I'm sorry but this rethoric won't work and anybody that see clearly all your interventions (in both this topic, the Black Lives Matter one, etc.) will take their own conclusion in all the full context, as you say. I am one of those "woke that infect and corrupt companies and then cause them to fail". It's ok it's your opinion, I respect that. Just don't be so hypocritical about it. Have a nice day.
Blarby blarby blarby.
But pointing out shady marketing strategies using fomo (fear of missing out) to get panic buyers to get the product.
Smart marketers know there are niche market segments and cater products and services to that particular group. It's a fundamental of capitalism.
The difference here is that it's supporting a cause rather than 100% towards the bottom line.
'buster
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'buster
HR Analyst. Gamer. Activist | Fearless, and forthright | Aggro-control is a mindset. Elspeth and Jhoira rock my world.
This is a super revealing comment. What specifically on this version of Bearscape is too sexual for Magic?
Look at the background, its exactly the same as in the Chandra-Lilliana playmat i posted in the spoiler tag in the comment.
The two people in the background are not embracing. One is prone, one is sitting. Chandra's ass is bare, her legs are spread, and Lilianna is caressing her face. This guy's not wearing a shirt, sure, but... I really don't see the comparison here. If these are comparable to you, I wonder how you feel about other mtg arts with shirtless men.
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Latest proof this forum is a trashfire:
Your authoritarianism will be the reason the company suffers another 60M in losses.
We, who does support inclusivity in any form for the things we love are an "infection" for this guy. But of course, we are the ones intolerant. Logic.
Also, this guy doesn't seem to post a lot here, but if you check his brief history half of them are exactly about spreading his personal view of "tolerance" and "respect" in exactly these kind of topics. What a dedication to the cause.
I have nothing more to add your honor.
pointing out that the woke infect and corrupt companies and then cause them to fail and your attempt to take it our of context says more about you than me
We, who does support inclusivity in any form for the things we love are an "infection" for this guy. But of course, we are the ones intolerant. Logic.
Also, this guy doesn't seem to post a lot here, but if you check his brief history half of them are exactly about spreading his personal view of "tolerance" and "respect" in exactly these kind of topics. What a dedication to the cause.
I have nothing more to add your honor.
pointing out that the woke infect and corrupt companies and then cause them to fail and your attempt to take it our of context says more about you than me
Go to hell, piece of *****.
You win this hands down *applause*
'buster
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'buster
HR Analyst. Gamer. Activist | Fearless, and forthright | Aggro-control is a mindset. Elspeth and Jhoira rock my world.
This is a super revealing comment. What specifically on this version of Bearscape is too sexual for Magic?
Look at the background, its exactly the same as in the Chandra-Lilliana playmat i posted in the spoiler tag in the comment.
And that playmat was on several occasions not tournament legal as its "not appropriate" (so if that is true for 2 women, it should be true for 2 dudes as well, and equally so for a hetero couple, or any other, as thats the point i want to make with the having equal standards and not pander to one while the other is somehow not appropriate, they either are all fine, or non of them is, and WotC policy does not properly work that out, but throw the issues at the discretion of judges at a tournament, and as these are "legal" cards otherwise, it becomes quite a mess to deal with).
Calling those the same is a pretty big stretch. First off, the focus of the Bearscape art is wider and the mood more "relaxing summer afternoon" than "foreplay," second, while the one guy's pose in the background could be considered seductive, they're clearly just talking, the other guy's not between his legs like Liliana.
We, who does support inclusivity in any form for the things we love are an "infection" for this guy. But of course, we are the ones intolerant. Logic.
Also, this guy doesn't seem to post a lot here, but if you check his brief history half of them are exactly about spreading his personal view of "tolerance" and "respect" in exactly these kind of topics. What a dedication to the cause.
I have nothing more to add your honor.
pointing out that the woke infect and corrupt companies and then cause them to fail and your attempt to take it our of context says more about you than me
Go to hell, piece of *****.
You win this hands down *applause*
'buster
I just don't feel like being civil to people who intentionally misunderstanding civility. Why pretend to explain things to the intentionally ignorant? Just tell them to **** off, and then watch them be crybabies about how that isn't how they feel entitled to be spoken to.
We, who does support inclusivity in any form for the things we love are an "infection" for this guy. But of course, we are the ones intolerant. Logic.
