Btw now that almost all standard sets comes with a commander deck the commander decks that are released each year (and are not linked to a standard set) kinda need something extra and i guess this will hopefully be it. If this is the case then congratulations to wotc team, they went above my expectations on this one.
Are they sticking with that? I thought that was a feature of "Year of Commander" or some such (was that this year? I thought it was but COVID makes it all blurry), but I'm on board. Even if it's a bit aggressive.
Btw now that almost all standard sets comes with a commander deck the commander decks that are released each year (and are not linked to a standard set) kinda need something extra and i guess this will hopefully be it. If this is the case then congratulations to wotc team, they went above my expectations on this one.
Are they sticking with that? I thought that was a feature of "Year of Commander" or some such (was that this year? I thought it was but COVID makes it all blurry), but I'm on board. Even if it's a bit aggressive.
I mean, it's better and more interesting than the planeswalker decks that it replaced, and it does give some decent deck options for both new and current players at a reasonable price. It also adds more cards to flesh out the world... I can't be mad about that!
You get those automatically if you play Magic on certain youtube or news channels. "I play Lightning Bolt and kill your creature that believes the earth is round. This video is brought to you by Flat Earth Candies, the only candy that proves NASA wrong."
Personally, I’d be overjoyed to have some plane-themed commander decks with plane chase cards.
A graveyard-based deck for innistrad (as we haven’t seen one since the Jeskai flashback deck)
An energy deck (with proper commander) for kaladesh
A multicolor matters deck for ravnica.
A counter based deck with artifact and infect subthemes for new phyrexia.
Give me some of that and I would be happy as a clam.
Considering the recent things that maro have said on blogatog regarding commander and standard mechanics, they should take the chance to do exactly this
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How i feel about competitive players and casual players in EDH: The competitive are german tourists, the casual are italian tourists, both in a italian beach. The italians asking themselves "why are the germans here?" make a legitimate question, the answer is because the beach is beautiful, no matter the country you came from. The italians wanting to ban the germans are dumb, because if the germans pay for their stay and follow the rules like everyone else, they have the right to be in the beach. Hovewer, if the germans started to ask themselves "why are the italians here?"... they would be dumb as hell.
Personally, I’d be overjoyed to have some plane-themed commander decks with plane chase cards.
A graveyard-based deck for innistrad (as we haven’t seen one since the Jeskai flashback deck)
An energy deck (with proper commander) for kaladesh
A multicolor matters deck for ravnica.
A counter based deck with artifact and infect subthemes for new phyrexia.
Give me some of that and I would be happy as a clam.
I always wanted a Commander deck themed around multiple planes to just revisit the places as well as make unique new cards for mechanics that might not make it through Standard/premium sets.
I would expect though that an energy deck already would cover the counter theme.
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Please god no, Planechase is a nightmare and once the novelty wears off everyone who has ever tried it grows to hate it. Deckbuilding and skill are completely negated and it becomes all about who rolls better and which random plane helps who the most. I collected every deck to acquired every plane as they were released, including promos, and I can say unequivocally that there hasn't been a worse variant format to date.
Agreed...
games fall into one of two catagories... Either the plane doesn't really mater at all and it was all a waste of time/mana or... someone gets a 7/7 annihilate 1 on turn 1 (or a legendary eldrazi or similar from their deck) and kirbstomps the table... or in a 'good' case the turn order gets reversed just before the player to go last gets their turn on the second or third time around the table... and has no fun at all...
or something goes really wrong and everyone loses there hand or something super early (before some players even get a turn).
All of the worst games of magic I have played were Planechase games...
I would rather see Archenemy or Horde come back, or something new.
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(U/B) is :symbu: or :symub: and the same is true for the other 9 hybrid symbols with their two colors in for the last 2 leters of the code. ((2/B) and co are :sym2b:)
Alternatively {UB} or {2B} in [mana] tags are (U/B) or (2/B) T is :symtap: and T will give T in [mana] tags
Please god no, Planechase is a nightmare and once the novelty wears off everyone who has ever tried it grows to hate it. Deckbuilding and skill are completely negated and it becomes all about who rolls better and which random plane helps who the most. I collected every deck to acquired every plane as they were released, including promos, and I can say unequivocally that there hasn't been a worse variant format to date.
