fascinating, makes sense to me, it makes me wonder why they decided to change that now?
*insert MrCrab saying "money!"*
Because they sell. They put gods as flashy mythics in the greek set (which makes sense) and helped them sell packs. They are now putting them everywhere they can. They even put them on Ravnica, but at least they did it in a considerate way that really made sense from a storyline pov.
Putting too many gods on Dominaria would mean shifting the focus away from what the coalition really is (a bunch of mortals allying together to fight a desperate battle) and even in Brother's War gods have no place, Gaea never ever appeared and made her worshipper feel her powers only during the Phyrexian Invasion.
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How i feel about competitive players and casual players in EDH: The competitive are german tourists, the casual are italian tourists, both in a italian beach. The italians asking themselves "why are the germans here?" make a legitimate question, the answer is because the beach is beautiful, no matter the country you came from. The italians wanting to ban the germans are dumb, because if the germans pay for their stay and follow the rules like everyone else, they have the right to be in the beach. Hovewer, if the germans started to ask themselves "why are the italians here?"... they would be dumb as hell.
Ah okay, I guess it comes down too how canon her card is. Personally I just took them using her to help flavor a pushed merfolk for modern merfolk decks but I guess we will see.
I would assume any card from a mainline product (non-unset, non-secret lair, non-universes beyond) would be canon, but...
Yeah i hope that they won't use a single card in a supplemental set as a trojan horse to unleash a whole new pantheon on Dominaria
I mean, supplemental products have always been a "test the waters" kind of thing. If enough people like Svyelun and ask for more Dominarian gods, then it is only natural for WotC to pull another Mr Krabs.
Ah okay, I guess it comes down too how canon her card is. Personally I just took them using her to help flavor a pushed merfolk for modern merfolk decks but I guess we will see.
I would assume any card from a mainline product (non-unset, non-secret lair, non-universes beyond) would be canon, but...
I mean...
*gestures at forgotten realms*
Mmm by canon I mean does she exists since she has a card? Again real world reason she got a card was to be a pushed merfolk for modern, but does that then lock in her being real in lore or is her card more a representation of who the character is in myths and tales.
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“There are no weak Jews. I am descended from those who wrestle angels and kill giants. We were chosen by God. You were chosen by a pathetic little man who can't seem to grow a full mustache"
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
Mmm by canon I mean does she exists since she has a card? Again real world reason she got a card was to be a pushed merfolk for modern, but does that then lock in her being real in lore or is her card more a representation of who the character is in myths and tales.
I mean wotc could tomorrow put a nice retcon and say that Svyelun, Gaea, Fiers and so on are all real gods that walked on Dominaria. It wouldn't change the fact that no one of these "gods" dared to show up during the millenial history of the plane, especially during the Phyrexian invasion.
That's suddenly put gods on Dominaria would be stupid.
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How i feel about competitive players and casual players in EDH: The competitive are german tourists, the casual are italian tourists, both in a italian beach. The italians asking themselves "why are the germans here?" make a legitimate question, the answer is because the beach is beautiful, no matter the country you came from. The italians wanting to ban the germans are dumb, because if the germans pay for their stay and follow the rules like everyone else, they have the right to be in the beach. Hovewer, if the germans started to ask themselves "why are the italians here?"... they would be dumb as hell.
Mmm by canon I mean does she exists since she has a card? Again real world reason she got a card was to be a pushed merfolk for modern, but does that then lock in her being real in lore or is her card more a representation of who the character is in myths and tales.
I mean wotc could tomorrow put a nice retcon and say that Svyelun, Gaea, Fiers and so on are all real gods that walked on Dominaria. It wouldn't change the fact that no one of these "gods" dared to show up during the millenial history of the plane, especially during the Phyrexian invasion.
That's suddenly put gods on Dominaria would be stupid.
Is it really a retcon if there was no established truth on say Svyelun, one way or the other, did she exist or not and if so what was she?
How i feel about competitive players and casual players in EDH: The competitive are german tourists, the casual are italian tourists, both in a italian beach. The italians asking themselves "why are the germans here?" make a legitimate question, the answer is because the beach is beautiful, no matter the country you came from. The italians wanting to ban the germans are dumb, because if the germans pay for their stay and follow the rules like everyone else, they have the right to be in the beach. Hovewer, if the germans started to ask themselves "why are the italians here?"... they would be dumb as hell.
