And the Big Daddy Ed Roth "Rat Fink" style artwork isn't lost on me either. (Some of you youngins should check it out, you'd probably like it.) I love vintage Hot Rod art but its place is questionable at best on a Magic card.
It's not on a card though? This is the collector box packaging we're discussing. Crimson Vow and Midnight both had very abstract art as well.
True but there is a good chance its on a card as well as its happened in the past.
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Playing since 1994: Currently MAGS (HomeBrew),Standard & Pauper (Pioneer and Modern are degenerate trash formats)
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
That's great, however Kamigawa in its feudal form wasn't well-received by players initially. So it makes sense they would "modernize" it a bit more to attract back those who felt disenfranchised or disinterested from it.
Be thankful we're going back.
'buster
""Modernize" it a bit more"......
*looks at the cybernetic racoon, neon glowing helmets and buildings, and motorcycles*
A bit?
Also, Kamigawa was 17 years ago. There is no one going "oh now that it doesn't look feudal I get back into Magic now. That's all I was waiting for" nor were they going to skip out on this set if it looked like it did back then. Again, Kamigawa's aesthetics were not it's sole problem. To think that would be ignoring a number of other issues that the entire block had and why people were not fond of it at the time (or Magic in general thanks to Mirrodin being too strong.)
And the Big Daddy Ed Roth "Rat Fink" style artwork isn't lost on me either. (Some of you youngins should check it out, you'd probably like it.) I love vintage Hot Rod art but its place is questionable at best on a Magic card.
It's not on a card though? This is the collector box packaging we're discussing. Crimson Vow and Midnight both had very abstract art as well.
True but there is a good chance its on a card as well as its happened in the past.
I'd say this is pretty clearly one of the alternate arts for booster fun that they've been doing for a while now. Doesn't seem like a worthwhile opinion on the style until we see the way they look in the set normally. I didn't mind the weird style werewolf arts in Midnight Hunt but I'd have been disappointed if that was the default look of them for the same reason... but it wasn't and it's likely that this isn't either. Not all of them are going to be hits across the board.
Doesn't seem like a worthwhile opinion on the style
False/incorrect. No, all opinion is "worthwhile". You disagree and that is fine but it does not invalidate my own opinion. We agree to disagree on the art and neither party invalidates the others opinion.
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Playing since 1994: Currently MAGS (HomeBrew),Standard & Pauper (Pioneer and Modern are degenerate trash formats)
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
Everyone is entitled to an opinion, but all opinions are not created equal. "I don't like the art on the box," is a legit opinion, because art is obviously subjective and not everyone is going to like everything. "I don't like the art on the box, and therefore I've decided the art in the set is going to suck" is also an opinion, but it's based on practically zero information (not saying you're saying that exactly, just using it to illustrate a point).
People do it all the time when spoiler season hits. I guarantee you we'll see like 5 cards and people will start talking about how bad the set is. There's nothing wrong with having that opinion--it's just not really a reasonable one.
NO wrong!!! It doesn't fit the subjective criteria for YOUR reasoning. It does fit the subjective criteria for MY reasoning. Hence it is "reasonable".
All opinions ARE equal as well. Some may be true or false if based in fact.
Why people can't grasp that other people have opinions on a subject is beyond me. We agree to disagree and move on. If you can't agree to disagree then that person indeed is the problem. Jeesh.
Playing since 1994: Currently MAGS (HomeBrew),Standard & Pauper (Pioneer and Modern are degenerate trash formats)
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
NO wrong!!! It doesn't fit the subjective criteria for YOUR reasoning. It does fit the subjective criteria for MY reasoning. Hence it is "reasonable".
All opinions ARE equal as well. Some may be true or false if based in fact.
Why people can't grasp that other people have opinions on a subject is beyond me. We agree to disagree and move on. If you can't agree to disagree then that person indeed is the problem. Jeesh.