Agreed...
games fall into one of two catagories... Either the plane doesn't really mater at all and it was all a waste of time/mana or... someone gets a 7/7 annihilate 1 on turn 1 (or a legendary eldrazi or similar from their deck) and kirbstomps the table... or in a 'good' case the turn order gets reversed just before the player to go last gets their turn on the second or third time around the table... and has no fun at all...
or something goes really wrong and everyone loses there hand or something super early (before some players even get a turn).
All of the worst games of magic I have played were Planechase games...
I would rather see Archenemy or Horde come back, or something new.
Almost exactly my experience with it. Archenemy is honestly fine, but its impossible to balance for even a modest range of power levels. At low power levels the archenemy is a god, while at moderate to high they're a joke.
I'd be down for some other new 'big card' format, hell the best of the best has always been Vanguard, bring that back why don'tcha! It was basically commander before commander, I'm sure it would be a huge success if they started slowly reprinting them with some new additions.
games fall into one of two catagories... Either the plane doesn't really mater at all and it was all a waste of time/mana or... someone gets a 7/7 annihilate 1 on turn 1 (or a legendary eldrazi or similar from their deck) and kirbstomps the table... or in a 'good' case the turn order gets reversed just before the player to go last gets their turn on the second or third time around the table... and has no fun at all...
Hyperbole detected. So you played Planechase enough where you only kept seeing only that one specific plane (Hedron Fields of Agadeem), among 78 of them (a 1.28% chance) , and then someone gets so lucky in two rolls for a 1/6 chance (16.6%) that they roll the chaos ability of that plane. Then even though that very plane has an ability to make sure the token can't attack and therefore not take over the game, someone is unwise enough to roll the planar die and/or the one who got the chaos ability also got to switch planes (another 16.6%.)
The only way you're seeing that result that often would be to play with either one or two planes, with that plane in the deck. It's almost like even in hyperbole land what you described cannot happen that often. As for "boring" that's just your opinion.
I'd be down for some other new 'big card' format, hell the best of the best has always been Vanguard, bring that back why don'tcha! It was basically commander before commander, I'm sure it would be a huge success if they started slowly reprinting them with some new additions.
If we bring Vanguard back, everybody will just play Titania or Tawnos, because they are the most powerful, immediate and most versatile vanguards ever for every type of deck. All the other ones are unplayable garbage compared to them. I know because I tested Vanguards with friends for years and literally everybody always choose Titania or Tawnos in the end.
Eventually I solved by making more balanced and fun custom vanguards myself, because the existing ones are either unplayable or so broken everybody just choose the same all the time for all the decks.
If WotC ever bring back Vanguard it needs an official banlist and new cards that are actually balanced but worth to play
I'd be down for some other new 'big card' format, hell the best of the best has always been Vanguard, bring that back why don'tcha! It was basically commander before commander, I'm sure it would be a huge success if they started slowly reprinting them with some new additions.
If we bring Vanguard back, everybody will just play Titania or Tawnos, because they are the most powerful, immediate and most versatile vanguards ever for every type of deck. All the other ones are unplayable garbage compared to them. I know because I tested Vanguards with friends for years and literally everybody always choose Titania or Tawnos in the end.
Eventually I solved by making more balanced and fun custom vanguards myself, because the existing ones are either unplayable or so broken everybody just choose the same all the time for all the decks.
If WotC ever bring back Vanguard it needs an official banlist and new cards that are actually balanced but worth to play
I can dig it. You're right that the original batch were pretty unbalanced and probably not playtested lol.
]Either the plane doesn't really mater at all and it was all a waste of time/mana or... someone gets a 7/7 annihilate 1 on turn 1 (or a legendary eldrazi or similar from their deck) and kirbstomps the table...
