I’ve been thinking some more golos might be the greatest ban in the history of commander
Because for once the RC banned a card that’s a money maker card for the company’s and now they lost it. In other words this will truely give a indication to WOTC to not make cards 5-color commanders as bonkers as golos
this is why I fully believe in kamigawa neon dynasty if we get a 5-color spirit tribal legend it won’t be a “good stuff” commander.
I’ve been thinking some more golos might be the greatest ban in the history of commander
Because for once the RC banned a card that’s a money maker card for the company’s and now they lost it. In other words this will truely give a indication to WOTC to not make cards 5-color commanders as bonkers as golos
this is why I fully believe in kamigawa neon dynasty if we get a 5-color spirit tribal legend it won’t be a “good stuff” commander.
Golos is a card that scales with all the goodie lands you can search with it, and its a card that makes really go 5-color in a land-themed deck.
Happens to be, that almost all casual slow-af decks work better with Golos than their regular bad Commanders, and there are A LOT of terrible Commanders.
So instead of intentionally making Commanders flat out worse entirely, could be more a hint that there are way too many Commanders that are simply too bad at what they want to do.
So by saying we dont print any good (generic) 5-color commander anymore, they basically say from now an all of them will be terrible bad ... which is far from good news, as you end up with more cards that are just underpowered and under perform (and if you want that, you can gimp yourself by intentionally not including the combos that make Golos strong).
From some comments you have to guess people have some deep seeded hate against decks that actually work and perform well ... like they want the worst possible garbage casual jank and only that is allowed ...
Except, they waited over two years since Golos was printed to ban it, so unless WotC had a big reprint planned, or a Secret Lair or something, they were done making their money. M20 is no longer in print. Golos sold his packs. So while I'd love to agree, I don't think WotC is taking a hit here in the slightest. In fact, if anything, this just increases demand for Codie and Esika, where are still very much in print and are two of the best Golos replacements you can find.
The card is cheap , available in massive numbers and absolutely nobody bought M20 packs to get Golos.
So WotC cant care less for this.
If anything, the fact they dont want to print any good (generic) 5-color Commander anymore (at least till they do it again, which can be any minute) might drive their sale numbers down, as people clearly go out of their way to buy them if there is a 5-color Commander they are always super popular.
I’ve been thinking some more golos might be the greatest ban in the history of commander
Because for once the RC banned a card that’s a money maker card for the company’s and now they lost it. In other words this will truely give a indication to WOTC to not make cards 5-color commanders as bonkers as golos
this is why I fully believe in kamigawa neon dynasty if we get a 5-color spirit tribal legend it won’t be a “good stuff” commander.
RC bans and wotc printings are not correlated in any way. Unless it's a specific commander set where they ask for RC's help, they are not involved. And if they are involved, it's about designing cards and not "print this so we can ban that".
The ban is too close to Kamigawa release date to influence their design. If they made a 5c goodstuff legedn, it's too late for them to change it.
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
How i feel about competitive players and casual players in EDH: The competitive are german tourists, the casual are italian tourists, both in a italian beach. The italians asking themselves "why are the germans here?" make a legitimate question, the answer is because the beach is beautiful, no matter the country you came from. The italians wanting to ban the germans are dumb, because if the germans pay for their stay and follow the rules like everyone else, they have the right to be in the beach. Hovewer, if the germans started to ask themselves "why are the italians here?"... they would be dumb as hell.
I found this statement by the edh rules committee interesting:
"We’ve talked to the folks in Studio X and they understand the problems created by generically-powerful five-color commanders that don’t have WUBRG in their mana cost. We don’t expect similar cards to come from them in the future..."
If they make a 5-colored Spirit tribal commander, it will be OK because it's tied to the Spirit tribe. That alone pretty much prevents it from reaching Golos-levels of boring design that goes with just about any deck.
I think the reason for the Worldfire unban, but not Sway of the Stars is that one is a simple "Remove Everything but decks from the game" and the other is "Let's restart the game, but at 7 life."
For comparison:
Worldpurge: Not banned because it provides selection for everyone and cannot be abused (as easily) as Upheaval. (Also, as a result, not very good!) Upheaval: Banned, obviously. Pretty sure we're all familiar with the dread that is an Upheaval deck. The Great Aurora: Lots of card draw for everyone, and the loss of land is mitigated. Shaharazad: Also Banned. Karn Liberated: Despite having, arguably, more power than Sway of the Stars, there are also way more answers to a Karn than not. World Warp: Well, it's pure chaos. A bit hard to get any extra benefits out of that one.
All of these, including Worldfire, are annoying, but by comparison, Worldfire is less likely than these others to make the game go on for another 3 hours.
