Some of these cards read and feel like they're from a different game entirely.
I don't like what Wizards is doing. Instead of reviving the Deckmaster brand and making different games with different purposes (OR maintaining one consistent game), they just use the Magic base game for everything, slap on some extra stuff and increase the number of exceptions and "exclusives" - just like with the recent crossover products.
They probably call this innovation, or diversifying the game, or opening it up to new players or any one of these good-sounding things, but to me it just looks like lazy game design and lax brand management.
These mechanics are more interesting than the original Microprose PC game's Astral Cards and cannot be reasonably done on paper.
Seems that reasonable here is highly subjective. I already play in Commander games Urza headmaster academy without any need of a PC because I just have a D20 and a piece of paper with all list of his abilities printed on and I can assure you games play extremely smooth with no confusion whatsoever in my playgroup when I play him. Davriel is no different than that. People are overreacting. This kind of design it is reasonably doable even without erratas for most of the mechanics spoiled.
I don't think anyone is arguing that Davriel can't work in paper, its fiddly but doable unlike a lot of what we've seen.
On the card below, how would you - in paper - seek (randomly move a card fitting the criteria from your deck to your hand) without disturbing the order of cards in your deck and without seeing the order of your deck. If your opponent removed a card facedown (Thief of Sanity), you also aren't allowed to know the composition of your remaining deck, so how do you determine which creature type is most prevalent.
This is where the hidden information issues are a problem.
Some of these cards read and feel like they're from a different game entirely.
This makes more sense to me than the demands for paper and magic to be identical at any cost. If they do a lot of this, it seems like it would change the nature of historic from the place where old standard cards go to some kind alternate universe digital Magic. In paper, Pioneer is where old standard cards go, but they've postponed work on bringing Pioneer to Arena, so it seems quite possible Arena won't really have an "old standard cards" format for a while.
These mechanics are more interesting than the original Microprose PC game's Astral Cards and cannot be reasonably done on paper.
Seems that reasonable here is highly subjective. I already play in Commander games Urza headmaster academy without any need of a PC because I just have a D20 and a piece of paper with all list of his abilities printed on and I can assure you games play extremely smooth with no confusion whatsoever in my playgroup when I play him. Davriel is no different than that. People are overreacting. This kind of design it is reasonably doable even without erratas for most of the mechanics spoiled.
I don't think anyone is arguing that Davriel can't work in paper, its fiddly but doable unlike a lot of what we've seen.
On the card below, how would you - in paper - seek (randomly move a card fitting the criteria from your deck to your hand) without disturbing the order of cards in your deck and without seeing the order of your deck. If your opponent removed a card facedown (Thief of Sanity), you also aren't allowed to know the composition of your remaining deck, so how do you determine which creature type is most prevalent.
This is where the hidden information issues are a problem.
I agree that something like Faceless Agent would be truly annoying and problematic to do in paper. I won't argue that. This is an actual example of card that is very unpractical doing and would waste a bit of time (I mean, theoretically the "third party" the helps you out would work, but I agree that this time would be seriously time consuming). But most of the mechanics that I see, it's not that hard to pull off in paper in one way or another.
I suggest this errata to make the card as close as possible to his original intent for paper purposes "When Faceless Agent enter the battlefield, reveal your library and search your library for a creature card of the most prevalent type in your library and add it in your hand. Then shuffle."
Obviously it would be a bit nerfed and weaked since you are giving out all your deck information, including what you will tutor for. But even with the nerf, this is a very powerful creature tutor that would see play in any tribal EDH deck and maybe even other formats.
I agree that something like Faceless Agent would be truly annoying and problematic to do in paper. I won't argue that. This is an actual example of card that is very unpractical doing and would waste a bit of time (I mean, theoretically the "third party" the helps you out would work, but I agree that this time would be seriously time consuming). But most of the mechanics that I see, it's not that hard to pull off in paper in one way or another.
And that goes back to the original context of argument: yes these COULD be used in paper, but the logistics of that go from fiddly on Davriel to impracticle-near-impossible with Seek. That's the entire point we've been trying make this whole time. Like I said before, these are effectively silver-bordered cards but having the Arena back-end to handle the logistics and tracking means they can see competitive play where they couldn't in paper.
