Modern Event Decks were a one year thing. Brawl decks were a one year thing. Do you think the Pioneer Challenger decks are going to be a one year thing, or is it going to be an annual thing? If the Pioneer Challenger decks flop, I really hope, because they got rid of the core set, and thus the Planeswalker Decks that go with it, that they have some sort of 60-card preconstructed product released in the fall. I don't want to be limited to just the 4 Challenger Decks and the Arena Starter kit.
I already complained enough about how the D&D set did not have Planeswalker Decks, and how every set from now on will feature Commander Decks, and that my options for 60-card precons have become more limited than before, so I hope that if the Pioneer Challenger Decks fail, there are replacement 60-card deck product line for them. I will complain even more if WOTC introduces yet even more Commander Deck options in lieu of the 60-card variety. In 2021, there are 10 60-card precons and 15 commander decks.
Ideally, I would like to see 60-card precons be brought back as the set associated precons, but only for the sets that have 2 Commander deck choices. These decks would replace the Arena Starter Kit, well not replace, but the Arena Starter Kit won't be one package containing 2 decks but 2 separate deck choices released with each set. So each year would have one set containing the 5 annual major Commander deck release, and the other 3 sets would contain the 2 Commander deck and the 2 60-card precons that contains code cards that can bring the deck into MTG Arena. It's not really adding anything. It is just replacing what would have been the Pionner Challenger Decks, if it fails, and the Arena Starter Kit. There would still be 10 60-card deck options.
The Brawl decks failed because they foolishly decided not to have them come with an Arena code.
Honestly a Brawl Historical 100 deck with Arena code that can also be used for Commander would be hugely popular.
Maybe a pre-construction Historic Decks with Arena codes would do well (I see Arena codes being hugely important in none Commander pre-construction decks).
Do you know what getting rid of Core Set means? It means that every set's associated precons are Commander. I hate that. Can't they just release 2 Commander Decks and 2 Planeswalker Decks? Y'know, give new players the choice?
We used to have 24 preconstructed decks that you could buy for under $25 after taxes. You have the 20 Intro Packs and the 4 duel decks, well 2 sets of 2 duel decks. All we have in 2021 are the 2 Arena Starter Kit decks, and the next cheapest option would be the $30 challenger decks.
We also don't know how much the Innistrad midnight Hunt commander decks will cost, but a store is selling it for $85 on preorder.
Cardfight Vanguard has $5 Start Decks. They aren't half decks or decks where you have to do something to make a complete deck. They are full 50 card decks. There are also 5 to choose from. That's cheap, and you get some choices. In 2021, Yugioh has 4 choices of under $15 precon decks and Pokemon has 6 choices. MTG only has 2, well you buy the thing and you get both in the form of the Arena Starter Kit. Anything else is higher than $20.
Because Commander is so popular, WOTC has no incentive to make Standard good anymore. Just keep on selling $50 commander decks, and keep releasing standard sets that people will buy without even thinking about the health of the format.
If I made a game, and someone else took my game, changed the rules a bit, and now everybody else is playing my game by the new rules, while I am desperately trying to get new players to play by my rules, I'd give up, and get people to play by the new rules, because that is where the money is.
There are deck construction rules, like 60-card, 100 card singleton, 40 card limited, and the gameplay rules, like your base rules, Commander, Vanguard, Archenemy, and Planechase. I've said this before. WOTC is over supporting Commander because they lack the confidence to make the base rules better than Commander. They aren't trying anymore.
You want reprints? Try our $10 a pack masters sets.
I'm pretty sure I already read this rant with the almost exact same words somewhere else multiple times. If you're so much upset of how the game is today, maybe is better for you to not play it at all anymore and let the other people enjoy it.
Do you know what getting rid of Core Set means? It means that every set's associated precons are Commander. I hate that. Can't they just release 2 Commander Decks and 2 Planeswalker Decks? Y'know, give new players the choice?
We used to have 24 preconstructed decks that you could buy for under $25 after taxes. You have the 20 Intro Packs and the 4 duel decks, well 2 sets of 2 duel decks. All we have in 2021 are the 2 Arena Starter Kit decks, and the next cheapest option would be the $30 challenger decks.
We also don't know how much the Innistrad midnight Hunt commander decks will cost, but a store is selling it for $85 on preorder.
Cardfight Vanguard has $5 Start Decks. They aren't half decks or decks where you have to do something to make a complete deck. They are full 50 card decks. There are also 5 to choose from. That's cheap, and you get some choices. In 2021, Yugioh has 4 choices of under $15 precon decks and Pokemon has 6 choices. MTG only has 2, well you buy the thing and you get both in the form of the Arena Starter Kit. Anything else is higher than $20.
Because Commander is so popular, WOTC has no incentive to make Standard good anymore. Just keep on selling $50 commander decks, and keep releasing standard sets that people will buy without even thinking about the health of the format.
If I made a game, and someone else took my game, changed the rules a bit, and now everybody else is playing my game by the new rules, while I am desperately trying to get new players to play by my rules, I'd give up, and get people to play by the new rules, because that is where the money is.
There are deck construction rules, like 60-card, 100 card singleton, 40 card limited, and the gameplay rules, like your base rules, Commander, Vanguard, Archenemy, and Planechase. I've said this before. WOTC is over supporting Commander because they lack the confidence to make the base rules better than Commander. They aren't trying anymore.
You want reprints? Try our $10 a pack masters sets.
I'm pretty sure I already read this rant with the almost exact same words somewhere else multiple times. If you're so much upset of how the game is today, maybe is better for you to not play it at all anymore and let the other people enjoy it.
Let me guess, you are ok with WOTC charging double price for a product targeted for new players compared to their competitors, and you are ok with WOTC pandering to one format at the detriment of another. As long as their introductory products, that cost $30 to $50 caters towards bringing in more Commander players, that means that those players won't even try to even play any format that use the base rules, either because the cards are expensive, or they lose all the time. With that in mind, why would WOTC even try to give the effort in making Standard better? With the crappy standard, people would just quit standard and go to Commander, and thus WOTC would support Commander even more, and thus put even less effort into Standard, or any other base rules format, and those players would flock to commander, and thus WOTC supports Commander even more, and thus puts even less effort into standard...
But let's say we live in a scenario where Standard is completely dead. It's all Commander. Remember how the Zendikar Rising and Kaldheim Commander decks costed $25 each? The idea of $25 Commander decks are long gone. I predict that every future Commander deck will be the $50 variety. And they say that these are supposed to replace the Planeswalker decks? Do you know what should have replaced Planeswalker Decks? Almost something that cost just as much as them. Theme boosters are utter trash. I wish they just brought back Theme Decks.
WOTC is thinking about money. Short term gain for long term pain.
You know how we all laugh at those who are saying that Magic is dying? Well in a way it is dying. People would rather play by its alternate rules than its base rules.
From what I read, Pioneer is a dead format, and thus the Pioneer decks will most likely be a one year occurrence. I just hope there are 60-card preconstructed products to replace them, and if they replace them with yet another set of Commander decks, expect another rant.
From what I read, Pioneer is a dead format, and thus the Pioneer decks will most likely be a one year occurrence. I just hope there are 60-card preconstructed products to replace them, and if they replace them with yet another set of Commander decks, expect another rant.
Pioneer's actually been on the upswing recently, despite worries its return would come with more widespread in-person play. Unlike this time last year, the MTGO Pioneer queues are almost always full. As with these Challenger Decks, because it's an Eternal format that doesn't really move much, there might not be a follow-up unless the metagame shifts wildly out of control.
The biggest problem with Challenger Decks in general is lead time. The process takes an entire 6 months from start to finish, including guessing cards from sets that weren't released when whatever their basis for the precons were, were released. Pioneer has no problem because the metagame hasn't shifted all that much over the past year, but Standard? That is a trickier format to catch up to.
Do you know what getting rid of Core Set means? It means that every set's associated precons are Commander. I hate that. Can't they just release 2 Commander Decks and 2 Planeswalker Decks? Y'know, give new players the choice?
We used to have 24 preconstructed decks that you could buy for under $25 after taxes. You have the 20 Intro Packs and the 4 duel decks, well 2 sets of 2 duel decks. All we have in 2021 are the 2 Arena Starter Kit decks, and the next cheapest option would be the $30 challenger decks.
We also don't know how much the Innistrad midnight Hunt commander decks will cost, but a store is selling it for $85 on preorder.
Cardfight Vanguard has $5 Start Decks. They aren't half decks or decks where you have to do something to make a complete deck. They are full 50 card decks. There are also 5 to choose from. That's cheap, and you get some choices. In 2021, Yugioh has 4 choices of under $15 precon decks and Pokemon has 6 choices. MTG only has 2, well you buy the thing and you get both in the form of the Arena Starter Kit. Anything else is higher than $20.
Because Commander is so popular, WOTC has no incentive to make Standard good anymore. Just keep on selling $50 commander decks, and keep releasing standard sets that people will buy without even thinking about the health of the format.
If I made a game, and someone else took my game, changed the rules a bit, and now everybody else is playing my game by the new rules, while I am desperately trying to get new players to play by my rules, I'd give up, and get people to play by the new rules, because that is where the money is.
There are deck construction rules, like 60-card, 100 card singleton, 40 card limited, and the gameplay rules, like your base rules, Commander, Vanguard, Archenemy, and Planechase. I've said this before. WOTC is over supporting Commander because they lack the confidence to make the base rules better than Commander. They aren't trying anymore.
You want reprints? Try our $10 a pack masters sets.
I'm pretty sure I already read this rant with the almost exact same words somewhere else multiple times. If you're so much upset of how the game is today, maybe is better for you to not play it at all anymore and let the other people enjoy it.
