Aside from the bad vehicle, these green commons are all super pushed. Why is green getting so much love?
i think it has to do with edh.
green historically got strong cards, green is a powerful popular color in edh because of it, how do you keep selling packs? keep pushing it because its popular and has strong cards. no one plays white or red, so why push those they don't sell packs.
they've gotten way better about this in the past year or so, but it still rings pretty true. the game isn't really about balance any more and it really comes down to what sells the most.
if you want to be super technical about it, green's boosts only came in after 2010. before that, it was Elves and "play at the beginner's table," with the rare aggro deck. it took ten years for Wizards to find the ceiling. thankfully, the clamor of the Commande rplayerbase is for white, so it'll be in this position of people hating on it soon
Aside from the bad vehicle, these green commons are all super pushed. Why is green getting so much love?
i think it has to do with edh.
green historically got strong cards, green is a powerful popular color in edh because of it, how do you keep selling packs? keep pushing it because its popular and has strong cards. no one plays white or red, so why push those they don't sell packs.
they've gotten way better about this in the past year or so, but it still rings pretty true. the game isn't really about balance any more and it really comes down to what sells the most.
if you want to be super technical about it, green's boosts only came in after 2010. before that, it was Elves and "play at the beginner's table," with the rare aggro deck. it took ten years for Wizards to find the ceiling. thankfully, the clamor of the Commande rplayerbase is for white, so it'll be in this position of people hating on it soon
Yeah I would say primeval titan and craterhoof behemoth (also somewhat less strangleroot geist) was where it really kicked off. But this is still pretty balanced I dunno if you're looking at the white cards at all but whoof. This whole set is pushed.
Aside from the bad vehicle, these green commons are all super pushed. Why is green getting so much love?
i think it has to do with edh.
green historically got strong cards, green is a powerful popular color in edh because of it, how do you keep selling packs? keep pushing it because its popular and has strong cards. no one plays white or red, so why push those they don't sell packs.
they've gotten way better about this in the past year or so, but it still rings pretty true. the game isn't really about balance any more and it really comes down to what sells the most.
This a very thoughtful and we'll described argument, makes sense. And no, the white cards are no where close in power. I wanted one single card with recurring connive in white and I didn't get it. And no, illuminator virtuoso doesn't count because he demands you fill your deck with jank spells to work.
This set seems like such a dud. Besides the stuff shown day 1 and the triomes, everything just seems so boring. I want to be proven wrong during the prerelease, but for a shard set, I couldn’t be less interested.
Kinda surprised that Black didn't get as much Treasure token support in this set compared to Green and Red. White should've gotten that support instead but it is what it is I guess. So far the only good White card draw from this set is using Rumor Gatherer with Darien, King of Kjeldor and Tarnished Citadel which is overdue for a reprint. Smuggler's Share would be good If Mono-White had access to Wheel effects to make better use for it.
"Restriction breeds creativity." - Sheldon Menery on EDH / Commander in Magic: The Gathering
"Cancel Culture is the real reason why everyone's not allowed to have nice things anymore." - Anonymous
"For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his own soul?" - Mark 8:36
"Most men and women will grow up to love their servitude and will never dream of revolution." - Aldous Huxley, Brave New World
"Every life decision is always a risk / reward proposition." - Sanjay Gupta
I'm just glad that most of the treasure tokens aren't coming into play tapped. That was my fear when some of the earlier cards were spoiled. I recently sold 2 Amulet of Vigor & thought that I might have to buy some back.
I'm just glad that most of the treasure tokens aren't coming into play tapped. That was my fear when some of the earlier cards were spoiled. I recently sold 2 Amulet of Vigor & thought that I might have to buy some back.
True but I can't think of any other way for them to fix Treasure tokens without making them as broken as they are untapped. Worst case scenario they sac the tokens in response for mana to Flash something in / cast an Instant unless you make it harder for opponents to do so like with Karn, the Great Creator or Null Rod for example. Players are just going to have to deal with free Lotus Petals unless they start running answers for them.
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America Bless Christ Jesus
"Restriction breeds creativity." - Sheldon Menery on EDH / Commander in Magic: The Gathering
"Cancel Culture is the real reason why everyone's not allowed to have nice things anymore." - Anonymous
"For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his own soul?" - Mark 8:36
"Most men and women will grow up to love their servitude and will never dream of revolution." - Aldous Huxley, Brave New World
"Every life decision is always a risk / reward proposition." - Sanjay Gupta
I'm just glad that most of the treasure tokens aren't coming into play tapped. That was my fear when some of the earlier cards were spoiled. I recently sold 2 Amulet of Vigor & thought that I might have to buy some back.