Hyperbole detected. So you played Planechase enough where you only kept seeing only that one specific plane (Hedron Fields of Agadeem), among 78 of them (a 1.28% chance)
Strawman detected? The complaint is either that the Planes don't matter, or nothing but the planes matter... and it isn't one specific plane that is the problem.
I referred to these planes originally:
--Grove of the Dreampods flips out an eldrazi titan or something similar (Blightsteel?) ((As I mentioned originally... happened on the first turn of play... OG Emrakul against a bunch of players with 1 land each...))
--Hedron Fields of Agadeem you and I mentioned this one...
--Quicksilver Sea see Grove of the Dreampods above
--The Aether Flues see Grove of the Dreampods above
--The Maelstrom see Grove of the Dreampods above
I have also had bad games due to one or more of the below:
--Eloren Wilds ramp someone from 4 to 8 mana, drop a bomb and then walk off... or lock someone out of playing anything, who gets unlucky and doesn't manage to walk off (Yes I have seen player A walk with their last roll and land on Eloren Wilds, the next player drop a bomb and then chaos a third player who then spends all their mana rolling, chaos locks the first two players and doesn't manage to get off... not a great game.
--Feeding Grounds Chaos' twice on a card like Scornful Egotist (not actually that one, but something similar that costs more than you pay for) and then go to town...
--Horizon Boughs chaos triggers twice on one player and the next player 'walks off it.
--Isle of Vesuva makes a permanent copy of something that came out on Sneak Attack or similar
--Jund gives a random creature 10+ +1/+1 counters
--Krosa turns a token deck into a huge threat, or multiple chaos rolls get someone way ahead super early (turn 1 10 mana?)
--Naya WTF? seriously?
--Orzhova maybe combined with one of the mill planes...
--Sanctum of Serra No Comment
--Shiv with an early chaos or two
so 5 not 1... and I readily agree... MOST games of Planechase the planes don't matter.
Different players play magic for different reasons... some because they want to do something cool (timmy), some because they want to make something happen (Johnny), some because they want to win (spike)... Planechase is HORRIBLE for Johnny and Spike, and a significant section of Timmy...
You may be in the small subsection of Timmy who wants to see something cool and doesn't care much how or why it happens... great, planechase is for you.
Most people dislike it once the novelty wears off because it steals the game or spoils their win (spike), or because it makes everything else not matter (many Timmies and most Johnnies).
Planechase is like playing Fluxx, it will be crazy and some of it is fun... but in my experience (and the majority of my play group, though my group contains people like you who thrive on the chaos and don't much care that it derails the games) I would rather play a chaotic game like Fluxx for that and play Magic for the deeper gameplay it provides.
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(U/B) is :symbu: or :symub: and the same is true for the other 9 hybrid symbols with their two colors in for the last 2 leters of the code. ((2/B) and co are :sym2b:)
Alternatively {UB} or {2B} in [mana] tags are (U/B) or (2/B) T is :symtap: and T will give T in [mana] tags
Most people dislike it once the novelty wears off because it steals the game or spoils their win (spike), or because it makes everything else not matter (many Timmies and most Johnnies).
Is this a known fact? I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm just curious if there's been any statement from WotC that says that. This is only my experience, but the majority of people who played at my LGS were big fans of planechase with those who disliked it strongly disliking it. So I'm wondering whether or not there's been any official statement to that effect.
Strawman detected? The complaint is either that the Planes don't matter, or nothing but the planes matter... and it isn't one specific plane that is the problem.
No, your complaint was one of only two results, a poor plane where you think they do nothing (not sure why you think they all have to do something bombastic) or the eldrazi turn 1. I pointed out how unlikely your worst case scenario comes to pass. In no way is it a strawman to point out the flaw in your statement. You even stated most of the time those things barely happen, therefore destroying your own point about it being just nothing or too much.
Different players play magic for different reasons... some because they want to do something cool (timmy), some because they want to make something happen (Johnny), some because they want to win (spike)... Planechase is HORRIBLE for Johnny and Spike, and a significant section of Timmy...
Wait....why would Johnny hate this? Per your definition they are making something happen. Same with Spike, if they're winning why would they hate it?