Let me guess, you are ok with WOTC charging double price for a product targeted for new players compared to their competitors, and you are ok with WOTC pandering to one format at the detriment of another. As long as their introductory products, that cost $30 to $50 caters towards bringing in more Commander players, that means that those players won't even try to even play any format that use the base rules, either because the cards are expensive, or they lose all the time. With that in mind, why would WOTC even try to give the effort in making Standard better? With the crappy standard, people would just quit standard and go to Commander, and thus WOTC would support Commander even more, and thus put even less effort into Standard, or any other base rules format, and those players would flock to commander, and thus WOTC supports Commander even more, and thus puts even less effort into standard...
But let's say we live in a scenario where Standard is completely dead. It's all Commander. Remember how the Zendikar Rising and Kaldheim Commander decks costed $25 each? The idea of $25 Commander decks are long gone. I predict that every future Commander deck will be the $50 variety. And they say that these are supposed to replace the Planeswalker decks? Do you know what should have replaced Planeswalker Decks? Almost something that cost just as much as them. Theme boosters are utter trash. I wish they just brought back Theme Decks.
WOTC is thinking about money. Short term gain for long term pain.
You know how we all laugh at those who are saying that Magic is dying? Well in a way it is dying. People would rather play by its alternate rules than its base rules.
From what I read, Pioneer is a dead format, and thus the Pioneer decks will most likely be a one year occurrence. I just hope there are 60-card preconstructed products to replace them, and if they replace them with yet another set of Commander decks, expect another rant.
In my opinion pioneer is dying due to two reasons, the rona and historic. I think a lot of people like myself started around return to ravnica days and have physical collections that they can’t really play with. My lgs hasn’t returned to paper magic and last I was there was using the play area as storage. (It’s still doing very well cuz it also is a comic book store). Historic on arena is a lot easier to get into in my opinion than pioneer would be on mtgo. I think they’re are focusing on commander for two reasons. You can still play commander with family and friends even if you can’t go to an lgs. The other is fairly obvious $$$. I do agree with the idea that they should have digital redemption codes in all of their products.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Embrace the dark you call a home,
Gaze upon an empty, white throne
A legacy of lies,
A familiar disguise
Sing with me a song of conquest and fate
The black pillar cracks beneath its weight
Night breaks through the day, hard as a stone
Lost in thoughts all alone
I'm pretty sure I already read this rant with the almost exact same words somewhere else multiple times. If you're so much upset of how the game is today, maybe is better for you to not play it at all anymore and let the other people enjoy it.
Ah yes the good ol' "if you don't like it leave" logic, because you can't not like things in something you enjoy, because if you do then it means you hate it.
Do you know what getting rid of Core Set means? It means that every set's associated precons are Commander. I hate that. Can't they just release 2 Commander Decks and 2 Planeswalker Decks? Y'know, give new players the choice?
We used to have 24 preconstructed decks that you could buy for under $25 after taxes. You have the 20 Intro Packs and the 4 duel decks, well 2 sets of 2 duel decks. All we have in 2021 are the 2 Arena Starter Kit decks, and the next cheapest option would be the $30 challenger decks.
We also don't know how much the Innistrad midnight Hunt commander decks will cost, but a store is selling it for $85 on preorder.
Cardfight Vanguard has $5 Start Decks. They aren't half decks or decks where you have to do something to make a complete deck. They are full 50 card decks. There are also 5 to choose from. That's cheap, and you get some choices. In 2021, Yugioh has 4 choices of under $15 precon decks and Pokemon has 6 choices. MTG only has 2, well you buy the thing and you get both in the form of the Arena Starter Kit. Anything else is higher than $20.
Because Commander is so popular, WOTC has no incentive to make Standard good anymore. Just keep on selling $50 commander decks, and keep releasing standard sets that people will buy without even thinking about the health of the format.
If I made a game, and someone else took my game, changed the rules a bit, and now everybody else is playing my game by the new rules, while I am desperately trying to get new players to play by my rules, I'd give up, and get people to play by the new rules, because that is where the money is.
There are deck construction rules, like 60-card, 100 card singleton, 40 card limited, and the gameplay rules, like your base rules, Commander, Vanguard, Archenemy, and Planechase. I've said this before. WOTC is over supporting Commander because they lack the confidence to make the base rules better than Commander. They aren't trying anymore.
You want reprints? Try our $10 a pack masters sets.
I'm pretty sure I already read this rant with the almost exact same words somewhere else multiple times. If you're so much upset of how the game is today, maybe is better for you to not play it at all anymore and let the other people enjoy it.
Let me guess, you are ok with WOTC charging double price for a product targeted for new players compared to their competitors, and you are ok with WOTC pandering to one format at the detriment of another. As long as their introductory products, that cost $30 to $50 caters towards bringing in more Commander players, that means that those players won't even try to even play any format that use the base rules, either because the cards are expensive, or they lose all the time. With that in mind, why would WOTC even try to give the effort in making Standard better? With the crappy standard, people would just quit standard and go to Commander, and thus WOTC would support Commander even more, and thus put even less effort into Standard, or any other base rules format, and those players would flock to commander, and thus WOTC supports Commander even more, and thus puts even less effort into standard...
But let's say we live in a scenario where Standard is completely dead. It's all Commander. Remember how the Zendikar Rising and Kaldheim Commander decks costed $25 each? The idea of $25 Commander decks are long gone. I predict that every future Commander deck will be the $50 variety. And they say that these are supposed to replace the Planeswalker decks? Do you know what should have replaced Planeswalker Decks? Almost something that cost just as much as them. Theme boosters are utter trash. I wish they just brought back Theme Decks.
WOTC is thinking about money. Short term gain for long term pain.
You know how we all laugh at those who are saying that Magic is dying? Well in a way it is dying. People would rather play by its alternate rules than its base rules.
From what I read, Pioneer is a dead format, and thus the Pioneer decks will most likely be a one year occurrence. I just hope there are 60-card preconstructed products to replace them, and if they replace them with yet another set of Commander decks, expect another rant.
In my opinion pioneer is dying due to two reasons, the rona and historic. I think a lot of people like myself started around return to ravnica days and have physical collections that they can’t really play with. My lgs hasn’t returned to paper magic and last I was there was using the play area as storage. (It’s still doing very well cuz it also is a comic book store). Historic on arena is a lot easier to get into in my opinion than pioneer would be on mtgo. I think they’re are focusing on commander for two reasons. You can still play commander with family and friends even if you can’t go to an lgs. The other is fairly obvious $$$. I do agree with the idea that they should have digital redemption codes in all of their products.
Yeah, well, I used to play the 60-card base rules style of game at home, so it isn't like just because you are a casual player, you just have to play Commander. If the Pioneer challenger decks are a one year thing, I hope there are some other 60-card base rules precon products to replace it.
What about the arena starter kits? Do you think WOTC will continue to make them?
In 2020, we had 13 60-card preconstructed decks and 9 Commander decks.
In 2021, we are projected to have 10 60-card preconstructed decks and 15 commander decks.
In 2022, we are projected to have 6 60-card preconstructed decks and 13 commander decks.
In the fall of 2022, what would be a great preconstructed 60-card product, that plays by the base rules, that WOTC could release in case the Pioneer challenger decks don't pan out? 6 decks in 2022 isn't enough. I'd like each year to have 10 60-card precons. Either 3 releases with 4 Challenger decks, 2 deck Arena Starter Kit and 4 decks of something, or 2 releases of 5 decks each, so 5 challenger decks in April and 5 other decks in October.
I'd like WOTC to introduce a product to mirror Yugioh's $10 structure decks, and Pokemon's $15 V Battle Decks. The Challenger decks is kind of like Pokemon's $30 League Battle Decks.
New Capenna seems like it would be the main Commander release with 5 decks, but I have said it many times. I would like to see a set of 2 60-card decks with MTG Arena codes in them, like the Arena Starter Kit released alongside the remaining 3 sets to go along with the 2 Commander decks. I assume the D&D set with its 4 Commander decks is the outlier and that from now on, ever Winter, Summer, and Fall set will have 2 Commander decks.
I would like to see Core Sets return and release in the Spring alongside the main Commander release while having the Standard rotation in August. The Core sets should not be advertised as the newbie set, but as a reprint set and as a means to keep some cards in standard longer by reprinting them. That release would have the 20xx core set, 5 20xx commander decks (not 20xx core set commander decks), and the 4 20xx Challenger decks. No Arena Starter kits released along side this set. All the other 3 sets would have 2 Commander decks and 2 casual 60-card decks with MTG Arena codes, that focuses on the set's mechanics, because Commander is a poor tool to teach players about the mechanics of the set. Unless the Coven Counters commander deck is filled with Coven cards, then that deck won't teach any player about Coven. The mechanically based decks would be the 60-card decks while things like tribal or non-set specific mechanic strategies would be the Commander decks. Something where you can fill the entire deck with that strategy, as you don't have to draw from the one set that uses the mechanic. I would also like to see MTG Arena have a format where only the 60-card decks I mentioned before, the ones that would come with 3 of the standard sets, are legal. Pokemon had the theme deck format, and I would like to see that in MTG Arena.
If my idea holds true, there will be 13 Commander decks (I am adding 2 Commander decks for the Universes beyond, or maybe a non-standard set might come with Commander), and 10 60-card precons. This idea is only a means to get the number of 60-card preconstructed decks to 10 for each year, in case the Pioneer Challenger decks aren't annual and only happen for 2021. I hope that in 2022, there are 10 60-card base rules preconstructed deck options.
