posts and actions just so you can come across as superior.
Cliques? Table flips? Tantrums? I never did any of these. And nothing I said imply I would do these things.
I normally don't participate in such discussions because I don't see any value. Just wanted to notice that the message earlier in this thread was not: "I don't like this." it was "I hate that others will buy this garbage." and that is the difference. Because what I buy should not be your or anybody else concern. You don't like the UB stuff? Okay I guess. The funny part is that everybody is complaining about the shear amount of products wotc is releasing. So just pass the products that aren't for you. If you dislike that others are playing those cards or that you have to play with/against somebody using those cards than you are in the wrong in my opinion.
MaRo explicitly stated in his blog that they're doing Commander decks and not an entire set of Warhammer exactly because Warhammer lore is not made with color pie in mind, so it's much easier to do a series of color imbalanced commander decks than an entire set to draft.
I didn't know that. Thanks for the information. I thought that there were like 8 other factions and that they could choose another one more fitting for a Green/White deck instead of having 3 of 4 decks having black or blue.
The jumpstart product will have unique cards? Oh well. I hope that jumpstart will be popular so the singles aren't that expensive.
As for the "It's always been a part of Magic." That's a weak argument, just like similar arguments regarding the color pie. "A card 30 years ago did this in alpha, therefore it's completely within this color's pie.
Equiparating Arabian Nights and P3K as color pie breaks in Magic it's the point you have to prove, not to assume. I don't recall WotC ever said Arabian Nights or P3K are errors that should had never existed in the game, like they say that green can't straight up kill creatures or red deal with enchantments. So, until you are able to prove otherwise, they are a completely legits precedents that prove that actually doing other IP stuff has always been part of Magic, even if very infrequently, and that doing it more its just doing more frequently something that was never forbidden in the first place (and I made to the other guy the fitting example of "phasing out" permanents, which is also a very old mechanic that appeared in the past for only in very few sets, but that unlike banding or other true mistake mechanics, WotC actually recently discovered a way to make them playable, elegant and non-confusing to players even inside modern sets and new cards of current design era).
As for the "It's always been a part of Magic." That's a weak argument, just like similar arguments regarding the color pie. "A card 30 years ago did this in alpha, therefore it's completely within this color's pie.
Equiparating Arabian Nights and P3K as color pie breaks in Magic it's the point you have to prove, not to assume. I don't recall WotC ever said Arabian Nights or P3K are errors that should had never existed in the game, like they say that green can't straight up kill creatures or red deal with enchantments. So, until you are able to prove otherwise [...]
Just Google "Rabiah scale" to find out why that plane is the least likely to return in all of Magic. Hint: Yes, it has to do with the fact that its not a Wizards IP, and that stance was maintained for at least a decade. I don't know if you actually didn't know this or just pretended to not know (both are really not all that good).
But I'm not going to bother any longer because regardless of what I write here, people are just going to handwave it all with "the game changes, deal with it."
You say that doing 3rd party IPs and allowing color pie breaks are very different, but they're really not. They're arbitrary things that Wizards has decided on. If everything goes, why don't allow enchantment destruction in red? After all, there would be people who would like it, and buy the cards! From what I've gathered in these threads, those two things alone are enough to justify everything and anything and label people who disagree as gatekeepers.
MaRo explicitly stated in his blog that they're doing Commander decks and not an entire set of Warhammer exactly because Warhammer lore is not made with color pie in mind, so it's much easier to do a series of color imbalanced commander decks than an entire set to draft.
I didn't know that. Thanks for the information. I thought that there were like 8 other factions and that they could choose another one more fitting for a Green/White deck instead of having 3 of 4 decks having black or blue.
Outside the Tyranids, you have the Orks as a possible green faction , who are getting an entire Secret Lair to themselves. Even with all the Imperium collapsed together, green would still have the least representation among the factions. White could also go to the Craftworld Aeldari and the T'au Empire, so it's not underrepresented. Due to the setting, there won't be a green-white faction at all.
Green-White-Purple might just be hidden in the metagame . We get all kinds of stuff hidden in the metagame so it wouldn·t surprise me if there really was an entire faction that went implicit .
So my guess on "Braids" (might be a similar looking Cabal leftover) is that we don't see a compleated version of the character, but a Nightmare version that has been twisted by their time in the Dementia pocket world. I might be wrong, but is that the Collector's Booster version? Would a different art style for the special treatment explain what this looks like?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Planar Chaos was not a mistake neither was it random. You might want to look at it again.