True but I can't think of any other way for them to fix Treasure tokens without making them as broken as they are untapped. Worst case scenario they sac the tokens in response for mana to Flash something in / cast an Instant unless you make it harder for opponents to do so like with Karn, the Great Creator or Null Rod for example. Players are just going to have to deal with free Lotus Petals unless they start running answers for them.
I'm just glad that most of the treasure tokens aren't coming into play tapped. That was my fear when some of the earlier cards were spoiled. I recently sold 2 Amulet of Vigor & thought that I might have to buy some back.
True but I can't think of any other way for them to fix Treasure tokens without making them as broken as they are untapped. Worst case scenario they sac the tokens in response for mana to Flash something in / cast an Instant unless you make it harder for opponents to do so like with Karn, the Great Creator or Null Rod for example. Players are just going to have to deal with free Lotus Petals unless they start running answers for them.
Which cards are making treasure tokens for free?
Cards like Dockside Extortionist and Pitiless Plunderer that doesn't have as many requirements for triggering their abilities for example. Bootleggers' Stash is basically a 6 mana Prismatic Omen / Dryad of the Ilysian Grove that fixes colors through Treasures instead of basic land types. What makes these Treasure tokens broken is that you can crack them for mana on the same turn you produce them putting you farther ahead above everyone else at the table for mana. Then again you can make a similar argument for a lot of ritual spells that add mana such as Dark Ritual, High Tide, or even Mana Geyser.
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
America Bless Christ Jesus
"Restriction breeds creativity." - Sheldon Menery on EDH / Commander in Magic: The Gathering
"Cancel Culture is the real reason why everyone's not allowed to have nice things anymore." - Anonymous
"For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his own soul?" - Mark 8:36
"Most men and women will grow up to love their servitude and will never dream of revolution." - Aldous Huxley, Brave New World
"Every life decision is always a risk / reward proposition." - Sanjay Gupta
I'm just glad that most of the treasure tokens aren't coming into play tapped. That was my fear when some of the earlier cards were spoiled. I recently sold 2 Amulet of Vigor & thought that I might have to buy some back.
True but I can't think of any other way for them to fix Treasure tokens without making them as broken as they are untapped. Worst case scenario they sac the tokens in response for mana to Flash something in / cast an Instant unless you make it harder for opponents to do so like with Karn, the Great Creator or Null Rod for example. Players are just going to have to deal with free Lotus Petals unless they start running answers for them.
Which cards are making treasure tokens for free?
Cards like Dockside Extortionist and Pitiless Plunderer that doesn't have as many requirements for triggering their abilities for example. Bootleggers' Stash is basically a 6 mana Prismatic Omen / Dryad of the Ilysian Grove that fixes colors through Treasures instead of basic land types. What makes these Treasure tokens broken is that you can crack them for mana on the same turn you produce them putting you farther ahead above everyone else at the table for mana. Then again you can make a similar argument for a lot of ritual spells that add mana such as Dark Ritual, High Tide, or even Mana Geyser.
All of those cards cost mana. One of them doesn't even ramp you unless you've already ramped. They aren't free, they just generate a lot of value (typically.) Lotus Petal is actually free, besides the card it costs you (which all of the examples listed also cost.) Of the cards listed, the only broken ones are Dockside and the ones that don't produce treasure. Even Dockside is only broken because it is one mana undercosted (it should have been 1RR imo).Rituals (typically) unconditionally give you more mana than they cost. None of the treasure producing cards do that.
I'm not saying that zero treasure producing cards are broken. 1 of them obviously is (Dockside), and one of them is very pushed (Goldspan.). By that logic, Food tokens are more broken because a single undercosted card utilizes them in a broken fashion (Oko), and another is very pushed (Witch's Oven.)
Weird how they did some angel tribal in this set and not demon tribal.