Do you know what getting rid of Core Set means? It means that every set's associated precons are Commander. I hate that. Can't they just release 2 Commander Decks and 2 Planeswalker Decks? Y'know, give new players the choice?
We used to have 24 preconstructed decks that you could buy for under $25 after taxes. You have the 20 Intro Packs and the 4 duel decks, well 2 sets of 2 duel decks. All we have in 2021 are the 2 Arena Starter Kit decks, and the next cheapest option would be the $30 challenger decks.
We also don't know how much the Innistrad midnight Hunt commander decks will cost, but a store is selling it for $85 on preorder.
Cardfight Vanguard has $5 Start Decks. They aren't half decks or decks where you have to do something to make a complete deck. They are full 50 card decks. There are also 5 to choose from. That's cheap, and you get some choices. In 2021, Yugioh has 4 choices of under $15 precon decks and Pokemon has 6 choices. MTG only has 2, well you buy the thing and you get both in the form of the Arena Starter Kit. Anything else is higher than $20.
Because Commander is so popular, WOTC has no incentive to make Standard good anymore. Just keep on selling $50 commander decks, and keep releasing standard sets that people will buy without even thinking about the health of the format.
If I made a game, and someone else took my game, changed the rules a bit, and now everybody else is playing my game by the new rules, while I am desperately trying to get new players to play by my rules, I'd give up, and get people to play by the new rules, because that is where the money is.
There are deck construction rules, like 60-card, 100 card singleton, 40 card limited, and the gameplay rules, like your base rules, Commander, Vanguard, Archenemy, and Planechase. I've said this before. WOTC is over supporting Commander because they lack the confidence to make the base rules better than Commander. They aren't trying anymore.
You want reprints? Try our $10 a pack masters sets.
I'm pretty sure I already read this rant with the almost exact same words somewhere else multiple times. If you're so much upset of how the game is today, maybe is better for you to not play it at all anymore and let the other people enjoy it.
Let me guess, you are ok with WOTC charging double price for a product targeted for new players compared to their competitors, and you are ok with WOTC pandering to one format at the detriment of another. As long as their introductory products, that cost $30 to $50 caters towards bringing in more Commander players, that means that those players won't even try to even play any format that use the base rules, either because the cards are expensive, or they lose all the time. With that in mind, why would WOTC even try to give the effort in making Standard better? With the crappy standard, people would just quit standard and go to Commander, and thus WOTC would support Commander even more, and thus put even less effort into Standard, or any other base rules format, and those players would flock to commander, and thus WOTC supports Commander even more, and thus puts even less effort into standard...
But let's say we live in a scenario where Standard is completely dead. It's all Commander. Remember how the Zendikar Rising and Kaldheim Commander decks costed $25 each? The idea of $25 Commander decks are long gone. I predict that every future Commander deck will be the $50 variety. And they say that these are supposed to replace the Planeswalker decks? Do you know what should have replaced Planeswalker Decks? Almost something that cost just as much as them. Theme boosters are utter trash. I wish they just brought back Theme Decks.
WOTC is thinking about money. Short term gain for long term pain.
You know how we all laugh at those who are saying that Magic is dying? Well in a way it is dying. People would rather play by its alternate rules than its base rules.
From what I read, Pioneer is a dead format, and thus the Pioneer decks will most likely be a one year occurrence. I just hope there are 60-card preconstructed products to replace them, and if they replace them with yet another set of Commander decks, expect another rant.
In my opinion pioneer is dying due to two reasons, the rona and historic. I think a lot of people like myself started around return to ravnica days and have physical collections that they can’t really play with. My lgs hasn’t returned to paper magic and last I was there was using the play area as storage. (It’s still doing very well cuz it also is a comic book store). Historic on arena is a lot easier to get into in my opinion than pioneer would be on mtgo. I think they’re are focusing on commander for two reasons. You can still play commander with family and friends even if you can’t go to an lgs. The other is fairly obvious $$$. I do agree with the idea that they should have digital redemption codes in all of their products.
Yeah, well, I used to play the 60-card base rules style of game at home, so it isn't like just because you are a casual player, you just have to play Commander. If the Pioneer challenger decks are a one year thing, I hope there are some other 60-card base rules precon products to replace it.
What about the arena starter kits? Do you think WOTC will continue to make them?
In 2020, we had 13 60-card preconstructed decks and 9 Commander decks.
In 2021, we are projected to have 10 60-card preconstructed decks and 15 commander decks.
In 2022, we are projected to have 6 60-card preconstructed decks and 13 commander decks.
In the fall of 2022, what would be a great preconstructed 60-card product, that plays by the base rules, that WOTC could release in case the Pioneer challenger decks don't pan out? 6 decks in 2022 isn't enough. I'd like each year to have 10 60-card precons. Either 3 releases with 4 Challenger decks, 2 deck Arena Starter Kit and 4 decks of something, or 2 releases of 5 decks each, so 5 challenger decks in April and 5 other decks in October.
I'd like WOTC to introduce a product to mirror Yugioh's $10 structure decks, and Pokemon's $15 V Battle Decks. The Challenger decks is kind of like Pokemon's $30 League Battle Decks.
New Capenna seems like it would be the main Commander release with 5 decks, but I have said it many times. I would like to see a set of 2 60-card decks with MTG Arena codes in them, like the Arena Starter Kit released alongside the remaining 3 sets to go along with the 2 Commander decks. I assume the D&D set with its 4 Commander decks is the outlier and that from now on, ever Winter, Summer, and Fall set will have 2 Commander decks.
I would like to see Core Sets return and release in the Spring alongside the main Commander release while having the Standard rotation in August. The Core sets should not be advertised as the newbie set, but as a reprint set and as a means to keep some cards in standard longer by reprinting them. That release would have the 20xx core set, 5 20xx commander decks (not 20xx core set commander decks), and the 4 20xx Challenger decks. No Arena Starter kits released along side this set. All the other 3 sets would have 2 Commander decks and 2 casual 60-card decks with MTG Arena codes, that focuses on the set's mechanics, because Commander is a poor tool to teach players about the mechanics of the set. Unless the Coven Counters commander deck is filled with Coven cards, then that deck won't teach any player about Coven. The mechanically based decks would be the 60-card decks while things like tribal or non-set specific mechanic strategies would be the Commander decks. Something where you can fill the entire deck with that strategy, as you don't have to draw from the one set that uses the mechanic. I would also like to see MTG Arena have a format where only the 60-card decks I mentioned before, the ones that would come with 3 of the standard sets, are legal. Pokemon had the theme deck format, and I would like to see that in MTG Arena.
If my idea holds true, there will be 13 Commander decks (I am adding 2 Commander decks for the Universes beyond, or maybe a non-standard set might come with Commander), and 10 60-card precons. This idea is only a means to get the number of 60-card preconstructed decks to 10 for each year, in case the Pioneer Challenger decks aren't annual and only happen for 2021. I hope that in 2022, there are 10 60-card base rules preconstructed deck options.
You math is off for how many Commander Decks we can expect next year.
If we are right and New Capenna gets the 5 2022 Commander Decks and every other standard set gets 2 each, fir 6 more Decks you'd be 11 Decks, but you forgot the 4 Warhammer Commander Decks already announced (even the reprints get new Warhammer art), that brings it to 15 Decks.
But wait there is more because no way does Commander Legends: Battle For Baldur's Gate not get 2 to 5 Commander Decks given Commanders and AFR Both got them. 4 is the most likely number for the reasons and more that AFR got 4 (for playing during breaks with the party during a D&D session). They really emphasized the social and multi-player aspects of Commander Legends: Battle For Baldur's Gate so that will likely extend to the Commander Decks.
That 19 to 20 Commander Precon Decks next year, a huge increase, which I think they'd only have the budget for if they stopped doing to cheaper 60 card Decks. Maybe they will still do the Arena Starter Decks at least.
How many Legendary Creatures and Planeswalkers that can be Commanders do you think CL: BfBG will have.
I think it will be more then CL1, they will want 1 up the previous set. I think 90 new Legendary Creatures, 5 mono colour Planeswalkers that can be Commanders, but for reprints I think all the Legendary Creatures from AFR will get the Etched Foil treatment, but they is the only slot the reprinted Legends will appear in.
I'm pretty sure I already read this rant with the almost exact same words somewhere else multiple times. If you're so much upset of how the game is today, maybe is better for you to not play it at all anymore and let the other people enjoy it.
Let me guess, you are ok with WOTC charging double price for a product targeted for new players compared to their competitors, and you are ok with WOTC pandering to one format at the detriment of another. As long as their introductory products, that cost $30 to $50 caters towards bringing in more Commander players, that means that those players won't even try to even play any format that use the base rules, either because the cards are expensive, or they lose all the time. With that in mind, why would WOTC even try to give the effort in making Standard better? With the crappy standard, people would just quit standard and go to Commander, and thus WOTC would support Commander even more, and thus put even less effort into Standard, or any other base rules format, and those players would flock to commander, and thus WOTC supports Commander even more, and thus puts even less effort into standard...
But let's say we live in a scenario where Standard is completely dead. It's all Commander. Remember how the Zendikar Rising and Kaldheim Commander decks costed $25 each? The idea of $25 Commander decks are long gone. I predict that every future Commander deck will be the $50 variety. And they say that these are supposed to replace the Planeswalker decks? Do you know what should have replaced Planeswalker Decks? Almost something that cost just as much as them. Theme boosters are utter trash. I wish they just brought back Theme Decks.
WOTC is thinking about money. Short term gain for long term pain.
You know how we all laugh at those who are saying that Magic is dying? Well in a way it is dying. People would rather play by its alternate rules than its base rules.
