Of course they continue to give Green things it doesn't need. Is it "Green"? I mean sure, Green can make Clues and Food, and dabbled with Treasures, and it is the color of mana production, so sure this fits. But does Green need to get yet another great Treasure engine (glares at Old Gnawbones)??? I was highly suspicious when the Gruul Treasure cards were spoiled (the one that only costs RG with Treasure mana and the Treasure Dork that hurts you) along with Ziatora creating Treasures, but now they are going to be solidly in Green from here. This is so stupid. Not only does the mana stick around, but Treasure strats are only going to get better as Magic goes on, and these are artifact tokens, so this can be splashed in every deck that wants high artifact counts/token creation. This and Doubling Season is just stupid. This and Chatterfang, Squirrel General is just stupid. This is just a truly awful, yet sadly inevitable, development.
"Treasure strats are only going to get better as Magic goes on"
Uh yeah, that's how this works? Things get better as more cards are printed to support them.
"This token-making card is really good with things that care about tokens being made!" Well damn dude, you're right! I guess that's just a truly awful, yet sadly inevitable, development! Maybe they should just stop printing cards that interact with preexisting cards!
i think the greater point trying to be made is that maybe it should've been a color that isn't green because green supports abusing this so incredibly easily while also not really needing any of the benefits that it offers. its basically another cute toy in an arsenal of cute toys that could've gone somewhere else.
Of course they continue to give Green things it doesn't need. Is it "Green"? I mean sure, Green can make Clues and Food, and dabbled with Treasures, and it is the color of mana production, so sure this fits. But does Green need to get yet another great Treasure engine (glares at Old Gnawbones)??? I was highly suspicious when the Gruul Treasure cards were spoiled (the one that only costs RG with Treasure mana and the Treasure Dork that hurts you) along with Ziatora creating Treasures, but now they are going to be solidly in Green from here. This is so stupid. Not only does the mana stick around, but Treasure strats are only going to get better as Magic goes on, and these are artifact tokens, so this can be splashed in every deck that wants high artifact counts/token creation. This and Doubling Season is just stupid. This and Chatterfang, Squirrel General is just stupid. This is just a truly awful, yet sadly inevitable, development.
"Treasure strats are only going to get better as Magic goes on"
Uh yeah, that's how this works? Things get better as more cards are printed to support them.
"This token-making card is really good with things that care about tokens being made!" Well damn dude, you're right! I guess that's just a truly awful, yet sadly inevitable, development! Maybe they should just stop printing cards that interact with preexisting cards!
i think the greater point trying to be made is that maybe it should've been a color that isn't green because green supports abusing this so incredibly easily while also not really needing any of the benefits that it offers. its basically another cute toy in an arsenal of cute toys that could've gone somewhere else.
I mean it's about mana generation. It's green. It's the "Channel" color. It would be weird in any other color and broken in colorless.
I mean it's about mana generation. It's green. It's the "Channel" color. It would be weird in any other color and broken in colorless.
Actually it would be totally fine in red, as red makes lots of treasure tokens anyway and has that "theme" in basically any other set so far.
In this set every color has treasures, so its neither green or anything, could totally be colorless for that matter alone, as treasures are nothing special in any color regarding this set.
What makes it green is the coupling to lands, as green cares about lands especially, not so much about treasures.
I mean it's about mana generation. It's green. It's the "Channel" color. It would be weird in any other color and broken in colorless.
Actually it would be totally fine in red, as red makes lots of treasure tokens anyway and has that "theme" in basically any other set so far.
In this set every color has treasures, so its neither green or anything, could totally be colorless for that matter alone, as treasures are nothing special in any color regarding this set.
What makes it green is the coupling to lands, as green cares about lands especially, not so much about treasures.
I mean other colors get like one or two treasures for jumping through some hoops. Between this and the tap for a treasure guy with no hoops, it's green. I think originally treasure overall was planned to be much more red hence Goldspan Dragon to represent the idea of "temporary" mana, but in this set it's pretty firmly shifted over to red green and green gets the big guns.
I mean other colors get like one or two treasures for jumping through some hoops. Between this and the tap for a treasure guy with no hoops, it's green. I think originally treasure overall was planned to be much more red hence Goldspan Dragon to represent the idea of "temporary" mana, but in this set it's pretty firmly shifted over to red green and green gets the big guns.
Its more like the usual mechanic of green ramping with lands is shifted to fit in the overall theme of treasures in the set.
With Eldrazi spawn tokens we had the same, they also made mana, and all the colors got some of them, its the same deal here, a on-theme thing for a set that kinda breaks the color-pie, but as an exception to the rule (not that they really honor the color pie anymore, but thats a different battlefield).
Normally green would not pump out treasures, but "permanent" extra mana.
