At this rate, one can imagine Commander games in five years will probably sound something like this...
Player A: "I equip my legendary Hobo with Rutger's Shotgun, and swing at your Trailer Park Boy" Player B: "I respond by attaching Cerebro to Spock, and activate Mind Meld targeting Hollywood Hulk Hogan equipped with Vibranium Shield to remove your hobo from combat" Player C: "Wait a Second!...Didn't I still have priority to Quantum Leap Mister Peanut and The Monopoly Man when you planeshifted to Trump Tower?! Player D: "Sorry to interrupt as well, but how many Golden Girl tokens hit the graveyard when you blocked Urkel and Rambo last turn? Player E: "Honestly, even if you all had The Delta Variant to target me and T-800s equipped with Lightsabers to protect you, I'm still crewing The Delorean with The Cigarette Smoking Man now to go back twenty turns and restart the game." <all sigh>
Sorry if I "jumped the shark", but it's honestly getting difficult to even recognize Magic cards now with all the new showcase and Secret Lair alternate art styles and borderless variants. It should be of great concern that eventually, after adding so many random characters from other universes, MTG will look like a new Capcom vs Marvel sequel, not something which is beautifully unique and continues to thrive solely because of its own well developed lore, rich themes, and strong characters. Were sales declining so much during the pandemic that they needed cross-cultural crutches to boost popularity or collectability?
I've been happy to support many Secret Lair drops to date, sometimes ordering them in multiples, but this misguided product is a miss, and just makes me want to ask... Why not simply print 'Secret Lair: Eldrazi' instead to bring down the price of Kozilek and friends (something many of us probably want and would be happier with)?
You didn't jump the shark, you rode the slippery slope all the way to its improbable conclusion.
Were sales declining so much during the pandemic that they needed cross-cultural crutches to boost popularity or collectability?
To my understanding, sales - and the popularity of Magic in general - have never been higher. You wouldn't know it by reading this message board, but people seem to actually like what WotC is doing.
At this rate, one can imagine Commander games in five years will probably sound something like this...
Player A: "I equip my legendary Hobo with Rutger's Shotgun, and swing at your Trailer Park Boy" Player B: "I respond by attaching Cerebro to Spock, and activate Mind Meld targeting Hollywood Hulk Hogan equipped with Vibranium Shield to remove your hobo from combat" Player C: "Wait a Second!...Didn't I still have priority to Quantum Leap Mister Peanut and The Monopoly Man when you planeshifted to Trump Tower?! Player D: "Sorry to interrupt as well, but how many Golden Girl tokens hit the graveyard when you blocked Urkel and Rambo last turn? Player E: "Honestly, even if you all had The Delta Variant to target me and T-800s equipped with Lightsabers to protect you, I'm still crewing The Delorean with The Cigarette Smoking Man now to go back twenty turns and restart the game." <all sigh>
/thread
That's already what is happening with casual players playing with their custom-made decks made wuth MSE on Cockatrice, no big deal.
Folks doing what they wish in their own free time is definitely not the same as this.
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What I can tell you, neither I like Arabian Nights or Portal 3 Kingdom flavor setting, but I simply don't care if people like to play stuff from these sets, gameplay is more important than flavor purism for me, people will get used to it, because seriously is not that of a big deal if not for the maniacal vorthosian purists and thats it.
What I can tell you, neither I like Arabian Nights or Portal 3 Kingdom flavor setting, but I simply don't care if people like to play stuff from these sets, gameplay is more important than flavor purism for me, people will get used to it, because seriously is not that of a big deal if not for the maniacal vorthosian purists and thats it.
Its more a thing of how often you see it.
If you can overlook it fine, but if its still annoying it takes away from the game.
As it is, its rare to see Arabian Nights or Portal cards at all and even if, they look like normal magic cards and its not particularly invasive.
If you put silly stuff on cards that changes quickly.
Doing so in a "silver-bordered" environment is perfectly acceptable, as you can more easily make a cut for a format, so people that dont want them can enjoy it without , and others allow them.
As these cards are just legal by default it has a couple of issues it piggybacks on, which are entirely unnecessary and forced.