From what I read, Pioneer is a dead format, and thus the Pioneer decks will most likely be a one year occurrence. I just hope there are 60-card preconstructed products to replace them, and if they replace them with yet another set of Commander decks, expect another rant.
In my opinion pioneer is dying due to two reasons, the rona and historic. I think a lot of people like myself started around return to ravnica days and have physical collections that they can’t really play with. My lgs hasn’t returned to paper magic and last I was there was using the play area as storage. (It’s still doing very well cuz it also is a comic book store). Historic on arena is a lot easier to get into in my opinion than pioneer would be on mtgo. I think they’re are focusing on commander for two reasons. You can still play commander with family and friends even if you can’t go to an lgs. The other is fairly obvious $$$. I do agree with the idea that they should have digital redemption codes in all of their products.
Yeah, well, I used to play the 60-card base rules style of game at home, so it isn't like just because you are a casual player, you just have to play Commander. If the Pioneer challenger decks are a one year thing, I hope there are some other 60-card base rules precon products to replace it.
What about the arena starter kits? Do you think WOTC will continue to make them?
In 2020, we had 13 60-card preconstructed decks and 9 Commander decks.
In 2021, we are projected to have 10 60-card preconstructed decks and 15 commander decks.
In 2022, we are projected to have 6 60-card preconstructed decks and 13 commander decks.
In the fall of 2022, what would be a great preconstructed 60-card product, that plays by the base rules, that WOTC could release in case the Pioneer challenger decks don't pan out? 6 decks in 2022 isn't enough. I'd like each year to have 10 60-card precons. Either 3 releases with 4 Challenger decks, 2 deck Arena Starter Kit and 4 decks of something, or 2 releases of 5 decks each, so 5 challenger decks in April and 5 other decks in October.
I'd like WOTC to introduce a product to mirror Yugioh's $10 structure decks, and Pokemon's $15 V Battle Decks. The Challenger decks is kind of like Pokemon's $30 League Battle Decks.
New Capenna seems like it would be the main Commander release with 5 decks, but I have said it many times. I would like to see a set of 2 60-card decks with MTG Arena codes in them, like the Arena Starter Kit released alongside the remaining 3 sets to go along with the 2 Commander decks. I assume the D&D set with its 4 Commander decks is the outlier and that from now on, ever Winter, Summer, and Fall set will have 2 Commander decks.
I would like to see Core Sets return and release in the Spring alongside the main Commander release while having the Standard rotation in August. The Core sets should not be advertised as the newbie set, but as a reprint set and as a means to keep some cards in standard longer by reprinting them. That release would have the 20xx core set, 5 20xx commander decks (not 20xx core set commander decks), and the 4 20xx Challenger decks. No Arena Starter kits released along side this set. All the other 3 sets would have 2 Commander decks and 2 casual 60-card decks with MTG Arena codes, that focuses on the set's mechanics, because Commander is a poor tool to teach players about the mechanics of the set. Unless the Coven Counters commander deck is filled with Coven cards, then that deck won't teach any player about Coven. The mechanically based decks would be the 60-card decks while things like tribal or non-set specific mechanic strategies would be the Commander decks. Something where you can fill the entire deck with that strategy, as you don't have to draw from the one set that uses the mechanic. I would also like to see MTG Arena have a format where only the 60-card decks I mentioned before, the ones that would come with 3 of the standard sets, are legal. Pokemon had the theme deck format, and I would like to see that in MTG Arena.
If my idea holds true, there will be 13 Commander decks (I am adding 2 Commander decks for the Universes beyond, or maybe a non-standard set might come with Commander), and 10 60-card precons. This idea is only a means to get the number of 60-card preconstructed decks to 10 for each year, in case the Pioneer Challenger decks aren't annual and only happen for 2021. I hope that in 2022, there are 10 60-card base rules preconstructed deck options.
You math is off for how many Commander Decks we can expect next year.
If we are right and New Capenna gets the 5 2022 Commander Decks and every other standard set gets 2 each, fir 6 more Decks you'd be 11 Decks, but you forgot the 4 Warhammer Commander Decks already announced (even the reprints get new Warhammer art), that brings it to 15 Decks.
But wait there is more because no way does Commander Legends: Battle For Baldur's Gate not get 2 to 5 Commander Decks given Commanders and AFR Both got them. 4 is the most likely number for the reasons and more that AFR got 4 (for playing during breaks with the party during a D&D session). They really emphasized the social and multi-player aspects of Commander Legends: Battle For Baldur's Gate so that will likely extend to the Commander Decks.
That 19 to 20 Commander Precon Decks next year, a huge increase, which I think they'd only have the budget for if they stopped doing to cheaper 60 card Decks. Maybe they will still do the Arena Starter Decks at least.
That's way too much. It makes me hate the format even more.
As long as we get 10 60-card base rules precons per year, I don't care about how many Commander decks we get. Considering how Commander decks are $50 each and each game can be very long, any player won't even have the time and money to even try out all the decks. So what's the point in having so many? At least with Intro Packs, they are cheap, so I can buy all of them without spending too much, and your standard 1 v 1 games don't last very long, and thus I can play through many of the decks to get a feel for the set. You don't get a feel for all the mechanics unless you play with all of the set associated precons. Commander being $50 and the games lasting very long don't do that.
WOTC is thinking about money, not the game. It makes Yugioh fans calling Konami "Komoney" seem like nothing. All this pandering to Commander is because that is where the money is coming in, and they have every excuse to not even try with any of the other formats, and to charge $50 for each precon instead of $15.
Despite Commander being popular, WOTC needs to recognize that Commander is the alternate format, just like speed duels in Yugioh.
I'm pretty sure I already read this rant with the almost exact same words somewhere else multiple times. If you're so much upset of how the game is today, maybe is better for you to not play it at all anymore and let the other people enjoy it.
Ah yes the good ol' "if you don't like it leave" logic, because you can't not like things in something you enjoy, because if you do then it means you hate it.
This particular user is kinda obsessed with this argument, so much obsessed that, as I said, he even copy-paste literally the same wall of text in any contest for years. I wasn't talking in general. That's why I said if he was so obsessed for something that he got anyway no power over, it was better for him to enjoy something else instead of being so much frustrated and obsessed about EDH being popular over the old precon decks.
I'm pretty sure I already read this rant with the almost exact same words somewhere else multiple times. If you're so much upset of how the game is today, maybe is better for you to not play it at all anymore and let the other people enjoy it.
Ah yes the good ol' "if you don't like it leave" logic, because you can't not like things in something you enjoy, because if you do then it means you hate it.
This particular user is kinda obsessed with this argument, so much obsessed that, as I said, he even copy-paste literally the same wall of text in any contest for years. I wasn't talking in general. That's why I said if he was so obsessed for something that he got anyway no power over, it was better for him to enjoy something else instead of being so much frustrated and obsessed about EDH being popular over the old precon decks.
Years? Hahahaha you're funny. Years. This person thinks 2 months is "years". Find a post where I complained about Commander in the year 2020 and earlier. I had one long argument about this in April of 2021 when it was announced that D&D set would have commander decks, and in this thread. The only other time I probably complained was when intro packs became Planeswalker decks. I guess 2 years, albeit not consecutive, counts as "years". Also notice that I never made this "wall of text" when it was first announced that Planeswalker decks were becoming commander decks, sometime in late 2019/early 2020?
When it comes to wanting Theme Decks back or any post about intro packs, I have posted about it over the years. About how WOTC unfairly pandering to Commander when it came to precons, then by your definition, 2 months = years.
Ok 3 months, April, May, and September 2021 in 3 separate threads.
Do you know what getting rid of Core Set means? It means that every set's associated precons are Commander. I hate that. Can't they just release 2 Commander Decks and 2 Planeswalker Decks? Y'know, give new players the choice?
We used to have 24 preconstructed decks that you could buy for under $25 after taxes. You have the 20 Intro Packs and the 4 duel decks, well 2 sets of 2 duel decks. All we have in 2021 are the 2 Arena Starter Kit decks, and the next cheapest option would be the $30 challenger decks.
We also don't know how much the Innistrad midnight Hunt commander decks will cost, but a store is selling it for $85 on preorder.
Cardfight Vanguard has $5 Start Decks. They aren't half decks or decks where you have to do something to make a complete deck. They are full 50 card decks. There are also 5 to choose from. That's cheap, and you get some choices. In 2021, Yugioh has 4 choices of under $15 precon decks and Pokemon has 6 choices. MTG only has 2, well you buy the thing and you get both in the form of the Arena Starter Kit. Anything else is higher than $20.
Because Commander is so popular, WOTC has no incentive to make Standard good anymore. Just keep on selling $50 commander decks, and keep releasing standard sets that people will buy without even thinking about the health of the format.
If I made a game, and someone else took my game, changed the rules a bit, and now everybody else is playing my game by the new rules, while I am desperately trying to get new players to play by my rules, I'd give up, and get people to play by the new rules, because that is where the money is.
There are deck construction rules, like 60-card, 100 card singleton, 40 card limited, and the gameplay rules, like your base rules, Commander, Vanguard, Archenemy, and Planechase. I've said this before. WOTC is over supporting Commander because they lack the confidence to make the base rules better than Commander. They aren't trying anymore.
You want reprints? Try our $10 a pack masters sets.
I'm pretty sure I already read this rant with the almost exact same words somewhere else multiple times. If you're so much upset of how the game is today, maybe is better for you to not play it at all anymore and let the other people enjoy it.
Let people rant, it's what the internet was made for.