And that goes back to the original context of argument: yes these COULD be used in paper, but the logistics of that go from fiddly on Davriel to impracticle-near-impossible with Seek.
Ok the Seek mechanic is problematic sure, but both Davriel and perpetual effects and conjuring mechanic are easily doable, I already explained why. Most of this cards could had a home in a commmander precon.
edit oh and “Perpetually” actual does exist in paper and that’s the words “For the rest of the game” cards praetor's council and stigma lasher for example
"Perpetual effects" have existed, yes, but to be fair those effects could have easily been emblems, especially Stigma Lasher, but only PWs can create them because....reasons. Personally, when I play Council I just leave it on the field as its own emblem, since it exiles itself.
Seek is rather unneeded, at least I think, as normal search is fine. I get the difference between hidden and known information, but it feels a bit strange to create a new thing just for that.
As we see with Faceless Agent that is a card that cannot be replicated in paper easily.
Conjure is about the only mechanic that is digital only, but with how much it feels like Hearthstone's Discover mechanic it feels uninspired.
I suggest this errata to make the card as close as possible to his original intent for paper purposes "When Faceless Agent enter the battlefield, reveal your library and search your library for a creature card of the most prevalent type in your library and add it in your hand. Then shuffle."
Obviously it would be a bit nerfed and weaked since you are giving out all your deck information, including what you will tutor for. But even with the nerf, this is a very powerful creature tutor that would see play in any tribal EDH deck and maybe even other formats.
That could work they probably just make a new card inspired with that ability instead of doing an errata for paper, even the art isn't really something for paper
Well, I'm excited for this:) A lot of these look boring, But I bet they'll be some really fun ones in here. Now they just need to make brawl historic all the time and they'll have a fun, truly unique format on their hands!
I suggest this errata to make the card as close as possible to his original intent for paper purposes "When Faceless Agent enter the battlefield, reveal your library and search your library for a creature card of the most prevalent type in your library and add it in your hand. Then shuffle."
Obviously it would be a bit nerfed and weaked since you are giving out all your deck information, including what you will tutor for. But even with the nerf, this is a very powerful creature tutor that would see play in any tribal EDH deck and maybe even other formats.
The effect you described is significantly different because (a) it gives both players 100% information about your deck contents, (b) doesn't maintain deck order, and (c) isn't random. Add to that, the most prevelant type of creature in your library will vary based on what you have drawn/milled to that point in the game, which means you will have to count every creature card in your library to determine what kind of creature you can randomly choose from each time you cast it.
Standard games slowed down dramatically due to fetch lands in Tarkir block, just imagine what having to count every card in your deck would do.
And, yes, you do have to consider tournament implications even for commander products because you don't know what cards might break through to Legacy/Vintage. True-Name Nemesis was designed as a neat multiplayer card and was broken competitively within a week. If there is a way to break a card, people will find it.
Magic was a good game as you had to track the game state with your mind, understand whats going on, and know the rules to execute.
NOW in digital you need to barely know anything, it displays you all the things and you can just "fk it" and attack and see what happens.
The game dumbed down drastically.
These cards are designed to further push digital, as the playerbase itself is also effected by this (so they are catered to with digital).
A lot of people here embrace paper for the mental capabilities you need to play the game, thats the fun part after all, otherwise you would just play a video game in the first place.
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The card designs here "can" be changed to reflect a paper variation that works.
Instead of marking a specific card, you can just name the cards name (which does effect all copies) , so thats the normal paper way to easily mark a card, the name is known at all times, anything else you need to "target" it, put a counter on it and the like.
Some mechanics that have no clear visual representation already break this (Monstrosity and such) , thats bad, but it still works out most of the time as its not overly many and complex (and basically always coupled with +1/+1 counters as a reminder).
Permanent effects are covered by Emblems better than just existing (but thats also just a piece of paper or a token with text, its not "actually" a game piece).
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If anything these cards are basically "silver-bordered" , as they are not legal in any paper format.
If they would be, you would need some kind of official app to execute them, which is plain annoying, and for others you cannot play them at all.
For silver-bordered cards they had the idea to have blank text boxes on cards to write stuff in, or make permanent markers for a draft, like they did with draft-only cards.
Such effects are "ok" , but in the end its artificial stuff that deludes the game as a "card game" and requires digital software to play the game at all.