If your opinion is based on a complete misunderstanding of the facts at hand, then yes, it's not a reasonable opinion. You're still allowed to have it, but having an opinion doesn't automatically make it reasonable.
If your opinion is based on a complete misunderstanding of the facts at hand, then yes, it's not a reasonable opinion. You're still allowed to have it, but having an opinion doesn't automatically make it reasonable.
"Reasonable" does not care about facts.
What is reasonable has many different meanings depending on context (in law its entirely different for example).
There is objective reasonability and subjective reasonability.
(The term "reasonable" is more a estimation of how something is perceived by either the average person or a specific person taking all their knowledge into account, so something can be objectively not reasonable, while subjective it would be reasonable, which makes the entire term highly depending on viewpoint and your estimation of what makes the average)
Both of you are talking about the other.
In a forum like this and in basically any public discussion, a opinion is subjective and the person is most likely reasonable to have it, unless they intentionally want to mislead in some way.
Objectively you cant really have a discussion of what "art" is better and if it fits a theme or not, as the entire point of art is subjective to each person, its a taste you either like it or you dont, the fact that people have vastly different tastes should be evident enough.
----
The core draft-set of cards in a set overall follow a art-style guideline for worldbuilding, which kinda makes them look "samish".
In collector packs and the like, WotC throws the entire world-building overboard and goes with more art-direction (here its some cartoonish anime style, "Neon"-colors and on the lands some more historical asian art-style).
So depending on what product you limit your view to, you can like it a lot, or it goes too far into abstract art, if you like that or not, entirely subjective.
If your opinion is based on a complete misunderstanding of the facts at hand, then yes, it's not a reasonable opinion. You're still allowed to have it, but having an opinion doesn't automatically make it reasonable.
"Reasonable" does not care about facts.
What is reasonable has many different meanings depending on context (in law its entirely different for example).
There is objective reasonability and subjective reasonability.
(The term "reasonable" is more a estimation of how something is perceived by either the average person or a specific person taking all their knowledge into account, so something can be objectively not reasonable, while subjective it would be reasonable, which makes the entire term highly depending on viewpoint and your estimation of what makes the average)
Both of you are talking about the other.
In a forum like this and in basically any public discussion, a opinion is subjective and the person is most likely reasonable to have it, unless they intentionally want to mislead in some way.
Objectively you cant really have a discussion of what "art" is better and if it fits a theme or not, as the entire point of art is subjective to each person, its a taste you either like it or you dont, the fact that people have vastly different tastes should be evident enough.
----
The core draft-set of cards in a set overall follow a art-style guideline for worldbuilding, which kinda makes them look "samish".
In collector packs and the like, WotC throws the entire world-building overboard and goes with more art-direction (here its some cartoonish anime style, "Neon"-colors and on the lands some more historical asian art-style).
So depending on what product you limit your view to, you can like it a lot, or it goes too far into abstract art, if you like that or not, entirely subjective.
If you don't speak English as a first language, maybe don't get into a debate about English semantics. You are wrong.
That's great, however Kamigawa in its feudal form wasn't well-received by players initially. So it makes sense they would "modernize" it a bit more to attract back those who felt disenfranchised or disinterested from it.
Be thankful we're going back.
'buster
""Modernize" it a bit more"......
*looks at the cybernetic racoon, neon glowing helmets and buildings, and motorcycles*
A bit?
Also, Kamigawa was 17 years ago. There is no one going "oh now that it doesn't look feudal I get back into Magic now. That's all I was waiting for" nor were they going to skip out on this set if it looked like it did back then. Again, Kamigawa's aesthetics were not it's sole problem. To think that would be ignoring a number of other issues that the entire block had and why people were not fond of it at the time (or Magic in general thanks to Mirrodin being too strong.)
And WotC does a lot of market research to figure out what people do and don't like with their sets. Mark Rosewater talked in length in the first look video about how they spent significant time and effort figuring out what to bring back from the original Kamigawa that worked and players liked, and what to avoid as a mistake of the original. None of this has been chosen lightly.