[thread=239793][Game] Level Up - Creature[/thread]
So basically you gobble up with everything wotc come up with and hate everything non-wotc? Sounds like a totally reasonable and not biased point of view. Wotc brought us ton of crap too.
The cards showed so far have a very mtg-like art style. They have reasonable mechanics. They don't feel out of place at all, especially after wotc esperimenting with different designs like they did with New Capenna and Neon Kamigawa.
Don't you like this idea?
Nope
Let me first state I'm OK with 40K cards even though I won't be buying any of them.
But what would be "a bridge too far" for you personally?
A 6th color of Magic? A 7th?
Starting life totals changing at random? Or changing based on deck size?
Full nudity on cards?
Cards made of metal?
Elimination of the 2nd Main Phase?
Adding a new phase with only certain playable cards in that phase?
What I am trying to say is that everyone is different. Everyone has their own boundaries. For some 40K is "a bridge too far". WotC hasn't reached mine yet but understand some have come to that and have the passion to argue that it shouldn't be crossed. Both sides should just agree to disagree and move on at this point as neither side is going to move off their position.
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
And both Star Wars and Star Trek are sci-fi. So... is it okay to mix the two? Would it be fine if Picard were to use the Force all of a sudden?
I mean, if your answer is yes, then you approach fictional worlds entirely differently than some other people. But don't tell them they're wrong in how they enjoy their entertainment.
Like yeha, I think Star Trek is fine. I think Star Wars is fine. But mixing the two is... icky. Leaving aside the whole "the themes don't match" which could easily be turned around when it comes to Magic and LotR or whatever, the point remains that they are separate franchises and different continuities. The world operates under different rules. And even then, even if all of it matched. They're still different worlds.
Sure, Picard using the force and emperor Palpatine hopping off the Bat Mobile and summoning Pikachu from it's pokeball might be fun at first as a parody. But once the initial punchline wears off it's just an incoherent mess. Again, if you see nothing wrong with it, then that's that, but don't go around and say people have to enjoy a game/franchise/thing the way you do.
As for the whole argument "just don't play with it". Well, I literally can't avoid it, unfortunately. If I play standard, I am forced to play with cards from Forgotten Realms. Even if I don't have them in my deck, I play with them because I interact with my opponents' cards. I can't play jumpstart without running into Forgotten Realms. I can't play Brawl without running into Forgotten Realms. So there's that for "just don't play with it".
I think putting crossovers into a sideproduct like UB is... the better way to do it, but it makes casual formats like Commander increasingly unattractive to me, because I really don't feel like playing against space marines and Sauron and the Borg.
Whatever.
And I haven't gotten into the whole argument that these crossovers actually erode Magic as a brand, but I don't think entering that discussion with people who haven't even learned yet that different people like different things will be very constructive.
Omg, not this drivel again, lmfao. I thought we had left this behind in the other thread.
Honey, it's not gatekeeping when people decide how to spend their own free time. If someone doesn't like a game or an aspect of the game, and stops engaging with it as a result, they're not gatekeeping anyone. They are expressing their right to enjoy whatever they want, how they want.
Do you really believe you are THAT entitled to other people's freetime? Grow the hell up.
Hard question. If something it's made good (and WotC it's very careful to make things good, usually at least) I'm up to appreciate almost everything, I'm pretty much very open and inclusive in terms to mixing fantasy with other genres and exploring new spaces. Ok I would hate a western set, but that's just a personal thing because I hate the western genre in general, but maybe WotC could be able to craft the world in such a way that even I could be fascinated somehow (For example I was very perplexed when they announced "streets of new capenna" because it sounded something too "cheesy", modern in a awkward way and almost a parody of crime/noir genre, but it turns out they did a wonderful job in terms of aesthetic, resonating tropes and world building and it's currently one of my favorite sets because of that.)
Probably the only "bridge too far" would be if MaRo and the whole Council of Colors would be hitted by a truck and color pie would be runned by a guy that makes every color do everything making basically the differences between colors meaningless. Mechanical-wise that's one of the few things that WotC should be actually be very careful about. But creatively, lore-wise? Sure, I'm up to basically everything, as long as it is made with good taste and make sense (and as a Vorthos UB cards doesn't bother to me at all since they're not canon to the multiverse, but it's just a fan service thing and anyway WotC now promise to do anyway also Magic versions of the UB stuff, if someone really think UB ruins their personal immersion to the game).
