Careful in dark alleys. The Obscura have the card draw version of Desecration Demon (but this one also untaps itself) and a physically stronger yet more flexible Man-o'-war. Good luck out there.
Shakedown Heavy seems perfectly costed for an aggressive Rakdos build that can become a Casuality for Mob Nixilis when you end up drawing him after being removed from combat. Then again, I'm far from the best constructed player, but it looks like a good combination. Am I wrong? (Seriously asking here, I don't know how well such a thing might work.)
Finally, a Cephalid in this set that actually looks like one!
In the meantime, Shakedown Heavy has the distinct disadvantage of never being able to swing for the win. Better hope any cards it provides actually help you win the game...
Shakedown heavy is surprisingly aggressive. I would have expected a 3 toughness from him, I think that card honestly may have some pioneer chops at that cost.
A 3-mana 6/4 with menace that will probably result in extra cards in hand? You can't get value much better than that.
The pickpocket is handy but not nearly as useful.
The pickpocket dude should be pretty great on limited.....
I'm not that sure about the black guy, though, stuff that gives choice to your opponent is never good.
this thing won't EVER kill your opponent, for example.
it will at best draw a card each turn, which might be enough to win, or maybe not.
it's kinda weird.
I think it could be enough, but cards that gives opponents choice is oftentimes is a LOT worse than either of it's parts
A 3-mana 6/4 with menace that will probably result in extra cards in hand? You can't get value much better than that.
The pickpocket is handy but not nearly as useful.
The pickpocket dude should be pretty great on limited.....
I'm not that sure about the black guy, though, stuff that gives choice to your opponent is never good.
this thing won't EVER kill your opponent, for example.
it will at best draw a card each turn, which might be enough to win, or maybe not.
it's kinda weird.
I think it could be enough, but cards that gives opponents choice is oftentimes is a LOT worse than either of it's parts
Normally, yeah, but desecration demon was a huge player back in the day. I think the key is the repeatability. When you put a choice on a one-time spell then you're always going to get the worst option for you, but if you're paying 3 mana for free card draw every turn (plus you get it back as a blocker? win-win) the card advantage stacks up pretty quick.
A 3-mana 6/4 with menace that will probably result in extra cards in hand? You can't get value much better than that.
The pickpocket is handy but not nearly as useful.
The pickpocket dude should be pretty great on limited.....
I'm not that sure about the black guy, though, stuff that gives choice to your opponent is never good.
this thing won't EVER kill your opponent, for example.
it will at best draw a card each turn, which might be enough to win, or maybe not.
it's kinda weird.
I think it could be enough, but cards that gives opponents choice is oftentimes is a LOT worse than either of it's parts
Normally, yeah, but desecration demon was a huge player back in the day. I think the key is the repeatability. When you put a choice on a one-time spell then you're always going to get the worst option for you, but if you're paying 3 mana for free card draw every turn (plus you get it back as a blocker? win-win) the card advantage stacks up pretty quick.
well, for Desecration Demon there's just a handfull creatures one can sacrifice.
making you draw a card is a far easier cost to pay.
this dude won't ever do the killing blow... it's simply impossible.... if your opponent would die or lose a very important creature to chump, then you'll just draw a card and life goes on.
Not saying it's bad, just that it's absolutely impossible that this guy attacks for lethal barring some super weird interaction.... which is real bad for a 6 power creature hahah
at the end of the day, imagine a card that says: 2B
Creature
Defender
During your combat step, Draw a card
6/4
then remember that this card is very close to being strictly worse than what I just described.
Not saying it's bad, just that it's absolutely impossible that this guy attacks for lethal barring some super weird interaction.... which is real bad for a 6 power creature hahah
Desecration demon was also in a standard that included populate so you'd be surprised how long it would get tapped down.
I think you and the other person here are too caught up on this being a finisher. This is what draws you your finisher and gets them down to 8 or so life for the finish. Imagine a phyrexian arena minus the life loss. The six power and Menace just makes sure that there's no real easy trade for this.
Not saying it's bad, just that it's absolutely impossible that this guy attacks for lethal barring some super weird interaction.... which is real bad for a 6 power creature hahah
Desecration demon was also in a standard that included populate so you'd be surprised how long it would get tapped down.
I think you and the other person here are too caught up on this being a finisher. This is what draws you your finisher and gets them down to 8 or so life for the finish. Imagine a phyrexian arena minus the life loss. The six power and Menace just makes sure that there's no real easy trade for this.
it's not a finisher, it's closer to the "defender" dude I wrote below it, really.
