Making nonland cards gates would mess with the rules in weird ways. Traveler's Cloak is perfectly capable of giving a creature gatewalk, for instance. If gate were used on wall creatures, suddenly changelings are gates, which really messes with the balance on gate synergy cards. Adding it as an artifact type might not immediately break anything, but I expect they still want to avoid that for the sake of "choose a land type" cards and the fact that anything they put it on will be tutorable to the battlefield with Maze's End.
idk man, rules get amended all the time. with every single new product release even. i'm not saying its a sure thing, i'm saying you can't rule stuff out based on illegally leaked partial information, and that maybe we need to just calm down until official stuff starts coming down the pipe.
i mean, luxior didn't even work as intended until the rules update, and that set comes out this week.
plus enchantments are a thing that's been given a lot more design space recently too... so...
we can't know what we don't know, but we do know there's a gate theme on some of the cards in the set. from that we can posit that there are gates in the set in order to make that mechanic work. especially as this is a draftable set. and that's... kind of it for now.
so throwing up our hands and ranting and raving that there aren't enough gates here really should be that moment where we take a step back and say maybe we need to take a break to gain some perspective for a minute before saying that wotc cant even design their own game.
I am not sure when but I remember that Mark Rosewater said in multiple answers that Dryad Arbor was problematic. This doesn't mean that they couldn't make more cards like it or to find some way to clean it up. But I believe he wrote something like "Making that card was a mistake". So I believe something like a Land-Creature will be unlikely.
Making nonland cards gates would mess with the rules in weird ways. Traveler's Cloak is perfectly capable of giving a creature gatewalk, for instance. If gate were used on wall creatures, suddenly changelings are gates, which really messes with the balance on gate synergy cards. Adding it as an artifact type might not immediately break anything, but I expect they still want to avoid that for the sake of "choose a land type" cards and the fact that anything they put it on will be tutorable to the battlefield with Maze's End.
idk man, rules get amended all the time. with every single new product release even. i'm not saying its a sure thing, i'm saying you can't rule stuff out based on illegally leaked partial information, and that maybe we need to just calm down until official stuff starts coming down the pipe.
i mean, luxior didn't even work as intended until the rules update, and that set comes out this week.
plus enchantments are a thing that's been given a lot more design space recently too... so...
we can't know what we don't know, but we do know there's a gate theme on some of the cards in the set. from that we can posit that there are gates in the set in order to make that mechanic work. especially as this is a draftable set. and that's... kind of it for now.
so throwing up our hands and ranting and raving that there aren't enough gates here really should be that moment where we take a step back and say maybe we need to take a break to gain some perspective for a minute before saying that wotc cant even design their own game.
Making nonland cards gates would mess with the rules in weird ways. Traveler's Cloak is perfectly capable of giving a creature gatewalk, for instance. If gate were used on wall creatures, suddenly changelings are gates, which really messes with the balance on gate synergy cards. Adding it as an artifact type might not immediately break anything, but I expect they still want to avoid that for the sake of "choose a land type" cards and the fact that anything they put it on will be tutorable to the battlefield with Maze's End.
idk man, rules get amended all the time. with every single new product release even. i'm not saying its a sure thing, i'm saying you can't rule stuff out based on illegally leaked partial information, and that maybe we need to just calm down until official stuff starts coming down the pipe.
i mean, luxior didn't even work as intended until the rules update, and that set comes out this week.
plus enchantments are a thing that's been given a lot more design space recently too... so...
we can't know what we don't know, but we do know there's a gate theme on some of the cards in the set. from that we can posit that there are gates in the set in order to make that mechanic work. especially as this is a draftable set. and that's... kind of it for now.
so throwing up our hands and ranting and raving that there aren't enough gates here really should be that moment where we take a step back and say maybe we need to take a break to gain some perspective for a minute before saying that wotc cant even design their own game.