I'm pretty sure I already read this rant with the almost exact same words somewhere else multiple times. If you're so much upset of how the game is today, maybe is better for you to not play it at all anymore and let the other people enjoy it.
Ah yes the good ol' "if you don't like it leave" logic, because you can't not like things in something you enjoy, because if you do then it means you hate it.
Actually that's the argument held by signofzeta. Since he likes and wants old precons, we must have old precons. No matter if old precons were faulty products useful almost to no one. No matter if the majority of people like commander precons more. No matter if wotc sells more commander precon. Everyone must discard commander precons and accept old precons because signofzeta said so. His multiple and long rants are worth more than the opinion of everyone else.
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How i feel about competitive players and casual players in EDH: The competitive are german tourists, the casual are italian tourists, both in a italian beach. The italians asking themselves "why are the germans here?" make a legitimate question, the answer is because the beach is beautiful, no matter the country you came from. The italians wanting to ban the germans are dumb, because if the germans pay for their stay and follow the rules like everyone else, they have the right to be in the beach. Hovewer, if the germans started to ask themselves "why are the italians here?"... they would be dumb as hell.
I suspect that militant-Prohibitionists will constitute the white-centric gang in New Capenna.
….
Ok, probably not as that sounds really political, but it would really be an evocative take on the matter IMO.
One could speculate that the criminal elements within the city of Angels may have begun originally as the result of an over-the-top, authoritarian government that accidentally incentivized the citizenry to look to the criminal underbelly as the source of their now-illegal pleasures.
Over time the prohibition interests become more and more corrupt (by a “reformed” or secretive demon perhaps) until all you have left is a Puritanical cult, that’s hardly more salvageable than the more-blatant mafia factions elsewhere on the plane.
Or maybe it’ll be shards again but with an emphasis on an ancillary, rather than central colour?
U or G instead of White for Bant, U or R instead Black for Grixis, etc
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Wizards. listen. The Vorthos community will await the consequences of the Eldrazi Titans' deaths/sealing. We will keep the watch.
“The wind whispers, ‘come home,’ but I cannot.”
— Teferi
I'm pretty sure I already read this rant with the almost exact same words somewhere else multiple times. If you're so much upset of how the game is today, maybe is better for you to not play it at all anymore and let the other people enjoy it.
Ah yes the good ol' "if you don't like it leave" logic, because you can't not like things in something you enjoy, because if you do then it means you hate it.
Actually that's the argument held by signofzeta. Since he likes and wants old precons, we must have old precons. No matter if old precons were faulty products useful almost to no one. No matter if the majority of people like commander precons more. No matter if wotc sells more commander precon. Everyone must discard commander precons and accept old precons because signofzeta said so. His multiple and long rants are worth more than the opinion of everyone else.
Ok, so everybody likes Commander, and that whoever prefers 60-card base rules deserve nothing. Not only that, everybody wants precons to cost $50 and not $15.
It's not about Theme Decks, Intro Packs, and Planeswalker decks anymore. It is about losing even more 60-card base rules precon options in favor of even more Commander decks, and also having more expensive precons outnumber the cheaper ones.
WOTC can release 100 Commander decks in a single year, and I wouldn't care about it. The only time I care and rant about it is if WOTC would rather release more Commander decks while releasing even less 60-card base rules precons, y'know, Theme Deck, Intro Pack, Planeswalker deck, Duel Deck, Event Deck, Clash Pack, Arena Starter Kits, Challenger decks etc. If WOTC can only limit themselves to a certain number of precons per year, and they would rather have almost all of them be Commander decks, while leaving close to nothing for 60-card base rules precons, I will rant about it.
2020, the first year that the set associated precons became Commander decks, we got 13 60-card base rules precons and 9 Commander decks.
In April of 2021, at the time I first ranted about this, we had 4 base rules precons and projected to have 15 Commander decks. We now have the Arena Starter kit and Pioneer Challenger decks, so the number of 60-card base rules precons went up to 10 instead of the 4 Standard Challenger decks we got, which made me start the rant.
Now the rant in this thread is what happens when the Pioneer Challenger decks fail. 2022 will project to have up to 20 Commander decks, while 2022 will guaranteed to have 4 60-card base rules precons. I don't know if there will be a 2022 Arena Starter kit, and I don't know if another set of 60-card base rules precons replace the failed Pioneer Challenger deck. I will rant if they are replaced by Commander decks despite already having 20 of them.
I'm ranting about how because everybody likes Commander, which is false, they get everything, while those who don't get nothing. Sure we get Challenger Decks for the Standard players, Pioneer Challenger decks for pioneer players, and NOTHING for casual 60-card base rules players, but what's to stop WOTC from going Commander, Commander, Commander, more Commander, and even more Commander, while those who prefer 60-card base rules precons get absolutely nothing?
I'm pretty sure I already read this rant with the almost exact same words somewhere else multiple times. If you're so much upset of how the game is today, maybe is better for you to not play it at all anymore and let the other people enjoy it.
Ah yes the good ol' "if you don't like it leave" logic, because you can't not like things in something you enjoy, because if you do then it means you hate it.
Actually that's the argument held by signofzeta. Since he likes and wants old precons, we must have old precons. No matter if old precons were faulty products useful almost to no one. No matter if the majority of people like commander precons more. No matter if wotc sells more commander precon. Everyone must discard commander precons and accept old precons because signofzeta said so. His multiple and long rants are worth more than the opinion of everyone else.
Ok, so everybody likes Commander, and that whoever prefers 60-card base rules deserve nothing. Not only that, everybody wants precons to cost $50 and not $15.
It's not about Theme Decks, Intro Packs, and Planeswalker decks anymore. It is about losing even more 60-card base rules precon options in favor of even more Commander decks, and also having more expensive precons outnumber the cheaper ones.
WOTC can release 100 Commander decks in a single year, and I wouldn't care about it. The only time I care and rant about it is if WOTC would rather release more Commander decks while releasing even less 60-card base rules precons, y'know, Theme Deck, Intro Pack, Planeswalker deck, Duel Deck, Event Deck, Clash Pack, Arena Starter Kits, Challenger decks etc. If WOTC can only limit themselves to a certain number of precons per year, and they would rather have almost all of them be Commander decks, while leaving close to nothing for 60-card base rules precons, I will rant about it.
2020, the first year that the set associated precons became Commander decks, we got 13 60-card base rules precons and 9 Commander decks.
In April of 2021, at the time I first ranted about this, we had 4 base rules precons and projected to have 15 Commander decks. We now have the Arena Starter kit and Pioneer Challenger decks, so the number of 60-card base rules precons went up to 10 instead of the 4 Standard Challenger decks we got, which made me start the rant.
Now the rant in this thread is what happens when the Pioneer Challenger decks fail. 2022 will project to have up to 20 Commander decks, while 2022 will guaranteed to have 4 60-card base rules precons. I don't know if there will be a 2022 Arena Starter kit, and I don't know if another set of 60-card base rules precons replace the failed Pioneer Challenger deck. I will rant if they are replaced by Commander decks despite already having 20 of them.
I'm ranting about how because everybody likes Commander, which is false, they get everything, while those who don't get nothing. Sure we get Challenger Decks for the Standard players, Pioneer Challenger decks for pioneer players, and NOTHING for casual 60-card base rules players, but what's to stop WOTC from going Commander, Commander, Commander, more Commander, and even more Commander, while those who prefer 60-card base rules precons get absolutely nothing?
Commander products print money and Wizards/Hasbro are 100% about the money.
I only buy singles and have fun playing the game with my friends. I more or less completely stopped caring about new releases.
I'm pretty sure I already read this rant with the almost exact same words somewhere else multiple times. If you're so much upset of how the game is today, maybe is better for you to not play it at all anymore and let the other people enjoy it.
Ah yes the good ol' "if you don't like it leave" logic, because you can't not like things in something you enjoy, because if you do then it means you hate it.
Actually that's the argument held by signofzeta. Since he likes and wants old precons, we must have old precons. No matter if old precons were faulty products useful almost to no one. No matter if the majority of people like commander precons more. No matter if wotc sells more commander precon. Everyone must discard commander precons and accept old precons because signofzeta said so. His multiple and long rants are worth more than the opinion of everyone else.
Ok, so everybody likes Commander, and that whoever prefers 60-card base rules deserve nothing. Not only that, everybody wants precons to cost $50 and not $15.
It's not about Theme Decks, Intro Packs, and Planeswalker decks anymore. It is about losing even more 60-card base rules precon options in favor of even more Commander decks, and also having more expensive precons outnumber the cheaper ones.
WOTC can release 100 Commander decks in a single year, and I wouldn't care about it. The only time I care and rant about it is if WOTC would rather release more Commander decks while releasing even less 60-card base rules precons, y'know, Theme Deck, Intro Pack, Planeswalker deck, Duel Deck, Event Deck, Clash Pack, Arena Starter Kits, Challenger decks etc. If WOTC can only limit themselves to a certain number of precons per year, and they would rather have almost all of them be Commander decks, while leaving close to nothing for 60-card base rules precons, I will rant about it.
2020, the first year that the set associated precons became Commander decks, we got 13 60-card base rules precons and 9 Commander decks.
In April of 2021, at the time I first ranted about this, we had 4 base rules precons and projected to have 15 Commander decks. We now have the Arena Starter kit and Pioneer Challenger decks, so the number of 60-card base rules precons went up to 10 instead of the 4 Standard Challenger decks we got, which made me start the rant.
Now the rant in this thread is what happens when the Pioneer Challenger decks fail. 2022 will project to have up to 20 Commander decks, while 2022 will guaranteed to have 4 60-card base rules precons. I don't know if there will be a 2022 Arena Starter kit, and I don't know if another set of 60-card base rules precons replace the failed Pioneer Challenger deck. I will rant if they are replaced by Commander decks despite already having 20 of them.