I'm really glad that someone brought up the fact that P3k and Arabian Nights are sets that ALSO fit this break of UB. I'm a fierce advocate of Rule 0 and while I can kinda see someone getting upset about silver-bordered cards at the table, it irks me that people will actively bar people from using these cards. Yeah, I don't give a flip about your semantics of "I'm not saying that they can't play with them I'm just saying that I'm not going to play with someone that plays them." It's still gatekeeping.
But gatekeeping discussion aside, for those naysayers that say that "noone plays cards from Arabian Nights or P3k" I have for you the following list:
Loyal Retainers
Capture of Jingzhou
Strategic Planning
Sun Quan, Lord of Wu
Ambition's Cost
Cao Cao, Lord of Wei
Imperial Seal
Overwhelming Forces
Xiahou Dun, the One-eyed
Burning of Xinye
Imperial Recruiter
Rolling Earthquake
Warrior's Oath
Hua Tuo, Honored Physician
Riding the Dilu Horse
Spoils of Victory
Three Visits
Guardian Beast
Ouellette
Bazaar of Baghdad
City of Brass
Library of Alexandria
If I come across anyone so ignorant as to refuse to play with UB cards, or "ban them" I'll be more than happy to exclude any card originally printed in either Arabian Nights or P3k from being played. Then we can all be unhappy.
I'm really glad that someone brought up the fact that P3k and Arabian Nights are sets that ALSO fit this break of UB. I'm a fierce advocate of Rule 0 and while I can kinda see someone getting upset about silver-bordered cards at the table, it irks me that people will actively bar people from using these cards. Yeah, I don't give a flip about your semantics of "I'm not saying that they can't play with them I'm just saying that I'm not going to play with someone that plays them." It's still gatekeeping.
But gatekeeping discussion aside, for those naysayers that say that "noone plays cards from Arabian Nights or P3k" I have for you the following list:
Loyal Retainers
This is an interesting argument, if we go by the "near 30 years ago they did this a couple of times" you could use that same argument for giving blueburnagain, land destruction or damage prevention.
The game vastly changed since then and those characters and stories are far more linked to mythology than say a particular story and the fact that they gave up on it in lieu of doing their own stories, lore, and mythology along with not trying it for another 20+ years sort of lends some credence in the "this doesn't work" camp.
Of course nowadays crossovers are all the rage and with that especially WotC is definitely introducing some AAA video game industry stuff into the game the past couple of years, and part of that is crossovers among with many other aspects. Some are getting tired of this, just like with superhero movies, zombie iconography, and others that have plagued media for the last decade. Others of course have seen Magic stay more or less pure for two decades now and this does feel like it's cheapening the brand considerably.
Honestly, all of this is eye rolling. Not even a year into UB and we'll have 2 SLs and a core set removed (yay no reprints!) and we still have a full set and commander deck series changed coming up. What became "we might do it again" is now "get used to it f***os, we're making money and we'll kick this dead horse until you can see the Nike symbol on it. Now let's talk about the Mountain Dew Black Lotus." About five years ago this was "nah, we're not gonna do crossovers, it might cheapen Magic" to "you can fight space gods with squirrels, so this makes perfect sense now buy some Spongebob PWs for your Legacy Deck to have a chance at being a pro!"
Between this and the absolute tsunami of product Magic has pumped out the last two years this looks far more like a gacha game lately than the longest running card game in the world. This week is TWD banner, next week is Stranger Things banner, and stay tuned for the eventual power creep we'll shove in with these units/cards that you'll just have to get to stay competitive.
I'll say this, it's stupid to say you wouldn't play with someone with those cards, just like it's stupid to say you don't like people that don't like UB. It's no different than saying "I won't play against turn 1 infinite combo" or a specific format and you wouldn't judge them for not playing a format, would you?
In the end as the crossovers become money makers it is far more likely that Magic will be an IP licensing vehicle more so than it's own thing. Companies don't stop when they make money and Hasbro/WotC see just how much they can make by pushing this out. They'll push it until something makes them stop either no more money coming in or, much like with loot boxes, regulations get thrown in and I don't see either happening any time soon with this.
Before the whole "that's just doom and gloom, don't worry" argument I'll point to the video game industry for just how bad it got and how bad it still is as my example.
Speaking of power creep, MTG Historian had to remind people that Baneslayer Angel is in Standard. Baneslayer. A once OP card in its day.
