Other effects that could had easily done in paper....
+1 Sarkhan : could had been an emblem, it's even from a planeswalker source!
O: "Add a Shivan Dragon card from outside the game in hand" or something like that
Scorn COULD be done in paper, but tracking turn number is easy to lose after the first couple so I understand not wanting it to be a thing.
Other effects that could had easily done in paper....
+1 Sarkhan : could had been an emblem, it's even from a planeswalker source!
O: "Add a Shivan Dragon card from outside the game in hand" or something like that
Except the emblem would effect every dragon you draw for the rest of the game, which is far more powerful than just reducing the costs of the ones in your hand right then and, since your opponent doesn't know what in your hand to get the bonus when you activate, they don't know if theres 0 or 5 dragons getting discounted that the have to play around or not.
Scorn COULD be done in paper, but tracking turn number is easy to lose after the first couple so I understand not wanting it to be a thing.
thats what dice, paper or game apps are for.
Yes, it can be done but (a) doing so gives away information to your opponent that your cards care about number of turns and (b) remembering to increment the counter when there's no onboard effect is easily missed. Given the number of times people miss triggers already, having them keep accurate count of the number of turns is an even taller order. Its not like a Storm count where everything happens all at once.
Other effects that could had easily done in paper....
+1 Sarkhan : could had been an emblem, it's even from a planeswalker source!
O: "Add a Shivan Dragon card from outside the game in hand" or something like that
Scorn COULD be done in paper, but tracking turn number is easy to lose after the first couple so I understand not wanting it to be a thing.
thats what dice, paper or game apps are for.
I... I really don't follow your logic.
Yes, any game effect could theoretically be done with paper, dice, apps, and the like. We could play a game of Momir Vig using the random card function on gatherer if we're willing to write on basic lands with sharpies.
With that said, there are a large number of effects that Wizards does not do in paper magic for various reasons. These effects require a lot of secret record-keeping and/or judge calls to properly use in magic and cards that do so to this degree have yet to appear in paper magic. While there have been a small number of cards that involve making secret choices, there is a world of difference (quantitatively, if not qualitatively) between making a cycle of commander-legal cards where you make 1 choice, reveal it, and don't have to worry about it afterwards versus shoving a big cluster of those cards into historic in a semi-limited format where those cards are all likely to see play for anyone joining the event.
You have mentioned getting into weird situations with commander and being able to lead a 5-color urza deck without problem but do you really feel that those games are representative of magic as a whole? Do you think that the people playing historic want to manually keep track of how many turns you have been playing a game or use stickers/sleeve inserts to track the travel of a persistently altered card through hidden zones? Do you think that players want to wave over a judge every time they want to seek something?
While it is not impossible to do these effects in paper magic, there are a lot of designs that Wizards wouldn't print to appeal to the common denominator. These cards are examples of where people being dumb keeps them from being physically printed and having a digital system that tracks things for you makes it easier on the Arena client.
Actually, let's simplify your argument: Point 1: If they are going to make cards on arena only, they had better be impossible to replicate on paper. Point 2: Nothing is impossible to replicate on paper. Point 3: Ergo, no cards should be on arena only.
Other effects that could had easily done in paper....
+1 Sarkhan : could had been an emblem, it's even from a planeswalker source!
O: "Add a Shivan Dragon card from outside the game in hand" or something like that
Scorn COULD be done in paper, but tracking turn number is easy to lose after the first couple so I understand not wanting it to be a thing.
thats what dice, paper or game apps are for.
Sarkhan's first ability stacks in perpetuity. You'll have to fragment your hand to keep track, which will give away all the Dragons in your hand.
"Yeah, I did split my hand into four piles with Sarkhan at 7. No, of course it doesn't mean anything."
Actually, let's simplify your argument:
Point 1: If they are going to make cards on arena only, they had better be impossible to replicate on paper.
Point 2: Nothing is impossible to replicate on paper.
Point 3: Ergo, no cards should be on arena only.
This is a fallacy. I never said nothing is impossibile to replicate on paper. I just say that most of the designs I see here could had be made in paper, as a novelty supplemental product with his own complexity (just like Commander Forgotten Realms force you to use for the first time in 30 years of game, different kind of dices adding also a new level of complexity of the game) and that is a waste that those designs are available only for online players, because at my eyes such are so cool that should be available for paper players too.
We could play a game of Momir Vig using the random card function on gatherer if we're willing to write on basic lands with sharpies.
That's a bit different, because Momir take cards from all Magic history and many of them could have an extremely complex or obscure text in a way that if you play many cards with him there are real "memory issues" that makes tracking all single proxy cards a real pain.
This is a very different scenario from, let's say a Davriel, where all his effects are very limited and be tracked easily in a single piece of paper and a dice without adding complexity and memory issues on board in terms of "tokens" that represents actual cards of any kind. You don't even need a computer or internet connection, it's that easy and simple. That's why something like Momir can't be compared to those cards, Momir isn't practical for real, most of these designs au contraire, are easily replicable in paper for a smooth gameplay.
How i feel about competitive players and casual players in EDH: The competitive are german tourists, the casual are italian tourists, both in a italian beach. The italians asking themselves "why are the germans here?" make a legitimate question, the answer is because the beach is beautiful, no matter the country you came from. The italians wanting to ban the germans are dumb, because if the germans pay for their stay and follow the rules like everyone else, they have the right to be in the beach. Hovewer, if the germans started to ask themselves "why are the italians here?"... they would be dumb as hell.