Yes, I understand that everyone have their own boundaries of what's acceptable and whats not, but it's build-in in Magic essence the things that are multiple worlds differents between one another. Players has to expect that creatively things can go in way they dont like in some worlds, simply because thats the intrinsic nature itself of a narrative of people able to travel between different worlds. And since even with UB, they are givinng anyway the Magic versions (at least with the blatantly non-fantasy stuff like the Secret Lair exclusive crossovers), I'd say that WotC was smart enough to do an apparently "poor, cheesy, marketing move" in the survace in a way that still doesn't destroy really the overall aesthetic of the game but just give more options to express gamers personality.
Yes, 40K is more about sci-fi and there are no plans to make magic versions of them, but the type of technology, as a veteran player feels just like old-school Magic, because in Urza times this is the kind of technology you could expect to see (and we will see again in the Brothers Wars), so it doesn't bother me at all simply because this kind of technology it is effectively already part of one of the most important parts of Magic lore ever made it which have still consequences even in today lore. I know nothing of 40K but from the cards WotC showed us, there's still a poetical/romantical aspects in names and flavor texts that resonates with my idea of fantasy vibes, so I'm ok with it.
That's a problem that exist since the inception of the game. Maybe some players are so "Lore purist" that deep in they heart hate that Arabian Night and Portal 3 Kingdoms are a thing but they have to deal in tournaments against Bazaar of Bagdad or Imperial Seal even if they have nothing to do with Magic lore. Doesn't matter if they are old cards or even if it was only one card. They are part of the game forever and you have to deal with. So this is nothing new. Magic can use other IP, did that since the very first expansion of the game and you have to deal with it, whetever you like or not.
Don't worry time will tell us who was in the right side in the end. But something tells me that maybe is more likely that you wont survive Magic (perhaps because you wont like whatever direction WotC takes or whatever reason and abandon the game) but Magic may survive and prosper without you.
Nothing you say is particularly insightful or relevant.
I have to deal with it? Well yes, that was one of my key arguments in my original post. I have to deal with it, either by continuing to play the game or quitting.
As for the "It's always been a part of Magic." That's a weak argument, just like similar arguments regarding the color pie. "A card 30 years ago did this in alpha, therefore it's completely within this color's pie." No, precedent does not make it a law. Things change. The color pie evolves. And crossovers (I'd argue using real world myths is not really crossovers, but whatever) had been removed from Magic for a long time for a reason, a reason which apparently had been forgotten recently.
"Magic can use other IP"
Magic can do whatever it wants. Again, you're not bringing anything to the discussion. Magic can do literally anything with their product that's within the law. Doesn't mean it's necessarily good for business. And it also doesn't mean people aren't allowed to have an opinion on it.
You are absolutely correct. Things change, so do games. Get over it.
'buster
HR Analyst. Gamer. Activist | Fearless, and forthright | Aggro-control is a mindset.
Elspeth and Jhoira rock my world.
(Still hasn't gotten over the change from old-border or the addition of mythics)
Low-power cube enthusiast!
My 1570 card cube (no longer updated)
My 415 Peasant+ Artifact and Enchantment Cube
Ever-Expanding "Just throw it in" cube.
· Eh , that would suck .
· Fully waiting for the day we finally get Sex Magic .
· Full-metal art cards are a typical luxury item .
· Nah it·s better with .
· An interesting idea .
Ok sed that·s what Life is like though . Would you ever put Hello Kitty War-Paint on Darth Vader ? No , tho a cosplayer would . Would you ever make a solid gold AK47 ? No , tho a warlord would . It would have been really great if Magic could have stayed on its trajectory as an archive of classical mysticism , yet it didn·t . It saw the innate Magic-ness in Corporate Logos and Hip-Pop and Machine Arcanomancy and made a bold move .
-Irini Sengir
Thanks for responding. I just wanted to bring this line up for a minute then. Don't be surprised when someone will have ZERO issues with this "bridge" and potentially chastises you for not being open or creative enough. There are always people farther along the tolerance spectrum. I agree that would be way out of bounds for me as well. Again, what I am trying to get across is that each individual is allowed their opinion and it is just as equal as anyone elses opinion. Notice I didn't say right or wrong or true or false, that is another discussion entirely. Best to agree to disagree and move on.
I would guess a lot of the anti-40K crowd does not want Magic turning into "New Coke". Its a legitimate opinion.
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
Does anyone want to hazard a guess on the Dominaria United Jumpstart packs possibly displacing/supplanting Theme Boosters? Or will these be in addition to Theme Boosters do you think?
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
You are correct when you say I am correct. Does that mean I have to like and embrace every single change?
Like, people come into this thread and say "I don't like this, actually." and then other people clutch their pearls and go "how DARE".
This is a forum. On the internet. Talking about Magic and what we think of it is like the whole point?
People are allowed to like things. People are allowed to dislike things. Get over it.