Also, this guy doesn't seem to post a lot here, but if you check his brief history half of them are exactly about spreading his personal view of "tolerance" and "respect" in exactly these kind of topics. What a dedication to the cause.
I have nothing more to add your honor.
pointing out that the woke infect and corrupt companies and then cause them to fail and your attempt to take it our of context says more about you than me
Go to hell, piece of *****.
You win this hands down *applause*
'buster
I just don't feel like being civil to people who intentionally misunderstanding civility. Why pretend to explain things to the intentionally ignorant? Just tell them to **** off, and then watch them be crybabies about how that isn't how they feel entitled to be spoken to.
Oh I fully understand and appreciate that. I wasn't mocking you in any way.
'buster
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'buster
HR Analyst. Gamer. Activist | Fearless, and forthright | Aggro-control is a mindset. Elspeth and Jhoira rock my world.
pointing out that the woke infect and corrupt companies and then cause them to fail and your attempt to take it our of context says more about you than me
Go to hell, piece of *****.
You win this hands down *applause*
'buster
I just don't feel like being civil to people who intentionally misunderstanding civility. Why pretend to explain things to the intentionally ignorant? Just tell them to **** off, and then watch them be crybabies about how that isn't how they feel entitled to be spoken to.
Oh I fully understand and appreciate that. I wasn't mocking you in any way.
'buster
I know lol
Still can't wait to have some useless mod come tell me to chill. Lmao
This is a super revealing comment. What specifically on this version of Bearscape is too sexual for Magic?
Look at the background, its exactly the same as in the Chandra-Lilliana playmat i posted in the spoiler tag in the comment.
And that playmat was on several occasions not tournament legal as its "not appropriate" (so if that is true for 2 women, it should be true for 2 dudes as well, and equally so for a hetero couple, or any other, as thats the point i want to make with the having equal standards and not pander to one while the other is somehow not appropriate, they either are all fine, or non of them is, and WotC policy does not properly work that out, but throw the issues at the discretion of judges at a tournament, and as these are "legal" cards otherwise, it becomes quite a mess to deal with).
How many of your parents are siblings? Were all of their children stillborn?
Calling those the same is a pretty big stretch. First off, the focus of the Bearscape art is wider and the mood more "relaxing summer afternoon" than "foreplay," second, while the one guy's pose in the background could be considered seductive, they're clearly just talking, the other guy's not between his legs like Liliana.
Its a "very minor" difference if any at all.
So yea, its quite arguably the same problem.
For consistency they would avoid that kind of artwork on Magic cards (i mean, Bearscape would work without the background sexual parts, the dude and the joke of "harry men = bear" would be fine, even if that will upset some people, like any other supposedly funny comparison of people to animals, which even lead to cards art being banned from the game entirely, so its a hot top regardless, just depends which group of people you pander to or make fun of, could just avoid doing it in the first place).
Wait there are still people offended by this? Well all three of them can enjoy being offended.
The rest of us will either think this is adorable and wholesome, or just not care. Culture has moved on from this being a big deal.
Who even has the energy to get offended over stuff like this anymore? "Urgh, how dare those people be depicted enjoying their lives?! Why back in my day, everybody pretended queer folk didn't exist, and it was great! Let's just go back to pretending!"
It's 10 years too late for this to be a real controversy. There are probably ten times more queer people playing magic than there are people who are truly made uncomfortable with depictions of queer people. If that's your battle, you lost a long time ago.
Calling those the same is a pretty big stretch. First off, the focus of the Bearscape art is wider and the mood more "relaxing summer afternoon" than "foreplay," second, while the one guy's pose in the background could be considered seductive, they're clearly just talking, the other guy's not between his legs like Liliana.
Its a "very minor" difference if any at all.
So yea, its quite arguably the same problem.
For consistency they would avoid that kind of artwork on Magic cards (i mean, Bearscape would work without the background sexual parts, the dude and the joke of "harry men = bear" would be fine, even if that will upset some people, like any other supposedly funny comparison of people to animals, which even lead to cards art being banned from the game entirely, so its a hot top regardless, just depends which group of people you pander to or make fun of, could just avoid doing it in the first place).
There is nothing sexual in the background. Just admit you find the characters sexy and grow the **** up, loser.