But in this set its more the identity of the 3-color families that matters, and they ALL care about treasures to some degree.
The red/green family cares about treasures the most, as red produces them usually, and green goes along the mana theme by default.
Black/Red/Green family has its major rares all with treasure tokens, so thats quite a theme for that, primarily red/green.
I mean other colors get like one or two treasures for jumping through some hoops. Between this and the tap for a treasure guy with no hoops, it's green. I think originally treasure overall was planned to be much more red hence Goldspan Dragon to represent the idea of "temporary" mana, but in this set it's pretty firmly shifted over to red green and green gets the big guns.
Originally they were pretty evenly split blue/black/red as the pirate mechanic in Ixalan. Streets of New Capenna has them roughly evenly split red/green too.
Somewhat surprised the Horizon Stone analogy doesn't seem to have been made yet. Also, Omnath, Locus of Mana, Leyline Tyrant, Kruphix, God of Horizons. This has an advantage because it makes tokens and fixes mana, and I do think it's good because of that (mostly the tokens), but the mana storage effect is nothing new and nothing all that good at 6 mana. Green is the least well positioned to take advantage of artifact tokens, and it's far from the most broken use of Doubling Season, that's basically just building your own Mirari's Wake.
Been contemplating on running Bootleggers' Stash in Chatterfang, Squirrel General for Commander and I've come to the conclusion that it isn't worth it. I'd much rather cast Treasure Map for 2 rather than pay 5G to enable my lands to produce Treasures which stops you from casting your own spells unless you have a way to untap lands during your opponents turns to produce the Treasures like with Seedborn Muse and Awakening.
In a format where mana curve matters to where you want to have more room to cast more spells in one turn is better than just casting a Bootleggers' Stash and having to pass the turn or having to wait a turn when your opponents could potentially combo out for game though in the case with other 5 or 6 mana value enchantments like Doubling Season it isn't as restrictive on how many spells you cast a turn.
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"Restriction breeds creativity." - Sheldon Menery on EDH / Commander in Magic: The Gathering
"Cancel Culture is the real reason why everyone's not allowed to have nice things anymore." - Anonymous
"For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his own soul?" - Mark 8:36
"Most men and women will grow up to love their servitude and will never dream of revolution." - Aldous Huxley, Brave New World
"Every life decision is always a risk / reward proposition." - Sanjay Gupta
(LAN means "Local Area Network" . Back in the days before ubiquitous wifi , gamers used to have to haul their whole computers , cables and all , to gaming parties .)
Been contemplating on running Bootleggers' Stash in Chatterfang, Squirrel General for Commander and I've come to the conclusion that it isn't worth it. I'd much rather cast Treasure Map for 2 rather than pay 5G to enable my lands to produce Treasures which stops you from casting your own spells unless you have a way to untap lands during your opponents turns to produce the Treasures like with Seedborn Muse and Awakening.
In a format where mana curve matters to where you want to have more room to cast more spells in one turn is better than just casting a Bootleggers' Stash and having to pass the turn or having to wait a turn when your opponents could potentially combo out for game though in the case with other 5 or 6 mana value enchantments like Doubling Season it isn't as restrictive on how many spells you cast a turn.
You can tap treasures on your opponents turn, you know? You can tap them when they come into play, they're not creatures.
Been contemplating on running Bootleggers' Stash in Chatterfang, Squirrel General for Commander and I've come to the conclusion that it isn't worth it. I'd much rather cast Treasure Map for 2 rather than pay 5G to enable my lands to produce Treasures which stops you from casting your own spells unless you have a way to untap lands during your opponents turns to produce the Treasures like with Seedborn Muse and Awakening.
In a format where mana curve matters to where you want to have more room to cast more spells in one turn is better than just casting a Bootleggers' Stash and having to pass the turn or having to wait a turn when your opponents could potentially combo out for game though in the case with other 5 or 6 mana value enchantments like Doubling Season it isn't as restrictive on how many spells you cast a turn.
You can tap treasures on your opponents turn, you know? You can tap them when they come into play, they're not creatures.
I think what J is getting at is that if you're tapping out to play Bootleggers' Stash, then you're not getting any advantage out of it any time soon. If you aren't untapping your lands every upkeep, or producing twice as many tokens, or whatever the case may be to really blow the ability up, the choices if it even sticks around are "Take a turn off and double my mana by making treasure tokens" or "Cast spells normally, and have an artifact out that will only incidentally generate extra mana" neither of which are like, super good.
Which is a fair assessment, I would say. Bootleggers' Stash is not, by itself, anything to be super concerned about. The big issue is just that it's an insanely simple, reliable engine forotherkindsofcards.