This thing is the farthest something could be from a finisher because.... well, it simply CANNOT damage players unless the player chooses to be damaged by it.
this right here 2B
Creature
Defender
During your combat step, Draw a card
6/4
Not saying it's bad, just that it's absolutely impossible that this guy attacks for lethal barring some super weird interaction.... which is real bad for a 6 power creature hahah
Desecration demon was also in a standard that included populate so you'd be surprised how long it would get tapped down.
I think you and the other person here are too caught up on this being a finisher. This is what draws you your finisher and gets them down to 8 or so life for the finish. Imagine a phyrexian arena minus the life loss. The six power and Menace just makes sure that there's no real easy trade for this.
it's not a finisher, it's closer to the "defender" dude I wrote below it, really.
This thing is the farthest something could be from a finisher because.... well, it simply CANNOT damage players unless the player chooses to be damaged by it.
this right here 2B
Creature
Defender
During your combat step, Draw a card
6/4
the card is this, but worse.
The card you're describing is /really good/. Take the enchantment version, Phyrexian arena. It's in a ton of black edh decks bc 1 damage per turn is less when you start at 40, and this card here has no damage drawback and it can legitimately help protect you on the board. The only real drawback here is creature removal is much more common than enchantment removal, but even then at 4 toughness it skips just past bolt range.
You also have the possibility of doing a ton of damage. Which you will find people will let you do, because taking that damage is generally better for them than giving you another lolth, spider queen or tainted adversary or whatever's hip these days.
Not saying it's bad, just that it's absolutely impossible that this guy attacks for lethal barring some super weird interaction.... which is real bad for a 6 power creature hahah
Desecration demon was also in a standard that included populate so you'd be surprised how long it would get tapped down.
I think you and the other person here are too caught up on this being a finisher. This is what draws you your finisher and gets them down to 8 or so life for the finish. Imagine a phyrexian arena minus the life loss. The six power and Menace just makes sure that there's no real easy trade for this.
I wouldn't say this is what draws you your finisher, the thing with the Arena is that it always draws you a card, so control decks made use of it. This guy sounds really bad for control, as when you want more cards, they'll take damage, and when you want to deal the last blow, they'll take the risk and give you cards. If you really want to test this card, put it in a more aggressive archetype so the choice for the opponents will be either take damage now, or let you draw more stuff to damage them with anyway, unlike durdly cards like removal or drawing spells, kinda like how Browbeat managed to see some play, bucking the trend of cards that let your opponent choose what they do ending up as quite underwhelming.
Not saying it's bad, just that it's absolutely impossible that this guy attacks for lethal barring some super weird interaction.... which is real bad for a 6 power creature hahah
Desecration demon was also in a standard that included populate so you'd be surprised how long it would get tapped down.
I think you and the other person here are too caught up on this being a finisher. This is what draws you your finisher and gets them down to 8 or so life for the finish. Imagine a phyrexian arena minus the life loss. The six power and Menace just makes sure that there's no real easy trade for this.
it's not a finisher, it's closer to the "defender" dude I wrote below it, really.
This thing is the farthest something could be from a finisher because.... well, it simply CANNOT damage players unless the player chooses to be damaged by it.
this right here 2B
Creature
Defender
During your combat step, Draw a card
6/4
the card is this, but worse.
The card you're describing is /really good/. Take the enchantment version, Phyrexian arena. It's in a ton of black edh decks bc 1 damage per turn is less when you start at 40, and this card here has no damage drawback and it can legitimately help protect you on the board. The only real drawback here is creature removal is much more common than enchantment removal, but even then at 4 toughness it skips just past bolt range.
You also have the possibility of doing a ton of damage. Which you will find people will let you do, because taking that damage is generally better for them than giving you another lolth, spider queen or tainted adversary or whatever's hip these days.
yes, that mockup is really good.
but this card is far worse.
I mean, it's like every punisher card ever.
You get 2 very strong effects, both are super efficient.
the problem is, it's always the worse of the 2.
this dude is a 6/4 menace when your opponent can block it or take the damage without flinching and it is a 6/4 defender that draws you a card when he can't.