I remember one of my friends at my locals who used to run a Golos, Tireless Pilgrim EDH / Commander deck that ran Maze's End as a win condition focusing around blinking / flickering Golos to get the Guildgates needed to win and it was super consistent. I think it managed to win on turn 5 at the earliest though you really needed to Turboland early game to pull it off. Couldn't remember how well it did in cEDH though I never thought it was as oppressive as Hullbreacher in terms of warping the game around itself unless I'm missing something. I feel like EDH / Commander is getting to the point where Blue is getting too many win cons compared to other colors and it's kind of disappointing really.
Worldfire feels like one of those cards where If someone manages to resolve it you either scoop to it or play it out. Jeskai probably gets the most out of it getting unbanned since you basically either create a soft lock or win on the spot with Ranar the Ever-Watchful creating an army of 1/1 tokens or straight up troll your opponents with Teferi's Protection after setting everyones life totals to 1. There's also other win cons with Chandra, Awakened Inferno and Arc Blade though If you're running Rakdos colors Roiling Horror is fun with Worldfire as well. Wonder If the EDH Rules Committee already saw Worldfire's combo potential when they unbanned it but it is what it is.
"Restriction breeds creativity." - Sheldon Menery on EDH / Commander in Magic: The Gathering
"Cancel Culture is the real reason why everyone's not allowed to have nice things anymore." - Anonymous
"For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his own soul?" - Mark 8:36
"Most men and women will grow up to love their servitude and will never dream of revolution." - Aldous Huxley, Brave New World
"Every life decision is always a risk / reward proposition." - Sanjay Gupta
I think the reason for the Worldfire unban, but not Sway of the Stars is that one is a simple "Remove Everything but decks from the game" and the other is "Let's restart the game, but at 7 life."
The comparison really doesn't explain it. Even if opponent float extra mana before doing Sway of the Stars (which is exactly the same thing you can do with Worldfire and your general), the draw is still symmetrical and opponents still got a chance to interact with free spells. Also, game doesn't end immediately, 7 life x 3 opponents still means 21 lifes to take down, which is still a lot.
So really, there's absolutely no logical and coherent explanation of why Worldfire was unbanned while Sway must be on the banlist.
All of these, including Worldfire, are annoying, but by comparison, Worldfire is less likely than these others to make the game go on for another 3 hours.
Worldfire just end games, exactly like a Coalition Victory and those cards were banned exactly for this reason, because ending the game out of nowhere is not on the social philosophy of this format.
The comparison really doesn't explain it. Even if opponent float extra mana before doing Sway of the Stars (which is exactly the same thing you can do with Worldfire and your general), the draw is still symmetrical and opponents still got a chance to interact with free spells. Also, game doesn't end immediately, 7 life x 3 opponents still means 21 lifes to take down, which is still a lot.
So really, there's absolutely no logical and coherent explanation of why Worldfire was unbanned while Sway must be on the banlist.
Worldfire just end games, exactly like a Coalition Victory and those cards were banned exactly for this reason, because ending the game out of nowhere is not on the social philosophy of this format.
I think that what they are trying to say is that World of Fire end games, Sway of Star doesn't. With Worldfire everyone has 1 life, the game will end soon. With Sway of Stars everyone has 7 life, the game will drag on way longer.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
How i feel about competitive players and casual players in EDH: The competitive are german tourists, the casual are italian tourists, both in a italian beach. The italians asking themselves "why are the germans here?" make a legitimate question, the answer is because the beach is beautiful, no matter the country you came from. The italians wanting to ban the germans are dumb, because if the germans pay for their stay and follow the rules like everyone else, they have the right to be in the beach. Hovewer, if the germans started to ask themselves "why are the italians here?"... they would be dumb as hell.
I think that what they are trying to say is that World of Fire end games, Sway of Star doesn't.
Yes I get it. And this is against the social philosophy of the format, as I tried to explain. Sway of the Stars could lead to interesting games. Worldfire never.
its just not going to be a fun card in a format where things like dockside extortionist exist. there's been a huge push for treasures lately and i think that push enables this card far too much. its very easy to just run away with a game, float a ****ton of mana, drop this, and then blammo everyone else as they sit there with their thumbs up their asses unable to do anything. the decks that do jam it will just race to it. its one thing to like idk, combo out or hoof, there's ways to stop that or to deal with that at the very least, and still keep playing. i've seen countless combos interrupted by spot removal, or a clutch piece of hate stapled to a permanent. i've seen plenty of hoofs not do lethal, or get fogged.
