Mitch from The Commander's Quarters also posted a video on this subject which you can check out here:
Thoughts?
In other words what Mark Rosewater is saying is that non-Magic properties will no longer be Standard legal after Adventures in the Forgotten Realms (AFR) as they'll only be released in supplementary products like Conspiracy / Modern Horizons / Jumpstart / Battlebond style sets and Commander Pre-Cons which are normally based on Premiere Sets anyway including Secret Lairs which seems like a no brainer after the success of The Walking Dead.
So the short answer is that apparently they aren't doing away with Universes Beyond entirely, they just don't want them in Standard legal sets probably because Adventures in the Forgotten Realms (AFR) didn't sell as well as they hoped it would. Me personally I think it's one of the best sets in terms of capturing the flavor of old school MTG that we haven't seen since Return to Ravnica.
"Restriction breeds creativity." - Sheldon Menery on EDH / Commander in Magic: The Gathering
"Cancel Culture is the real reason why everyone's not allowed to have nice things anymore." - Anonymous
"For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his own soul?" - Mark 8:36
"Most men and women will grow up to love their servitude and will never dream of revolution." - Aldous Huxley, Brave New World
"Every life decision is always a risk / reward proposition." - Sanjay Gupta
It was always said that Universes Beyond would be other products, such as Secret Lair or Precons, i dont think they were ever gonna be premiere sets (outside of DnD ofc).
Remember, "premier" sets means 'Standard-legal'. And it was _always_ stated that UB would not be Standard-legal.
AFR is an exception because, though it's not a Magic property, it IS a Wizards of the Coast property so it got to be Standard-legal.
That makes sense because Magic: The Gathering wouldn't exist without Dungeons & Dragons even though the lore is different from one another to some degree. According to Peter Adkison the original founder of Wizards of the Coast, MTG was originally meant to be something quick and fun that people could play between D&D sessions and at gaming conventions. They didn't expect MTG to replace D&D in terms of popularity which it did because it wasn't as tedious to keep up with. They aren't too different from one another as gaming hobbies that players dedicate a lot of time and effort into with one feeling like more of a luxury due to cost being dictated by the Secondary Market.
So by what you're saying If they had decided to release a Hasbro property like My Little Pony, G.I. Joe, or Transformers as a Paper Magic or Arena set then it's already a Premiere Set by default? They've already done My Little Pony as promo cards and Transformers as a separate Paper Trading Card Game / Collectible Card Game aside from promos like Grimlock, Dinobot Leader. I don't see G.I. Joe doing well however the thought of a Commander Cobra Legendary Creature does seem very interesting to say the least. I could see Power Rangers take off since Hasbro owns the rights to it but as a Standard legal Premiere Set? Maybe If it was similar to how they released Ikoria and Godzilla where there's alternate arts for the crossover cards perhaps.
"Restriction breeds creativity." - Sheldon Menery on EDH / Commander in Magic: The Gathering
"Cancel Culture is the real reason why everyone's not allowed to have nice things anymore." - Anonymous
"For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his own soul?" - Mark 8:36
"Most men and women will grow up to love their servitude and will never dream of revolution." - Aldous Huxley, Brave New World
"Every life decision is always a risk / reward proposition." - Sanjay Gupta
Wasn't that always the case? We knew since day 1 that Warhammer was commander (non-premiere), the only maybe was for the LOTR set but there was a great change it was a "draft innovation" set (non-premiere).
Clickbait thread with a clickbait video, nothing is changing about UB
Private Mod Note
():
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How i feel about competitive players and casual players in EDH: The competitive are german tourists, the casual are italian tourists, both in a italian beach. The italians asking themselves "why are the germans here?" make a legitimate question, the answer is because the beach is beautiful, no matter the country you came from. The italians wanting to ban the germans are dumb, because if the germans pay for their stay and follow the rules like everyone else, they have the right to be in the beach. Hovewer, if the germans started to ask themselves "why are the italians here?"... they would be dumb as hell.
misleading thread title, but thats okay because its a fundamental misunderstanding of their intent with UB, which is also understandable given the ******* avalanche of information they throw at us daily.
Wasn't that always the case? We knew since day 1 that Warhammer was commander (non-premiere), the only maybe was for the LOTR set but there was a great change it was a "draft innovation" set (non-premiere).