I'm ranting about how because everybody likes Commander, which is false, they get everything, while those who don't get nothing. Sure we get Challenger Decks for the Standard players, Pioneer Challenger decks for pioneer players, and NOTHING for casual 60-card base rules players, but what's to stop WOTC from going Commander, Commander, Commander, more Commander, and even more Commander, while those who prefer 60-card base rules precons get absolutely nothing?
You’re definitely ranting, but aside from that I don’t know what else.
People’s interests aren’t obligated to match or follow yours- or even mine for that matter.
Fair is where you get cotton-candy, that’s about it.
WotC because focused on what’s marketable, what’s in demand- that’s what people apparently want and are willing to spend on these days.
So be it.
I loved the planeswalker decks. I loved introducing people to MtG through these decks. But apparently I’m not like everyone else, and I’ve just gotta suck it up until interests change- as they have and do.
Again, so be it.
When was the last time they printed Planechase? A Two-headed Giant product?
Has Oathbreaker ever gotten formal attention?
Yeesh. Rant away I guess but I’ve got the world’s smallest fiddle to play as you do so.
Ok, so everybody likes Commander, and that whoever prefers 60-card base rules deserve nothing. Not only that, everybody wants precons to cost $50 and not $15.
You are irrational it's not even fun. There are expensive commander precons and cheap commander precons. Zendikar Rising, Kaldheim and Commander Legends all had cheap precons. Nowhere they said they would remove cheap precons. In fact Innistrad ones won't cost as much as Strixhaven/Forgotten Realms ones.
Also a 15$ commander precons is worth more than a 5$ old precons, because you don't have to discard that as soon as you learn how to play. You talk about entry products for standard, but old precons were absolutely worthless for playing standard.
The only time I care and rant about it is if WOTC would rather release more Commander decks while releasing even less 60-card base rules precons, y'know, Theme Deck, Intro Pack, Planeswalker deck, Duel Deck, Event Deck, Clash Pack, Arena Starter Kits, Challenger decks etc. If WOTC can only limit themselves to a certain number of precons per year, and they would rather have almost all of them be Commander decks, while leaving close to nothing for 60-card base rules precons, I will rant about it.
I wonder why they would keep releasing successfull products and stop releasing failed ones.... it's a mystery, really...
2022 will project to have up to 20 Commander decks
Wow i wonder why. Oh yeah because they know they will sell them.
You are actually gonna get a 60 card precon this year. The pioneer decks. So why are you ranting?
Oh yeah, you are already saying they will fail. Eheheh, i really wonder why wotc doesn't print more of those...
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How i feel about competitive players and casual players in EDH: The competitive are german tourists, the casual are italian tourists, both in a italian beach. The italians asking themselves "why are the germans here?" make a legitimate question, the answer is because the beach is beautiful, no matter the country you came from. The italians wanting to ban the germans are dumb, because if the germans pay for their stay and follow the rules like everyone else, they have the right to be in the beach. Hovewer, if the germans started to ask themselves "why are the italians here?"... they would be dumb as hell.
I'm pretty sure I already read this rant with the almost exact same words somewhere else multiple times. If you're so much upset of how the game is today, maybe is better for you to not play it at all anymore and let the other people enjoy it.
Ah yes the good ol' "if you don't like it leave" logic, because you can't not like things in something you enjoy, because if you do then it means you hate it.
Actually that's the argument held by signofzeta. Since he likes and wants old precons, we must have old precons. No matter if old precons were faulty products useful almost to no one. No matter if the majority of people like commander precons more. No matter if wotc sells more commander precon. Everyone must discard commander precons and accept old precons because signofzeta said so. His multiple and long rants are worth more than the opinion of everyone else.
He's upset like many older players that Commander completely just bumrushed "classic" 60-card casual Magic and it just wasn't even kind of subtle. Commander just TOOK OVER (good, bad, whatever..it's HAPPENING!!)
All the 'casual' precons are now Commander precons. 60-card casual isn't really a thing they even talk about anymore and that's a little sad. People have been playing that way since Alpha. Our format had regular internet content & articles each week. We had metas. We had staples. We had entire articles devoted to game 'casual' game theory. Yep, just like Commander. 20 years worth of it. It really wasn't a bunch of blathering drooling idiots sitting around their kitchen tables "just playing whatever crap we had lying around" like everyone seems to think.
It's frustrating, yes. I don't rant about it like signofzeta becuase (at this point) I just moved on. My playgroup mostly still plays 60-card anyway or we cube. But the older I get, I just have to remember "The dogs may bark but the Caravan moves on." It's okay to curate that playstyle and create and nurture a reliable group of players to play that way. (Hey, just like Cubing!) If you love it, keep doing it. But, you need to accept Commander is what they will be making precons for becuase that is where all the money is.
Ok, so everybody likes Commander, and that whoever prefers 60-card base rules deserve nothing. Not only that, everybody wants precons to cost $50 and not $15.
You are irrational it's not even fun. There are expensive commander precons and cheap commander precons. Zendikar Rising, Kaldheim and Commander Legends all had cheap precons. Nowhere they said they would remove cheap precons. In fact Innistrad ones won't cost as much as Strixhaven/Forgotten Realms ones.
Also a 15$ commander precons is worth more than a 5$ old precons, because you don't have to discard that as soon as you learn how to play. You talk about entry products for standard, but old precons were absolutely worthless for playing standard.
The only time I care and rant about it is if WOTC would rather release more Commander decks while releasing even less 60-card base rules precons, y'know, Theme Deck, Intro Pack, Planeswalker deck, Duel Deck, Event Deck, Clash Pack, Arena Starter Kits, Challenger decks etc. If WOTC can only limit themselves to a certain number of precons per year, and they would rather have almost all of them be Commander decks, while leaving close to nothing for 60-card base rules precons, I will rant about it.
I wonder why they would keep releasing successfull products and stop releasing failed ones.... it's a mystery, really...
2022 will project to have up to 20 Commander decks
Wow i wonder why. Oh yeah because they know they will sell them.
You are actually gonna get a 60 card precon this year. The pioneer decks. So why are you ranting?
Oh yeah, you are already saying they will fail. Eheheh, i really wonder why wotc doesn't print more of those...
Wrong. WOTC could have easily charged you $25 for the Innistrad ones, but guess what. those ones are the $50 variety, according to preorder on most stores I visited. WOTC will never charge $25 for Commander decks ever again. I could be wrong though, maybe the Kamigawa one will be the $25 kind.
Speaking of entry points for standard, those Commander decks are entry points for standard? Most of the deck isn't even standard legal. Do you know what this means? People who learn through Commander will stick with Commander, not like they are going to play Standard anyway considering how it sucks right now.
If every single 60-card base rules precons are failures, it's because WOTC sucked at making them good. First few Duel Decks, good. The last few ones, horrible, well according to most other people anyway. This also tells me another thing, which I said in my initial rant a few months ago. WOTC has no confidence in the 60-card base rules game, which is why we get Commander and more Commander now. What's to say that WOTC does something like, "Commander is printing us money, Standard isn't. Why are we even trying with Standard anymore?"
I already mentioned the pioneer decks. When I initially ranted about that, and that was when we got Commander decks in the D&D set instead of Planeswalker decks, it is because those who like to play 60-card base rules precons get relegated to just 4 choices for 2021. The 4 Pioneer Challenger decks essentially almost brought back the choices that were gone when the Planeswalker decks left. There is still one problem, Pioneer Challenger decks are $50. The rant in this thread is about what is going to happen in 2022. What if the Pioneer Challenger decks fail? We will be back down to 6 choices, the 4 Challenger decks and the Arena Starter Kit.
WOTC cares about money now. They don't care about the game. Magic is dying. Yup, I said it. Magic is dying, well at least the ruleset in which the game is founded upon is dying, at least on Paper. WOTC can just half-ass their Standard sets, because they know Commander will print them money. If 60-card base rules wasn't dying, then WOTC would be confident in printing more 60-card base rules precons.
I am going to assume the Pioneer Challenger decks are going to be an annual thing, and even if it is a one year thing, I will assume that there will be at least a set of 4 60-card base rules precons released in the Fall, opposite to when the Challenger decks get release in the Spring every year. If we don't get at least 10 different 60-card base rules precons next year, or in any year in the future for that matter, expect the same rant over and over again. I will say this. Pioneer Challenger deck will fail not because people don't want them, it is because people don't want them at $50. It's the same with the Premium deck series. I thought that product was a great idea, aside from the price.
Charging $50 for a "new player product" is laughable.
WOTC cares about money now. They don't care about the game. Magic is dying.
LOL. Dude, this is my last reply to you, because I see you're just looping the same rant over and over, no matter that everybody else telling you why you're wrong...
Magic is definitely not dying. WotC has probably never made so much money out of Magic, and was so popular among players since it's inception.
YOU will very probably not survive Magic, and one day abandon the game for one reason or another.
But Magic will surely survive and still go on without you.
Playing since 1994: Currently MAGS (HomeBrew),Standard & Pauper (Pioneer and Modern are degenerate trash formats)
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
Speaking of entry points for standard, those Commander decks are entry points for standard? Most of the deck isn't even standard legal. Do you know what this means? People who learn through Commander will stick with Commander
I feel the point of Brawl was to make a deck that can be entirely Standard-legal, but also be turned into a Commander deck by adding another 40 cards. But the compromise didn't turn out successful enough. I liked Brawl in some regards. Just give me a Commander format with smaller decks.