this thing though? once it resolves you just scoop. you have that narrow window to counter it, or it basically just undoes the entire game. doesn't matter what you've done or achieved, now its a race to see who can deal damage first, a race that will be lost almost every single time to the deck that played the worldfire because they're playing into that strategy and you are not. thats just not a fun way to end a game.
its very much like how expropriate gets a bunch of groans and half the pod just scoops, but with this you either get to sit there and slowly rebuild or just get blasted out by literally anything, including that single pain land you top decked and needed the colored mana from in order to make any semblance of playing catch up.
you're not even building a perfect machine in most cases. its generally just race to mana and **** everyone, or even late game cast it, **** everyone, and then just wait for them to **** themselves. but omg we have teferi's protection, counterspells! all things that are situational or not even run and not every color has access to those tools either - even less so at exactly the right moment, so its not fair to say they'll just stop it most of the time.
it'll be cute the first time someone does it, but after that there's no fun to be had here for anyone in the pod.
i'm all for aggressive edh. i'm no stranger to combo, or blowouts, but ultimately i DO want to play magic. this inhibits that on every single level.
also i won't miss golos at all, but man was that some slow to act nonsense.
I’ve been thinking some more golos might be the greatest ban in the history of commander
Because for once the RC banned a card that’s a money maker card for the company’s and now they lost it. In other words this will truely give a indication to WOTC to not make cards 5-color commanders as bonkers as golos
this is why I fully believe in kamigawa neon dynasty if we get a 5-color spirit tribal legend it won’t be a “good stuff” commander.
I'm cool with 5 color Commanders, I just think they should have a theme or be hard to cast. Tiamat is fine because it wants you to play dragons. Golos just let you play all the best cards and quickly enabled that strategy.
I think that what they are trying to say is that World of Fire end games, Sway of Star doesn't.
Yes I get it. And this is against the social philosophy of the format, as I tried to explain. Sway of the Stars could lead to interesting games. Worldfire never.
And that's why it's still banned. People will put Sway into lists as a "well maybe it'll make for an interesting story" card, and end up making everyone at the table miserable. Worldfire is a card that clearly communicates "use this to win immediately", Sway doesn't.
And that's why it's still banned. People will put Sway into lists as a "well maybe it'll make for an interesting story" card, and end up making everyone at the table miserable. Worldfire is a card that clearly communicates "use this to win immediately", Sway doesn't.
This still doesn't make sense, because if "win the game immediately" cards are fine then they should unbanned also cards like Biorythm or Coalition Victory, also cards like Worldfire that cost tons of mana, that require a minimum of setup to win and just end games when resolve.
Doesn't matter how you see it, the unban of this particular card but not others just doesn't make sense.
This still doesn't make sense, because if "win the game immediately" cards are fine then they should unbanned also cards like Biorythm or Coalition Victory, also cards like Worldfire that cost tons of mana, that require a minimum of setup to win and just end games when resolve.
Doesn't matter how you see it, the unban of this particular card but not others just doesn't make sense.
It could be that they're using Worldfire as a testing ground to see if the other cards are safe to unban. If Worldfire causes too many problems, it goes back on the banlist. If it's not an issue, then maybe they move on to evaluating Biorhythm or Sway of the Stars.
I doubt Coalition Victory will be unbanned though. Its win condition is far too easy to meet: 5c commander, and then nothing but land ramp and tutors to fetch CV. Probably a consistent turn 5 win, and turn 4 is probably not unreasonable. Not the kind of deck the RC is looking to encourage.
This still doesn't make sense, because if "win the game immediately" cards are fine then they should unbanned also cards like Biorythm or Coalition Victory, also cards like Worldfire that cost tons of mana, that require a minimum of setup to win and just end games when resolve.
Doesn't matter how you see it, the unban of this particular card but not others just doesn't make sense.
It could be that they're using Worldfire as a testing ground to see if the other cards are safe to unban. If Worldfire causes too many problems, it goes back on the banlist. If it's not an issue, then maybe they move on to evaluating Biorhythm or Sway of the Stars.
I doubt Coalition Victory will be unbanned though. Its win condition is far too easy to meet: 5c commander, and then nothing but land ramp and tutors to fetch CV. Probably a consistent turn 5 win, and turn 4 is probably not unreasonable. Not the kind of deck the RC is looking to encourage.
The RC explained the reasoning in the announcement
Worldfire was once banned due to the problematic interaction with floating mana and having access to your Commander. We want to foster a Commander environment where 8- and 9-mana spells are viable and likely to show up in a game, so we evaluate the expensive ones in that context. Unlike Coalition Victory and Biorhythm, which we continue to believe are problematic in that environment, the level of effort needed to make Worldfire effective is sufficient that we suspect it will not be as much of an issue. There are already cheaper ways to do similar things in the format. We believe the social contract and robust pregame discussions will keep Worldfire out of games in which it doesn’t belong.