Updating a rule for one card is different than sharing subtypes between card types. Currently the only two cases of this are instants/ sorceries, and creatures/ tribal. They aren't going to make a new card type to meaninglessly give a few card a a typw that doesn't make any sense, and adds no design space. We will get gates, they will be lands. Because they know how to make their own game, they will not be adding gate to other card types.
So I just realized that there’s a Baba Lysaga card so that means we are going to have a Strahd card right? As far as lore goes I’ve only read stuff about Ravenloft. Is there precedent for the Baldurs Gate storyline intertwining with Strahd? I’ve tried looking online on my lunch break but haven’t had success lol
One of the party members is a vampire and there's already hints of some vampirey storyline for him. Hard to say exactly given how thoroughly not done the game is but I wouldn't be shocked at all.
So I just realized that there’s a Baba Lysaga card so that means we are going to have a Strahd card right? As far as lore goes I’ve only read stuff about Ravenloft. Is there precedent for the Baldurs Gate storyline intertwining with Strahd? I’ve tried looking online on my lunch break but haven’t had success lol
One of the party members is a vampire and there's already hints of some vampirey storyline for him. Hard to say exactly given how thoroughly not done the game is but I wouldn't be shocked at all.
It would make me extremely happy lol Is that character from the third game? The third game is still in development isn’t it?
On the gate subject do you think they’d bring in fortifications for this set? Maybe there’d be a cycle that give the gate type? If they didn’t want to explore gates they could have enchantments that make them gates. I feel that they should have made her five color or five color identity.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Embrace the dark you call a home,
Gaze upon an empty, white throne
A legacy of lies,
A familiar disguise
Sing with me a song of conquest and fate
The black pillar cracks beneath its weight
Night breaks through the day, hard as a stone
Lost in thoughts all alone
So I just realized that there’s a Baba Lysaga card so that means we are going to have a Strahd card right? As far as lore goes I’ve only read stuff about Ravenloft. Is there precedent for the Baldurs Gate storyline intertwining with Strahd? I’ve tried looking online on my lunch break but haven’t had success lol
One of the party members is a vampire and there's already hints of some vampirey storyline for him. Hard to say exactly given how thoroughly not done the game is but I wouldn't be shocked at all.
It would make me extremely happy lol Is that character from the third game? The third game is still in development isn’t it?
Yeah, Asterion. Some folks were mentioning that his card leaked but I didn't see it on there. It seems like the whole main cast from BG3 is going to be in, though. I am still wondering if the set will spoil anything story-wise.
Right now BG3 is pretty playable! and has a pretty big map! But the story quests end before you actually reach baldur's gate (the city) and the level caps out at level 4. They did do a whole section of underdark, which is super cool imo and hopefully that means we'll see the shadowlands too. And the hells. Honestly they built a really tight gameplay platform, all it needs now is more content.
i·ll say it
Wizards of the Coast is doing a *****e job
Hasbro is stepping on their product for Disney and it·s clear that the complexity level has spiked ever since Zendikar Rising
they pandered to Mammon for way too long and now it·s eating them alive
i·ll say it
Wizards of the Coast is doing a *****e job
Hasbro is stepping on their product for Disney and it·s clear that the complexity level has spiked ever since Zendikar Rising
they pandered to Mammon for way too long and now it·s eating them alive
205.3i.Lands have their own unique set of subtypes; these subtypes are called land types. The land types are Desert, Forest, Gate, Island, Lair, Locus, Mine, Mountain, Plains, Power-Plant, Swamp, Tower, and Urza's. Of that list, Forest, Island, Mountain, Plains, and Swamp are the basic land types. See rule 305.6.
Also of interest to you - since it metions a creature that also has a land type - might be
205.3c. If a card with multiple card types has one or more subtypes, each subtype is correlated to its appropriate card type. Example:Dryad Arbor's type line says "Land Creature -- Forest Dryad." Forest is a land type, and Dryad is a creature type.
The combination of these should make it apparent that Dryad Arbor can be a Forest only because it is a land creature rather than a nonland creature. Since Gate is also a land type it also requires the card to be a land.