I really can't say I like this set. I'm not saying the set is bad, but this entire thing isn't speaking to me in the least. I think I've enjoyed about three cards of this whole set. I barely remember any of the names of the characters and even the cards I like I don't know the names of. Maybe it's me, maybe I'm tired or depressed or something but Magic is less magical and memorable than it used to be, but I feel nothing for this set. Not joy or anger, not intrigued or annoyed just....nothing.
I thought I'd feel nothing for Kamigawa, but I liked that, it was rather fun and I enjoyed being wrong that WotC would screw it up, but this set is like the fuzz on a t.v. screen. Maybe it's the setting or me. Who knows. I think I'll buy the few cards that will help a commander deck of mine and my usual bundle and that'll be it.
Now: so, Grizzly Bears with how many upsides? Three? Four?
There is totally power creep going on on the 2/2-for-2 level, but this is a legendary creature in white, the color that got a legendary 2/2 for 1. The whole statement always was "Other colors shouldn't get Grizzly Bears without downside" and legendary is a downside.
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Planar Chaos was not a mistake neither was it random. You might want to look at it again.
[thread=239793][Game] Level Up - Creature[/thread]
I know this is rather late to say this, but is anyone else kind of peeved that they did the remainder of the triome cycle but only had 5 cycling cards in this set?
Like... It feels like cycling should have been a part of the set since it's not an evergreen mechanic.
It could just be me -- I'm all for it becoming an evergreen mechanic somehow but it kind of just feels a little lazy, like "well the other triomes had cycling so lets just make triomes instead of new three colored lands"
I know this is rather late to say this, but is anyone else kind of peeved that they did the remainder of the triome cycle but only had 5 cycling cards in this set?
Like... It feels like cycling should have been a part of the set since it's not an evergreen mechanic.
It could just be me -- I'm all for it becoming an evergreen mechanic somehow but it kind of just feels a little lazy, like "well the other triomes had cycling so lets just make triomes instead of new three colored lands"
I'm pretty sure there was an article indicating cycling was now deciduous along the lines of hybrid mana, vehicles, etc. so there being only a cycle isn't offputting at all. Cycling is a great mechanic that can shore up a lot of space in an environment, so seeing more of it untethered is a good call.
[quote from="Zemarr »" url="/forums/magic-fundamentals/the-rumor-mill/826320-snc-giada-font-of-hope-and-the-full-set?comment=44"]I know this is rather late to say this, but is anyone else kind of peeved that they did the remainder of the triome cycle but only had 5 cycling cards in this set?
Like... It feels like cycling should have been a part of the set since it's not an evergreen mechanic.
It could just be me -- I'm all for it becoming an evergreen mechanic somehow but it kind of just feels a little lazy, like "well the other triomes had cycling so lets just make triomes instead of new three colored lands"
Gameplay matters and color balance in mana base its a real issue. People were waiting to the cycle to be completed and WotC didn't know when they would got a chance to print them in a set. As MaRo says "We could wait until we found a world that would allow us to use the word Triome, but that would have meant pushing it off for who knows how long." https://markrosewater.tumblr.com/post/677759709696180224/can-i-just-say-that-its-a-bit-disappointing-that
Yeah I would say primeval titan and craterhoof behemoth (also somewhat less strangleroot geist) was where it really kicked off. But this is still pretty balanced I dunno if you're looking at the white cards at all but whoof. This whole set is pushed.
This a very thoughtful and we'll described argument, makes sense. And no, the white cards are no where close in power. I wanted one single card with recurring connive in white and I didn't get it. And no, illuminator virtuoso doesn't count because he demands you fill your deck with jank spells to work.
same here they really hit it well of making a shard set for the first time since alara
Imagine that with a foretold Starnheim Unleashed.
'buster
HR Analyst. Gamer. Activist | Fearless, and forthright | Aggro-control is a mindset.
Elspeth and Jhoira rock my world.
I can smell it people are gonna make infinites with this one
I mean the most obvious is Freed from the Real with a token doubler like Adrix and Nev, Twincasters
You can already do that for far less mana with birds of Paradise, Kinnan, and Freed.
'buster
HR Analyst. Gamer. Activist | Fearless, and forthright | Aggro-control is a mindset.
Elspeth and Jhoira rock my world.
Kinda surprised that Black didn't get as much Treasure token support in this set compared to Green and Red. White should've gotten that support instead but it is what it is I guess. So far the only good White card draw from this set is using Rumor Gatherer with Darien, King of Kjeldor and Tarnished Citadel which is overdue for a reprint. Smuggler's Share would be good If Mono-White had access to Wheel effects to make better use for it.
