This is horrible. I thought we were receiving genuine sea monster support here... the Kraken Horror and the "Kraken, Leviathan, Octopus and Serpent" referencing card are both the same card... and they're technically a Vampire. Ugh. And it's not actually facilitating a sea monster deck. My enthusiasm for this set just completed died.
And here I thought we were going to see more of Innistrad's krakens such as Thing in the Ice
Ha! Maro just claimed the vampires would only be in mardu colors
Any way at last we got Runo stormkirk and the flip side……
my lord… tiro is gonna yell so loud we will hear it no matter where we are because we finally have are sea monster tribal legend
Is it though? I can't even use this card in my Thrasios/Arixmethes deck, and if I use Runo as a general, I wouldn't be able to include Arixmethes, which is completely unacceptable.
I agree with Tiro.
This is very dissapointing.
We all wanted a Runo, a lot of us wanted the Sea Monster of Nephalia, I don't think we wanted them to be on the same card.
They've gone overboard on the transform stuff and mdfc.
So many of these are just two different cards that they stuff on one.
If these were two seperate cards it would be fantastic. As is, it just muddles it up.
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Resigned up after getting lost in the Twitch/MTGS whatever crossover
Been on this forum for 10++ years
Playing since '94
Ha! Maro just claimed the vampires would only be in mardu colors
Any way at last we got Runo stormkirk and the flip side……
my lord… tiro is gonna yell so loud we will hear it no matter where we are because we finally have are sea monster tribal legend
Is it though? I can't even use this card in my Thrasios/Arixmethes deck, and if I use Runo as a general, I wouldn't be able to include Arixmethes, which is completely unacceptable.
Let me get this straight you have been begging f9r years and years for a sea monster tribal legend we finally get it (also easy to flip to the tribal side.)
AND YOU HATE IT ALL BECAUSE ITS MISSING G!
besides the flip side is easily based on the Cthulhu
and this color pairing is more fitting for sea monsters
Ha! Maro just claimed the vampires would only be in mardu colors
Any way at last we got Runo stormkirk and the flip side……
my lord… tiro is gonna yell so loud we will hear it no matter where we are because we finally have are sea monster tribal legend
Is it though? I can't even use this card in my Thrasios/Arixmethes deck, and if I use Runo as a general, I wouldn't be able to include Arixmethes, which is completely unacceptable.
Isn't blue-black the second color pair of sea monsters? Runo finally lets them breathe, and allows for a very different angle for the archetype.
I think Runo is perfect flavor of the priest summoning his eldritch sea god.
Cool we have have a card for each leader of the four major vampire houses, plus the commander deck legend. That just leaves the minor families of Dusken and the 3 others.
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"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
i still have no desire to play sea monster tribal because without green they're just so god damn hard to cast as you'd rather be dumping 7+ mana into winning on the spot
This has to be the second transforming DFC in as many sets where the flavour is that the front side summons the back side (the first such DFC being Jerren, Corrupted Bishop).
Great Cthulhu!!!
Well he looks like a Delver of secrets, it is better as a delver in a deck with lots of creatures (that UB is not known for..). Idm mind having Runo as a wall but one has to wonder on whats the type of deck this guy would be good. If in the future we get somekind of Miracle for creatures than this guy will be really good but rightnow he is lackluster to say the least.
I love the art on the fang series. I've said this before but I think we are going to see an Orzhov and a Golgari vampire legend Edgar most likely is going to be our Orzhov one.
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Embrace the dark you call a home,
Gaze upon an empty, white throne
A legacy of lies,
A familiar disguise
Sing with me a song of conquest and fate
The black pillar cracks beneath its weight
Night breaks through the day, hard as a stone
Lost in thoughts all alone
Let me get this straight you have been begging f9r years and years for a sea monster tribal legend we finally get it (also easy to flip to the tribal side.)
AND YOU HATE IT ALL BECAUSE ITS MISSING G!
Imagine waiting 9 years for minimum tribal support for your tribe and when you get it, it's half vampire, a tribe who got like 4 legendaries/lords just yesterday
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How i feel about competitive players and casual players in EDH: The competitive are german tourists, the casual are italian tourists, both in a italian beach. The italians asking themselves "why are the germans here?" make a legitimate question, the answer is because the beach is beautiful, no matter the country you came from. The italians wanting to ban the germans are dumb, because if the germans pay for their stay and follow the rules like everyone else, they have the right to be in the beach. Hovewer, if the germans started to ask themselves "why are the italians here?"... they would be dumb as hell.
Let me get this straight you have been begging f9r years and years for a sea monster tribal legend we finally get it (also easy to flip to the tribal side.)
AND YOU HATE IT ALL BECAUSE ITS MISSING G!
Imagine waiting 9 years for minimum tribal support for your tribe and when you get it, it's half vampire, a tribe who got like 4 legendaries/lords just yesterday
doesn't matter i mentioned earlier is cake walk to flip to the important side
And the truth is you only miss out on 2 green creatures (3 if you count a Koma coil token) and to explain what I’m talking about all the other ones are either legendary or have shroud so can't be targeted unless a ETB is present on them
and black and blue know a thing or two on cheating creatures into play from the grave and hand
Gyruda is pretty funny with Krothuss. The copy dies but you end up getting to mill everyone 8 and stealing 2 creatures to replace the copies.