This is, as another very illustrative example, the reason Urza's Saga is - and had to be - an enchantment land. You'll notice in the above list of land types Urza's. That type line was not an arbitrary choice, but a consequence of the what the rules dictate. I want to put extra special emphasis on the fact that Urza's (as opposed to Forest) has no inherent rules meaning; it does "nothing special".
and that with Equipment they stop being creatures while equipped (as that was a mostly niche rule that few came across.)
You seem to misunderstand something about Equipment artifact creatures with reconfigure. What you describe is not an inherent trait of Equipment, but a trait of the keyword reconfigure. You understandably mix these two concepts up, because no card that inherently is an Equipment artifact creature comes without reconfigure (IIRC), but you might be aware (or able to find out by asking a Judge/Rules Guru in the appropriate forum) that animated Equipment actually usually (i. e. without that keyword) does the opposite in the same scenario: It stays a creature, but then falls off the equipped creature as SBA.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Planar Chaos was not a mistake neither was it random. You might want to look at it again.
[thread=239793][Game] Level Up - Creature[/thread]
idk man, rules get amended all the time. with every single new product release even. i'm not saying its a sure thing, i'm saying you can't rule stuff out based on illegally leaked partial information, and that maybe we need to just calm down until official stuff starts coming down the pipe.
i mean, luxior didn't even work as intended until the rules update, and that set comes out this week.
plus enchantments are a thing that's been given a lot more design space recently too... so...
we can't know what we don't know, but we do know there's a gate theme on some of the cards in the set. from that we can posit that there are gates in the set in order to make that mechanic work. especially as this is a draftable set. and that's... kind of it for now.
so throwing up our hands and ranting and raving that there aren't enough gates here really should be that moment where we take a step back and say maybe we need to take a break to gain some perspective for a minute before saying that wotc cant even design their own game.
Luxior, Giada's Gift is reasonably intuitive and doesn't break anything with the rules change required. Putting land types on nonlands creates a godawful, unintuitive mess that's pretty easily avoided.
To be clear, I am not saying there is some kind of horrible mistake on WotC's part, you don't need nonland gates to make Nine-Fingers or any other possible gate cards word.
There are at least 3 common gates in Nine-Fingers' colors, possibly as many as 7. Assuming a pack construction like the original Commander Legends, each draft pool of 8 players will have about 7 of those 3 and depending on rarity, up to about 9 of the other 4. This makes assembling the 9 lands for Nine-Fingers difficult, but far from impossible.
There are other, perfectly reasonable ways the count could be higher than that as well: There could be a land slot (or even a gate slot, for that matter), Gateway Plaza could also be in the set, or there could be cards that turn lands into gates as someone mentioned previously.
There are at least 3 common gates in Nine-Fingers' colors, possibly as many as 7. Assuming a pack construction like the original Commander Legends, each draft pool of 8 players will have about 7 of those 3 and depending on rarity, up to about 9 of the other 4. This makes assembling the 9 lands for Nine-Fingers difficult, but far from impossible.
To be fair, I think the more reasonable complaint was about Constructed. And while this set is meant for Draft, it would be an oversight worthy of some noise if they didn't make certain the card worked in Constructed Commander as well. We know in its colors there are three pre-existing two-color Gates (Golgari Guildgate plus two) as well as the afore-mentioned Gateway Plaza and we can expect three members of the Citadel Gate cycle. That's seven legal cards for a possible Constructed Commander deck with the three-color legendary at the helm.
I could easily imagine one or two more color-agnostic Gates, but that's not a given. I personally believe the complaints come - as so often - far too early, but the underlying apprehension about the card is realistic. Not getting the full picture from a leak is to be expected though.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Planar Chaos was not a mistake neither was it random. You might want to look at it again.
[thread=239793][Game] Level Up - Creature[/thread]
i·ll say it
Wizards of the Coast is doing a *****e job
Hasbro is stepping on their product for Disney and it·s clear that the complexity level has spiked ever since Zendikar Rising
they pandered to Mammon for way too long and now it·s eating them alive
Do the hamsters running around in your skull know you've revealed Mammon's master plan?