Calling those the same is a pretty big stretch. First off, the focus of the Bearscape art is wider and the mood more "relaxing summer afternoon" than "foreplay," second, while the one guy's pose in the background could be considered seductive, they're clearly just talking, the other guy's not between his legs like Liliana.
Its a "very minor" difference if any at all.
So yea, its quite arguably the same problem.
For consistency they would avoid that kind of artwork on Magic cards (i mean, Bearscape would work without the background sexual parts, the dude and the joke of "harry men = bear" would be fine, even if that will upset some people, like any other supposedly funny comparison of people to animals, which even lead to cards art being banned from the game entirely, so its a hot top regardless, just depends which group of people you pander to or make fun of, could just avoid doing it in the first place).
It's okay to admit you got a boner from it man. Completely natural. Erase the layering the church has imbued you with.
And besides, it speaks to a demographic that makes up a large (!) component of the MTG player base whether queer or otherwise.
We've all seen shirtless barbarians hacking and slaying, but I gotta admit a bunch of guys in speedos caressing each other feels a bit like the Chandra Liliana art, or like some covers you see in certain adult comic websites. Even if I were gay, I would prefer not to have Pixiv search results for "bara" tag in MTG. Rest is fine, especially Savor the Moment.
I think I've learned to treat Magic cards like baseball cards: keep 'em in a binder in numerical order, don't play with 'em, try to finish the set and just keep my head down.
Comment from mark himself, just that you get an idea.
That's Mark telling you that he doesn't want you to play. I'm all for any actions Wizards takes to exclude scumbags from the community. Toodles, loser.
Comment from mark himself, just that you get an idea.
Let's see here...removal of hurtful symbology and imagery that segregates marginalized peoples is reasonable. Images that portray "sexualized" nature--in this case the so-called hedonistic visuals of hairy men being romantic in a non-sexual manner--is only a bother to those who are sexually repressed. And sexual repression is a huge factor in the church, given the number of molestations of minors by clergy and other suppression tactics on women and other men in the name of pure celibacy.
And it's a 13+ game.
So yeah. Take your pick.
'buster
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'buster
HR Analyst. Gamer. Activist | Fearless, and forthright | Aggro-control is a mindset. Elspeth and Jhoira rock my world.
Let's see here...removal of hurtful symbology and imagery that segregates marginalized peoples is reasonable. Images that portray "sexualized" nature--in this case the so-called hedonistic visuals of hairy men being romantic in a non-sexual manner--is only a bother to those who are sexually repressed. And sexual repression is a huge factor in the church, given the number of molestations of minors by clergy and other suppression tactics on women and other men in the name of pure celibacy.
And it's a 13+ game.
So yeah. Take your pick.
'buster
What are you even talking about.
You project pretty hard here.
At some point, take your straw man and let it be.
If anything its about "consistency" and having a clearly defined guideline how WotC is going to handle this kind of art.
It has absolutely nothing to do with any of you stated here.
And if they are not consistent, someone will point it out, and rightfully so.
Let's see here...removal of hurtful symbology and imagery that segregates marginalized peoples is reasonable. Images that portray "sexualized" nature--in this case the so-called hedonistic visuals of hairy men being romantic in a non-sexual manner--is only a bother to those who are sexually repressed. And sexual repression is a huge factor in the church, given the number of molestations of minors by clergy and other suppression tactics on women and other men in the name of pure celibacy.
And it's a 13+ game.
So yeah. Take your pick.
'buster
What are you even talking about.
You project pretty hard here.
At some point, take your straw man and let it be.
If anything its about "consistency" and having a clearly defined guideline how WotC is going to handle this kind of art.
It has absolutely nothing to do with any of you stated here.
And if they are not consistent, someone will point it out, and rightfully so.
The world is an oblate spheroid.
The standards are clearly being laid out as demonstrated by actions within the past couple of years. It's not too hard to witness it's being more liberal in terms of representation and how it's portrayed. Things evolve. Apparently some people choose not to.
'buster
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'buster
HR Analyst. Gamer. Activist | Fearless, and forthright | Aggro-control is a mindset. Elspeth and Jhoira rock my world.
Comment from mark himself, just that you get an idea.