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Embrace the dark you call a home,
Gaze upon an empty, white throne
A legacy of lies,
A familiar disguise
Sing with me a song of conquest and fate
The black pillar cracks beneath its weight
Night breaks through the day, hard as a stone
Lost in thoughts all alone
If you don't have something to get rid of the legend rule (i.e. Mirror Gallery or Sakashima of a Thousand Faces) black has more that can utilize Krothuss, Lord of the Deep's ability. If you do...black still technically wins out (for now) by virtue of being unable to copy Simic Sky Swallower period, only making 0/0's out of the Nimbus Swimmer and Verazol, and having gained Rot-Tide Gargantua this set. (Though that could change, obviously).
These are the cards that have some sort of benefit from multiple being around or from enter the battlefield triggers. Most don't benefit from more than one per turn, but aren't usually hurt by redundancy. Three of them are obviously terrible for you, but you probably weren't playing them in Commander anyways.
So what does this tell us?
Mostly that Runo and Grothuss get some benefit as a tribal-ish Commander, but their niche isn't quite "play all the Kraken, Leviathans, Octopi, and Serpents you can."
Instead, it feels like what Grothuss wants is for you to take advantage of two things:
1) Black has a lot of reanimation, and that can get around the mana cost of a lot of these big monsters, then allow you to get some copies in case the original creature gets killed (and long term makes it easier for Runo to keep flipping, because if Runo or Grothuss dies, just reanimate them, and you'll get Runo's graveyard shenanigans too.)
2) Black shares a piece of tech with Blue that also plays in with Grothuss' ability: The ability to change a creature's type. Arcane Adaptation, Conspiracy, Amorphous Axe, and Maskwood Nexus will let you copy any creature multiple times.
So, in summation, I think Runo is designed to open up a different path on the Kraken, Leviathan, Octopus, Serpent deckbuilding strategy, rather than continue to slot into the same kind of deck.
That said, if you wanna play all three colors? The Mimeoplasm will technically be a Kraken, Leviathan, Octopus, or Serpent. If you want it to be.
Let me get this straight you have been begging f9r years and years for a sea monster tribal legend we finally get it (also easy to flip to the tribal side.)
AND YOU HATE IT ALL BECAUSE ITS MISSING G!
Imagine waiting 9 years for minimum tribal support for your tribe and when you get it, it's half vampire, a tribe who got like 4 legendaries/lords just yesterday
I’m relieved someone understands. Fracturing an already incoherent, poorly supported tribe into further niche dead ends with a card that isn’t even inherently a member of the tribe is not “support.” The fact it’s a vampire only worsens the glaring disparity of tribal support.
I admire Runo and even desired a card for his character, but not at the expense of two possible support opportunities, which were squandered.
Booting my beloved copy of Arixmethes to shoehorn in an incoherent vampire because it’s all WOTC decided to bother releasing is a rather unsettling suggestion that I will not consider.
I was counting on this set reinvigorating me to play again following my COVID stasis but Eh
Given that Runo worships the seas and its monsters as fervently as you do, Tiro, I don't think it's incoherent. Not your style, absolutely, but not incoherent. You might just have to face facts that the Gothic/Eldritch Horror Plane isn't a terribly good fit for your "wonders of the deep" type flavor.
There is a very good chance Krothuss would have been UB regardless of if they was a transform card with Runo or not. And if your really wanted too just play BUG.
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"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
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Let this great clan rest in peace (2001-2011)
Runo did not take Emrakul's sealing into the moon well. He's bringing THAT to the wedding?
And here I thought we were going to see more of Innistrad's krakens such as Thing in the Ice
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Kenessos, Priest of Thassa (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||
Any way at last we got Runo stormkirk and the flip side…
oh boy sea monster tribal legend
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Kenessos, Priest of Thassa (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||
Let this great clan rest in peace (2001-2011)
This is very dissapointing.
We all wanted a Runo, a lot of us wanted the Sea Monster of Nephalia, I don't think we wanted them to be on the same card.
They've gone overboard on the transform stuff and mdfc.
So many of these are just two different cards that they stuff on one.
If these were two seperate cards it would be fantastic. As is, it just muddles it up.
Been on this forum for 10++ years
Playing since '94
Let me get this straight you have been begging f9r years and years for a sea monster tribal legend we finally get it (also easy to flip to the tribal side.)
AND YOU HATE IT ALL BECAUSE ITS MISSING G!
besides the flip side is easily based on the Cthulhu
and this color pairing is more fitting for sea monsters
and He lets you run these guys
and on top of that you can't target the shrouded and legendary ones with the legend if you exclude those you only miss out on 2 green sea monsters
Cool we have have a card for each leader of the four major vampire houses, plus the commander deck legend. That just leaves the minor families of Dusken and the 3 others.