There are at least 3 common gates in Nine-Fingers' colors, possibly as many as 7. Assuming a pack construction like the original Commander Legends, each draft pool of 8 players will have about 7 of those 3 and depending on rarity, up to about 9 of the other 4. This makes assembling the 9 lands for Nine-Fingers difficult, but far from impossible.
To be fair, I think the more reasonable complaint was about Constructed. And while this set is meant for Draft, it would be an oversight worthy of some noise if they didn't make certain the card worked in Constructed Commander as well. We know in its colors there are three pre-existing two-color Gates (Golgari Guildgate plus two) as well as the afore-mentioned Gateway Plaza and we can expect three members of the Citadel Gate cycle. That's seven legal cards for a possible Constructed Commander deck with the three-color legendary at the helm.
I could easily imagine one or two more color-agnostic Gates, but that's not a given. I personally believe the complaints come - as so often - far too early, but the underlying apprehension about the card is realistic. Not getting the full picture from a leak is to be expected though.
This is, as another very illustrative example, the reason Urza's Saga is - and had to be - an enchantment land. You'll notice in the above list of land types Urza's. That type line was not an arbitrary choice, but a consequence of the what the rules dictate. I want to put extra special emphasis on the fact that Urza's (as opposed to Forest) has no inherent rules meaning; it does "nothing special".
I have to eat some humble pie and say you are indeed correct in many of your aspects and now I get to call myself stupid for not jumping the gun on my own assumptions. I disagree that adding Gate to creatures/artifacts would complicate anything, but that's a personal thing rather than one built off of facts.
With that said I only assumed the type "Urza's" on Urza's Saga was them being cheeky with that card rather than anything specific and it being an enchantment land was necessary what with it being a Saga more than anything else.
This is, as another very illustrative example, the reason Urza's Saga is - and had to be - an enchantment land. You'll notice in the above list of land types Urza's. That type line was not an arbitrary choice, but a consequence of the what the rules dictate. I want to put extra special emphasis on the fact that Urza's (as opposed to Forest) has no inherent rules meaning; it does "nothing special".
What I really want to see is a land hoser specifically for lands with more than one type, and then watch the chaos as folks argue about the power plants and mines and so on
This is, as another very illustrative example, the reason Urza's Saga is - and had to be - an enchantment land. You'll notice in the above list of land types Urza's. That type line was not an arbitrary choice, but a consequence of the what the rules dictate. I want to put extra special emphasis on the fact that Urza's (as opposed to Forest) has no inherent rules meaning; it does "nothing special".
What I really want to see is a land hoser specifically for lands with more than one type, and then watch the chaos as folks argue about the power plants and mines and so on
He seems pretty cool. It could be fun to stack Vito and Sanguine bond effects and double the drain with him.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Embrace the dark you call a home,
Gaze upon an empty, white throne
A legacy of lies,
A familiar disguise
Sing with me a song of conquest and fate
The black pillar cracks beneath its weight
Night breaks through the day, hard as a stone
Lost in thoughts all alone
So I just realized that there’s a Baba Lysaga card so that means we are going to have a Strahd card right? As far as lore goes I’ve only read stuff about Ravenloft. Is there precedent for the Baldurs Gate storyline intertwining with Strahd? I’ve tried looking online on my lunch break but haven’t had success lol
Minsc and Boo and some Baldur's Gate friends of his have visited Strahd's Domain in the comics and Volo visited the Domain before he had to get Elminster to rescue him (apparently Elminister trumps the Dark Powers, good friend to have).
idk man, rules get amended all the time. with every single new product release even. i'm not saying its a sure thing, i'm saying you can't rule stuff out based on illegally leaked partial information, and that maybe we need to just calm down until official stuff starts coming down the pipe.
i mean, luxior didn't even work as intended until the rules update, and that set comes out this week.
plus enchantments are a thing that's been given a lot more design space recently too... so...
we can't know what we don't know, but we do know there's a gate theme on some of the cards in the set. from that we can posit that there are gates in the set in order to make that mechanic work. especially as this is a draftable set. and that's... kind of it for now.
so throwing up our hands and ranting and raving that there aren't enough gates here really should be that moment where we take a step back and say maybe we need to take a break to gain some perspective for a minute before saying that wotc cant even design their own game.