Have things gotten so powerful that people forgot about Baneslayer being in a format alongside things like Eugene and what have you?
Quote from Dontrike »
In the end as the crossovers become money makers it is far more likely that Magic will be an IP licensing vehicle more so than it's own thing. Companies don't stop when they make money and Hasbro/WotC see just how much they can make by pushing this out. They'll push it until something makes them stop either no more money coming in or, much like with loot boxes, regulations get thrown in and I don't see either happening any time soon with this.
Companies squeeze out as much money from something if sales are any indication of such. Which is why we haven't been seeing settings like Kamigawa or Ulgrotha as main settings lately since their respective inceptions.
However, I'm sure that if they were to one or both of those two back sales would be wild. (Although you could argue that Innistrad is the lovechild of The Dark and Homelands but I digress).
The consumer base is very fickle; I don't think they even know what they want. A lot of this is driven by emotion. That also holds relevance: What is important to you may not be important to someone else. You don't determine what ought to be "standard" in Magic in terms of how or why things get played/bought. All you can do really is play along and choose to opt out when able. WOTC is easily and undeniably playing into the financial reasons for this. They know people will buy it for the sake of having something in pop culture represented in MTG form.
Tired argument but it holds true. So who knows what will happen.
'buster
P.S: D&D is going to be a super popular set because of its tie in with D&D and that player base. It will probably be one of the best selling sets of all time. Watch.
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'buster
HR Analyst. Gamer. Activist | Fearless, and forthright | Aggro-control is a mindset. Elspeth and Jhoira rock my world.
Once all is said and done the real problem won't be the many different IPs with many different mechanically more or less unique cards that nevertheless are easily legible, but having the same card reprinted in a dozen different Collector Boosters and Secret Lairs with textless/borderless versions with illustrations that make it hard to tell even the cardname or mana cost because all was incorporated into the artwork, or because they thought black-on-black planeswalkers would look cool and forgot they were still making game pieces that sometimes need to get played by people that don't have permanent internet access.
Add to that the cards that will have two versions with different English cardnames courtesy of the Godzilla-experiment.
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Quote from Conuly »
Heck, every day I wake up, I don't go out and kill people - and I'm rewarded by not having legions of enemies! Amazing how that works.
Although ninjas are experts of camouflage and concealment, they are actually horrible liars. This means that no matter where you are, you can shout out, “Are there any ninjas here?” and if there’s a ninja within earshot, he’ll be compelled to respond.
I'll say this, it's stupid to say you wouldn't play with someone with those cards, just like it's stupid to say you don't like people that don't like UB. It's no different than saying "I won't play against turn 1 infinite combo" or a specific format and you wouldn't judge them for not playing a format, would you?
It is different. One is mechanics and power level, the other is art and card name. Apples and oranges.
This is an interesting argument, if we go by the "near 30 years ago they did this a couple of times" you could use that same argument for giving blue burn again, land destruction or damage prevention.
Weird thing I know, but, things changes, and not only changes, sometimes reverts too ( * pikachu surprised face meme * )
Alpha Lighting Bolt printed text : "Lightning Bolt deals 3 damage to one target."
Almost every other printing in Magic History till Dominaria : "Lighting Bolt deals 3 damage to target creature or player."
Current Bolt oracle text: "Lightning Bolt deals 3 damage to any target."
Very similar, right? But wait, there's more
Storm, dredge, affinity. For years WotC tought were mechanics so broken that should never appear again, because they are too harmful for the game, conceptually an error to not repeat again. And yet now appears recently in supplemental sets like Commander or Modern Horizon. Or crazy broken stuff like Channel or Tainted Pact being legal in formats like historic!
Time Vault. A card that since the beginning of the game was planned to be broken and that could work with alpha printing Twiddle. For over a decade WotC tought that card should have an errata that couldn't work with any card that could untaps artifacts. Then, they changed their idea again, and decided to give the original intended function, despite being completely broken and making the card spike in price again of thousands of dollars.
Books! Magic lore started with books. Then, for a long while, WotC tought "screw books, our uncharted realms and planeswalker guides articles will be more than enough", and now magic books are returning again.