Been contemplating on running Bootleggers' Stash in Chatterfang, Squirrel General for Commander and I've come to the conclusion that it isn't worth it. I'd much rather cast Treasure Map for 2 rather than pay 5G to enable my lands to produce Treasures which stops you from casting your own spells unless you have a way to untap lands during your opponents turns to produce the Treasures like with Seedborn Muse and Awakening.
In a format where mana curve matters to where you want to have more room to cast more spells in one turn is better than just casting a Bootleggers' Stash and having to pass the turn or having to wait a turn when your opponents could potentially combo out for game though in the case with other 5 or 6 mana value enchantments like Doubling Season it isn't as restrictive on how many spells you cast a turn.
You can tap treasures on your opponents turn, you know? You can tap them when they come into play, they're not creatures.
I think what J is getting at is that if you're tapping out to play Bootleggers' Stash, then you're not getting any advantage out of it any time soon.
Oh, yeah I guess I misunderstood. tbh I think this is something you ramp for or cheat out. I would hate playing this on turn 6, but turn 3-4? sure.
The problem with defining this format by what is "fun" is that everyone seems to define fun as what they don't lose to. If you keep losing to easily answered cards, that means you should improve your deck. If you don't want to improve your deck, then you should come to peace with the idea that you are going to lose because you chose to not interact with better strategies.
I genuinely can’t believe people are concerned about this card.
If a card does not do something powerful for its mana cost the turn it comes down, and you have to mention 1-3 other pieces to abuse it, it simply isn’t that strong. Combo piece? Sure - just like dozens of other cards, and at 6cmc no less.
"Restriction breeds creativity." - Sheldon Menery on EDH / Commander in Magic: The Gathering
"Cancel Culture is the real reason why everyone's not allowed to have nice things anymore." - Anonymous
"For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his own soul?" - Mark 8:36
"Most men and women will grow up to love their servitude and will never dream of revolution." - Aldous Huxley, Brave New World
"Every life decision is always a risk / reward proposition." - Sanjay Gupta
My take on it is that I'd rather be playing Chromatic Lantern unless I was heavy in Treasure. Sure, it combos with other things but that, in of itself does not make it an interesting card.
Adventures in the Forgotten Realms didn·t feature Zendikar Rising·s Party mechanic , even though it would totally make sense for D&D to have Party . Why ? They were too busy rendering Phase Envelopes .
All the cards in the world aren·t gonna rez the GeForce graphics card that was supposed to be for Yellow-Purple Night City .
The Alter Fate - i.e. the Desk Job written about in ####(2008__####) - from the Order of Midnight absolutely and in zero uncertain terms cannot be paid back in any way .
"City Under" , which they faithfully rendered cards of all the staff and volunteers for , is tanked . Are you sure you remembered maneuver 2355.hw ? Because i feel like u didn·t remember maneouver 2355.hw .
I genuinely can’t believe people are concerned about this card.
If a card does not do something powerful for its mana cost the turn it comes down, and you have to mention 1-3 other pieces to abuse it, it simply isn’t that strong. Combo piece? Sure - just like dozens of other cards, and at 6cmc no less.
Exactly. Compared to primeval titan, this is much slower for ramping and significantly less threatening
i think the greater point trying to be made is that maybe it should've been a color that isn't green because green supports abusing this so incredibly easily while also not really needing any of the benefits that it offers. its basically another cute toy in an arsenal of cute toys that could've gone somewhere else.
I mean it's about mana generation. It's green. It's the "Channel" color. It would be weird in any other color and broken in colorless.
Actually it would be totally fine in red, as red makes lots of treasure tokens anyway and has that "theme" in basically any other set so far.
In this set every color has treasures, so its neither green or anything, could totally be colorless for that matter alone, as treasures are nothing special in any color regarding this set.
What makes it green is the coupling to lands, as green cares about lands especially, not so much about treasures.
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I mean other colors get like one or two treasures for jumping through some hoops. Between this and the tap for a treasure guy with no hoops, it's green. I think originally treasure overall was planned to be much more red hence Goldspan Dragon to represent the idea of "temporary" mana, but in this set it's pretty firmly shifted over to red green and green gets the big guns.
Its more like the usual mechanic of green ramping with lands is shifted to fit in the overall theme of treasures in the set.
With Eldrazi spawn tokens we had the same, they also made mana, and all the colors got some of them, its the same deal here, a on-theme thing for a set that kinda breaks the color-pie, but as an exception to the rule (not that they really honor the color pie anymore, but thats a different battlefield).
Normally green would not pump out treasures, but "permanent" extra mana.
But in this set its more the identity of the 3-color families that matters, and they ALL care about treasures to some degree.
The red/green family cares about treasures the most, as red produces them usually, and green goes along the mana theme by default.
Black/Red/Green family has its major rares all with treasure tokens, so thats quite a theme for that, primarily red/green.