Sources I could find by a fast google search:
https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/making-magic/back-future-sight-2020-08-03 (You need to scroll to the part about Dryad Arbor)
https://markrosewater.tumblr.com/post/175188502123/request-a-5-color-identity-legendary-land
https://markrosewater.tumblr.com/post/185484159923/why-was-dryad-arbor-a-mistake-do-the-problems
https://markrosewater.tumblr.com/post/179743748008/why-did-the-ftv-dryad-arbor-look-so-similar-to-a
Updating a rule for one card is different than sharing subtypes between card types. Currently the only two cases of this are instants/ sorceries, and creatures/ tribal. They aren't going to make a new card type to meaninglessly give a few card a a typw that doesn't make any sense, and adds no design space. We will get gates, they will be lands. Because they know how to make their own game, they will not be adding gate to other card types.
One of the party members is a vampire and there's already hints of some vampirey storyline for him. Hard to say exactly given how thoroughly not done the game is but I wouldn't be shocked at all.
It would make me extremely happy lol Is that character from the third game? The third game is still in development isn’t it?
On the gate subject do you think they’d bring in fortifications for this set? Maybe there’d be a cycle that give the gate type? If they didn’t want to explore gates they could have enchantments that make them gates. I feel that they should have made her five color or five color identity.
Gaze upon an empty, white throne
A legacy of lies,
A familiar disguise
Sing with me a song of conquest and fate
The black pillar cracks beneath its weight
Night breaks through the day, hard as a stone
Lost in thoughts all alone
Yeah, Asterion. Some folks were mentioning that his card leaked but I didn't see it on there. It seems like the whole main cast from BG3 is going to be in, though. I am still wondering if the set will spoil anything story-wise.
Right now BG3 is pretty playable! and has a pretty big map! But the story quests end before you actually reach baldur's gate (the city) and the level caps out at level 4. They did do a whole section of underdark, which is super cool imo and hopefully that means we'll see the shadowlands too. And the hells. Honestly they built a really tight gameplay platform, all it needs now is more content.
i·ll say it
Wizards of the Coast is doing a *****e job
Hasbro is stepping on their product for Disney and it·s clear that the complexity level has spiked ever since Zendikar Rising
they pandered to Mammon for way too long and now it·s eating them alive
-Irini Sengir
Also of interest to you - since it metions a creature that also has a land type - might be
The combination of these should make it apparent that Dryad Arbor can be a Forest only because it is a land creature rather than a nonland creature. Since Gate is also a land type it also requires the card to be a land.
This is, as another very illustrative example, the reason Urza's Saga is - and had to be - an enchantment land. You'll notice in the above list of land types Urza's. That type line was not an arbitrary choice, but a consequence of the what the rules dictate. I want to put extra special emphasis on the fact that Urza's (as opposed to Forest) has no inherent rules meaning; it does "nothing special".
You seem to misunderstand something about Equipment artifact creatures with reconfigure. What you describe is not an inherent trait of Equipment, but a trait of the keyword reconfigure. You understandably mix these two concepts up, because no card that inherently is an Equipment artifact creature comes without reconfigure (IIRC), but you might be aware (or able to find out by asking a Judge/Rules Guru in the appropriate forum) that animated Equipment actually usually (i. e. without that keyword) does the opposite in the same scenario: It stays a creature, but then falls off the equipped creature as SBA.
Finally a good white villain quote: "So, do I ever re-evaluate my life choices? Never, because I know what I'm doing is a righteous cause."