Gimmick mechanics like Dungeon and variations of dice and all of that rip Magic of what made it a great card game.
You really just had to bring your deck of cards and you are ready to play.
Today you need Dungeon cards, plenty of counters, tokens, maybe energy-counter dice, treasure tokens, and all other nonsense that adds trash to the game (ever experienced the amount of paper pieces in a casual game ? When people just rip little pieces of a paper, its a lot of trash thats left on the table).
The game is a CARD game, and it got out of hand quite drastically and keeps getting worse in that aspect.
Some of these cards read and feel like they're from a different game entirely.
This makes more sense to me than the demands for paper and magic to be identical at any cost. If they do a lot of this, it seems like it would change the nature of historic from the place where old standard cards go to some kind alternate universe digital Magic. In paper, Pioneer is where old standard cards go, but they've postponed work on bringing Pioneer to Arena, so it seems quite possible Arena won't really have an "old standard cards" format for a while.
It's pretty apparent how this decision changes the characteristics of the Historic format, and the reason is quite simple: Injecting new stuff in an already existing format garners the interest of more players, which results in more money made.
Now you don't have to tell me that it's the goal of every company to make money, thank you very much. I can very much see how crossover sets and Secret Lairs, digital-only cards etc. are good from a financial standpoint.
What has been really turning me off when it comes to these developments lately is how they try to sugar-coat and lampshade everything by with rhetoric á la "Magic has survived until now, so it will continue to do so" and "it brings new players to the game." I know they have no other choice, but I still hate it.
In an universe where Wizards hadn't made any Un-Sets until 2021, they would without a doubt make the cards black border and dump them in some established format to boost sales. Until a few years ago their boundaries were clearer, and the game as a whole had more consistency as a result. Basic stuff like "no dice-rolling in black-bordered Magic" and so on. Now they basically do whatever makes them money and handwave concerns with "it'll be fine", "it's not for you then" and "innovation."
While it is easy to forget, cards should be playable unsleeved.
DFCs work because of checklist cards. I can write “delver of secrets” on a checklist card and have in in my library every game.
For this ability, you are either recommending putting stickers on cards and repeatedly removing them (which would ruin the card or the sticker) or writing on a checklist-esque card something like “delver of secrets for 2 mana”, which wouldn’t be true at the start of each game and would require you to regularly replace those cards.
Sleeves are not and should not be mandatory equipment for a card effect to function.
Thanks for this. I needed some logic in the face of "well if you do a handstand and face left you can kinda see how these cards would work in paper Magic and everyone pretty much has the ability to do a handstand anyways, so I don't see what the issue is."
The second issue that noone is bringing up, besides the marked cards issue (of which I have another speaking point as well that I'll address further down) is that "Perpetually" doesn't just mean while it is on the battlefield. It means when it goes to ANY zone. Several people have suggested Skullbriar as a comparable example except that even he was designed to lose his counters in a hidden zone such as the hand or the Library. A card that perpetually Costs 1 more to cast costs one more to cast even if it has been exiled and back, has been shuffled into a library and redrawn (how do you distinguish it from other potential copies in the same deck?), dies and is returned to your hand via a Raise Dead-like card. Even if you were to mark it with stickers, have you ever tried to shuffle with stickers on the outside of a sleeve? I have. I can tell you that anything "easily removable" would potentially transfer to another card during shuffling if not be wiped from the sleeve entirely. And even if it DID stay, there's the matter of that card having an additional thickness which makes it a marked card. I don't care how few microns thick you think your sticker is, if a perfect fit sleeve adds thickness to a double-sleeved card, so will a sticker.
Lastly, there is human error whether intentionally or unintentionally. Lets say that I accidentally leave a sticker on between games where one of my cards was Perpetually given deathtouch (and for all you naysayers, if you've ever had an opponents card left in your deck after the game you would know that it happens without conscious effort) what is to stop me from claiming that I actually had this perpetual effect on my creature? If I could reasonably claim that my graveyard was shuffled into my library, there is nothing the judge can do but let me blatantly cheat and have that advantage over my opponent.
Don't get me wrong, as a huge HUGE proponent of everything Silver-Bordered I relish the craziness of these cards but even Silver-Bordered cards, no matter how wacky, have rules that govern how they work and NEVER give an unfair advantage (unless interpreted incorrectly like all the people trying to hide Cheatyfaces under cards).