The general concept of winning the game immediately has never been something that brought bans by itself, else there are a ton of infinite combos that should have been banned long ago, as well as stuff like Laboratory Maniac and Thassa's Oracle. It seems to be more a question of how difficult it is to set up. Sway of the Stars does seem like it could follow to me and was not mentioned in this update, but evidently Biorhythm was considered too easy.
Rule 10 said Commanders were subject to the Legend Rule. It would be the same as if they had rules 87-91 that explained that basic lands tap for colored mana. We don't need a separate rule saying that Commanders are subject to the Legend Rule because they are Legendary which means that the normal rules of Magic already cover it.
Because for once the RC banned a card that’s a money maker card for the company’s and now they lost it. In other words this will truely give a indication to WOTC to not make cards 5-color commanders as bonkers as golos
this is why I fully believe in kamigawa neon dynasty if we get a 5-color spirit tribal legend it won’t be a “good stuff” commander.
Golos is a card that scales with all the goodie lands you can search with it, and its a card that makes really go 5-color in a land-themed deck.
Happens to be, that almost all casual slow-af decks work better with Golos than their regular bad Commanders, and there are A LOT of terrible Commanders.
So instead of intentionally making Commanders flat out worse entirely, could be more a hint that there are way too many Commanders that are simply too bad at what they want to do.
So by saying we dont print any good (generic) 5-color commander anymore, they basically say from now an all of them will be terrible bad ... which is far from good news, as you end up with more cards that are just underpowered and under perform (and if you want that, you can gimp yourself by intentionally not including the combos that make Golos strong).
From some comments you have to guess people have some deep seeded hate against decks that actually work and perform well ... like they want the worst possible garbage casual jank and only that is allowed ...
WUBRG#BlackLotusMatterWUBRG
👮👮👮 #BlueLivesMatter 👮👮👮
The card is cheap , available in massive numbers and absolutely nobody bought M20 packs to get Golos.
So WotC cant care less for this.
If anything, the fact they dont want to print any good (generic) 5-color Commander anymore (at least till they do it again, which can be any minute) might drive their sale numbers down, as people clearly go out of their way to buy them if there is a 5-color Commander they are always super popular.
WUBRG#BlackLotusMatterWUBRG
👮👮👮 #BlueLivesMatter 👮👮👮
No, that was and always will be Primeval Titan
RC bans and wotc printings are not correlated in any way. Unless it's a specific commander set where they ask for RC's help, they are not involved. And if they are involved, it's about designing cards and not "print this so we can ban that".
The ban is too close to Kamigawa release date to influence their design. If they made a 5c goodstuff legedn, it's too late for them to change it.
"We’ve talked to the folks in Studio X and they understand the problems created by generically-powerful five-color commanders that don’t have WUBRG in their mana cost. We don’t expect similar cards to come from them in the future..."
https://archidekt.com/user/71716
For comparison:
Worldpurge: Not banned because it provides selection for everyone and cannot be abused (as easily) as Upheaval. (Also, as a result, not very good!)
Upheaval: Banned, obviously. Pretty sure we're all familiar with the dread that is an Upheaval deck.
The Great Aurora: Lots of card draw for everyone, and the loss of land is mitigated.
Shaharazad: Also Banned.
Karn Liberated: Despite having, arguably, more power than Sway of the Stars, there are also way more answers to a Karn than not.
World Warp: Well, it's pure chaos. A bit hard to get any extra benefits out of that one.
All of these, including Worldfire, are annoying, but by comparison, Worldfire is less likely than these others to make the game go on for another 3 hours.
Worldfire feels like one of those cards where If someone manages to resolve it you either scoop to it or play it out. Jeskai probably gets the most out of it getting unbanned since you basically either create a soft lock or win on the spot with Ranar the Ever-Watchful creating an army of 1/1 tokens or straight up troll your opponents with Teferi's Protection after setting everyones life totals to 1. There's also other win cons with Chandra, Awakened Inferno and Arc Blade though If you're running Rakdos colors Roiling Horror is fun with Worldfire as well. Wonder If the EDH Rules Committee already saw Worldfire's combo potential when they unbanned it but it is what it is.