Mmm by canon I mean does she exists since she has a card? Again real world reason she got a card was to be a pushed merfolk for modern, but does that then lock in her being real in lore or is her card more a representation of who the character is in myths and tales.
I mean wotc could tomorrow put a nice retcon and say that Svyelun, Gaea, Fiers and so on are all real gods that walked on Dominaria. It wouldn't change the fact that no one of these "gods" dared to show up during the millenial history of the plane, especially during the Phyrexian invasion.
That's suddenly put gods on Dominaria would be stupid.
How does MtG define a "real" God anyways? I mean Oldwalkers seemed powerful enough to justify calling them "real" Gods to begin with.
If Dominaria has Gods that might give me something to look forward to. Two sets on probably the least interesting plane is a lot, but that would be at least some cards I could look forward to. Given the precedent of Kamigawa, Theros, Kaladesh, Ravnica, and Amonkhet we already know Gods don’t have to be omnipotent. I always felt like the God type was mostly that they felt comfortable doing it after so much time, as before it could have been that whole silly Christian panic over the game would get worse if they did otherwise.
Ilharg, the Raze-Boar is a God, despite being (from what I can tell, anyway) just a big boar. It seems to be a God just because the Gruul worship it as such. So if we do get Dominarian Gods, it could be because they're worshipped as gods, regardless of whatever they truly are?
Ilharg, the Raze-Boar is a God, despite being (from what I can tell, anyway) just a big boar. It seems to be a God just because the Gruul worship it as such. So if we do get Dominarian Gods, it could be because they're worshipped as gods, regardless of whatever they truly are?
Never worked like that on Dominaria, the whole character of Karona is based on things not working this way.
Ilharg isn't just a random boar, it is one of the forgotten old gods that became dormant after the guildpact.
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How i feel about competitive players and casual players in EDH: The competitive are german tourists, the casual are italian tourists, both in a italian beach. The italians asking themselves "why are the germans here?" make a legitimate question, the answer is because the beach is beautiful, no matter the country you came from. The italians wanting to ban the germans are dumb, because if the germans pay for their stay and follow the rules like everyone else, they have the right to be in the beach. Hovewer, if the germans started to ask themselves "why are the italians here?"... they would be dumb as hell.
Ilharg, the Raze-Boar is a God, despite being (from what I can tell, anyway) just a big boar. It seems to be a God just because the Gruul worship it as such. So if we do get Dominarian Gods, it could be because they're worshipped as gods, regardless of whatever they truly are?
Going by the information from Amonkhet and Theros, gods in the MTG universe are entities that wield power fueled by faith and worship. The more believers, the stronger the god and vice versa. And there are very specific requirements to become one.
Kaldheim is a bit of an outlier due to not having enough information on how the plane works, besides the fact that their gods need to drink their juice.
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Never forget whose grace and favor led to your success and always give your thanks, otherwise you might be doomed to loose it.
Ilharg, the Raze-Boar is a God, despite being (from what I can tell, anyway) just a big boar. It seems to be a God just because the Gruul worship it as such. So if we do get Dominarian Gods, it could be because they're worshipped as gods, regardless of whatever they truly are?
Going by the information from Amonkhet and Theros, gods in the MTG universe are entities that wield power fueled by faith and worship. The more believers, the stronger the god and vice versa. And there are very specific requirements to become one.
Kaldheim is a bit of an outlier due to not having enough information on how the plane works, besides the fact that their gods need to drink their juice.
The Amonkhet Gods were embodiments of the planes leylines. They don't need believers, or at least the 3 corrupted by Bolas did not. Being a god seems to operate very differently on different planes.
As far as I'm aware, the nature of Ilharg remains largely unspecified.
Edit: Oh, and I definitely had the impression that the tree juice was what made the Kaldheim gods into gods.
Never worked like that on Dominaria, the whole character of Karona is based on things not working this way.
Considering we've only had one Dominaria set released after the God type was introduced, I don't think we can say "it never worked like that" (it may very well have worked like that if the God type had existed at the time). It would explain why Svyelun of Sea and Sky has the God type despite your assertion that she wasn't a real god.
Considering we've only had one Dominaria set released after the God type was introduced, I don't think we can say "it never worked like that" (it may very well have worked like that if the God type had existed at the time).
I wonder why the god type didn't exist back then and was introduced only in Theros.
Oh yeah because there were no real gods on Dominaria.