WUBRG#BlackLotusMatterWUBRG
👮👮👮 #BlueLivesMatter 👮👮👮
Originally they were pretty evenly split blue/black/red as the pirate mechanic in Ixalan. Streets of New Capenna has them roughly evenly split red/green too.
Somewhat surprised the Horizon Stone analogy doesn't seem to have been made yet. Also, Omnath, Locus of Mana, Leyline Tyrant, Kruphix, God of Horizons. This has an advantage because it makes tokens and fixes mana, and I do think it's good because of that (mostly the tokens), but the mana storage effect is nothing new and nothing all that good at 6 mana. Green is the least well positioned to take advantage of artifact tokens, and it's far from the most broken use of Doubling Season, that's basically just building your own Mirari's Wake.
In a format where mana curve matters to where you want to have more room to cast more spells in one turn is better than just casting a Bootleggers' Stash and having to pass the turn or having to wait a turn when your opponents could potentially combo out for game though in the case with other 5 or 6 mana value enchantments like Doubling Season it isn't as restrictive on how many spells you cast a turn.
"Restriction breeds creativity." - Sheldon Menery on EDH / Commander in Magic: The Gathering
"Cancel Culture is the real reason why everyone's not allowed to have nice things anymore." - Anonymous
"For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his own soul?" - Mark 8:36
"Most men and women will grow up to love their servitude and will never dream of revolution." - Aldous Huxley, Brave New World
"Every life decision is always a risk / reward proposition." - Sanjay Gupta
(LAN means "Local Area Network" . Back in the days before ubiquitous wifi , gamers used to have to haul their whole computers , cables and all , to gaming parties .)
-Irini Sengir
You can tap treasures on your opponents turn, you know? You can tap them when they come into play, they're not creatures.
-Irini Sengir
I think what J is getting at is that if you're tapping out to play Bootleggers' Stash, then you're not getting any advantage out of it any time soon. If you aren't untapping your lands every upkeep, or producing twice as many tokens, or whatever the case may be to really blow the ability up, the choices if it even sticks around are "Take a turn off and double my mana by making treasure tokens" or "Cast spells normally, and have an artifact out that will only incidentally generate extra mana" neither of which are like, super good.
Which is a fair assessment, I would say. Bootleggers' Stash is not, by itself, anything to be super concerned about. The big issue is just that it's an insanely simple, reliable engine for other kinds of cards.
Oh, yeah I guess I misunderstood. tbh I think this is something you ramp for or cheat out. I would hate playing this on turn 6, but turn 3-4? sure.
You can now cheat in any dragon or artifact in your library.
Maybe even a Goldspan so you can have 4-6 mana for 2nd main.
Theres tons of ways to go from there. You don't even need more than a pair of Magda's, Stimulus Package is life, +1/+1 counters, and chumps for days.
@whoever complained it's green: It's 5G... In a treasure deck... Mise as well be colorless.
-Irini Sengir
I think their complaint was more that it has a green color identity, so it can't be run in nongreen EDH decks.
-Irini Sengir
If a card does not do something powerful for its mana cost the turn it comes down, and you have to mention 1-3 other pieces to abuse it, it simply isn’t that strong. Combo piece? Sure - just like dozens of other cards, and at 6cmc no less.
-Irini Sengir
"Restriction breeds creativity." - Sheldon Menery on EDH / Commander in Magic: The Gathering
"Cancel Culture is the real reason why everyone's not allowed to have nice things anymore." - Anonymous
"For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his own soul?" - Mark 8:36
"Most men and women will grow up to love their servitude and will never dream of revolution." - Aldous Huxley, Brave New World
"Every life decision is always a risk / reward proposition." - Sanjay Gupta
"¿You wanna know the best part? There·s ORCA dna in the humans ."
-Black Diamond , to Jonas
Black Diamond -- Diamond File
-Irini Sengir
You wanna have a LANd Party ?
Adventures in the Forgotten Realms didn·t feature Zendikar Rising·s Party mechanic , even though it would totally make sense for D&D to have Party . Why ? They were too busy rendering Phase Envelopes .
All the cards in the world aren·t gonna rez the GeForce graphics card that was supposed to be for Yellow-Purple Night City .
The Alter Fate - i.e. the Desk Job written about in ####(2008__####) - from the Order of Midnight absolutely and in zero uncertain terms cannot be paid back in any way .
"City Under" , which they faithfully rendered cards of all the staff and volunteers for , is tanked . Are you sure you remembered maneuver 2355.hw ? Because i feel like u didn·t remember maneouver 2355.hw .
You want your ******* Baba ?
-Irini Sengir
Exactly. Compared to primeval titan, this is much slower for ramping and significantly less threatening
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