Core Sets! Core Sets were a part of Magic since the first alpha printing. Then WotC tought "Wait, Core Sets are not a good thing anymore, we don't need them", and didnt use them for years. Turn out they changed their idea again and now Core Sets are again a staple in magic products.
Chaos Warp! Since the beginning, Mark Rosewater said it was a color pie error that should never be supported again, in no way red should be able to get rid of enchantments no matter the drawback. Well guess what, since those words Chaos Warp was printed 14 times, and now thanks to the mystical strixhaven reprint is even legal to the historic format too! https://scryfall.com/search?as=grid&order=released&q=!"Chaos Warp" include:extras&unique=prints
I could continue forever, but those are all examples that proves the logical fallacy of who think that once Wizard from A turns to B, should never go back A again, because A was an ontological failure while B the illuminated progression. Sometimes this is true, other times it isn't. So it perfectly legit to claim P3K and Arabian Nights as precedents of UB, because now WotC realize that Magic Sets with no Magic IP could, in fact, be good for the game, and not only because in any case gameplay in the end trumps flavor, but that many maigc players enjoy crossovers and flavor familiar with the others IP they love and that most players, except the famous "maniacal vorthosian purists" don't mind to play their Magic IP cards along with Non-Magic IP cards together or against (and I speak as vorthos myself!)
Magic will surely survive this. Maybe some of you won't, but, to be clear, Magic will probably survive that too. (Believe it or not, so will you.)
Anyone complaining these don't belong in Magic is hanging on way too tightly. Anyone complaining these drive Magic to an unaffordable place probably hasn't been playing Magic very long, tbh.
While I respect other folks' viewpoints and personal taste, I am unconvinced these are some horrible thing that simply should not exist.
Magic will surely survive this. Maybe some of you won't, but, to be clear, Magic will probably survive that too. (Believe it or not, so will you.)
Anyone complaining these don't belong in Magic is hanging on way too tightly. Anyone complaining these drive Magic to an unaffordable place probably hasn't been playing Magic very long, tbh.
While I respect other folks' viewpoints and personal taste, I am unconvinced these are some horrible thing that simply should not exist.
I'm 100% excited for this crossover. Stranger Things might not be your cup of tea, but it's a nostalgic throwback to the 80's. Believe it or not, older millennials like myself also are a demographic with spendable money. It's also got some light horror elements. It's an ongoing mystery and it was designed from the beginning to have a finite run. The creators have a full vision for the show. Also, not to spoil the show, but Will also has some funky stuff going on in terms of supernatural things, and another character later on is a host to evil. It's not that much different than Innistrad, to be honest. Sounds weird mad scientists, horror elements, and monsters. If random humans on Ravnica can be magical, then this is no different. If there are infinite universes in Magic, there is bound to be one more modern that castle, castle, dragon. It's fine and it's supplemental. If you don't like it, don't buy it. The local card shop I play in, a lot of EDH players use proxies and alters with impossibly-endowed anime women on them. I'd much rather play with professionally-made cards depicting Stranger Things characters than sitting across from people with their poorly-stickered or painted waifus. There's no reason to get in a huff about it. You aren't forced to buy it.
I'm 100% excited for this crossover. Stranger Things might not be your cup of tea, but it's a nostalgic throwback to the 80's. Believe it or not, older millennials like myself also are a demographic with spendable money. It's also got some light horror elements. It's an ongoing mystery and it was designed from the beginning to have a finite run. The creators have a full vision for the show. Also, not to spoil the show, but Will also has some funky stuff going on in terms of supernatural things, and another character later on is a host to evil. It's not that much different than Innistrad, to be honest. Sounds weird mad scientists, horror elements, and monsters. If random humans on Ravnica can be magical, then this is no different. If there are infinite universes in Magic, there is bound to be one more modern that castle, castle, dragon. It's fine and it's supplemental. If you don't like it, don't buy it. The local card shop I play in, a lot of EDH players use proxies and alters with impossibly-endowed anime women on them. I'd much rather play with professionally-made cards depicting Stranger Things characters than sitting across from people with their poorly-stickered or painted waifus. There's no reason to get in a huff about it. You aren't forced to buy it.