"Restriction breeds creativity." - Sheldon Menery on EDH / Commander in Magic: The Gathering
"Cancel Culture is the real reason why everyone's not allowed to have nice things anymore." - Anonymous
"For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his own soul?" - Mark 8:36
"Most men and women will grow up to love their servitude and will never dream of revolution." - Aldous Huxley, Brave New World
"Every life decision is always a risk / reward proposition." - Sanjay Gupta
"Restriction breeds creativity." - Sheldon Menery on EDH / Commander in Magic: The Gathering
"Cancel Culture is the real reason why everyone's not allowed to have nice things anymore." - Anonymous
"For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his own soul?" - Mark 8:36
"Most men and women will grow up to love their servitude and will never dream of revolution." - Aldous Huxley, Brave New World
"Every life decision is always a risk / reward proposition." - Sanjay Gupta
Which cards are making treasure tokens for free?
"Restriction breeds creativity." - Sheldon Menery on EDH / Commander in Magic: The Gathering
"Cancel Culture is the real reason why everyone's not allowed to have nice things anymore." - Anonymous
"For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his own soul?" - Mark 8:36
"Most men and women will grow up to love their servitude and will never dream of revolution." - Aldous Huxley, Brave New World
"Every life decision is always a risk / reward proposition." - Sanjay Gupta
All of those cards cost mana. One of them doesn't even ramp you unless you've already ramped. They aren't free, they just generate a lot of value (typically.) Lotus Petal is actually free, besides the card it costs you (which all of the examples listed also cost.) Of the cards listed, the only broken ones are Dockside and the ones that don't produce treasure. Even Dockside is only broken because it is one mana undercosted (it should have been 1RR imo).Rituals (typically) unconditionally give you more mana than they cost. None of the treasure producing cards do that.
I'm not saying that zero treasure producing cards are broken. 1 of them obviously is (Dockside), and one of them is very pushed (Goldspan.). By that logic, Food tokens are more broken because a single undercosted card utilizes them in a broken fashion (Oko), and another is very pushed (Witch's Oven.)
I really can't say I like this set. I'm not saying the set is bad, but this entire thing isn't speaking to me in the least. I think I've enjoyed about three cards of this whole set. I barely remember any of the names of the characters and even the cards I like I don't know the names of. Maybe it's me, maybe I'm tired or depressed or something but Magic is less magical and memorable than it used to be, but I feel nothing for this set. Not joy or anger, not intrigued or annoyed just....nothing.
I thought I'd feel nothing for Kamigawa, but I liked that, it was rather fun and I enjoyed being wrong that WotC would screw it up, but this set is like the fuzz on a t.v. screen. Maybe it's the setting or me. Who knows. I think I'll buy the few cards that will help a commander deck of mine and my usual bundle and that'll be it.
There is totally power creep going on on the 2/2-for-2 level, but this is a legendary creature in white, the color that got a legendary 2/2 for 1. The whole statement always was "Other colors shouldn't get Grizzly Bears without downside" and legendary is a downside.
Finally a good white villain quote: "So, do I ever re-evaluate my life choices? Never, because I know what I'm doing is a righteous cause."
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Like... It feels like cycling should have been a part of the set since it's not an evergreen mechanic.
It could just be me -- I'm all for it becoming an evergreen mechanic somehow but it kind of just feels a little lazy, like "well the other triomes had cycling so lets just make triomes instead of new three colored lands"
I'm pretty sure there was an article indicating cycling was now deciduous along the lines of hybrid mana, vehicles, etc. so there being only a cycle isn't offputting at all. Cycling is a great mechanic that can shore up a lot of space in an environment, so seeing more of it untethered is a good call.
Gameplay matters and color balance in mana base its a real issue. People were waiting to the cycle to be completed and WotC didn't know when they would got a chance to print them in a set. As MaRo says "We could wait until we found a world that would allow us to use the word Triome, but that would have meant pushing it off for who knows how long."
https://markrosewater.tumblr.com/post/677759709696180224/can-i-just-say-that-its-a-bit-disappointing-that
It·s as good as the reputation that precedes it .
I like that Giada, Font of Hope is like a rebalanced Radiant, Archangel .
-Irini Sengir
Exactly--we went to the same place there.