Magic was a good game as you had to track the game state with your mind, understand whats going on, and know the rules to execute.
NOW in digital you need to barely know anything, it displays you all the things and you can just "fk it" and attack and see what happens.
The game dumbed down drastically.
These cards are designed to further push digital, as the playerbase itself is also effected by this (so they are catered to with digital).
A lot of people here embrace paper for the mental capabilities you need to play the game, thats the fun part after all, otherwise you would just play a video game in the first place.
Magic is a game, not a tool for you to feel superior. Games need players, and since the old guard is constantly dwindling, we constantly need new blood.
Imagine if they smarted up the game to the point that only your clearly superior intellect could handle it. Do you think it would still be easy to find a commander game? Do you think FNMs would still be regularly attended? Would you be happy to have no one to play with because it proves how much smarter you are?
Magic is the most complicated game in the world, to the degree that making it a little more approachable isn't going to change that.
Gimmick mechanics like Dungeon and variations of dice and all of that rip Magic of what made it a great card game.
You really just had to bring your deck of cards and you are ready to play.
Today you need Dungeon cards, plenty of counters, tokens, maybe energy-counter dice, treasure tokens, and all other nonsense that adds trash to the game (ever experienced the amount of paper pieces in a casual game ? When people just rip little pieces of a paper, its a lot of trash thats left on the table).
The game is a CARD game, and it got out of hand quite drastically and keeps getting worse in that aspect.
My first commander deck was a token deck. I've needed this stuff for the past 10 years. This isn't new, Magic doesn't suddenly suck.
Please, mill me. Mill my important cards. Mill my lands. Mill it all. Because I will still deal 20 damage before you can mill 45 cards most every time.
Magic is a game, not a tool for you to feel superior. Games need players, and since the old guard is constantly dwindling, we constantly need new blood.
Imagine if they smarted up the game to the point that only your clearly superior intellect could handle it. Do you think it would still be easy to find a commander game? Do you think FNMs would still be regularly attended? Would you be happy to have no one to play with because it proves how much smarter you are?
Magic is the most complicated game in the world, to the degree that making it a little more approachable isn't going to change that.
My first commander deck was a token deck. I've needed this stuff for the past 10 years. This isn't new, Magic doesn't suddenly suck.
Regular intelligence clearly suffices to play, to play well, it does not (like it or not, its what it is).
But there was a reason that magic was played a lot by students , and now its increasingly casual, there are simply more casual gamers, especially in todays times (Entertainment, video games, its not fringe, its as mainstream as it gets).
And to make money is a twofold. You can make a good product and sell it as the quality is high (thats not the case for Magic, simply look at curling foils).
Or you make a product for the casual and appeal to the addictive nature of the buyer (As magic boosters are quite literally MicroTransactions and LootBoxes).
Plenty of people that are addicted to gambling, catering to that crowd isnt making a good product, its selling to addicted people (questionable business practice, but it brings in big money, if anything politics has to make rules to prevent this, but especially right now, they dont care at all).
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Anyway, people love the game, and nostalgia keeps you playing (as you can very well just choose to ignore all new cards, and cherry pick only the few you like, what a lot of people do, especially Commander players that very rarely add new cards to their existing decks).
And different people expect different directions and will absolutely tell if things get worse for them and their players (visible by the amount of LGS dying, not just because of the pandemic, but because of how WotC is treating them, theres a reason WotC is opting for big stores like Walmart and retail sellers like Amazon, they want to reach as many players as possible, and sell them the most expensive products possible).
Bunch of areas dont even have a LGS anywhere in reach, so they dont even have the option to play in paper outside of their own kitchen table.
So its a culture that is dying here, artificially as WotC is bleeding them out (so as of right now, WotC is sucking money out of plenty of LGS stores, when they are gone, the future might look different, as the vast amount of monetary value of magic cards is in the hand of nostalgia players and collectable stores).
If you enjoy that direction the game is going, wonderful.
You can also enjoy the game and still point out if something is arguably going wrong, the entire point of having a discussion in the first place (its not 100% hate or 100% agreeing, its plenty in between).
And its always healthy to hear other opinions from time to time, so you dont suffocate in a bubble, and their opinion is not a personal attack against anybody, you can disagree and still go on with your life.