Factions: Sleeping
Remnants: Valheim
Legendary Journey: Heroes & Planeswalkers
Saga: Shards of Rabiah
Legends: The Elder Dragons
Read up on Red Flags & NWO
Luxior, Giada's Gift is reasonably intuitive and doesn't break anything with the rules change required. Putting land types on nonlands creates a godawful, unintuitive mess that's pretty easily avoided.
To be clear, I am not saying there is some kind of horrible mistake on WotC's part, you don't need nonland gates to make Nine-Fingers or any other possible gate cards word.
There are at least 3 common gates in Nine-Fingers' colors, possibly as many as 7. Assuming a pack construction like the original Commander Legends, each draft pool of 8 players will have about 7 of those 3 and depending on rarity, up to about 9 of the other 4. This makes assembling the 9 lands for Nine-Fingers difficult, but far from impossible.
There are other, perfectly reasonable ways the count could be higher than that as well: There could be a land slot (or even a gate slot, for that matter), Gateway Plaza could also be in the set, or there could be cards that turn lands into gates as someone mentioned previously.
To be fair, I think the more reasonable complaint was about Constructed. And while this set is meant for Draft, it would be an oversight worthy of some noise if they didn't make certain the card worked in Constructed Commander as well. We know in its colors there are three pre-existing two-color Gates (Golgari Guildgate plus two) as well as the afore-mentioned Gateway Plaza and we can expect three members of the Citadel Gate cycle. That's seven legal cards for a possible Constructed Commander deck with the three-color legendary at the helm.
I could easily imagine one or two more color-agnostic Gates, but that's not a given. I personally believe the complaints come - as so often - far too early, but the underlying apprehension about the card is realistic. Not getting the full picture from a leak is to be expected though.
Finally a good white villain quote: "So, do I ever re-evaluate my life choices? Never, because I know what I'm doing is a righteous cause."
Factions: Sleeping
Remnants: Valheim
Legendary Journey: Heroes & Planeswalkers
Saga: Shards of Rabiah
Legends: The Elder Dragons
Read up on Red Flags & NWO
https://www.reddit.com/r/magicTCG/comments/u8h42y/clb_astarion_the_decadent/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
why thank u dearie i·m flattered
-Irini Sengir
Do the hamsters running around in your skull know you've revealed Mammon's master plan?
and yeh
wtf do you think
"Niv-Mizzet·s new mechanical body" is ka
-Irini Sengir
In constructed, 3 choose-a-color gates, 3 guildgates, Gateway Plaza, Vesuva, Thespian's Stage have you covered, albeit with no safety margin, using only lands. Replication Technique, Crystalline Resonance, Mirage Mirror, Sakashima's Protege, Orvar, the All-Form and Moritte of the Frost can all help pad that number and if you really wanna do it the hard way, you can animate them and copy them as creatures. Is it easy? No, but does it need to be?
I have to eat some humble pie and say you are indeed correct in many of your aspects and now I get to call myself stupid for not jumping the gun on my own assumptions. I disagree that adding Gate to creatures/artifacts would complicate anything, but that's a personal thing rather than one built off of facts.
With that said I only assumed the type "Urza's" on Urza's Saga was them being cheeky with that card rather than anything specific and it being an enchantment land was necessary what with it being a Saga more than anything else.
Thank you!
What I really want to see is a land hoser specifically for lands with more than one type, and then watch the chaos as folks argue about the power plants and mines and so on
Until we get Secret Lair Mythos with Yog-Sothoth!
Just don't call it soap.
He seems pretty cool. It could be fun to stack Vito and Sanguine bond effects and double the drain with him.
Gaze upon an empty, white throne
A legacy of lies,
A familiar disguise
Sing with me a song of conquest and fate
The black pillar cracks beneath its weight
Night breaks through the day, hard as a stone
Lost in thoughts all alone
I feel as though words are being put in my mouth.
Minsc and Boo and some Baldur's Gate friends of his have visited Strahd's Domain in the comics and Volo visited the Domain before he had to get Elminster to rescue him (apparently Elminister trumps the Dark Powers, good friend to have).
https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Strahd_von_Zarovich