And even in the case they are "forced" to play, say because they become playable staples of any format, they can still alter-art to anything they wish to their beloved pure fantasy IP. Tournaments allow that.
I'm really glad that someone brought up the fact that P3k and Arabian Nights are sets that ALSO fit this break of UB. I'm a fierce advocate of Rule 0 and while I can kinda see someone getting upset about silver-bordered cards at the table, it irks me that people will actively bar people from using these cards. Yeah, I don't give a flip about your semantics of "I'm not saying that they can't play with them I'm just saying that I'm not going to play with someone that plays them." It's still gatekeeping.
Oh my god, not this gatekeeping argument again. We covered this in the other thread already. Why bring it up again?
You are not entitled to my freetime activities. I can choose who to play with and what to play.
I think the issue many people have just comes down to MtG being a Fantasy card game, by their standards. Now you can certainly make the argument that Magic has strayed away from High Fantasy and has dabbled in steam punk, Historical Fantasy, Folklore Fantasy, a strange caliber of sci-fi fantasy (Kaladesh), and has even included "gunpowder fantasy" (Portal 2), and D&D, while a separate IP, is still a high fantasy setting that compliments what MtG has been all about in the past - but one thing Magic has never done is let the 20th/21st Centuries bleed into the product in the form of Denim Jeans, Cowboy Hats, and Sneakers. And that seems to be what these UB sets - Walking Dead and Stranger Things thus far - have been, and will be, doing. People like to forget about the real world, and it seems like these IPs are extremely grounded in augmenting our own existing day-to-day existence. I think that's what's truly irking everyone. It's what's irking me, but I'm not gonna Gatekeep and refuse to play with people who want to run these cards, I'm just gonna continue to play with my high fantasy-flavored cards.
I think the issue many people have just comes down to MtG being a Fantasy card game, by their standards. Now you can certainly make the argument that Magic has strayed away from High Fantasy and has dabbled in steam punk, Historical Fantasy, Folklore Fantasy, a strange caliber of sci-fi fantasy (Kaladesh), and has even included "gunpowder fantasy" (Portal 2), and D&D, while a separate IP, is still a high fantasy setting that compliments what MtG has been all about in the past - but one thing Magic has never done is let the 20th/21st Centuries bleed into the product in the form of Denim Jeans, Cowboy Hats, and Sneakers. And that seems to be what these UB sets - Walking Dead and Stranger Things thus far - have been, and will be, doing. People like to forget about the real world, and it seems like these IPs are extremely grounded in augmenting our own existing day-to-day existence. I think that's what's truly irking everyone. It's what's irking me, but I'm not gonna Gatekeep and refuse to play with people who want to run these cards, I'm just gonna continue to play with my high fantasy-flavored cards.
People do want a Old Western Cowboy setting too though. That's what I'm getting from what Mark Rosewater's Blogatog.
Well, sure, but I already don't understand the purpose of set boosters
They're for people who want less draft chaff and more playable cards, along with a higher chance of getting multiple rares per pack. Basically for people who crack packs just to get cards (as opposed to drafting with them).
Magic will surely survive this. Maybe some of you won't, but, to be clear, Magic will probably survive that too. (Believe it or not, so will you.)
Anyone complaining these don't belong in Magic is hanging on way too tightly. Anyone complaining these drive Magic to an unaffordable place probably hasn't been playing Magic very long, tbh.
While I respect other folks' viewpoints and personal taste, I am unconvinced these are some horrible thing that simply should not exist.
Well reasoned post. I agree.
I don't mind the UB products myself, it just bothered me that direct MTG content like Kamigawa requires such great feats, but other IPs can just glide into MTG on a silver wave with this product. It feels disingenuous to me as well since I enjoyed, for example, MTG's take on the Greek pantheon despite it not being the actual pantheon. UB could be quite good for the game, I won't dismiss that possibility. Probably a higher chance of that than bad.
I'd just like to see WOTC try to address some of the player requests. Affordable fetchlands shouldn't be harder to come by over time than LOTR cards. That said, I will say WOTC has been performing quite well with meeting requests and expectations, so this isn't a complaint by any means.
You didn't jump the shark, you rode the slippery slope all the way to its improbable conclusion.
Were sales declining so much during the pandemic that they needed cross-cultural crutches to boost popularity or collectability?