The perpetual effects wouldn’t be too hard to do in paper provided everyone is playing with sleeved cards. Stick a very thin piece of paper between the sleeve and the card with whatever effect is perpetually given to the card then go through and remove the paper notes after each game ends, similar to unsideboarding. Downside is that at the start of the game each player would have to deck check their opponent to make sure nobody is cheating, so its doable but not practical.
Regular intelligence clearly suffices to play, to play well, it does not (like it or not, its what it is).
But there was a reason that magic was played a lot by students , and now its increasingly casual, there are simply more casual gamers, especially in todays times (Entertainment, video games, its not fringe, its as mainstream as it gets).
And to make money is a twofold. You can make a good product and sell it as the quality is high (thats not the case for Magic, simply look at curling foils).
Or you make a product for the casual and appeal to the addictive nature of the buyer (As magic boosters are quite literally MicroTransactions and LootBoxes).
Plenty of people that are addicted to gambling, catering to that crowd isnt making a good product, its selling to addicted people (questionable business practice, but it brings in big money, if anything politics has to make rules to prevent this, but especially right now, they dont care at all).
Magic invented lootboxes. I don't understand why you are acting like this is a new development. Either Magic has always been bad for taking advantage of gambling addiction, or it is still good in spite of it.
I don't see what the problem with casuals is either. No one has the energy to be hardcore with everything. Either you only play Magic or you yourself are a "filthy casual" in someone else's community. You can make a good game and appeal to casuals, they're not mutually exclusive. Wizards has made a lot of missteps in the past couple years, but there is no reason to believe this is because they sold you out for the dreaded casuals. You're just grasping for any reason you can find to feel superior to other people. I can handle disagreement, bit I am so sick of your damn gatekeeping.
And different people expect different directions and will absolutely tell if things get worse for them and their players (visible by the amount of LGS dying, not just because of the pandemic, but because of how WotC is treating them, theres a reason WotC is opting for big stores like Walmart and retail sellers like Amazon, they want to reach as many players as possible, and sell them the most expensive products possible).
Bunch of areas dont even have a LGS anywhere in reach, so they dont even have the option to play in paper outside of their own kitchen table.
So its a culture that is dying here, artificially as WotC is bleeding them out (so as of right now, WotC is sucking money out of plenty of LGS stores, when they are gone, the future might look different, as the vast amount of monetary value of magic cards is in the hand of nostalgia players and collectable stores).
I seriously doubt this is the case, but you know what? I'll ask my LGS how they feel they've been treated.
Please, mill me. Mill my important cards. Mill my lands. Mill it all. Because I will still deal 20 damage before you can mill 45 cards most every time.
Just look also at the new card spoiled, bounty of the deep https://scryfall.com/card/j21/999-BOTD/bounty-of-the-deep
Even if you nerf that card to be just paper playable (like revealing the cards you tutor and shuffle the deck), that would still be one of the most efficent and overpowered tutors in Magic history that would see play in all formats is legal in.
Unless I'm missing something, that seems like a bit of an exaggeration to me. Getting to somewhat control whether it's grabbing two non-lands or a non-land and a land is great, but the fact that you don't really have control over the specific cards you're grabbing makes it seem more like a pumped up divination than one of the most overpowered tutors in magic history.
I really don't like the perpetual mechanic. Both seek and conjure are fine, as they basically already have paper analogues (searching a library and creating a token copy). Yes, seek is random and conjure actually *makes* a new object that is actually a card, They aren't actually *breaking* any of Magics rules, more just doing something that, under them, would be difficult or impossible to resolve accurately. Perpetual, on the other hand, asks to ignore a major rule that is at the heart of significant numbers of card interactions...objects changing zones become (effectively) new objects. This, unlike the other mechanics, is not just asking to do something that would be unfeasible in paper, but also something the rules are expressly *not* okay with allowing. Idk, maybe I'm just a Magic boomer, but that mechanic really just rubs me the wrong way.
Tried it just now. Can cut to it about as easily as a foil.
Oh really? In that case, replace instead the marked card with a basic land where you write "[Cardname] and [Perpetually effect] in that case, and now tell me how you will cheat that once is reshuffled. Let's bet that you can't and so that it is actually possible to mark a perpetual card without cheating the game?