Clickbait thread with a clickbait video, nothing is changing about UB
We new since day 1 none of it was standard legal too.
"That said, Universes Beyond cards will not be Standard legal. We strive to make Magic cards that are widely useful, but Universes Beyond will be above and, well, beyond our normal Standard releases."
That's from February, the day they first announced it.
Wasn't that always the case? We knew since day 1 that Warhammer was commander (non-premiere), the only maybe was for the LOTR set but there was a great change it was a "draft innovation" set (non-premiere).
Clickbait thread with a clickbait video, nothing is changing about UB
We new since day 1 none of it was standard legal too.
"That said, Universes Beyond cards will not be Standard legal. We strive to make Magic cards that are widely useful, but Universes Beyond will be above and, well, beyond our normal Standard releases."
That's from February, the day they first announced it.
yes but this is talking about D&D from this point forward is now gonna be UB set
Even if they did decide to discontinue this, this soon, I doubt they're going to just sit on what they have ready to go. They must be close to sending things to the printer if they haven't already. Nothing really to discuss here.
It does make me question, are we looking at a third reserved list? To reprint anything in UB, wouldn't they need to get permission every time they do it? The intellectual property owners could tell them no from here on out.
It does make me question, are we looking at a third reserved list? To reprint anything in UB, wouldn't they need to get permission every time they do it? The intellectual property owners could tell them no from here on out.
They could go the way like Godzilla cards, put the name as a "semi" name and put entirely different art on it etc.
It does make me question, are we looking at a third reserved list? To reprint anything in UB, wouldn't they need to get permission every time they do it? The intellectual property owners could tell them no from here on out.
They have already said that they can (and for secret lairs have already said they will) release equivalent cards with in-universe names that they are terming "equivalent game pieces," meaning they will be treated as having the same name.
I think AFR proves just how bad Magic can be when it is forced to do what it isn't. AFR limited is the worst draft experience I have endured since sets that were not cohesively designed (Modern masters and the like). The impact on standard is very small (I think I counted a total of 10 cards out of the 600 cards in a top 8 - and 6 of those were man lands). Lower power level is not an issue in itself - but the fact that the cards are not existing in any synergy - ranger class is just a substitution for the green stompy deck that existed, man lands are just trivial upgrades to basic lands - demonstrates that the cards were designed to "feel" like DnD first, and balanced and integrated into magic as a secondary consideration. It is probably a good thing that d20 cards are not pushed - it is easier to forgive RNG in limited than it is in constructed. The card that leaves the saltiest taste in my mouth is earth-cult elemental, I have been on the receiving and giving end of rolling the fair roll (1-9) and the god roll (20). The disappointment of playing a strategy game with the luck factor we were used to (order of cards in our library) compounded by this new luck factor feels a lot more like pokemon than magic. Imagine if the card was a 3cc 2/2 with the same dice roll - the difference between rolling an 8 and rolling a 20 would be devastating - and you would have no control of what creature you are playing.
I fear that expanded universes will have cards that are designed for the feel of the IP first and good for the health of Magic as a secondary consideration.
I think the prime reason why AFR didn’t sell as well as forecast is because it was literally a few weeks after Modern Horizons II, a set chalk full of value.
AFR doesn’t seem to warrant any interest from an investment perspective (Rudy touched in this a few weeks ago), with investors saying it’s a flop.
Hopefully this will be a lesson for WOTC moving forward with any anticipated UB platform releases.
´buster
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'buster
HR Analyst. Gamer. Activist | Fearless, and forthright | Aggro-control is a mindset. Elspeth and Jhoira rock my world.
I think the prime reason why AFR didn’t sell as well as forecast is because it was literally a few weeks after Modern Horizons II, a set chalk full of value.
AFR doesn’t seem to warrant any interest from an investment perspective (Rudy touched in this a few weeks ago), with investors saying it’s a flop.
Hopefully this will be a lesson for WOTC moving forward with any anticipated UB platform releases.
´buster
AFR isn't a Universes Beyond release because (a) its a Wizards IP, (b) its a standard legal set and (c) it doesn't have the triangular holo-stamp like Walking Dead which is a marker for UB products.
AFR isn't a Universes Beyond release because (a) its a Wizards IP, (b) its a standard legal set and (c) it doesn't have the triangular holo-stamp like Walking Dead which is a marker for UB products.