I'm a little confused by your argument here. Earlier it seemed you were suggesting that the art is overtly sexual like the Chandra/Liliana art, which most people seemed to strongly disagree with. And now you're pointing to this four year old Blogatog post which, if anything, seems to hurt your argument.
If Wizards is making a conscious effort to move away from art that would make a subset of players feel uncomfortable and they are printing a card with this art, then it seems to me that suggests they don't believe this art would make people feel uncomfortable. Likely because they don't see it as overtly sexual.
I'm a little confused by your argument here. Earlier it seemed you were suggesting that the art is overtly sexual like the Chandra/Liliana art, which most people seemed to strongly disagree with. And now you're pointing to this four year old Blogatog post which, if anything, seems to hurt your argument.
If Wizards is making a conscious effort to move away from art that would make a subset of players feel uncomfortable and they are printing a card with this art, then it seems to me that suggests they don't believe this art would make people feel uncomfortable. Likely because they don't see it as overtly sexual.
Their are people for and against it. I want WotC to have at least some kind of consistency in their art-policy and not flip/flop around, depending on what they want to pander to.
The kind of quality control that goes into Secret Lair is a lot less (so artists get more "freedom" to decide, they probably dont censor it as much as they do on Magic cards, and a lot of them are censored in the process of making them, its a lot of cleavage thats covered up on art, and some changes for other markets, like China that dont want human skulls, so they often avoid that from the get go, rather than making new art just for the chinese language version of the card, which they otherwise often did as well).
Consistency is the matter at hand.
The mark post makes clear that they wanted to drastically reduce potential sexual depictions on card art, as they got complains.
Here they abandoned that, and they already get the heat for it (clearly not as much in this thread, but there are vocal people about it that welcome the pandering, and nobody insults them and they are fine to like the product, as are people to critique the product).
Do you ever notice that those "alternative, free thinker, brave dissidents, innocent martyrs from the SJW police", that call the "Magic: the Pandering" actually NEVER shows up in threads that are conceptually identical to this, but just doesn't pick a minority that is actually persecuted (not today at least finally)? Like the Secret Lair dedicated to the left-handed people: https://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/magic-fundamentals/the-rumor-mill/825993-sld-april-fools-secret-lair-finally-left-handed
But, god forbid is we actually give any kind of visibility and sign of inclusivity of people that are actually hated and discriminated for just being born in a certain way (like LGBT or BIPOC people)? I know it sounds absurd but it's almost like that all this discrimination and resentment against those minorities could actually confirm and self-explains why those same minorities are target of discrimination and resentment in society for still (too) many people. What a curious coincidence huh?
I would also like to point out that this is a limited run promo product, not a standard-issue set. So yes, art styles may differ from their conventional forms as a way to spur interest and sales.
That said, it is in no way similar to the scale of the Liliana/Chandra playmat which, I will say, was commissioned by artist Steve Argyle for a particular cause/awareness, and not by WOTC itself. Fan service is a thing. And that was 10 years ago.
Very different standards. Very easy to understand.
'buster
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'buster
HR Analyst. Gamer. Activist | Fearless, and forthright | Aggro-control is a mindset. Elspeth and Jhoira rock my world.
But, god forbid is we actually give also visibility and sign of inclusivity of people that are actually hated and discriminated for just being born in a certain way (like LGBT or BIPOC people)? I know it sounds absurd but it's almost like that all this discrimination and resentment against those minorities could actually confirm and self-explains why those same minorities are target of discrimination and resentment in society for still (too) many people. What a curious coincidence huh?
Its a silly April Fools joke, people took it as the joke it is.
In the lefty (as in left-handed) art they didnt do sexual implicit content, they followed a proper "left handed" art gimmick.
Here they pull the sexualized art, which gets critique ALL THE TIME, not just now.
And right here, its not even a tremendous BAD reception or critique in this thread.
Its Pandering for donations and a group of people that are easily rallied like is clearly visible.
And some people get triggered by literally nothing to a serious degree thats not healthy for them.
----
So its important to not give in to the seeming urge to direct insults, as a bunch of people do here.
Its fine if people like this product with a passion, and its fine if people critique it for whatever reason, and its fine as long as that is discussed in a reasonable polite manner (as it easily slips in politics in these topics, while its not related to any politics at all, its this product, its artwork and the pandering for donations, which has certain political implications, but thats not a topic to discuss in this forum).