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How i feel about competitive players and casual players in EDH: The competitive are german tourists, the casual are italian tourists, both in a italian beach. The italians asking themselves "why are the germans here?" make a legitimate question, the answer is because the beach is beautiful, no matter the country you came from. The italians wanting to ban the germans are dumb, because if the germans pay for their stay and follow the rules like everyone else, they have the right to be in the beach. Hovewer, if the germans started to ask themselves "why are the italians here?"... they would be dumb as hell.
Considering we've only had one Dominaria set released after the God type was introduced, I don't think we can say "it never worked like that" (it may very well have worked like that if the God type had existed at the time).
I wonder why the god type didn't exist back then and was introduced only in Theros.
Oh yeah because there were no real gods on Dominaria.
Or, they felt like having God as a type would be unwise. The logic you’re using also suggests Dominaria had no Humans back then. Also likewise suggests no Phyrexians ever showed up there too.
Considering we've only had one Dominaria set released after the God type was introduced, I don't think we can say "it never worked like that" (it may very well have worked like that if the God type had existed at the time).
I wonder why the god type didn't exist back then and was introduced only in Theros.
Oh yeah because there were no real gods on Dominaria.
Or, they felt like having God as a type would be unwise. The logic you’re using also suggests Dominaria had no Humans back then. Also likewise suggests no Phyrexians ever showed up there too.
Human was the default type so they felt no need to spell it out. When they updated the creature types, they added humans on Dominaria. They added no gods.
Phyrexian is basically a nationality and not real type, since you can have phyrexian dragons, phyrexian horrors and so on. Same as humans for the update.
You may be right about the controversy regarding a "god" type IF false gods weren't such a big deal in the old stories. Which they were.
Change the rules and standards 25 years later, let's go retcons!
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How i feel about competitive players and casual players in EDH: The competitive are german tourists, the casual are italian tourists, both in a italian beach. The italians asking themselves "why are the germans here?" make a legitimate question, the answer is because the beach is beautiful, no matter the country you came from. The italians wanting to ban the germans are dumb, because if the germans pay for their stay and follow the rules like everyone else, they have the right to be in the beach. Hovewer, if the germans started to ask themselves "why are the italians here?"... they would be dumb as hell.
And Demons were a big deal for a bit too. They still moved away from it for a reason. They eventually moved back but that doesn’t change that MtG explicitly tried to remove Demons as a type for a bit.
In the end the argument you’re trying to put forth doesn’t exactly equal “there are no Gods on Dominaria”. Especially if they didn’t have a card to boot, such as Gaea. The way the game represents things also changes through the years, which is the key point for my examples. Things change.
Let's go retcons!
If you can't understand the story implications of having gods on Dominaria and how it doesn't make sense it's not my fault.
Can't wait to see Gaea not showing up for the phyrexian invasion but showing up because Jace asked pretty please.
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How i feel about competitive players and casual players in EDH: The competitive are german tourists, the casual are italian tourists, both in a italian beach. The italians asking themselves "why are the germans here?" make a legitimate question, the answer is because the beach is beautiful, no matter the country you came from. The italians wanting to ban the germans are dumb, because if the germans pay for their stay and follow the rules like everyone else, they have the right to be in the beach. Hovewer, if the germans started to ask themselves "why are the italians here?"... they would be dumb as hell.
Considering we've only had one Dominaria set released after the God type was introduced, I don't think we can say "it never worked like that" (it may very well have worked like that if the God type had existed at the time). It would explain why Svyelun of Sea and Sky has the God type despite your assertion that she wasn't a real god.
I mean we can say that because the lore is (largely) unbeholden to the mechanical implications. We know planeswalkers were a thing even though they didn't appear as a card type until Lorwyn. Whether or not a card type exists has little to no bearing on whether it exists in universe.
It's fine to be okay with retcons (I guess), but don't claim they are arguments for something always having been that way.
There's another facet to it as well: We don't even know if Svyelun was a real god or not. Dominaria is the nexus of the multiverse and the multiverse is a pretty big place, so it's entirely possible a god from another world somehow made it to Dominaria, just how Myojin of Night's Reach made it to Dominaria. (I wouldn't be too surprised if the Myojin end up as Spirit Gods in Kamigawa Neon Dynasty.) But if so it would be an isolated incident.
The issue is, WotC doesn't operate that way. If people liked Svyelun and enough people ask for more Dominarian gods, then we will get more Dominarian gods and that goes against what Dominarian divinities were established to be (at large at least, exceptions abound). So it's not just an argument of what could technically and theoretically be possible, but also what would feel appropriate for the world. And proper gods just don't really fit Dominaria.