Wasn't that always the case? We knew since day 1 that Warhammer was commander (non-premiere), the only maybe was for the LOTR set but there was a great change it was a "draft innovation" set (non-premiere).
Clickbait thread with a clickbait video, nothing is changing about UB
We new since day 1 none of it was standard legal too.
"That said, Universes Beyond cards will not be Standard legal. We strive to make Magic cards that are widely useful, but Universes Beyond will be above and, well, beyond our normal Standard releases."
That's from February, the day they first announced it.
yes but this is talking about D&D from this point forward is now gonna be UB set
Given the history of MaRo's blog, it is entirely possible he did not intend to imply there would never be another D&D set as a premier set and was referring to the currently planned projects in other IPs. He is not always careful with his phrasing.
It does make me question, are we looking at a third reserved list? To reprint anything in UB, wouldn't they need to get permission every time they do it? The intellectual property owners could tell them no from here on out.
While they have expressed that they will create Magic versions of said cards yes, in a way UB creates its own reserved list as there will be few, if any, opportunities to reprint them. It's quite likely they treat the cards that destroy formats like they're on their own reserved list or treat them like Fetches or Damnation, where they see print so rarely that it barely matters.
Even with Magic variants of UB cards I do not look forward to see Macab Snerkins and just under it reads "Elmo"
While they have expressed that they will create Magic versions of said cards yes, in a way UB creates its own reserved list as there will be few, if any, opportunities to reprint them.
The Reserved List, for definition, are cards that will never be printed again in non-online, non-supersize legal format.
UB cards can be reprinted at any time, with any supplemental product, with Magic IP, which means that nobody in tournaments will be able to x4 of both Magic IP and Non-Magic IP version of them.
So no, UB is not a Reserved List at all. Facts are that UB cards are reprintable, if needed, which means, that any give time, an UB card show up to be a competitive staple that everybody need, it will be reprinted. Any opinion of how frequently they will reprinted in Magic IP form it's just your baseless speculation, nothing less, nothing more.
While they have expressed that they will create Magic versions of said cards yes, in a way UB creates its own reserved list as there will be few, if any, opportunities to reprint them.
The Reserved List, for definition, are cards that will never be printed again in non-online, non-supersize legal format.
UB cards can be reprinted at any time, with any supplemental product, with Magic IP, which means that nobody in tournaments will be able to x4 of both Magic IP and Non-Magic IP version of them.
So no, UB is not a Reserved List at all. Facts are that UB cards are reprintable, if needed, which means, that any give time, an UB card show up to be a competitive staple that everybody need, it will be reprinted. Any opinion of how frequently they will reprinted in Magic IP form it's just your baseless speculation, nothing less, nothing more.
First, Reserved List cards can be printed, nothing stops them from doing that, legal mumbo jumbo or not. Right now they could fire up the printers and have some made.
Second, yes UB can be reprinted, but so could fetch lands and Damnation, but you and I both know that WotC loves to keep certain cards from being printed or only uses them in "premium" products. Goyf is an example of this, much like my other two examples. Thing from Modern Horizons (1 & 2) will not be reprinted often, if ever, either.
My points is I don't expect them to reprint the pushed UB cards. Also, did they not recently admit that TWD cards are not going to be reprinted any time soon?
First, Reserved List cards can be printed, nothing stops them from doing that, legal mumbo jumbo or not. Right now they could fire up the printers and have some made.
Teorethically they could, but practically the don't want to, because they "made a promise" to collectors and they say they won't break it. All sources from Wizards of the Coast says that they don't want to ever reprint the cards again, and that alone makes the RL a totally different case not comparable to any other case in existence, including the UB cards.
Second, yes UB can be reprinted, but so could fetch lands and Damnation, but you and I both know that WotC loves to keep certain cards from being printed or only uses them in "premium" products.
Give them time. They also said that the entire R&D should be hitted by a Bus before a busted and broken card like Mana Drain would ever be reprinted again, and guess what? For the commander, legacy and vintage crowds we have already 3 different paper reprints of it, 2 of which very meaningful (Iconic Masters and Commander Legends). Also, what's the big deal with Damnation anyway? It sees basically zero play in competitive modern, and the other formats just have Toxic Deluge that is far superior. Also, those cards are still being reprinted, despite your dissatisfaction on how they are reprinted, so once again, the parallel with the Reserved List is wrong, because even a scarce reprint once in a while is always far superior than no reprint at all forever, you can't just compare the two things, 1 is not like 0 (and is not even really 1 anyway).