Hey I'll admit I was pissed when they got rid of interrupts and changed Summon to Creature. But here I am, 23 years later, still playing the game. Adapt or die?
You're going to be disappointed for quite a long time then. Honestly I really don't give a ***** what you think about certain aspects of the game. It really doesn't bother me one bit. In fact I don't care what anyone here thinks of certain aspects of the game. Why? It has zero effect on how I personally experience it. That's all that matters here.
Sure, I dislike things to. But I live with it. Going into high school-like cliques bc something doesn't jive with you is rather immature. If someone playing with your example of AFR cards bothers you that much, and you want to table flip and storm off in a tantrum, then maybe you should give yourself a check. I wouldn't want to play with someone who exhibits toxic privilege like you do anyway.
As you were.
EDIT:
Is it just me or does Animatou look a bit...older...than the last time we saw her on a card?
'buster
HR Analyst. Gamer. Activist | Fearless, and forthright | Aggro-control is a mindset.
Elspeth and Jhoira rock my world.
There's an answer for ya in the WotC page.
They flat out say the Jumpstart packs are replacing theme boosters. Probably the easiest way to actually get them to sell, because they'll once again have exclusive cards. And the Jumpstart unique cards likely won't be found in Set or Collector Boosters, so there'll be another product for people to try and grab in order to get the mechanically unique cards.
Thank you for sharing, I did not see that article.
Now this begs the question will they all be Dominaria United cards in the Jumpstart "decks" or will it be a mix and match. My curiosity is piqued.
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
See, this is exactly the kind of attitude I have a problem with as far as this thread is concerned. People come into this thread saying "I don't like this." and suddenly they are being accused to being childish, of being gatekeepers and throwing tantrums. As I said before, people are allowed to like things. People are allowed to dislike things. This goes for both sides. But what is not okay is to then attack the people behind those opinions and try to misrepresent their posts and actions just so you can come across as superior.
Cliques? Table flips? Tantrums? I never did any of these. And nothing I said imply I would do these things.
All the cards but 1 in the pact are from the main set, but 1 card per pack is a unique to Dominaria United packs, they can't be found in other products.
I will also note that future premiere sets will also get tneir own versions of Jumpstart, so you can expect Jumpstart Brothers War this hear too.
I normally don't participate in such discussions because I don't see any value. Just wanted to notice that the message earlier in this thread was not: "I don't like this." it was "I hate that others will buy this garbage." and that is the difference. Because what I buy should not be your or anybody else concern. You don't like the UB stuff? Okay I guess. The funny part is that everybody is complaining about the shear amount of products wotc is releasing. So just pass the products that aren't for you. If you dislike that others are playing those cards or that you have to play with/against somebody using those cards than you are in the wrong in my opinion.
I didn't know that. Thanks for the information. I thought that there were like 8 other factions and that they could choose another one more fitting for a Green/White deck instead of having 3 of 4 decks having black or blue.
The jumpstart product will have unique cards? Oh well. I hope that jumpstart will be popular so the singles aren't that expensive.
Equiparating Arabian Nights and P3K as color pie breaks in Magic it's the point you have to prove, not to assume. I don't recall WotC ever said Arabian Nights or P3K are errors that should had never existed in the game, like they say that green can't straight up kill creatures or red deal with enchantments. So, until you are able to prove otherwise, they are a completely legits precedents that prove that actually doing other IP stuff has always been part of Magic, even if very infrequently, and that doing it more its just doing more frequently something that was never forbidden in the first place (and I made to the other guy the fitting example of "phasing out" permanents, which is also a very old mechanic that appeared in the past for only in very few sets, but that unlike banding or other true mistake mechanics, WotC actually recently discovered a way to make them playable, elegant and non-confusing to players even inside modern sets and new cards of current design era).
But I'm not going to bother any longer because regardless of what I write here, people are just going to handwave it all with "the game changes, deal with it."
You say that doing 3rd party IPs and allowing color pie breaks are very different, but they're really not. They're arbitrary things that Wizards has decided on. If everything goes, why don't allow enchantment destruction in red? After all, there would be people who would like it, and buy the cards! From what I've gathered in these threads, those two things alone are enough to justify everything and anything and label people who disagree as gatekeepers.
-Irini Sengir
Finally a good white villain quote: "So, do I ever re-evaluate my life choices? Never, because I know what I'm doing is a righteous cause."
Factions: Sleeping
Remnants: Valheim
Legendary Journey: Heroes & Planeswalkers
Saga: Shards of Rabiah
Legends: The Elder Dragons
Read up on Red Flags & NWO