I get it that you don't like the truth that you just don't like the solutions available, but please stop saying that it's just impossible to do it in tabletop game or there is some cheating issue bull***** because it is simply not true.
Dude, you are trying way too hard. You've died on the hill, then your corpse has been dug up so you could die on it again. We get it. You think these cards could easily work in paper.
(They can't.)
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I don't like what Wizards is doing. Instead of reviving the Deckmaster brand and making different games with different purposes (OR maintaining one consistent game), they just use the Magic base game for everything, slap on some extra stuff and increase the number of exceptions and "exclusives" - just like with the recent crossover products.
They probably call this innovation, or diversifying the game, or opening it up to new players or any one of these good-sounding things, but to me it just looks like lazy game design and lax brand management.
I don't think anyone is arguing that Davriel can't work in paper, its fiddly but doable unlike a lot of what we've seen.
On the card below, how would you - in paper - seek (randomly move a card fitting the criteria from your deck to your hand) without disturbing the order of cards in your deck and without seeing the order of your deck. If your opponent removed a card facedown (Thief of Sanity), you also aren't allowed to know the composition of your remaining deck, so how do you determine which creature type is most prevalent.
This is where the hidden information issues are a problem.
This makes more sense to me than the demands for paper and magic to be identical at any cost. If they do a lot of this, it seems like it would change the nature of historic from the place where old standard cards go to some kind alternate universe digital Magic. In paper, Pioneer is where old standard cards go, but they've postponed work on bringing Pioneer to Arena, so it seems quite possible Arena won't really have an "old standard cards" format for a while.
I agree that something like Faceless Agent would be truly annoying and problematic to do in paper. I won't argue that. This is an actual example of card that is very unpractical doing and would waste a bit of time (I mean, theoretically the "third party" the helps you out would work, but I agree that this time would be seriously time consuming). But most of the mechanics that I see, it's not that hard to pull off in paper in one way or another.
I suggest this errata to make the card as close as possible to his original intent for paper purposes "When Faceless Agent enter the battlefield, reveal your library and search your library for a creature card of the most prevalent type in your library and add it in your hand. Then shuffle."
Obviously it would be a bit nerfed and weaked since you are giving out all your deck information, including what you will tutor for. But even with the nerf, this is a very powerful creature tutor that would see play in any tribal EDH deck and maybe even other formats.
And that goes back to the original context of argument: yes these COULD be used in paper, but the logistics of that go from fiddly on Davriel to impracticle-near-impossible with Seek. That's the entire point we've been trying make this whole time. Like I said before, these are effectively silver-bordered cards but having the Arena back-end to handle the logistics and tracking means they can see competitive play where they couldn't in paper.
Ok the Seek mechanic is problematic sure, but both Davriel and perpetual effects and conjuring mechanic are easily doable, I already explained why. Most of this cards could had a home in a commmander precon.
"Perpetual effects" have existed, yes, but to be fair those effects could have easily been emblems, especially Stigma Lasher, but only PWs can create them because....reasons. Personally, when I play Council I just leave it on the field as its own emblem, since it exiles itself.
Seek is rather unneeded, at least I think, as normal search is fine. I get the difference between hidden and known information, but it feels a bit strange to create a new thing just for that.
As we see with Faceless Agent that is a card that cannot be replicated in paper easily.
Conjure is about the only mechanic that is digital only, but with how much it feels like Hearthstone's Discover mechanic it feels uninspired.
and also the some Shandanar exclusive cards like Perpetually alike
imagine a new mechanic like infect or wither having a perpetually effect instead
That could work they probably just make a new card inspired with that ability instead of doing an errata for paper, even the art isn't really something for paper
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fm-aIhjWSbg
The effect you described is significantly different because (a) it gives both players 100% information about your deck contents, (b) doesn't maintain deck order, and (c) isn't random. Add to that, the most prevelant type of creature in your library will vary based on what you have drawn/milled to that point in the game, which means you will have to count every creature card in your library to determine what kind of creature you can randomly choose from each time you cast it.
Standard games slowed down dramatically due to fetch lands in Tarkir block, just imagine what having to count every card in your deck would do.
And, yes, you do have to consider tournament implications even for commander products because you don't know what cards might break through to Legacy/Vintage. True-Name Nemesis was designed as a neat multiplayer card and was broken competitively within a week. If there is a way to break a card, people will find it.