Most people dislike it once the novelty wears off because it steals the game or spoils their win (spike), or because it makes everything else not matter (many Timmies and most Johnnies).
I'm sure you have a source for how many people dislike a thing to back up your "facts."
I referred to these planes originally:
--Grove of the Dreampods flips out an eldrazi titan or something similar (Blightsteel?) ((As I mentioned originally... happened on the first turn of play... OG Emrakul against a bunch of players with 1 land each...))
--Hedron Fields of Agadeem you and I mentioned this one...
--Quicksilver Sea see Grove of the Dreampods above
--The Aether Flues see Grove of the Dreampods above
--The Maelstrom see Grove of the Dreampods above
Grove of Dreampods can be pretty broken sure, but if nobody play enough removals in your playgroup, the fault is bad deckbuild, not the planes. Having Grove as first plane is extremely unlickely (of course, granting we're talking about the "Shared Planechase deck" mode with all planes and phenomena currently available) and revealing a blight colossus is even more unlikely (unless you are a combo deck that specifically play only that creature card in your deck) and even then, cards like Swords to Plowshares, Path to Exile, Unsommon, On Thin Ice, Chained to the Rocks or such are available since turn 1 of game. But really, seeing a Blight Colossus turn 1 because of a turn 1 Dreampod and casually you are the first player starting too, its just so unlikely it's not even worth to even mention solutions really.
The Maelstrom is already a different case, because it does easily whiffs lots of time (revealing instant or sorceries) or simply not relevent enough stuff (like lands, mana rocks and such)
The Aether Flues is like Dreampods but you need creatures in play so it's unlikely it will ever do something even turn 1 of game. (granted we're talking EDH; which is the only format where planechase make sense to me)
Also, if you mention stuff like Quicksilver Sea and Eldrazi Field, it really proves that you have no idea of what are you actually talking about and that you definitely did not play enough time the format. First of all, to cast free with Quicksilver you actually need to do the Chaos symbol with the planar dice and you think is that easy to pull of that symbol with only 1/6 chance to do it, only 1-2 attempts at turn (if we're talking early game as you say) and with another chance to just change the plane altogether? Really, dude? And don't get me started with the eldrazi plane. Not only you must be lucky enough to have turn 1, not only you must be lucky enough that the other players of the pods meanwhile doesn't leave the plane before you got your chance to even make an eldrazi, not only if you actually manage to make the 1/6 chance to do the eldrazi it won't even able to nothing while we're in the plane, not only your eldrazi must be alive the times somebody rolls the "travel the planes" symbol...do I have to continue just to show how preposterous and specious are your arguments, and everything you fear of, its simply not likely to happen at all practically?
I mean, did you had unlucky games with Planes? Cool, it happens, I have unlucky and *****ty games with regular magic of all formats all the time. But you can't really blame the planes themselves only because of your bad luck or anything, because then you find people like me, that play this format for 10 years consecutively with any type of playgroups, and, you know, simply raise an eyebrow every time I see this type of complaining (just to be clear : It's perfectly legit to say "I dont like planechase / it's not for me / I don't like random and unpredictable splashy effects in a game". What is NOT legit is saying instead "this format is objectively unplayable and broken for everybody just because I had a bad experience with it.", which is pretty much what all people disliking the format are saying in this thread)
and play Magic for the deeper gameplay it provides.
Opponent gets screwed and has 2 lands for the whole game and lose lol
We got it, you don't like Planechase because of its random nature. That doesn't mean all the other mtg players agree with you.
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How i feel about competitive players and casual players in EDH: The competitive are german tourists, the casual are italian tourists, both in a italian beach. The italians asking themselves "why are the germans here?" make a legitimate question, the answer is because the beach is beautiful, no matter the country you came from. The italians wanting to ban the germans are dumb, because if the germans pay for their stay and follow the rules like everyone else, they have the right to be in the beach. Hovewer, if the germans started to ask themselves "why are the italians here?"... they would be dumb as hell.
Strawman detected? The complaint is either that the Planes don't matter, or nothing but the planes matter... and it isn't one specific plane that is the problem.