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Planar Chaos was not a mistake neither was it random. You might want to look at it again.
[thread=239793][Game] Level Up - Creature[/thread]
The Brawl decks failed because they foolishly decided not to have them come with an Arena code.
Honestly a Brawl Historical 100 deck with Arena code that can also be used for Commander would be hugely popular.
Maybe a pre-construction Historic Decks with Arena codes would do well (I see Arena codes being hugely important in none Commander pre-construction decks).
I'm pretty sure I already read this rant with the almost exact same words somewhere else multiple times. If you're so much upset of how the game is today, maybe is better for you to not play it at all anymore and let the other people enjoy it.
Let me guess, you are ok with WOTC charging double price for a product targeted for new players compared to their competitors, and you are ok with WOTC pandering to one format at the detriment of another. As long as their introductory products, that cost $30 to $50 caters towards bringing in more Commander players, that means that those players won't even try to even play any format that use the base rules, either because the cards are expensive, or they lose all the time. With that in mind, why would WOTC even try to give the effort in making Standard better? With the crappy standard, people would just quit standard and go to Commander, and thus WOTC would support Commander even more, and thus put even less effort into Standard, or any other base rules format, and those players would flock to commander, and thus WOTC supports Commander even more, and thus puts even less effort into standard...
But let's say we live in a scenario where Standard is completely dead. It's all Commander. Remember how the Zendikar Rising and Kaldheim Commander decks costed $25 each? The idea of $25 Commander decks are long gone. I predict that every future Commander deck will be the $50 variety. And they say that these are supposed to replace the Planeswalker decks? Do you know what should have replaced Planeswalker Decks? Almost something that cost just as much as them. Theme boosters are utter trash. I wish they just brought back Theme Decks.
WOTC is thinking about money. Short term gain for long term pain.
You know how we all laugh at those who are saying that Magic is dying? Well in a way it is dying. People would rather play by its alternate rules than its base rules.
From what I read, Pioneer is a dead format, and thus the Pioneer decks will most likely be a one year occurrence. I just hope there are 60-card preconstructed products to replace them, and if they replace them with yet another set of Commander decks, expect another rant.
The biggest problem with Challenger Decks in general is lead time. The process takes an entire 6 months from start to finish, including guessing cards from sets that weren't released when whatever their basis for the precons were, were released. Pioneer has no problem because the metagame hasn't shifted all that much over the past year, but Standard? That is a trickier format to catch up to.
In my opinion pioneer is dying due to two reasons, the rona and historic. I think a lot of people like myself started around return to ravnica days and have physical collections that they can’t really play with. My lgs hasn’t returned to paper magic and last I was there was using the play area as storage. (It’s still doing very well cuz it also is a comic book store). Historic on arena is a lot easier to get into in my opinion than pioneer would be on mtgo. I think they’re are focusing on commander for two reasons. You can still play commander with family and friends even if you can’t go to an lgs. The other is fairly obvious $$$. I do agree with the idea that they should have digital redemption codes in all of their products.
Gaze upon an empty, white throne
A legacy of lies,
A familiar disguise
Sing with me a song of conquest and fate
The black pillar cracks beneath its weight
Night breaks through the day, hard as a stone
Lost in thoughts all alone
Ah yes the good ol' "if you don't like it leave" logic, because you can't not like things in something you enjoy, because if you do then it means you hate it.
Yeah, well, I used to play the 60-card base rules style of game at home, so it isn't like just because you are a casual player, you just have to play Commander. If the Pioneer challenger decks are a one year thing, I hope there are some other 60-card base rules precon products to replace it.
What about the arena starter kits? Do you think WOTC will continue to make them?
In 2020, we had 13 60-card preconstructed decks and 9 Commander decks.
In 2021, we are projected to have 10 60-card preconstructed decks and 15 commander decks.
In 2022, we are projected to have 6 60-card preconstructed decks and 13 commander decks.
In the fall of 2022, what would be a great preconstructed 60-card product, that plays by the base rules, that WOTC could release in case the Pioneer challenger decks don't pan out? 6 decks in 2022 isn't enough. I'd like each year to have 10 60-card precons. Either 3 releases with 4 Challenger decks, 2 deck Arena Starter Kit and 4 decks of something, or 2 releases of 5 decks each, so 5 challenger decks in April and 5 other decks in October.
I'd like WOTC to introduce a product to mirror Yugioh's $10 structure decks, and Pokemon's $15 V Battle Decks. The Challenger decks is kind of like Pokemon's $30 League Battle Decks.
New Capenna seems like it would be the main Commander release with 5 decks, but I have said it many times. I would like to see a set of 2 60-card decks with MTG Arena codes in them, like the Arena Starter Kit released alongside the remaining 3 sets to go along with the 2 Commander decks. I assume the D&D set with its 4 Commander decks is the outlier and that from now on, ever Winter, Summer, and Fall set will have 2 Commander decks.
I would like to see Core Sets return and release in the Spring alongside the main Commander release while having the Standard rotation in August. The Core sets should not be advertised as the newbie set, but as a reprint set and as a means to keep some cards in standard longer by reprinting them. That release would have the 20xx core set, 5 20xx commander decks (not 20xx core set commander decks), and the 4 20xx Challenger decks. No Arena Starter kits released along side this set. All the other 3 sets would have 2 Commander decks and 2 casual 60-card decks with MTG Arena codes, that focuses on the set's mechanics, because Commander is a poor tool to teach players about the mechanics of the set. Unless the Coven Counters commander deck is filled with Coven cards, then that deck won't teach any player about Coven. The mechanically based decks would be the 60-card decks while things like tribal or non-set specific mechanic strategies would be the Commander decks. Something where you can fill the entire deck with that strategy, as you don't have to draw from the one set that uses the mechanic. I would also like to see MTG Arena have a format where only the 60-card decks I mentioned before, the ones that would come with 3 of the standard sets, are legal. Pokemon had the theme deck format, and I would like to see that in MTG Arena.
If my idea holds true, there will be 13 Commander decks (I am adding 2 Commander decks for the Universes beyond, or maybe a non-standard set might come with Commander), and 10 60-card precons. This idea is only a means to get the number of 60-card preconstructed decks to 10 for each year, in case the Pioneer Challenger decks aren't annual and only happen for 2021. I hope that in 2022, there are 10 60-card base rules preconstructed deck options.
You math is off for how many Commander Decks we can expect next year.
If we are right and New Capenna gets the 5 2022 Commander Decks and every other standard set gets 2 each, fir 6 more Decks you'd be 11 Decks, but you forgot the 4 Warhammer Commander Decks already announced (even the reprints get new Warhammer art), that brings it to 15 Decks.
But wait there is more because no way does Commander Legends: Battle For Baldur's Gate not get 2 to 5 Commander Decks given Commanders and AFR Both got them. 4 is the most likely number for the reasons and more that AFR got 4 (for playing during breaks with the party during a D&D session). They really emphasized the social and multi-player aspects of Commander Legends: Battle For Baldur's Gate so that will likely extend to the Commander Decks.
That 19 to 20 Commander Precon Decks next year, a huge increase, which I think they'd only have the budget for if they stopped doing to cheaper 60 card Decks. Maybe they will still do the Arena Starter Decks at least.
I think it will be more then CL1, they will want 1 up the previous set. I think 90 new Legendary Creatures, 5 mono colour Planeswalkers that can be Commanders, but for reprints I think all the Legendary Creatures from AFR will get the Etched Foil treatment, but they is the only slot the reprinted Legends will appear in.
That's way too much. It makes me hate the format even more.
As long as we get 10 60-card base rules precons per year, I don't care about how many Commander decks we get. Considering how Commander decks are $50 each and each game can be very long, any player won't even have the time and money to even try out all the decks. So what's the point in having so many? At least with Intro Packs, they are cheap, so I can buy all of them without spending too much, and your standard 1 v 1 games don't last very long, and thus I can play through many of the decks to get a feel for the set. You don't get a feel for all the mechanics unless you play with all of the set associated precons. Commander being $50 and the games lasting very long don't do that.
WOTC is thinking about money, not the game. It makes Yugioh fans calling Konami "Komoney" seem like nothing. All this pandering to Commander is because that is where the money is coming in, and they have every excuse to not even try with any of the other formats, and to charge $50 for each precon instead of $15.
Despite Commander being popular, WOTC needs to recognize that Commander is the alternate format, just like speed duels in Yugioh.
This particular user is kinda obsessed with this argument, so much obsessed that, as I said, he even copy-paste literally the same wall of text in any contest for years. I wasn't talking in general. That's why I said if he was so obsessed for something that he got anyway no power over, it was better for him to enjoy something else instead of being so much frustrated and obsessed about EDH being popular over the old precon decks.
Years? Hahahaha you're funny. Years. This person thinks 2 months is "years". Find a post where I complained about Commander in the year 2020 and earlier. I had one long argument about this in April of 2021 when it was announced that D&D set would have commander decks, and in this thread. The only other time I probably complained was when intro packs became Planeswalker decks. I guess 2 years, albeit not consecutive, counts as "years". Also notice that I never made this "wall of text" when it was first announced that Planeswalker decks were becoming commander decks, sometime in late 2019/early 2020?
When it comes to wanting Theme Decks back or any post about intro packs, I have posted about it over the years. About how WOTC unfairly pandering to Commander when it came to precons, then by your definition, 2 months = years.
Ok 3 months, April, May, and September 2021 in 3 separate threads.
Pffft. Years.
Let people rant, it's what the internet was made for.