To my understanding, sales - and the popularity of Magic in general - have never been higher. You wouldn't know it by reading this message board, but people seem to actually like what WotC is doing.
Good point. Sometimes what internet, forum and social media's report about something -players reactions about WotC decision in this case- is just a vocal minority. And we know, a single tree that fall makes much more noise than a quiet forest.
I would fully undestand all this upset behavior over UB if would actually substract something to the game. Like, for example, less or no more standard or core sets, stopping to develop a lore of the magic story, a real contamination between magic multiverse and other IP worlds.
But no. It will concern the game only in the terms of supplementals set, they will not even affect standard, and their lore is totally separate and still non-existent within in-game real lore. As a Vorthosian myself I'm perfectly cool with it.
This is simply an element that is not substractive, but addictive to the game, and therefore, making in more richer and makes happy anybody that loves their favorite IP portrait officially as magic cards.
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|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Kenessos, Priest of Thassa (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||
I've been happy to support many Secret Lair drops to date, sometimes ordering them in multiples, but this misguided product is a miss, and just makes me want to ask... Why not simply print 'Secret Lair: Eldrazi' instead to bring down the price of Kozilek and friends (something many of us probably want and would be happier with)?
I used to be a demigod, but now I'm an omnimage
To my understanding, sales - and the popularity of Magic in general - have never been higher. You wouldn't know it by reading this message board, but people seem to actually like what WotC is doing.
---
#BLM
#DefundThePolice
That's already what is happening with casual players playing with their custom-made decks made wuth MSE on Cockatrice, no big deal.
Folks doing what they wish in their own free time is definitely not the same as this.
What I can tell you, neither I like Arabian Nights or Portal 3 Kingdom flavor setting, but I simply don't care if people like to play stuff from these sets, gameplay is more important than flavor purism for me, people will get used to it, because seriously is not that of a big deal if not for the maniacal vorthosian purists and thats it.
Its more a thing of how often you see it.
If you can overlook it fine, but if its still annoying it takes away from the game.
As it is, its rare to see Arabian Nights or Portal cards at all and even if, they look like normal magic cards and its not particularly invasive.
If you put silly stuff on cards that changes quickly.
Doing so in a "silver-bordered" environment is perfectly acceptable, as you can more easily make a cut for a format, so people that dont want them can enjoy it without , and others allow them.
As these cards are just legal by default it has a couple of issues it piggybacks on, which are entirely unnecessary and forced.
WUBRG#BlackLotusMatterWUBRG
👮👮👮 #BlueLivesMatter 👮👮👮
But gatekeeping discussion aside, for those naysayers that say that "noone plays cards from Arabian Nights or P3k" I have for you the following list:
Loyal Retainers
Capture of Jingzhou
Strategic Planning
Sun Quan, Lord of Wu
Ambition's Cost
Cao Cao, Lord of Wei
Imperial Seal
Overwhelming Forces
Xiahou Dun, the One-eyed
Burning of Xinye
Imperial Recruiter
Rolling Earthquake
Warrior's Oath
Hua Tuo, Honored Physician
Riding the Dilu Horse
Spoils of Victory
Three Visits
Guardian Beast
Ouellette
Bazaar of Baghdad
City of Brass
Library of Alexandria
If I come across anyone so ignorant as to refuse to play with UB cards, or "ban them" I'll be more than happy to exclude any card originally printed in either Arabian Nights or P3k from being played. Then we can all be unhappy.
This is an interesting argument, if we go by the "near 30 years ago they did this a couple of times" you could use that same argument for giving blue burn again, land destruction or damage prevention.
The game vastly changed since then and those characters and stories are far more linked to mythology than say a particular story and the fact that they gave up on it in lieu of doing their own stories, lore, and mythology along with not trying it for another 20+ years sort of lends some credence in the "this doesn't work" camp.
Of course nowadays crossovers are all the rage and with that especially WotC is definitely introducing some AAA video game industry stuff into the game the past couple of years, and part of that is crossovers among with many other aspects. Some are getting tired of this, just like with superhero movies, zombie iconography, and others that have plagued media for the last decade. Others of course have seen Magic stay more or less pure for two decades now and this does feel like it's cheapening the brand considerably.