No, your complaint was one of only two results, a poor plane where you think they do nothing (not sure why you think they all have to do something bombastic) or the eldrazi turn 1. I pointed out how unlikely your worst case scenario comes to pass. In no way is it a strawman to point out the flaw in your statement. You even stated most of the time those things barely happen, therefore destroying your own point about it being just nothing or too much.
Go look at my post, and at your quote... 'Or a legendary eldrazi or similar from their deck'.
I said one of two things happens... the planes don't matter, or nothing but the planes matter... ignoring half of category two and then talking about how many games fall into the part of category two you didn't ignore isn't relevant. you were misrepresenting my argument and then attacking that misrepresentation...
Planechase isn't a good product because either the planes don't matter, or they are the only thing that does. Either there is no gain because they didn't matter or there is a loss because they invalidated the rest of the game.
If the times where nothing but the Planes matters are rare... and they are... it doesn't invalidate anything... Planechase is a net negative due to the planes either not mattering or nothing but the planes mattering. It needs a middle ground where the planes matter but don't invalidate the rest of the game. Admittedly I have experienced such games of Planechase, but in the average night of 3 or so games of planechase zero games were improved by Planechase and 1 game was ruined for at least 1 person... we stopped playing with it, and I have heard lots of stories about similar in other groups.
Different players play magic for different reasons... some because they want to do something cool (timmy), some because they want to make something happen (Johnny), some because they want to win (spike)... Planechase is HORRIBLE for Johnny and Spike, and a significant section of Timmy...
Wait....why would Johnny hate this? Per your definition they are making something happen. Same with Spike, if they're winning why would they hate it?
Johnnies want to build a deck that will make a specific thing they find interesting or entertaining happen... often this is a combo, but it isn't always. Planechase rarely HELPS them do what they want, usually it prevents it.
Spikes want to feel that they won, that they were victorious. They want to feel smarter and better at the game then the people they are playing against. Different spikes have different thresholds, but they need to view their opponents as 'worthy' and they need to view the win as 'earned'. They wouldn't derive as much enjoyment from playing against a group of preschoolers who struggled to figure out which cards they could play, and they don't derive as much enjoyment when an opponent plays a card that says 'Flip a coin, heads you win, tails you lose' and then flips tails... Similarly when Planechase gives them a giant monster on turn 1 and they ride it to victory they don't enjoy it because the victory is hollow.
Most people dislike it once the novelty wears off because it steals the game or spoils their win (spike), or because it makes everything else not matter (many Timmies and most Johnnies).
I'm sure you have a source for how many people dislike a thing to back up your "facts."
I don't conduct market research, and WotC doesn't publish theirs... but Mark Rosewater has made comments in the past about planechase's sales and such... a quick search isn't showing anything glaring at the moment but if it was popular and lasting then the answer here: https://markrosewater.tumblr.com/post/183033726313/ifwhen-more-planechase
wouldn't be 'minor'... Planechase sells a bit, but the second set didn't sell as well as they hoped (and it had new cards) and the public isn't asking for more that loudly...
When it first came out is was new and exciting and people flocked to it... it quickly died down and became harder to get people to play it or find people playing it, that is my experience at multiple stores and from talking to many people, and from reading between the lines of what WotC does and says about it.
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(U/B) is :symbu: or :symub: and the same is true for the other 9 hybrid symbols with their two colors in for the last 2 leters of the code. ((2/B) and co are :sym2b:)
Alternatively {UB} or {2B} in [mana] tags are (U/B) or (2/B) T is :symtap: and T will give T in [mana] tags
Are they sticking with that? I thought that was a feature of "Year of Commander" or some such (was that this year? I thought it was but COVID makes it all blurry), but I'm on board. Even if it's a bit aggressive.
I mean, it's better and more interesting than the planeswalker decks that it replaced, and it does give some decent deck options for both new and current players at a reasonable price. It also adds more cards to flesh out the world... I can't be mad about that!
Planechase Archenemy Vanguard Commander decks
With Conspiracies.