"Restriction breeds creativity." - Sheldon Menery on EDH / Commander in Magic: The Gathering
"Cancel Culture is the real reason why everyone's not allowed to have nice things anymore." - Anonymous
"For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his own soul?" - Mark 8:36
"Most men and women will grow up to love their servitude and will never dream of revolution." - Aldous Huxley, Brave New World
"Every life decision is always a risk / reward proposition." - Sanjay Gupta
The comparison really doesn't explain it. Even if opponent float extra mana before doing Sway of the Stars (which is exactly the same thing you can do with Worldfire and your general), the draw is still symmetrical and opponents still got a chance to interact with free spells. Also, game doesn't end immediately, 7 life x 3 opponents still means 21 lifes to take down, which is still a lot.
So really, there's absolutely no logical and coherent explanation of why Worldfire was unbanned while Sway must be on the banlist.
Worldfire just end games, exactly like a Coalition Victory and those cards were banned exactly for this reason, because ending the game out of nowhere is not on the social philosophy of this format.
I think that what they are trying to say is that World of Fire end games, Sway of Star doesn't. With Worldfire everyone has 1 life, the game will end soon. With Sway of Stars everyone has 7 life, the game will drag on way longer.
Yes I get it. And this is against the social philosophy of the format, as I tried to explain. Sway of the Stars could lead to interesting games. Worldfire never.
its just not going to be a fun card in a format where things like dockside extortionist exist. there's been a huge push for treasures lately and i think that push enables this card far too much. its very easy to just run away with a game, float a ****ton of mana, drop this, and then blammo everyone else as they sit there with their thumbs up their asses unable to do anything. the decks that do jam it will just race to it. its one thing to like idk, combo out or hoof, there's ways to stop that or to deal with that at the very least, and still keep playing. i've seen countless combos interrupted by spot removal, or a clutch piece of hate stapled to a permanent. i've seen plenty of hoofs not do lethal, or get fogged.
this thing though? once it resolves you just scoop. you have that narrow window to counter it, or it basically just undoes the entire game. doesn't matter what you've done or achieved, now its a race to see who can deal damage first, a race that will be lost almost every single time to the deck that played the worldfire because they're playing into that strategy and you are not. thats just not a fun way to end a game.
its very much like how expropriate gets a bunch of groans and half the pod just scoops, but with this you either get to sit there and slowly rebuild or just get blasted out by literally anything, including that single pain land you top decked and needed the colored mana from in order to make any semblance of playing catch up.
you're not even building a perfect machine in most cases. its generally just race to mana and **** everyone, or even late game cast it, **** everyone, and then just wait for them to **** themselves. but omg we have teferi's protection, counterspells! all things that are situational or not even run and not every color has access to those tools either - even less so at exactly the right moment, so its not fair to say they'll just stop it most of the time.
it'll be cute the first time someone does it, but after that there's no fun to be had here for anyone in the pod.
i'm all for aggressive edh. i'm no stranger to combo, or blowouts, but ultimately i DO want to play magic. this inhibits that on every single level.
also i won't miss golos at all, but man was that some slow to act nonsense.
I'm cool with 5 color Commanders, I just think they should have a theme or be hard to cast. Tiamat is fine because it wants you to play dragons. Golos just let you play all the best cards and quickly enabled that strategy.
This still doesn't make sense, because if "win the game immediately" cards are fine then they should unbanned also cards like Biorythm or Coalition Victory, also cards like Worldfire that cost tons of mana, that require a minimum of setup to win and just end games when resolve.
Doesn't matter how you see it, the unban of this particular card but not others just doesn't make sense.
It could be that they're using Worldfire as a testing ground to see if the other cards are safe to unban. If Worldfire causes too many problems, it goes back on the banlist. If it's not an issue, then maybe they move on to evaluating Biorhythm or Sway of the Stars.
I doubt Coalition Victory will be unbanned though. Its win condition is far too easy to meet: 5c commander, and then nothing but land ramp and tutors to fetch CV. Probably a consistent turn 5 win, and turn 4 is probably not unreasonable. Not the kind of deck the RC is looking to encourage.
The RC explained the reasoning in the announcement
The general concept of winning the game immediately has never been something that brought bans by itself, else there are a ton of infinite combos that should have been banned long ago, as well as stuff like Laboratory Maniac and Thassa's Oracle. It seems to be more a question of how difficult it is to set up. Sway of the Stars does seem like it could follow to me and was not mentioned in this update, but evidently Biorhythm was considered too easy.
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Kenessos, Priest of Thassa (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||
2023 Average Peasant Cube|and Discussion
Because I have more decks than fit in a signature
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Yeah that's Winter Orb.
https://archidekt.com/user/71716
I can live with it either way, rift or no rift. I personally think it's a bit much. Evacuation, sure, no problem. But all non-land makes me go ugh
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Kenessos, Priest of Thassa (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||