NOW in digital you need to barely know anything, it displays you all the things and you can just "fk it" and attack and see what happens.
The game dumbed down drastically.
These cards are designed to further push digital, as the playerbase itself is also effected by this (so they are catered to with digital).
A lot of people here embrace paper for the mental capabilities you need to play the game, thats the fun part after all, otherwise you would just play a video game in the first place.
----
The card designs here "can" be changed to reflect a paper variation that works.
Instead of marking a specific card, you can just name the cards name (which does effect all copies) , so thats the normal paper way to easily mark a card, the name is known at all times, anything else you need to "target" it, put a counter on it and the like.
Some mechanics that have no clear visual representation already break this (Monstrosity and such) , thats bad, but it still works out most of the time as its not overly many and complex (and basically always coupled with +1/+1 counters as a reminder).
Permanent effects are covered by Emblems better than just existing (but thats also just a piece of paper or a token with text, its not "actually" a game piece).
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If anything these cards are basically "silver-bordered" , as they are not legal in any paper format.
If they would be, you would need some kind of official app to execute them, which is plain annoying, and for others you cannot play them at all.
For silver-bordered cards they had the idea to have blank text boxes on cards to write stuff in, or make permanent markers for a draft, like they did with draft-only cards.
Such effects are "ok" , but in the end its artificial stuff that deludes the game as a "card game" and requires digital software to play the game at all.
Gimmick mechanics like Dungeon and variations of dice and all of that rip Magic of what made it a great card game.
You really just had to bring your deck of cards and you are ready to play.
Today you need Dungeon cards, plenty of counters, tokens, maybe energy-counter dice, treasure tokens, and all other nonsense that adds trash to the game (ever experienced the amount of paper pieces in a casual game ? When people just rip little pieces of a paper, its a lot of trash thats left on the table).
The game is a CARD game, and it got out of hand quite drastically and keeps getting worse in that aspect.
WUBRG#BlackLotusMatterWUBRG
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Now you don't have to tell me that it's the goal of every company to make money, thank you very much. I can very much see how crossover sets and Secret Lairs, digital-only cards etc. are good from a financial standpoint.
What has been really turning me off when it comes to these developments lately is how they try to sugar-coat and lampshade everything by with rhetoric á la "Magic has survived until now, so it will continue to do so" and "it brings new players to the game." I know they have no other choice, but I still hate it.
In an universe where Wizards hadn't made any Un-Sets until 2021, they would without a doubt make the cards black border and dump them in some established format to boost sales. Until a few years ago their boundaries were clearer, and the game as a whole had more consistency as a result. Basic stuff like "no dice-rolling in black-bordered Magic" and so on. Now they basically do whatever makes them money and handwave concerns with "it'll be fine", "it's not for you then" and "innovation."
Thanks for this. I needed some logic in the face of "well if you do a handstand and face left you can kinda see how these cards would work in paper Magic and everyone pretty much has the ability to do a handstand anyways, so I don't see what the issue is."
The second issue that noone is bringing up, besides the marked cards issue (of which I have another speaking point as well that I'll address further down) is that "Perpetually" doesn't just mean while it is on the battlefield. It means when it goes to ANY zone. Several people have suggested Skullbriar as a comparable example except that even he was designed to lose his counters in a hidden zone such as the hand or the Library. A card that perpetually Costs 1 more to cast costs one more to cast even if it has been exiled and back, has been shuffled into a library and redrawn (how do you distinguish it from other potential copies in the same deck?), dies and is returned to your hand via a Raise Dead-like card. Even if you were to mark it with stickers, have you ever tried to shuffle with stickers on the outside of a sleeve? I have. I can tell you that anything "easily removable" would potentially transfer to another card during shuffling if not be wiped from the sleeve entirely. And even if it DID stay, there's the matter of that card having an additional thickness which makes it a marked card. I don't care how few microns thick you think your sticker is, if a perfect fit sleeve adds thickness to a double-sleeved card, so will a sticker.