Honestly, all of this is eye rolling. Not even a year into UB and we'll have 2 SLs and a core set removed (yay no reprints!) and we still have a full set and commander deck series changed coming up. What became "we might do it again" is now "get used to it f***os, we're making money and we'll kick this dead horse until you can see the Nike symbol on it. Now let's talk about the Mountain Dew Black Lotus." About five years ago this was "nah, we're not gonna do crossovers, it might cheapen Magic" to "you can fight space gods with squirrels, so this makes perfect sense now buy some Spongebob PWs for your Legacy Deck to have a chance at being a pro!"
Between this and the absolute tsunami of product Magic has pumped out the last two years this looks far more like a gacha game lately than the longest running card game in the world. This week is TWD banner, next week is Stranger Things banner, and stay tuned for the eventual power creep we'll shove in with these units/cards that you'll just have to get to stay competitive.
I'll say this, it's stupid to say you wouldn't play with someone with those cards, just like it's stupid to say you don't like people that don't like UB. It's no different than saying "I won't play against turn 1 infinite combo" or a specific format and you wouldn't judge them for not playing a format, would you?
In the end as the crossovers become money makers it is far more likely that Magic will be an IP licensing vehicle more so than it's own thing. Companies don't stop when they make money and Hasbro/WotC see just how much they can make by pushing this out. They'll push it until something makes them stop either no more money coming in or, much like with loot boxes, regulations get thrown in and I don't see either happening any time soon with this.
Before the whole "that's just doom and gloom, don't worry" argument I'll point to the video game industry for just how bad it got and how bad it still is as my example.
Have things gotten so powerful that people forgot about Baneslayer being in a format alongside things like Eugene and what have you?
Companies squeeze out as much money from something if sales are any indication of such. Which is why we haven't been seeing settings like Kamigawa or Ulgrotha as main settings lately since their respective inceptions.
However, I'm sure that if they were to one or both of those two back sales would be wild. (Although you could argue that Innistrad is the lovechild of The Dark and Homelands but I digress).
The consumer base is very fickle; I don't think they even know what they want. A lot of this is driven by emotion. That also holds relevance: What is important to you may not be important to someone else. You don't determine what ought to be "standard" in Magic in terms of how or why things get played/bought. All you can do really is play along and choose to opt out when able. WOTC is easily and undeniably playing into the financial reasons for this. They know people will buy it for the sake of having something in pop culture represented in MTG form.
Tired argument but it holds true. So who knows what will happen.
'buster
P.S: D&D is going to be a super popular set because of its tie in with D&D and that player base. It will probably be one of the best selling sets of all time. Watch.
HR Analyst. Gamer. Activist | Fearless, and forthright | Aggro-control is a mindset.
Elspeth and Jhoira rock my world.
Add to that the cards that will have two versions with different English cardnames courtesy of the Godzilla-experiment.
Although ninjas are experts of camouflage and concealment, they are actually horrible liars. This means that no matter where you are, you can shout out, “Are there any ninjas here?” and if there’s a ninja within earshot, he’ll be compelled to respond.
It is different. One is mechanics and power level, the other is art and card name. Apples and oranges.
Oh, it certainly is.
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#DefundThePolice
Weird thing I know, but, things changes, and not only changes, sometimes reverts too ( * pikachu surprised face meme * )
Alpha Lighting Bolt printed text : "Lightning Bolt deals 3 damage to one target."
Almost every other printing in Magic History till Dominaria : "Lighting Bolt deals 3 damage to target creature or player."
Current Bolt oracle text: "Lightning Bolt deals 3 damage to any target."
Very similar, right? But wait, there's more
Storm, dredge, affinity. For years WotC tought were mechanics so broken that should never appear again, because they are too harmful for the game, conceptually an error to not repeat again. And yet now appears recently in supplemental sets like Commander or Modern Horizon. Or crazy broken stuff like Channel or Tainted Pact being legal in formats like historic!
Time Vault. A card that since the beginning of the game was planned to be broken and that could work with alpha printing Twiddle. For over a decade WotC tought that card should have an errata that couldn't work with any card that could untaps artifacts. Then, they changed their idea again, and decided to give the original intended function, despite being completely broken and making the card spike in price again of thousands of dollars.