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
i still have no desire to play sea monster tribal because without green they're just so god damn hard to cast as you'd rather be dumping 7+ mana into winning on the spot
get Quest for Ula's Temple while cheap
Well he looks like a Delver of secrets, it is better as a delver in a deck with lots of creatures (that UB is not known for..). Idm mind having Runo as a wall but one has to wonder on whats the type of deck this guy would be good. If in the future we get somekind of Miracle for creatures than this guy will be really good but rightnow he is lackluster to say the least.
Icebreaker Kraken
Koma, Cosmos Serpent
Verazol, the Split Current
Wormhole Serpent
Rot-Tide Gargantua
That's the whole list in Standard. Would be surprised if they didn't throw at least one more good one in this set.
Gaze upon an empty, white throne
A legacy of lies,
A familiar disguise
Sing with me a song of conquest and fate
The black pillar cracks beneath its weight
Night breaks through the day, hard as a stone
Lost in thoughts all alone
Imagine waiting 9 years for minimum tribal support for your tribe and when you get it, it's half vampire, a tribe who got like 4 legendaries/lords just yesterday
doesn't matter i mentioned earlier is cake walk to flip to the important side
And the truth is you only miss out on 2 green creatures (3 if you count a Koma coil token) and to explain what I’m talking about all the other ones are either legendary or have shroud so can't be targeted unless a ETB is present on them
and black and blue know a thing or two on cheating creatures into play from the grave and hand
Gaze upon an empty, white throne
A legacy of lies,
A familiar disguise
Sing with me a song of conquest and fate
The black pillar cracks beneath its weight
Night breaks through the day, hard as a stone
Lost in thoughts all alone
Why would you copy a legendary creature without ETB abilities twice?
Bog Serpent
Gyruda, Doom of Depths
Lochmere Serpent
Nemesis of Reason
Rot-Tide Gargantua
Slinking Serpent
Wrexial, the Risen Deep
Aesi, Tyrant of Gyre Strait
Arixmethes, Slumbering Isle
Kiora, the Crashing Wave
Kiora, Master of the Depths
Koma, Cosmos Serpent
Nimbus Swimmer
Sharktocrab
Simic Sky Swallower
Verazol, the Split Current
If you don't have something to get rid of the legend rule (i.e. Mirror Gallery or Sakashima of a Thousand Faces) black has more that can utilize Krothuss, Lord of the Deep's ability. If you do...black still technically wins out (for now) by virtue of being unable to copy Simic Sky Swallower period, only making 0/0's out of the Nimbus Swimmer and Verazol, and having gained Rot-Tide Gargantua this set. (Though that could change, obviously).
That said, how many Krakens, Leviathans, Octopi, or Serpents care about enter the battlefield triggers, or add some benefit if they stick around (aside from being a big boy)?
Aethersquall Ancient
Brinelin, the Moon Kraken
Grozoth
Icebreaker Kraken
Junk Winder
Kederekt Leviathan (though you...really don't want to do this one.)
Kiora's Dambreaker
Mesmerizing Benthid
Octoprophet
Scourge of Fleets
Sea-Dasher Octopus
Serpent of Yawning Depths (redundancy is useful)
Shipbreaker Kraken
Shoal Kraken
Sky Swallower (you really, really don't want to do this one)
Spawning Kraken
Stormsurge Kraken
Tolarian Kraken
Trench Behemoth
Rot-Tide Gargantua
Gyruda, Doom of Depths
Nemesis of Reason
Sharktocrab
Eater of Days (just...ouch)
And if you get around the legend rule: add Wrexial, Aesi, Koma, and Arixmethes.
These are the cards that have some sort of benefit from multiple being around or from enter the battlefield triggers. Most don't benefit from more than one per turn, but aren't usually hurt by redundancy. Three of them are obviously terrible for you, but you probably weren't playing them in Commander anyways.
So what does this tell us?
Mostly that Runo and Grothuss get some benefit as a tribal-ish Commander, but their niche isn't quite "play all the Kraken, Leviathans, Octopi, and Serpents you can."
Instead, it feels like what Grothuss wants is for you to take advantage of two things:
1) Black has a lot of reanimation, and that can get around the mana cost of a lot of these big monsters, then allow you to get some copies in case the original creature gets killed (and long term makes it easier for Runo to keep flipping, because if Runo or Grothuss dies, just reanimate them, and you'll get Runo's graveyard shenanigans too.)
2) Black shares a piece of tech with Blue that also plays in with Grothuss' ability: The ability to change a creature's type. Arcane Adaptation, Conspiracy, Amorphous Axe, and Maskwood Nexus will let you copy any creature multiple times.
So, in summation, I think Runo is designed to open up a different path on the Kraken, Leviathan, Octopus, Serpent deckbuilding strategy, rather than continue to slot into the same kind of deck.
That said, if you wanna play all three colors? The Mimeoplasm will technically be a Kraken, Leviathan, Octopus, or Serpent. If you want it to be.
I admire Runo and even desired a card for his character, but not at the expense of two possible support opportunities, which were squandered.
Booting my beloved copy of Arixmethes to shoehorn in an incoherent vampire because it’s all WOTC decided to bother releasing is a rather unsettling suggestion that I will not consider.
I was counting on this set reinvigorating me to play again following my COVID stasis but Eh
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Kenessos, Priest of Thassa (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"