I'm not saying that the card is bad (even though I think it's not really playable in competitive magic)
Thing is punisher cards are overyped every single time during spoilers, not many of them really saw any competitive player whatsoever.
the only ones I recall are Vexing Devil and Risk Factor
Sure, but cards like Clackbridge Troll offered board presence and often was used as a card draw engine than the aggression. Complaining about additional card draw with little strings attached--in a colour notorious for tradeoffs--seems odd to me.
But you do you.
'buster
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'buster
HR Analyst. Gamer. Activist | Fearless, and forthright | Aggro-control is a mindset. Elspeth and Jhoira rock my world.
I'm not saying that the card is bad (even though I think it's not really playable in competitive magic)
Thing is punisher cards are overyped every single time during spoilers, not many of them really saw any competitive player whatsoever.
the only ones I recall are Vexing Devil and Risk Factor
Thi was exactly what was said about Desecration Demon: You can just keep playing more permanents, and then play removal when it gets really big. If this was just passively drawing cards, it's already doing its job. At some point, you will be buried under incremental card advantage. Will there be a deck for this in, say, Standard? We don't know, but if there is, we know why.
The main difference with past ones is that this one untaps if they don't want to take the damage, so you still have a blocker on top of the extra card. The demon was bad because it stayed tap and did not give you a card, just uselessly grew. Risk factor was card disadvantage if your opponent could take the 4 points hit. This one is not disadvantage because you still have the board presence.
I'm not saying that the card is bad (even though I think it's not really playable in competitive magic)
Thing is punisher cards are overyped every single time during spoilers, not many of them really saw any competitive player whatsoever.
the only ones I recall are Vexing Devil and Risk Factor
Thi was exactly what was said about Desecration Demon: You can just keep playing more permanents, and then play removal when it gets really big. If this was just passively drawing cards, it's already doing its job. At some point, you will be buried under incremental card advantage. Will there be a deck for this in, say, Standard? We don't know, but if there is, we know why.
yeah, we know that drawing extra cards every turn is really, really powerful.
thing is... this card is not that.
it's not Phyrexian Arena
it could be played, but the cost of making him stop attacking is FAR easier to pay than Desecration Demon's
if you keep pushing with Desectation Demon, eventually it will start hitting, and he'll be HUGE when he does.
and also harder to block.
This card won't EVER hit your opponent when he's below 6 life, it's flat out impossible as he can just opt for you drawing a card.
and most cards are not worth 6 life, really.
this thing will only draw cards when your opponent cannot deal with it, and there lies the problem with all punisher cards.
sure this card can end up being played. I just doubt it.
It's not even close to the Sheer efficiency of Desecration Demon
at the end of the day, imagine a card that says: 2B
Creature
Defender
During your combat step, Draw a card
6/4
then remember that this card is very close to being strictly worse than what I just described.
Wall of Omens was only 0/4 and you only get one card.
wall of omens also draws a card immediately and replaces itself, so even if it's killed immediately, your opponent is one card behind.
sure you don't have as much reason to waste removal on Wall of Omens as you do with this guy, but those are very different magic cards.
sure this thing's ceiling is far higher than Wall of Omens.... no question about that.
but which deck is willing to play a menacing creature that can never kill the opponent? Maybe there's some, I'm just not holding my breath.
every single time a Punisher card with seemingly 2 very powerful effects is spoiled, this topic repeats itself and then 9 out of 10 times the card reveals itself as unplayable in competitive environments as the set releases.
I'm just betting on the 90%
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Careful in dark alleys. The Obscura have the card draw version of Desecration Demon (but this one also untaps itself) and a physically stronger yet more flexible Man-o'-war. Good luck out there.
Source: Malternativ
The pickpocket is handy but not nearly as useful.
In the meantime, Shakedown Heavy has the distinct disadvantage of never being able to swing for the win. Better hope any cards it provides actually help you win the game...
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The pickpocket dude should be pretty great on limited.....
I'm not that sure about the black guy, though, stuff that gives choice to your opponent is never good.
this thing won't EVER kill your opponent, for example.
it will at best draw a card each turn, which might be enough to win, or maybe not.
it's kinda weird.
I think it could be enough, but cards that gives opponents choice is oftentimes is a LOT worse than either of it's parts
Normally, yeah, but desecration demon was a huge player back in the day. I think the key is the repeatability. When you put a choice on a one-time spell then you're always going to get the worst option for you, but if you're paying 3 mana for free card draw every turn (plus you get it back as a blocker? win-win) the card advantage stacks up pretty quick.