Let's go retcons!
If you can't understand the story implications of having gods on Dominaria and how it doesn't make sense it's not my fault.
Can't wait to see Gaea not showing up for the phyrexian invasion but showing up because Jace asked pretty please.
There is no story implications because being a God does not inherently mean something. You keep saying that there is some big, huge travesty, but in the end you haven’t given any reasonable answer for it.
There is no story implications because being a God does not inherently mean something. You keep saying that there is some big, huge travesty, but in the end you haven’t given any reasonable answer for it.
"hey god please, there are thousands of people/worshippers dying in this catasthrophe, the whole plane is actually risking to get destroyed or completely changed, can you come and help us?"
"STFU i'm a god, i have no implications and i'm not required to do anything. I'll just sit back and do nothing. Now excuse me while i'm showing up centuries later for the first time to partecipate in this minor event with my new friends the neowalkers"
***** storytelling is ***** storytelling. You can gobble on that or not understand it but it will still be ***** storytelling.
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How i feel about competitive players and casual players in EDH: The competitive are german tourists, the casual are italian tourists, both in a italian beach. The italians asking themselves "why are the germans here?" make a legitimate question, the answer is because the beach is beautiful, no matter the country you came from. The italians wanting to ban the germans are dumb, because if the germans pay for their stay and follow the rules like everyone else, they have the right to be in the beach. Hovewer, if the germans started to ask themselves "why are the italians here?"... they would be dumb as hell.
To be fair, despite Tourach being explicitly worshipped as a god after he died (see old Hymn to Tourach flavour text), all we've ever gotten for Tourach cards are non-God Humans (Tourach, Dread Cantor). So we have modern, present-day precedent for Wizards still refusing to make Dominarian characters merely worshipped as gods cards with the God creature type. ...Which means that Svyelun might be a real god after all. Shoot.
Granted, I have no idea how Cosima, God of the Voyage got to strip Whale from her creature types despite being born as a dolphin Cosmos Monster and still liking that form.
The problem isn't with printing dominarian cards with the subtype "god". It's having gods showing up and doing stuff in a storyline set. Because dominarian gods don't do that and have never done that.
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How i feel about competitive players and casual players in EDH: The competitive are german tourists, the casual are italian tourists, both in a italian beach. The italians asking themselves "why are the germans here?" make a legitimate question, the answer is because the beach is beautiful, no matter the country you came from. The italians wanting to ban the germans are dumb, because if the germans pay for their stay and follow the rules like everyone else, they have the right to be in the beach. Hovewer, if the germans started to ask themselves "why are the italians here?"... they would be dumb as hell.
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Yeah i hope that they won't use a single card in a supplemental set as a trojan horse to unleash a whole new pantheon on Dominaria
*insert MrCrab saying "money!"*
Because they sell. They put gods as flashy mythics in the greek set (which makes sense) and helped them sell packs. They are now putting them everywhere they can. They even put them on Ravnica, but at least they did it in a considerate way that really made sense from a storyline pov.
Putting too many gods on Dominaria would mean shifting the focus away from what the coalition really is (a bunch of mortals allying together to fight a desperate battle) and even in Brother's War gods have no place, Gaea never ever appeared and made her worshipper feel her powers only during the Phyrexian Invasion.
I would assume any card from a mainline product (non-unset, non-secret lair, non-universes beyond) would be canon, but...
I mean...
*gestures at forgotten realms*
I mean, supplemental products have always been a "test the waters" kind of thing. If enough people like Svyelun and ask for more Dominarian gods, then it is only natural for WotC to pull another Mr Krabs.
Mmm by canon I mean does she exists since she has a card? Again real world reason she got a card was to be a pushed merfolk for modern, but does that then lock in her being real in lore or is her card more a representation of who the character is in myths and tales.
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
I mean wotc could tomorrow put a nice retcon and say that Svyelun, Gaea, Fiers and so on are all real gods that walked on Dominaria. It wouldn't change the fact that no one of these "gods" dared to show up during the millenial history of the plane, especially during the Phyrexian invasion.
That's suddenly put gods on Dominaria would be stupid.
Is it really a retcon if there was no established truth on say Svyelun, one way or the other, did she exist or not and if so what was she?
If she suddenly pops up and start walking around mortals like the gods of Amonkhet or Kaldheim do? Yeah, it's retcon.