You get those automatically if you play Magic on certain youtube or news channels. "I play Lightning Bolt and kill your creature that believes the earth is round. This video is brought to you by Flat Earth Candies, the only candy that proves NASA wrong."
And Contraptions.
A graveyard-based deck for innistrad (as we haven’t seen one since the Jeskai flashback deck)
An energy deck (with proper commander) for kaladesh
A multicolor matters deck for ravnica.
A counter based deck with artifact and infect subthemes for new phyrexia.
Give me some of that and I would be happy as a clam.
Considering the recent things that maro have said on blogatog regarding commander and standard mechanics, they should take the chance to do exactly this
I agree with this 100%.
I'd be so hype for an energy/Kaladesh commander.
I always wanted a Commander deck themed around multiple planes to just revisit the places as well as make unique new cards for mechanics that might not make it through Standard/premium sets.
I would expect though that an energy deck already would cover the counter theme.
Although ninjas are experts of camouflage and concealment, they are actually horrible liars. This means that no matter where you are, you can shout out, “Are there any ninjas here?” and if there’s a ninja within earshot, he’ll be compelled to respond.
games fall into one of two catagories... Either the plane doesn't really mater at all and it was all a waste of time/mana or... someone gets a 7/7 annihilate 1 on turn 1 (or a legendary eldrazi or similar from their deck) and kirbstomps the table... or in a 'good' case the turn order gets reversed just before the player to go last gets their turn on the second or third time around the table... and has no fun at all...
or something goes really wrong and everyone loses there hand or something super early (before some players even get a turn).
All of the worst games of magic I have played were Planechase games...
I would rather see Archenemy or Horde come back, or something new.
Alternatively {UB} or {2B} in [mana] tags are (U/B) or (2/B)
T is :symtap: and T will give T in [mana] tags
Expanding it with other formats like EDH is a no brainer.
Almost exactly my experience with it. Archenemy is honestly fine, but its impossible to balance for even a modest range of power levels. At low power levels the archenemy is a god, while at moderate to high they're a joke.
I'd be down for some other new 'big card' format, hell the best of the best has always been Vanguard, bring that back why don'tcha! It was basically commander before commander, I'm sure it would be a huge success if they started slowly reprinting them with some new additions.
Hyperbole detected. So you played Planechase enough where you only kept seeing only that one specific plane (Hedron Fields of Agadeem), among 78 of them (a 1.28% chance) , and then someone gets so lucky in two rolls for a 1/6 chance (16.6%) that they roll the chaos ability of that plane. Then even though that very plane has an ability to make sure the token can't attack and therefore not take over the game, someone is unwise enough to roll the planar die and/or the one who got the chaos ability also got to switch planes (another 16.6%.)
The only way you're seeing that result that often would be to play with either one or two planes, with that plane in the deck. It's almost like even in hyperbole land what you described cannot happen that often. As for "boring" that's just your opinion.
If we bring Vanguard back, everybody will just play Titania or Tawnos, because they are the most powerful, immediate and most versatile vanguards ever for every type of deck. All the other ones are unplayable garbage compared to them. I know because I tested Vanguards with friends for years and literally everybody always choose Titania or Tawnos in the end.
Eventually I solved by making more balanced and fun custom vanguards myself, because the existing ones are either unplayable or so broken everybody just choose the same all the time for all the decks.
If WotC ever bring back Vanguard it needs an official banlist and new cards that are actually balanced but worth to play
I can dig it. You're right that the original batch were pretty unbalanced and probably not playtested lol.
Strawman detected? The complaint is either that the Planes don't matter, or nothing but the planes matter... and it isn't one specific plane that is the problem.
I referred to these planes originally:
--Grove of the Dreampods flips out an eldrazi titan or something similar (Blightsteel?) ((As I mentioned originally... happened on the first turn of play... OG Emrakul against a bunch of players with 1 land each...))
--Hedron Fields of Agadeem you and I mentioned this one...