My points is I don't expect them to reprint the pushed UB cards. Also, did they not recently admit that TWD cards are not going to be reprinted any time soon?
On the opposite I dont expect them to reprint the UB cards used only in casual or very niche decks anytime soon. Unless you can prove me the TWD cards are tier 0 in legacy and all decks playing them wins games thanks to them at the same or superior rate of every other tier1 deck.
Also, did they not recently admit that TWD cards are not going to be reprinted any time soon?
I don't recall any post where they ever said when they will reprint the TWD cards as Magic IP cards. I could be wrong of course, but in that case link the source please.
Mitch from The Commander's Quarters also posted a video on this subject which you can check out here:
Thoughts?
In other words what Mark Rosewater is saying is that non-Magic properties will no longer be Standard legal after Adventures in the Forgotten Realms (AFR) as they'll only be released in supplementary products like Conspiracy / Modern Horizons / Jumpstart / Battlebond style sets and Commander Pre-Cons which are normally based on Premiere Sets anyway including Secret Lairs which seems like a no brainer after the success of The Walking Dead.
So the short answer is that apparently they aren't doing away with Universes Beyond entirely, they just don't want them in Standard legal sets probably because Adventures in the Forgotten Realms (AFR) didn't sell as well as they hoped it would. Me personally I think it's one of the best sets in terms of capturing the flavor of old school MTG that we haven't seen since Return to Ravnica.
"Restriction breeds creativity." - Sheldon Menery on EDH / Commander in Magic: The Gathering
"Cancel Culture is the real reason why everyone's not allowed to have nice things anymore." - Anonymous
"For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his own soul?" - Mark 8:36
"Most men and women will grow up to love their servitude and will never dream of revolution." - Aldous Huxley, Brave New World
"Every life decision is always a risk / reward proposition." - Sanjay Gupta
It was always said that Universes Beyond would be other products, such as Secret Lair or Precons, i dont think they were ever gonna be premiere sets (outside of DnD ofc).
~Funk Pirate
AFR is an exception because, though it's not a Magic property, it IS a Wizards of the Coast property so it got to be Standard-legal.
So by what you're saying If they had decided to release a Hasbro property like My Little Pony, G.I. Joe, or Transformers as a Paper Magic or Arena set then it's already a Premiere Set by default? They've already done My Little Pony as promo cards and Transformers as a separate Paper Trading Card Game / Collectible Card Game aside from promos like Grimlock, Dinobot Leader. I don't see G.I. Joe doing well however the thought of a Commander Cobra Legendary Creature does seem very interesting to say the least. I could see Power Rangers take off since Hasbro owns the rights to it but as a Standard legal Premiere Set? Maybe If it was similar to how they released Ikoria and Godzilla where there's alternate arts for the crossover cards perhaps.
"Restriction breeds creativity." - Sheldon Menery on EDH / Commander in Magic: The Gathering
"Cancel Culture is the real reason why everyone's not allowed to have nice things anymore." - Anonymous
"For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his own soul?" - Mark 8:36
"Most men and women will grow up to love their servitude and will never dream of revolution." - Aldous Huxley, Brave New World
"Every life decision is always a risk / reward proposition." - Sanjay Gupta
Short Anwer : No.
Long answer : No, except for standard legal sets.
/Thread.
Clickbait thread with a clickbait video, nothing is changing about UB
i wish they'd scrap the entire concept.
keep speaking up. especially with your cash.
We new since day 1 none of it was standard legal too.
https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/news/magics-voyages-universes-beyond-2021-02-25
"That said, Universes Beyond cards will not be Standard legal. We strive to make Magic cards that are widely useful, but Universes Beyond will be above and, well, beyond our normal Standard releases."
That's from February, the day they first announced it.
yes but this is talking about D&D from this point forward is now gonna be UB set
They could go the way like Godzilla cards, put the name as a "semi" name and put entirely different art on it etc.
Its not impossible, but extra work for sure.