Actually that's the argument held by signofzeta. Since he likes and wants old precons, we must have old precons. No matter if old precons were faulty products useful almost to no one. No matter if the majority of people like commander precons more. No matter if wotc sells more commander precon. Everyone must discard commander precons and accept old precons because signofzeta said so. His multiple and long rants are worth more than the opinion of everyone else.
….
Ok, probably not as that sounds really political, but it would really be an evocative take on the matter IMO.
One could speculate that the criminal elements within the city of Angels may have begun originally as the result of an over-the-top, authoritarian government that accidentally incentivized the citizenry to look to the criminal underbelly as the source of their now-illegal pleasures.
Over time the prohibition interests become more and more corrupt (by a “reformed” or secretive demon perhaps) until all you have left is a Puritanical cult, that’s hardly more salvageable than the more-blatant mafia factions elsewhere on the plane.
Or maybe it’ll be shards again but with an emphasis on an ancillary, rather than central colour?
U or G instead of White for Bant, U or R instead Black for Grixis, etc
The Vorthos community will await the consequences of the Eldrazi Titans' deaths/sealing. We will keep the watch.
“The wind whispers, ‘come home,’ but I cannot.”
— Teferi
Ok, so everybody likes Commander, and that whoever prefers 60-card base rules deserve nothing. Not only that, everybody wants precons to cost $50 and not $15.
It's not about Theme Decks, Intro Packs, and Planeswalker decks anymore. It is about losing even more 60-card base rules precon options in favor of even more Commander decks, and also having more expensive precons outnumber the cheaper ones.
WOTC can release 100 Commander decks in a single year, and I wouldn't care about it. The only time I care and rant about it is if WOTC would rather release more Commander decks while releasing even less 60-card base rules precons, y'know, Theme Deck, Intro Pack, Planeswalker deck, Duel Deck, Event Deck, Clash Pack, Arena Starter Kits, Challenger decks etc. If WOTC can only limit themselves to a certain number of precons per year, and they would rather have almost all of them be Commander decks, while leaving close to nothing for 60-card base rules precons, I will rant about it.
2020, the first year that the set associated precons became Commander decks, we got 13 60-card base rules precons and 9 Commander decks.
In April of 2021, at the time I first ranted about this, we had 4 base rules precons and projected to have 15 Commander decks. We now have the Arena Starter kit and Pioneer Challenger decks, so the number of 60-card base rules precons went up to 10 instead of the 4 Standard Challenger decks we got, which made me start the rant.
Now the rant in this thread is what happens when the Pioneer Challenger decks fail. 2022 will project to have up to 20 Commander decks, while 2022 will guaranteed to have 4 60-card base rules precons. I don't know if there will be a 2022 Arena Starter kit, and I don't know if another set of 60-card base rules precons replace the failed Pioneer Challenger deck. I will rant if they are replaced by Commander decks despite already having 20 of them.
I'm ranting about how because everybody likes Commander, which is false, they get everything, while those who don't get nothing. Sure we get Challenger Decks for the Standard players, Pioneer Challenger decks for pioneer players, and NOTHING for casual 60-card base rules players, but what's to stop WOTC from going Commander, Commander, Commander, more Commander, and even more Commander, while those who prefer 60-card base rules precons get absolutely nothing?
Commander products print money and Wizards/Hasbro are 100% about the money.
I only buy singles and have fun playing the game with my friends. I more or less completely stopped caring about new releases.
The Vorthos community will await the consequences of the Eldrazi Titans' deaths/sealing. We will keep the watch.
“The wind whispers, ‘come home,’ but I cannot.”
— Teferi
You’re definitely ranting, but aside from that I don’t know what else.
People’s interests aren’t obligated to match or follow yours- or even mine for that matter.
Fair is where you get cotton-candy, that’s about it.
WotC because focused on what’s marketable, what’s in demand- that’s what people apparently want and are willing to spend on these days.
So be it.
I loved the planeswalker decks. I loved introducing people to MtG through these decks. But apparently I’m not like everyone else, and I’ve just gotta suck it up until interests change- as they have and do.
Again, so be it.
When was the last time they printed Planechase? A Two-headed Giant product?
Has Oathbreaker ever gotten formal attention?
Yeesh. Rant away I guess but I’ve got the world’s smallest fiddle to play as you do so.
The Vorthos community will await the consequences of the Eldrazi Titans' deaths/sealing. We will keep the watch.
“The wind whispers, ‘come home,’ but I cannot.”
— Teferi
You are irrational it's not even fun. There are expensive commander precons and cheap commander precons. Zendikar Rising, Kaldheim and Commander Legends all had cheap precons. Nowhere they said they would remove cheap precons. In fact Innistrad ones won't cost as much as Strixhaven/Forgotten Realms ones.
Also a 15$ commander precons is worth more than a 5$ old precons, because you don't have to discard that as soon as you learn how to play. You talk about entry products for standard, but old precons were absolutely worthless for playing standard.
I wonder why they would keep releasing successfull products and stop releasing failed ones.... it's a mystery, really...
Wow i wonder why. Oh yeah because they know they will sell them.
You are actually gonna get a 60 card precon this year. The pioneer decks. So why are you ranting?
Oh yeah, you are already saying they will fail. Eheheh, i really wonder why wotc doesn't print more of those...
He's upset like many older players that Commander completely just bumrushed "classic" 60-card casual Magic and it just wasn't even kind of subtle. Commander just TOOK OVER (good, bad, whatever..it's HAPPENING!!)
All the 'casual' precons are now Commander precons. 60-card casual isn't really a thing they even talk about anymore and that's a little sad. People have been playing that way since Alpha. Our format had regular internet content & articles each week. We had metas. We had staples. We had entire articles devoted to game 'casual' game theory. Yep, just like Commander. 20 years worth of it. It really wasn't a bunch of blathering drooling idiots sitting around their kitchen tables "just playing whatever crap we had lying around" like everyone seems to think.
It's frustrating, yes. I don't rant about it like signofzeta becuase (at this point) I just moved on. My playgroup mostly still plays 60-card anyway or we cube. But the older I get, I just have to remember "The dogs may bark but the Caravan moves on." It's okay to curate that playstyle and create and nurture a reliable group of players to play that way. (Hey, just like Cubing!) If you love it, keep doing it. But, you need to accept Commander is what they will be making precons for becuase that is where all the money is.
Fully-powered 600-Card "Dream Cube" https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/dreamcube
450-Card "Artificer's Cube" https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/artificer
Cubing in Indianapolis...send me a PM!!
Wrong. WOTC could have easily charged you $25 for the Innistrad ones, but guess what. those ones are the $50 variety, according to preorder on most stores I visited. WOTC will never charge $25 for Commander decks ever again. I could be wrong though, maybe the Kamigawa one will be the $25 kind.
Speaking of entry points for standard, those Commander decks are entry points for standard? Most of the deck isn't even standard legal. Do you know what this means? People who learn through Commander will stick with Commander, not like they are going to play Standard anyway considering how it sucks right now.
If every single 60-card base rules precons are failures, it's because WOTC sucked at making them good. First few Duel Decks, good. The last few ones, horrible, well according to most other people anyway. This also tells me another thing, which I said in my initial rant a few months ago. WOTC has no confidence in the 60-card base rules game, which is why we get Commander and more Commander now. What's to say that WOTC does something like, "Commander is printing us money, Standard isn't. Why are we even trying with Standard anymore?"
I already mentioned the pioneer decks. When I initially ranted about that, and that was when we got Commander decks in the D&D set instead of Planeswalker decks, it is because those who like to play 60-card base rules precons get relegated to just 4 choices for 2021. The 4 Pioneer Challenger decks essentially almost brought back the choices that were gone when the Planeswalker decks left. There is still one problem, Pioneer Challenger decks are $50. The rant in this thread is about what is going to happen in 2022. What if the Pioneer Challenger decks fail? We will be back down to 6 choices, the 4 Challenger decks and the Arena Starter Kit.
WOTC cares about money now. They don't care about the game. Magic is dying. Yup, I said it. Magic is dying, well at least the ruleset in which the game is founded upon is dying, at least on Paper. WOTC can just half-ass their Standard sets, because they know Commander will print them money. If 60-card base rules wasn't dying, then WOTC would be confident in printing more 60-card base rules precons.
I am going to assume the Pioneer Challenger decks are going to be an annual thing, and even if it is a one year thing, I will assume that there will be at least a set of 4 60-card base rules precons released in the Fall, opposite to when the Challenger decks get release in the Spring every year. If we don't get at least 10 different 60-card base rules precons next year, or in any year in the future for that matter, expect the same rant over and over again. I will say this. Pioneer Challenger deck will fail not because people don't want them, it is because people don't want them at $50. It's the same with the Premium deck series. I thought that product was a great idea, aside from the price.
Charging $50 for a "new player product" is laughable.
LOL. Dude, this is my last reply to you, because I see you're just looping the same rant over and over, no matter that everybody else telling you why you're wrong...
Magic is definitely not dying. WotC has probably never made so much money out of Magic, and was so popular among players since it's inception.
YOU will very probably not survive Magic, and one day abandon the game for one reason or another.
But Magic will surely survive and still go on without you.
Pioneer Challenger Decks can be pre-ordered for as low as 18 USD at this time.
https://www.cardkingdom.com/mtg/challenger-decks-2021/sealed
Where are they $50?
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
I feel the point of Brawl was to make a deck that can be entirely Standard-legal, but also be turned into a Commander deck by adding another 40 cards. But the compromise didn't turn out successful enough. I liked Brawl in some regards. Just give me a Commander format with smaller decks.
Finally a good white villain quote: "So, do I ever re-evaluate my life choices? Never, because I know what I'm doing is a righteous cause."
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