--Quicksilver Sea see Grove of the Dreampods above
--The Aether Flues see Grove of the Dreampods above
--The Maelstrom see Grove of the Dreampods above
I have also had bad games due to one or more of the below:
--Eloren Wilds ramp someone from 4 to 8 mana, drop a bomb and then walk off... or lock someone out of playing anything, who gets unlucky and doesn't manage to walk off (Yes I have seen player A walk with their last roll and land on Eloren Wilds, the next player drop a bomb and then chaos a third player who then spends all their mana rolling, chaos locks the first two players and doesn't manage to get off... not a great game.
--Feeding Grounds Chaos' twice on a card like Scornful Egotist (not actually that one, but something similar that costs more than you pay for) and then go to town...
--Horizon Boughs chaos triggers twice on one player and the next player 'walks off it.
--Isle of Vesuva makes a permanent copy of something that came out on Sneak Attack or similar
--Jund gives a random creature 10+ +1/+1 counters
--Krosa turns a token deck into a huge threat, or multiple chaos rolls get someone way ahead super early (turn 1 10 mana?)
--Naya WTF? seriously?
--Orzhova maybe combined with one of the mill planes...
--Sanctum of Serra No Comment
--Shiv with an early chaos or two
so 5 not 1... and I readily agree... MOST games of Planechase the planes don't matter.
Different players play magic for different reasons... some because they want to do something cool (timmy), some because they want to make something happen (Johnny), some because they want to win (spike)... Planechase is HORRIBLE for Johnny and Spike, and a significant section of Timmy...
You may be in the small subsection of Timmy who wants to see something cool and doesn't care much how or why it happens... great, planechase is for you.
Most people dislike it once the novelty wears off because it steals the game or spoils their win (spike), or because it makes everything else not matter (many Timmies and most Johnnies).
Planechase is like playing Fluxx, it will be crazy and some of it is fun... but in my experience (and the majority of my play group, though my group contains people like you who thrive on the chaos and don't much care that it derails the games) I would rather play a chaotic game like Fluxx for that and play Magic for the deeper gameplay it provides.
Alternatively {UB} or {2B} in [mana] tags are (U/B) or (2/B)
T is :symtap: and T will give T in [mana] tags
Is this a known fact? I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm just curious if there's been any statement from WotC that says that. This is only my experience, but the majority of people who played at my LGS were big fans of planechase with those who disliked it strongly disliking it. So I'm wondering whether or not there's been any official statement to that effect.
No, your complaint was one of only two results, a poor plane where you think they do nothing (not sure why you think they all have to do something bombastic) or the eldrazi turn 1. I pointed out how unlikely your worst case scenario comes to pass. In no way is it a strawman to point out the flaw in your statement. You even stated most of the time those things barely happen, therefore destroying your own point about it being just nothing or too much.
Wait....why would Johnny hate this? Per your definition they are making something happen. Same with Spike, if they're winning why would they hate it?
I'm sure you have a source for how many people dislike a thing to back up your "facts."
Grove of Dreampods can be pretty broken sure, but if nobody play enough removals in your playgroup, the fault is bad deckbuild, not the planes. Having Grove as first plane is extremely unlickely (of course, granting we're talking about the "Shared Planechase deck" mode with all planes and phenomena currently available) and revealing a blight colossus is even more unlikely (unless you are a combo deck that specifically play only that creature card in your deck) and even then, cards like Swords to Plowshares, Path to Exile, Unsommon, On Thin Ice, Chained to the Rocks or such are available since turn 1 of game. But really, seeing a Blight Colossus turn 1 because of a turn 1 Dreampod and casually you are the first player starting too, its just so unlikely it's not even worth to even mention solutions really.