Smart marketers know there are niche market segments and cater products and services to that particular group. It's a fundamental of capitalism.
The difference here is that it's supporting a cause rather than 100% towards the bottom line.
'buster
HR Analyst. Gamer. Activist | Fearless, and forthright | Aggro-control is a mindset.
Elspeth and Jhoira rock my world.
The two people in the background are not embracing. One is prone, one is sitting. Chandra's ass is bare, her legs are spread, and Lilianna is caressing her face. This guy's not wearing a shirt, sure, but... I really don't see the comparison here. If these are comparable to you, I wonder how you feel about other mtg arts with shirtless men.
Go to hell, piece of *****.
You win this hands down *applause*
'buster
HR Analyst. Gamer. Activist | Fearless, and forthright | Aggro-control is a mindset.
Elspeth and Jhoira rock my world.
Calling those the same is a pretty big stretch. First off, the focus of the Bearscape art is wider and the mood more "relaxing summer afternoon" than "foreplay," second, while the one guy's pose in the background could be considered seductive, they're clearly just talking, the other guy's not between his legs like Liliana.
I just don't feel like being civil to people who intentionally misunderstanding civility. Why pretend to explain things to the intentionally ignorant? Just tell them to **** off, and then watch them be crybabies about how that isn't how they feel entitled to be spoken to.
Oh I fully understand and appreciate that. I wasn't mocking you in any way.
'buster
HR Analyst. Gamer. Activist | Fearless, and forthright | Aggro-control is a mindset.
Elspeth and Jhoira rock my world.
I know lol
Still can't wait to have some useless mod come tell me to chill. Lmao
How many of your parents are siblings? Were all of their children stillborn?
Its a "very minor" difference if any at all.
So yea, its quite arguably the same problem.
For consistency they would avoid that kind of artwork on Magic cards (i mean, Bearscape would work without the background sexual parts, the dude and the joke of "harry men = bear" would be fine, even if that will upset some people, like any other supposedly funny comparison of people to animals, which even lead to cards art being banned from the game entirely, so its a hot top regardless, just depends which group of people you pander to or make fun of, could just avoid doing it in the first place).
WUBRG#BlackLotusMatterWUBRG
👮👮👮 #BlueLivesMatter 👮👮👮
The rest of us will either think this is adorable and wholesome, or just not care. Culture has moved on from this being a big deal.
Who even has the energy to get offended over stuff like this anymore? "Urgh, how dare those people be depicted enjoying their lives?! Why back in my day, everybody pretended queer folk didn't exist, and it was great! Let's just go back to pretending!"
It's 10 years too late for this to be a real controversy. There are probably ten times more queer people playing magic than there are people who are truly made uncomfortable with depictions of queer people. If that's your battle, you lost a long time ago.
Low-power cube enthusiast!
My 1570 card cube (no longer updated)
My 415 Peasant+ Artifact and Enchantment Cube
Ever-Expanding "Just throw it in" cube.
There is nothing sexual in the background. Just admit you find the characters sexy and grow the **** up, loser.
It's okay to admit you got a boner from it man. Completely natural. Erase the layering the church has imbued you with.
And besides, it speaks to a demographic that makes up a large (!) component of the MTG player base whether queer or otherwise.
Now go twiddle your bone flute like a good repressed Christian boy.
'buster
HR Analyst. Gamer. Activist | Fearless, and forthright | Aggro-control is a mindset.
Elspeth and Jhoira rock my world.
Comment from mark himself, just that you get an idea.
WUBRG#BlackLotusMatterWUBRG
👮👮👮 #BlueLivesMatter 👮👮👮
That's Mark telling you that he doesn't want you to play. I'm all for any actions Wizards takes to exclude scumbags from the community. Toodles, loser.
Let's see here...removal of hurtful symbology and imagery that segregates marginalized peoples is reasonable. Images that portray "sexualized" nature--in this case the so-called hedonistic visuals of hairy men being romantic in a non-sexual manner--is only a bother to those who are sexually repressed. And sexual repression is a huge factor in the church, given the number of molestations of minors by clergy and other suppression tactics on women and other men in the name of pure celibacy.
And it's a 13+ game.
So yeah. Take your pick.
'buster
HR Analyst. Gamer. Activist | Fearless, and forthright | Aggro-control is a mindset.