The inclusion of the cyberpunk-esque elements was also not done as an attempt to fix Kamigawa, MaRo also already made clear that that theme was something they were interested in doing on its own rights and, in fact, this set was marked to be cyberpunk before it was decided to be Kamigawa. Cyberpunk was not included to justify returning to Kamigawa, they wanted to do cyberpunk Japan and thought this was a good place to do Kamigawa. Specifically, making the cyberpunk Japan world future Kamigawa was decided to be a good way to do the tradition vs modernity theme. Kamigawa being a good place to set the cyberpunk Japan set on made selling a Kamigawa return to the execs possible because the cyberpunk theme was seen as a selling point.
The cyberpunk theme is not there for fans of og Kamigawa, it's there for fans of cyberpunk. The traditionalist part of the new Kamigawa is there for fans of og Kamigawa.
I still think it's pretty funny that all this is over a motorcycle, a vehicle invented something like 135 years ago. It's probably the least futuristic thing in this set full of skyscrapers and robots and such.
I get that it's about how you feel about technology rather than anything rational and you can feel like the weird robots are sorta magicky but you saw a motorcycle the other week and it's lame to see a real life thing in your fantasy card game, but it's still very funny. Next up, some outrage over a gramaphone card.
I still think it's pretty funny that all this is over a motorcycle, a vehicle invented something like 135 years ago. It's probably the least futuristic thing in this set full of skyscrapers and robots and such.
I get that it's about how you feel about technology rather than anything rational and you can feel like the weird robots are sorta magicky but you saw a motorcycle the other week and it's lame to see a real life thing in your fantasy card game, but it's still very funny. Next up, some outrage over a gramaphone card.
If New Capenna has gramophones (and I think it will), I bet the outrage will start all over again regardless of how much of the forum is against it.
I still think it's pretty funny that all this is over a motorcycle, a vehicle invented something like 135 years ago. It's probably the least futuristic thing in this set full of skyscrapers and robots and such.
I get that it's about how you feel about technology rather than anything rational and you can feel like the weird robots are sorta magicky but you saw a motorcycle the other week and it's lame to see a real life thing in your fantasy card game, but it's still very funny. Next up, some outrage over a gramaphone card.
If New Capenna has gramophones (and I think it will), I bet the outrage will start all over again regardless of how much of the forum is against it.
True but there is a good chance its on a card as well as its happened in the past.
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
""Modernize" it a bit more"......
*looks at the cybernetic racoon, neon glowing helmets and buildings, and motorcycles*
A bit?
Also, Kamigawa was 17 years ago. There is no one going "oh now that it doesn't look feudal I get back into Magic now. That's all I was waiting for" nor were they going to skip out on this set if it looked like it did back then. Again, Kamigawa's aesthetics were not it's sole problem. To think that would be ignoring a number of other issues that the entire block had and why people were not fond of it at the time (or Magic in general thanks to Mirrodin being too strong.)
I'd say this is pretty clearly one of the alternate arts for booster fun that they've been doing for a while now. Doesn't seem like a worthwhile opinion on the style until we see the way they look in the set normally. I didn't mind the weird style werewolf arts in Midnight Hunt but I'd have been disappointed if that was the default look of them for the same reason... but it wasn't and it's likely that this isn't either. Not all of them are going to be hits across the board.
False/incorrect. No, all opinion is "worthwhile". You disagree and that is fine but it does not invalidate my own opinion. We agree to disagree on the art and neither party invalidates the others opinion.
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
People do it all the time when spoiler season hits. I guarantee you we'll see like 5 cards and people will start talking about how bad the set is. There's nothing wrong with having that opinion--it's just not really a reasonable one.
NO wrong!!! It doesn't fit the subjective criteria for YOUR reasoning. It does fit the subjective criteria for MY reasoning. Hence it is "reasonable".