The Maelstrom is already a different case, because it does easily whiffs lots of time (revealing instant or sorceries) or simply not relevent enough stuff (like lands, mana rocks and such)
The Aether Flues is like Dreampods but you need creatures in play so it's unlikely it will ever do something even turn 1 of game. (granted we're talking EDH; which is the only format where planechase make sense to me)
Also, if you mention stuff like Quicksilver Sea and Eldrazi Field, it really proves that you have no idea of what are you actually talking about and that you definitely did not play enough time the format. First of all, to cast free with Quicksilver you actually need to do the Chaos symbol with the planar dice and you think is that easy to pull of that symbol with only 1/6 chance to do it, only 1-2 attempts at turn (if we're talking early game as you say) and with another chance to just change the plane altogether? Really, dude? And don't get me started with the eldrazi plane. Not only you must be lucky enough to have turn 1, not only you must be lucky enough that the other players of the pods meanwhile doesn't leave the plane before you got your chance to even make an eldrazi, not only if you actually manage to make the 1/6 chance to do the eldrazi it won't even able to nothing while we're in the plane, not only your eldrazi must be alive the times somebody rolls the "travel the planes" symbol...do I have to continue just to show how preposterous and specious are your arguments, and everything you fear of, its simply not likely to happen at all practically?
I mean, did you had unlucky games with Planes? Cool, it happens, I have unlucky and *****ty games with regular magic of all formats all the time. But you can't really blame the planes themselves only because of your bad luck or anything, because then you find people like me, that play this format for 10 years consecutively with any type of playgroups, and, you know, simply raise an eyebrow every time I see this type of complaining (just to be clear : It's perfectly legit to say "I dont like planechase / it's not for me / I don't like random and unpredictable splashy effects in a game". What is NOT legit is saying instead "this format is objectively unplayable and broken for everybody just because I had a bad experience with it.", which is pretty much what all people disliking the format are saying in this thread)
Opponent gets screwed and has 2 lands for the whole game and lose lol
We got it, you don't like Planechase because of its random nature. That doesn't mean all the other mtg players agree with you.
Go look at my post, and at your quote... 'Or a legendary eldrazi or similar from their deck'.
I said one of two things happens... the planes don't matter, or nothing but the planes matter... ignoring half of category two and then talking about how many games fall into the part of category two you didn't ignore isn't relevant. you were misrepresenting my argument and then attacking that misrepresentation...
Planechase isn't a good product because either the planes don't matter, or they are the only thing that does. Either there is no gain because they didn't matter or there is a loss because they invalidated the rest of the game.
If the times where nothing but the Planes matters are rare... and they are... it doesn't invalidate anything... Planechase is a net negative due to the planes either not mattering or nothing but the planes mattering. It needs a middle ground where the planes matter but don't invalidate the rest of the game. Admittedly I have experienced such games of Planechase, but in the average night of 3 or so games of planechase zero games were improved by Planechase and 1 game was ruined for at least 1 person... we stopped playing with it, and I have heard lots of stories about similar in other groups.
Johnnies want to build a deck that will make a specific thing they find interesting or entertaining happen... often this is a combo, but it isn't always. Planechase rarely HELPS them do what they want, usually it prevents it.
Spikes want to feel that they won, that they were victorious. They want to feel smarter and better at the game then the people they are playing against. Different spikes have different thresholds, but they need to view their opponents as 'worthy' and they need to view the win as 'earned'. They wouldn't derive as much enjoyment from playing against a group of preschoolers who struggled to figure out which cards they could play, and they don't derive as much enjoyment when an opponent plays a card that says 'Flip a coin, heads you win, tails you lose' and then flips tails... Similarly when Planechase gives them a giant monster on turn 1 and they ride it to victory they don't enjoy it because the victory is hollow.
I don't conduct market research, and WotC doesn't publish theirs... but Mark Rosewater has made comments in the past about planechase's sales and such... a quick search isn't showing anything glaring at the moment but if it was popular and lasting then the answer here:
https://markrosewater.tumblr.com/post/183033726313/ifwhen-more-planechase
wouldn't be 'minor'... Planechase sells a bit, but the second set didn't sell as well as they hoped (and it had new cards) and the public isn't asking for more that loudly...
When it first came out is was new and exciting and people flocked to it... it quickly died down and became harder to get people to play it or find people playing it, that is my experience at multiple stores and from talking to many people, and from reading between the lines of what WotC does and says about it.
Alternatively {UB} or {2B} in [mana] tags are (U/B) or (2/B)
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