How does MtG define a "real" God anyways? I mean Oldwalkers seemed powerful enough to justify calling them "real" Gods to begin with.
Never worked like that on Dominaria, the whole character of Karona is based on things not working this way.
Ilharg isn't just a random boar, it is one of the forgotten old gods that became dormant after the guildpact.
Going by the information from Amonkhet and Theros, gods in the MTG universe are entities that wield power fueled by faith and worship. The more believers, the stronger the god and vice versa. And there are very specific requirements to become one.
Kaldheim is a bit of an outlier due to not having enough information on how the plane works, besides the fact that their gods need to drink their juice.
The Amonkhet Gods were embodiments of the planes leylines. They don't need believers, or at least the 3 corrupted by Bolas did not. Being a god seems to operate very differently on different planes.
As far as I'm aware, the nature of Ilharg remains largely unspecified.
Edit: Oh, and I definitely had the impression that the tree juice was what made the Kaldheim gods into gods.
Considering we've only had one Dominaria set released after the God type was introduced, I don't think we can say "it never worked like that" (it may very well have worked like that if the God type had existed at the time). It would explain why Svyelun of Sea and Sky has the God type despite your assertion that she wasn't a real god.
I wonder why the god type didn't exist back then and was introduced only in Theros.
Oh yeah because there were no real gods on Dominaria.
Or, they felt like having God as a type would be unwise. The logic you’re using also suggests Dominaria had no Humans back then. Also likewise suggests no Phyrexians ever showed up there too.
Svyelun of Sea and Sky begs to differ.
GWUBRDraft my Old Border Nostalgia Cube! and/or The Little Pauper Cube That Could!RBUWG
Modern:WDeath & TaxesW | RUGRUG DelverRUG
Human was the default type so they felt no need to spell it out. When they updated the creature types, they added humans on Dominaria. They added no gods.
Phyrexian is basically a nationality and not real type, since you can have phyrexian dragons, phyrexian horrors and so on. Same as humans for the update.
You may be right about the controversy regarding a "god" type IF false gods weren't such a big deal in the old stories. Which they were.
Change the rules and standards 25 years later, let's go retcons!
In the end the argument you’re trying to put forth doesn’t exactly equal “there are no Gods on Dominaria”. Especially if they didn’t have a card to boot, such as Gaea. The way the game represents things also changes through the years, which is the key point for my examples. Things change.
Let's go retcons!
If you can't understand the story implications of having gods on Dominaria and how it doesn't make sense it's not my fault.
Can't wait to see Gaea not showing up for the phyrexian invasion but showing up because Jace asked pretty please.
I mean we can say that because the lore is (largely) unbeholden to the mechanical implications. We know planeswalkers were a thing even though they didn't appear as a card type until Lorwyn. Whether or not a card type exists has little to no bearing on whether it exists in universe.
It's fine to be okay with retcons (I guess), but don't claim they are arguments for something always having been that way.
There's another facet to it as well: We don't even know if Svyelun was a real god or not. Dominaria is the nexus of the multiverse and the multiverse is a pretty big place, so it's entirely possible a god from another world somehow made it to Dominaria, just how Myojin of Night's Reach made it to Dominaria. (I wouldn't be too surprised if the Myojin end up as Spirit Gods in Kamigawa Neon Dynasty.) But if so it would be an isolated incident.
The issue is, WotC doesn't operate that way. If people liked Svyelun and enough people ask for more Dominarian gods, then we will get more Dominarian gods and that goes against what Dominarian divinities were established to be (at large at least, exceptions abound). So it's not just an argument of what could technically and theoretically be possible, but also what would feel appropriate for the world. And proper gods just don't really fit Dominaria.
There is no story implications because being a God does not inherently mean something. You keep saying that there is some big, huge travesty, but in the end you haven’t given any reasonable answer for it.
"hey god please, there are thousands of people/worshippers dying in this catasthrophe, the whole plane is actually risking to get destroyed or completely changed, can you come and help us?"
"STFU i'm a god, i have no implications and i'm not required to do anything. I'll just sit back and do nothing. Now excuse me while i'm showing up centuries later for the first time to partecipate in this minor event with my new friends the neowalkers"
***** storytelling is ***** storytelling. You can gobble on that or not understand it but it will still be ***** storytelling.
Granted, I have no idea how Cosima, God of the Voyage got to strip Whale from her creature types despite being born as a dolphin Cosmos Monster and still liking that form.