Sarkhan seems good - win con and removal in one card. The other two, not so much. The Scion is too much investment for the effect and Scorn's not nearly strong enough removal to be worth 3.
Sarkhan wanderer to shiv:
+1 should be worded diferently, and yeah, the only effect that can only be done in digital from those… the ability works on every dragon in your hand at the time you activate the ability, soo, there will be dragons that will cost 2 less, other that cost 3 less, others that will cost 1 less. In paper you would need to put a reminder in each card in your hand for each time you have activated it while it was in your hand…
+0 “conjure” ???!? Wouldn’t it be easier to say put a card named shivan dragon in your hand from outside the game?
sarkhan’scorn imo should be worded like “control win condition” from the playtest cards.
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Sarkhan's +1 means you can stach the discount on Dragons in hand and still get that discount if Sarkhan dies before you cast them.
Conjuring the Dragon Card in hand also makes it relevant for cards like Foul-Tongue Invocation
Scorn COULD be done in paper, but tracking turn number is easy to lose after the first couple so I understand not wanting it to be a thing.
+1 Sarkhan : could had been an emblem, it's even from a planeswalker source!
O: "Add a Shivan Dragon card from outside the game in hand" or something like that
thats what dice, paper or game apps are for.
Except the emblem would effect every dragon you draw for the rest of the game, which is far more powerful than just reducing the costs of the ones in your hand right then and, since your opponent doesn't know what in your hand to get the bonus when you activate, they don't know if theres 0 or 5 dragons getting discounted that the have to play around or not.
Yes, it can be done but (a) doing so gives away information to your opponent that your cards care about number of turns and (b) remembering to increment the counter when there's no onboard effect is easily missed. Given the number of times people miss triggers already, having them keep accurate count of the number of turns is an even taller order. Its not like a Storm count where everything happens all at once.
I... I really don't follow your logic.
Yes, any game effect could theoretically be done with paper, dice, apps, and the like. We could play a game of Momir Vig using the random card function on gatherer if we're willing to write on basic lands with sharpies.
With that said, there are a large number of effects that Wizards does not do in paper magic for various reasons. These effects require a lot of secret record-keeping and/or judge calls to properly use in magic and cards that do so to this degree have yet to appear in paper magic. While there have been a small number of cards that involve making secret choices, there is a world of difference (quantitatively, if not qualitatively) between making a cycle of commander-legal cards where you make 1 choice, reveal it, and don't have to worry about it afterwards versus shoving a big cluster of those cards into historic in a semi-limited format where those cards are all likely to see play for anyone joining the event.
You have mentioned getting into weird situations with commander and being able to lead a 5-color urza deck without problem but do you really feel that those games are representative of magic as a whole? Do you think that the people playing historic want to manually keep track of how many turns you have been playing a game or use stickers/sleeve inserts to track the travel of a persistently altered card through hidden zones? Do you think that players want to wave over a judge every time they want to seek something?
While it is not impossible to do these effects in paper magic, there are a lot of designs that Wizards wouldn't print to appeal to the common denominator. These cards are examples of where people being dumb keeps them from being physically printed and having a digital system that tracks things for you makes it easier on the Arena client.
Actually, let's simplify your argument:
Point 1: If they are going to make cards on arena only, they had better be impossible to replicate on paper.
Point 2: Nothing is impossible to replicate on paper.
Point 3: Ergo, no cards should be on arena only.
This is just sour grapes all the way down.
"Yeah, I did split my hand into four piles with Sarkhan at 7. No, of course it doesn't mean anything."
This is a fallacy. I never said nothing is impossibile to replicate on paper. I just say that most of the designs I see here could had be made in paper, as a novelty supplemental product with his own complexity (just like Commander Forgotten Realms force you to use for the first time in 30 years of game, different kind of dices adding also a new level of complexity of the game) and that is a waste that those designs are available only for online players, because at my eyes such are so cool that should be available for paper players too.
That's a bit different, because Momir take cards from all Magic history and many of them could have an extremely complex or obscure text in a way that if you play many cards with him there are real "memory issues" that makes tracking all single proxy cards a real pain.
This is a very different scenario from, let's say a Davriel, where all his effects are very limited and be tracked easily in a single piece of paper and a dice without adding complexity and memory issues on board in terms of "tokens" that represents actual cards of any kind. You don't even need a computer or internet connection, it's that easy and simple. That's why something like Momir can't be compared to those cards, Momir isn't practical for real, most of these designs au contraire, are easily replicable in paper for a smooth gameplay.
I really don't like this digital only stuff.
uh I think rules committee would emergency ban the sarkhan because of the stacking of the +2 ability (the reduce by 1 part)
Oh and we got another one of the play test cards
look at Sarkhan's Scorn
now look at this
Sarkhan wanderer to shiv:
+1 should be worded diferently, and yeah, the only effect that can only be done in digital from those… the ability works on every dragon in your hand at the time you activate the ability, soo, there will be dragons that will cost 2 less, other that cost 3 less, others that will cost 1 less. In paper you would need to put a reminder in each card in your hand for each time you have activated it while it was in your hand…
+0 “conjure” ???!? Wouldn’t it be easier to say put a card named shivan dragon in your hand from outside the game?
sarkhan’scorn imo should be worded like “control win condition” from the playtest cards.