WUBRG#BlackLotusMatterWUBRG
👮👮👮 #BlueLivesMatter 👮👮👮
They have already said that they can (and for secret lairs have already said they will) release equivalent cards with in-universe names that they are terming "equivalent game pieces," meaning they will be treated as having the same name.
I fear that expanded universes will have cards that are designed for the feel of the IP first and good for the health of Magic as a secondary consideration.
AFR doesn’t seem to warrant any interest from an investment perspective (Rudy touched in this a few weeks ago), with investors saying it’s a flop.
Hopefully this will be a lesson for WOTC moving forward with any anticipated UB platform releases.
´buster
HR Analyst. Gamer. Activist | Fearless, and forthright | Aggro-control is a mindset.
Elspeth and Jhoira rock my world.
AFR isn't a Universes Beyond release because (a) its a Wizards IP, (b) its a standard legal set and (c) it doesn't have the triangular holo-stamp like Walking Dead which is a marker for UB products.
For all intends and purposes it is.
It brings characters from another IP into Magic.
WUBRG#BlackLotusMatterWUBRG
👮👮👮 #BlueLivesMatter 👮👮👮
Given the history of MaRo's blog, it is entirely possible he did not intend to imply there would never be another D&D set as a premier set and was referring to the currently planned projects in other IPs. He is not always careful with his phrasing.
While they have expressed that they will create Magic versions of said cards yes, in a way UB creates its own reserved list as there will be few, if any, opportunities to reprint them. It's quite likely they treat the cards that destroy formats like they're on their own reserved list or treat them like Fetches or Damnation, where they see print so rarely that it barely matters.
Even with Magic variants of UB cards I do not look forward to see Macab Snerkins and just under it reads "Elmo"
The Reserved List, for definition, are cards that will never be printed again in non-online, non-supersize legal format.
UB cards can be reprinted at any time, with any supplemental product, with Magic IP, which means that nobody in tournaments will be able to x4 of both Magic IP and Non-Magic IP version of them.
If needed, we can print a Magic IP version of these cards with a Magic name and creative concept/art. We wanted to make sure that these cards were reprintable if needed.
https://markrosewater.tumblr.com/post/630817826313273344/some-answers
So no, UB is not a Reserved List at all. Facts are that UB cards are reprintable, if needed, which means, that any give time, an UB card show up to be a competitive staple that everybody need, it will be reprinted. Any opinion of how frequently they will reprinted in Magic IP form it's just your baseless speculation, nothing less, nothing more.
First, Reserved List cards can be printed, nothing stops them from doing that, legal mumbo jumbo or not. Right now they could fire up the printers and have some made.
Second, yes UB can be reprinted, but so could fetch lands and Damnation, but you and I both know that WotC loves to keep certain cards from being printed or only uses them in "premium" products. Goyf is an example of this, much like my other two examples. Thing from Modern Horizons (1 & 2) will not be reprinted often, if ever, either.
My points is I don't expect them to reprint the pushed UB cards. Also, did they not recently admit that TWD cards are not going to be reprinted any time soon?
Teorethically they could, but practically the don't want to, because they "made a promise" to collectors and they say they won't break it. All sources from Wizards of the Coast says that they don't want to ever reprint the cards again, and that alone makes the RL a totally different case not comparable to any other case in existence, including the UB cards.
Give them time. They also said that the entire R&D should be hitted by a Bus before a busted and broken card like Mana Drain would ever be reprinted again, and guess what? For the commander, legacy and vintage crowds we have already 3 different paper reprints of it, 2 of which very meaningful (Iconic Masters and Commander Legends). Also, what's the big deal with Damnation anyway? It sees basically zero play in competitive modern, and the other formats just have Toxic Deluge that is far superior. Also, those cards are still being reprinted, despite your dissatisfaction on how they are reprinted, so once again, the parallel with the Reserved List is wrong, because even a scarce reprint once in a while is always far superior than no reprint at all forever, you can't just compare the two things, 1 is not like 0 (and is not even really 1 anyway).
On the opposite I dont expect them to reprint the UB cards used only in casual or very niche decks anytime soon. Unless you can prove me the TWD cards are tier 0 in legacy and all decks playing them wins games thanks to them at the same or superior rate of every other tier1 deck.
I don't recall any post where they ever said when they will reprint the TWD cards as Magic IP cards. I could be wrong of course, but in that case link the source please.