Elspeth and Jhoira rock my world.
What are you even talking about.
You project pretty hard here.
At some point, take your straw man and let it be.
If anything its about "consistency" and having a clearly defined guideline how WotC is going to handle this kind of art.
It has absolutely nothing to do with any of you stated here.
And if they are not consistent, someone will point it out, and rightfully so.
WUBRG#BlackLotusMatterWUBRG
👮👮👮 #BlueLivesMatter 👮👮👮
The world is an oblate spheroid.
The standards are clearly being laid out as demonstrated by actions within the past couple of years. It's not too hard to witness it's being more liberal in terms of representation and how it's portrayed. Things evolve. Apparently some people choose not to.
'buster
HR Analyst. Gamer. Activist | Fearless, and forthright | Aggro-control is a mindset.
Elspeth and Jhoira rock my world.
I'm a little confused by your argument here. Earlier it seemed you were suggesting that the art is overtly sexual like the Chandra/Liliana art, which most people seemed to strongly disagree with. And now you're pointing to this four year old Blogatog post which, if anything, seems to hurt your argument.
If Wizards is making a conscious effort to move away from art that would make a subset of players feel uncomfortable and they are printing a card with this art, then it seems to me that suggests they don't believe this art would make people feel uncomfortable. Likely because they don't see it as overtly sexual.
Their are people for and against it. I want WotC to have at least some kind of consistency in their art-policy and not flip/flop around, depending on what they want to pander to.
The kind of quality control that goes into Secret Lair is a lot less (so artists get more "freedom" to decide, they probably dont censor it as much as they do on Magic cards, and a lot of them are censored in the process of making them, its a lot of cleavage thats covered up on art, and some changes for other markets, like China that dont want human skulls, so they often avoid that from the get go, rather than making new art just for the chinese language version of the card, which they otherwise often did as well).
Consistency is the matter at hand.
The mark post makes clear that they wanted to drastically reduce potential sexual depictions on card art, as they got complains.
Here they abandoned that, and they already get the heat for it (clearly not as much in this thread, but there are vocal people about it that welcome the pandering, and nobody insults them and they are fine to like the product, as are people to critique the product).
----
Gathering Throng , art got the "usual" cover up of female cleavage.
Original version:
https://www.artstation.com/artwork/4X3Qz8
That happens quite a lot.
WUBRG#BlackLotusMatterWUBRG
👮👮👮 #BlueLivesMatter 👮👮👮
https://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/magic-fundamentals/the-rumor-mill/825993-sld-april-fools-secret-lair-finally-left-handed
But, god forbid is we actually give any kind of visibility and sign of inclusivity of people that are actually hated and discriminated for just being born in a certain way (like LGBT or BIPOC people)? I know it sounds absurd but it's almost like that all this discrimination and resentment against those minorities could actually confirm and self-explains why those same minorities are target of discrimination and resentment in society for still (too) many people. What a curious coincidence huh?
That said, it is in no way similar to the scale of the Liliana/Chandra playmat which, I will say, was commissioned by artist Steve Argyle for a particular cause/awareness, and not by WOTC itself. Fan service is a thing. And that was 10 years ago.
Very different standards. Very easy to understand.
'buster
HR Analyst. Gamer. Activist | Fearless, and forthright | Aggro-control is a mindset.
Elspeth and Jhoira rock my world.
Its a silly April Fools joke, people took it as the joke it is.
In the lefty (as in left-handed) art they didnt do sexual implicit content, they followed a proper "left handed" art gimmick.
Here they pull the sexualized art, which gets critique ALL THE TIME, not just now.
And right here, its not even a tremendous BAD reception or critique in this thread.
Its Pandering for donations and a group of people that are easily rallied like is clearly visible.
And some people get triggered by literally nothing to a serious degree thats not healthy for them.
----
So its important to not give in to the seeming urge to direct insults, as a bunch of people do here.
Its fine if people like this product with a passion, and its fine if people critique it for whatever reason, and its fine as long as that is discussed in a reasonable polite manner (as it easily slips in politics in these topics, while its not related to any politics at all, its this product, its artwork and the pandering for donations, which has certain political implications, but thats not a topic to discuss in this forum).
WUBRG#BlackLotusMatterWUBRG
👮👮👮 #BlueLivesMatter 👮👮👮