Books! Magic lore started with books. Then, for a long while, WotC tought "screw books, our uncharted realms and planeswalker guides articles will be more than enough", and now magic books are returning again.
Core Sets! Core Sets were a part of Magic since the first alpha printing. Then WotC tought "Wait, Core Sets are not a good thing anymore, we don't need them", and didnt use them for years. Turn out they changed their idea again and now Core Sets are again a staple in magic products.
Chaos Warp! Since the beginning, Mark Rosewater said it was a color pie error that should never be supported again, in no way red should be able to get rid of enchantments no matter the drawback. Well guess what, since those words Chaos Warp was printed 14 times, and now thanks to the mystical strixhaven reprint is even legal to the historic format too!
https://scryfall.com/search?as=grid&order=released&q=!"Chaos Warp" include:extras&unique=prints
I could continue forever, but those are all examples that proves the logical fallacy of who think that once Wizard from A turns to B, should never go back A again, because A was an ontological failure while B the illuminated progression. Sometimes this is true, other times it isn't. So it perfectly legit to claim P3K and Arabian Nights as precedents of UB, because now WotC realize that Magic Sets with no Magic IP could, in fact, be good for the game, and not only because in any case gameplay in the end trumps flavor, but that many maigc players enjoy crossovers and flavor familiar with the others IP they love and that most players, except the famous "maniacal vorthosian purists" don't mind to play their Magic IP cards along with Non-Magic IP cards together or against (and I speak as vorthos myself!)
Anyone complaining these don't belong in Magic is hanging on way too tightly. Anyone complaining these drive Magic to an unaffordable place probably hasn't been playing Magic very long, tbh.
While I respect other folks' viewpoints and personal taste, I am unconvinced these are some horrible thing that simply should not exist.
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Wisest words of the entire thread.
And even in the case they are "forced" to play, say because they become playable staples of any format, they can still alter-art to anything they wish to their beloved pure fantasy IP. Tournaments allow that.
Oh my god, not this gatekeeping argument again. We covered this in the other thread already. Why bring it up again?
You are not entitled to my freetime activities. I can choose who to play with and what to play.
GWUBRDraft my Old Border Nostalgia Cube! and/or The Little Pauper Cube That Could!RBUWG
Modern:WDeath & TaxesW | RUGRUG DelverRUG
Magic is what people want it to be, regardless of what others say to the contrary.
The world is an oblate spheroid.
'buster
HR Analyst. Gamer. Activist | Fearless, and forthright | Aggro-control is a mindset.
Elspeth and Jhoira rock my world.
People do want a Old Western Cowboy setting too though. That's what I'm getting from what Mark Rosewater's Blogatog.
They're for people who want less draft chaff and more playable cards, along with a higher chance of getting multiple rares per pack. Basically for people who crack packs just to get cards (as opposed to drafting with them).
I don't mind the UB products myself, it just bothered me that direct MTG content like Kamigawa requires such great feats, but other IPs can just glide into MTG on a silver wave with this product. It feels disingenuous to me as well since I enjoyed, for example, MTG's take on the Greek pantheon despite it not being the actual pantheon. UB could be quite good for the game, I won't dismiss that possibility. Probably a higher chance of that than bad.
I'd just like to see WOTC try to address some of the player requests. Affordable fetchlands shouldn't be harder to come by over time than LOTR cards. That said, I will say WOTC has been performing quite well with meeting requests and expectations, so this isn't a complaint by any means.
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Kenessos, Priest of Thassa (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||
Good point. Sometimes what internet, forum and social media's report about something -players reactions about WotC decision in this case- is just a vocal minority. And we know, a single tree that fall makes much more noise than a quiet forest.
I would fully undestand all this upset behavior over UB if would actually substract something to the game. Like, for example, less or no more standard or core sets, stopping to develop a lore of the magic story, a real contamination between magic multiverse and other IP worlds.
But no. It will concern the game only in the terms of supplementals set, they will not even affect standard, and their lore is totally separate and still non-existent within in-game real lore. As a Vorthosian myself I'm perfectly cool with it.
This is simply an element that is not substractive, but addictive to the game, and therefore, making in more richer and makes happy anybody that loves their favorite IP portrait officially as magic cards.