I wonder why the pickpocket’s bounce is tied to the connive instead of being an independent ability
well, for Desecration Demon there's just a handfull creatures one can sacrifice.
making you draw a card is a far easier cost to pay.
this dude won't ever do the killing blow... it's simply impossible.... if your opponent would die or lose a very important creature to chump, then you'll just draw a card and life goes on.
Not saying it's bad, just that it's absolutely impossible that this guy attacks for lethal barring some super weird interaction.... which is real bad for a 6 power creature hahah
at the end of the day, imagine a card that says:
2B
Creature
Defender
During your combat step, Draw a card
6/4
then remember that this card is very close to being strictly worse than what I just described.
Desecration demon was also in a standard that included populate so you'd be surprised how long it would get tapped down.
I think you and the other person here are too caught up on this being a finisher. This is what draws you your finisher and gets them down to 8 or so life for the finish. Imagine a phyrexian arena minus the life loss. The six power and Menace just makes sure that there's no real easy trade for this.
it's not a finisher, it's closer to the "defender" dude I wrote below it, really.
This thing is the farthest something could be from a finisher because.... well, it simply CANNOT damage players unless the player chooses to be damaged by it.
this right here
2B
Creature
Defender
During your combat step, Draw a card
6/4
the card is this, but worse.
The card you're describing is /really good/. Take the enchantment version, Phyrexian arena. It's in a ton of black edh decks bc 1 damage per turn is less when you start at 40, and this card here has no damage drawback and it can legitimately help protect you on the board. The only real drawback here is creature removal is much more common than enchantment removal, but even then at 4 toughness it skips just past bolt range.
You also have the possibility of doing a ton of damage. Which you will find people will let you do, because taking that damage is generally better for them than giving you another lolth, spider queen or tainted adversary or whatever's hip these days.
I wouldn't say this is what draws you your finisher, the thing with the Arena is that it always draws you a card, so control decks made use of it. This guy sounds really bad for control, as when you want more cards, they'll take damage, and when you want to deal the last blow, they'll take the risk and give you cards. If you really want to test this card, put it in a more aggressive archetype so the choice for the opponents will be either take damage now, or let you draw more stuff to damage them with anyway, unlike durdly cards like removal or drawing spells, kinda like how Browbeat managed to see some play, bucking the trend of cards that let your opponent choose what they do ending up as quite underwhelming.
yes, that mockup is really good.
but this card is far worse.
I mean, it's like every punisher card ever.
You get 2 very strong effects, both are super efficient.
the problem is, it's always the worse of the 2.
this dude is a 6/4 menace when your opponent can block it or take the damage without flinching and it is a 6/4 defender that draws you a card when he can't.
I'm not saying that the card is bad (even though I think it's not really playable in competitive magic)
Thing is punisher cards are overyped every single time during spoilers, not many of them really saw any competitive player whatsoever.
the only ones I recall are Vexing Devil and Risk Factor
But you do you.
'buster
HR Analyst. Gamer. Activist | Fearless, and forthright | Aggro-control is a mindset.
Elspeth and Jhoira rock my world.
Wall of Omens was only 0/4 and you only get one card.
yeah, we know that drawing extra cards every turn is really, really powerful.
thing is... this card is not that.
it's not Phyrexian Arena
it could be played, but the cost of making him stop attacking is FAR easier to pay than Desecration Demon's
if you keep pushing with Desectation Demon, eventually it will start hitting, and he'll be HUGE when he does.
and also harder to block.
This card won't EVER hit your opponent when he's below 6 life, it's flat out impossible as he can just opt for you drawing a card.
and most cards are not worth 6 life, really.
this thing will only draw cards when your opponent cannot deal with it, and there lies the problem with all punisher cards.
sure this card can end up being played. I just doubt it.
It's not even close to the Sheer efficiency of Desecration Demon
wall of omens also draws a card immediately and replaces itself, so even if it's killed immediately, your opponent is one card behind.
sure you don't have as much reason to waste removal on Wall of Omens as you do with this guy, but those are very different magic cards.
sure this thing's ceiling is far higher than Wall of Omens.... no question about that.
but which deck is willing to play a menacing creature that can never kill the opponent? Maybe there's some, I'm just not holding my breath.
every single time a Punisher card with seemingly 2 very powerful effects is spoiled, this topic repeats itself and then 9 out of 10 times the card reveals itself as unplayable in competitive environments as the set releases.
I'm just betting on the 90%