All opinions ARE equal as well. Some may be true or false if based in fact.
Why people can't grasp that other people have opinions on a subject is beyond me. We agree to disagree and move on. If you can't agree to disagree then that person indeed is the problem. Jeesh.
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
If your opinion is based on a complete misunderstanding of the facts at hand, then yes, it's not a reasonable opinion. You're still allowed to have it, but having an opinion doesn't automatically make it reasonable.
'buster
HR Analyst. Gamer. Activist | Fearless, and forthright | Aggro-control is a mindset.
Elspeth and Jhoira rock my world.
"Reasonable" does not care about facts.
What is reasonable has many different meanings depending on context (in law its entirely different for example).
There is objective reasonability and subjective reasonability.
(The term "reasonable" is more a estimation of how something is perceived by either the average person or a specific person taking all their knowledge into account, so something can be objectively not reasonable, while subjective it would be reasonable, which makes the entire term highly depending on viewpoint and your estimation of what makes the average)
Both of you are talking about the other.
In a forum like this and in basically any public discussion, a opinion is subjective and the person is most likely reasonable to have it, unless they intentionally want to mislead in some way.
Objectively you cant really have a discussion of what "art" is better and if it fits a theme or not, as the entire point of art is subjective to each person, its a taste you either like it or you dont, the fact that people have vastly different tastes should be evident enough.
----
The core draft-set of cards in a set overall follow a art-style guideline for worldbuilding, which kinda makes them look "samish".
In collector packs and the like, WotC throws the entire world-building overboard and goes with more art-direction (here its some cartoonish anime style, "Neon"-colors and on the lands some more historical asian art-style).
So depending on what product you limit your view to, you can like it a lot, or it goes too far into abstract art, if you like that or not, entirely subjective.
WUBRG#BlackLotusMatterWUBRG
👮👮👮 #BlueLivesMatter 👮👮👮
'buster
HR Analyst. Gamer. Activist | Fearless, and forthright | Aggro-control is a mindset.
Elspeth and Jhoira rock my world.
If you don't speak English as a first language, maybe don't get into a debate about English semantics. You are wrong.
And WotC does a lot of market research to figure out what people do and don't like with their sets. Mark Rosewater talked in length in the first look video about how they spent significant time and effort figuring out what to bring back from the original Kamigawa that worked and players liked, and what to avoid as a mistake of the original. None of this has been chosen lightly.
The inclusion of the cyberpunk-esque elements was also not done as an attempt to fix Kamigawa, MaRo also already made clear that that theme was something they were interested in doing on its own rights and, in fact, this set was marked to be cyberpunk before it was decided to be Kamigawa. Cyberpunk was not included to justify returning to Kamigawa, they wanted to do cyberpunk Japan and thought this was a good place to do Kamigawa. Specifically, making the cyberpunk Japan world future Kamigawa was decided to be a good way to do the tradition vs modernity theme. Kamigawa being a good place to set the cyberpunk Japan set on made selling a Kamigawa return to the execs possible because the cyberpunk theme was seen as a selling point.
The cyberpunk theme is not there for fans of og Kamigawa, it's there for fans of cyberpunk. The traditionalist part of the new Kamigawa is there for fans of og Kamigawa.
RUNIN: Norse mythology set (awaiting further playtesting)
FATE of ALARA: Multicolour factions (currently on hiatus)
Contibutor to the Pyrulea community set
I'm here to tell you that all your set mechanics are bad
#Defundthepolice
I get that it's about how you feel about technology rather than anything rational and you can feel like the weird robots are sorta magicky but you saw a motorcycle the other week and it's lame to see a real life thing in your fantasy card game, but it's still very funny. Next up, some outrage over a gramaphone card.
If New Capenna has gramophones (and I think it will), I bet the outrage will start all over again regardless of how much of the forum is against it.
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Kenessos, Priest of Thassa (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||