Lastly, there is human error whether intentionally or unintentionally. Lets say that I accidentally leave a sticker on between games where one of my cards was Perpetually given deathtouch (and for all you naysayers, if you've ever had an opponents card left in your deck after the game you would know that it happens without conscious effort) what is to stop me from claiming that I actually had this perpetual effect on my creature? If I could reasonably claim that my graveyard was shuffled into my library, there is nothing the judge can do but let me blatantly cheat and have that advantage over my opponent.
Don't get me wrong, as a huge HUGE proponent of everything Silver-Bordered I relish the craziness of these cards but even Silver-Bordered cards, no matter how wacky, have rules that govern how they work and NEVER give an unfair advantage (unless interpreted incorrectly like all the people trying to hide Cheatyfaces under cards).
Magic is a game, not a tool for you to feel superior. Games need players, and since the old guard is constantly dwindling, we constantly need new blood.
Imagine if they smarted up the game to the point that only your clearly superior intellect could handle it. Do you think it would still be easy to find a commander game? Do you think FNMs would still be regularly attended? Would you be happy to have no one to play with because it proves how much smarter you are?
Magic is the most complicated game in the world, to the degree that making it a little more approachable isn't going to change that.
My first commander deck was a token deck. I've needed this stuff for the past 10 years. This isn't new, Magic doesn't suddenly suck.
Regular intelligence clearly suffices to play, to play well, it does not (like it or not, its what it is).
But there was a reason that magic was played a lot by students , and now its increasingly casual, there are simply more casual gamers, especially in todays times (Entertainment, video games, its not fringe, its as mainstream as it gets).
And to make money is a twofold. You can make a good product and sell it as the quality is high (thats not the case for Magic, simply look at curling foils).
Or you make a product for the casual and appeal to the addictive nature of the buyer (As magic boosters are quite literally MicroTransactions and LootBoxes).
Plenty of people that are addicted to gambling, catering to that crowd isnt making a good product, its selling to addicted people (questionable business practice, but it brings in big money, if anything politics has to make rules to prevent this, but especially right now, they dont care at all).
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Anyway, people love the game, and nostalgia keeps you playing (as you can very well just choose to ignore all new cards, and cherry pick only the few you like, what a lot of people do, especially Commander players that very rarely add new cards to their existing decks).
And different people expect different directions and will absolutely tell if things get worse for them and their players (visible by the amount of LGS dying, not just because of the pandemic, but because of how WotC is treating them, theres a reason WotC is opting for big stores like Walmart and retail sellers like Amazon, they want to reach as many players as possible, and sell them the most expensive products possible).
Bunch of areas dont even have a LGS anywhere in reach, so they dont even have the option to play in paper outside of their own kitchen table.
So its a culture that is dying here, artificially as WotC is bleeding them out (so as of right now, WotC is sucking money out of plenty of LGS stores, when they are gone, the future might look different, as the vast amount of monetary value of magic cards is in the hand of nostalgia players and collectable stores).
If you enjoy that direction the game is going, wonderful.
You can also enjoy the game and still point out if something is arguably going wrong, the entire point of having a discussion in the first place (its not 100% hate or 100% agreeing, its plenty in between).
And its always healthy to hear other opinions from time to time, so you dont suffocate in a bubble, and their opinion is not a personal attack against anybody, you can disagree and still go on with your life.
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I don't see what the problem with casuals is either. No one has the energy to be hardcore with everything. Either you only play Magic or you yourself are a "filthy casual" in someone else's community. You can make a good game and appeal to casuals, they're not mutually exclusive. Wizards has made a lot of missteps in the past couple years, but there is no reason to believe this is because they sold you out for the dreaded casuals. You're just grasping for any reason you can find to feel superior to other people. I can handle disagreement, bit I am so sick of your damn gatekeeping.
I seriously doubt this is the case, but you know what? I'll ask my LGS how they feel they've been treated.
Seems you have a specific picture in your mind, but sorry thats not me.
Might lead to some enlightening revelations, if you know them well enough that they trust you.
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Unless I'm missing something, that seems like a bit of an exaggeration to me. Getting to somewhat control whether it's grabbing two non-lands or a non-land and a land is great, but the fact that you don't really have control over the specific cards you're grabbing makes it seem more like a pumped up divination than one of the most overpowered tutors in magic history.
Dude, you are trying way too hard. You've died on the hill, then your corpse has been dug up so you could die on it again. We get it. You think these cards could easily work in paper.
(They can't.)