yeah i agree its the artists fault, i just dont think people should ignore the fact wizards are more and more haphazardly pushing out their products, and not vetting artists is a symptom of that. so is the record number of bannings in the last 4 years.
and in a way, ultimately it IS WOTCs product. if theres plagiarism in it due to their contracting standards, that is on them.
i mean they barely playtest cards anymore, they print half a douzen different versions of any given card now, they change plane every set just so people dont get bored. they throw together makeshift sets like ikoria just from art they have lying around. and unsurprisingly the game is in an almost unplayable state in products like arena.
'its all subjective' is a go-nowhere statement tho. of course it is, everything is. but if you prefer the poorly rendered, washed out modern digital art with its total disregard for color balancing or restraint in detail, over the incredible art that used to be created for this game, then you factually speaking dont have much knoweledge in this area
yeah i agree its the artists fault, i just dont think people should ignore the fact wizards are more and more haphazardly pushing out their products, and not vetting artists is a symptom of that. so is the record number of bannings in the last 4 years.
and in a way, ultimately it IS WOTCs product. if theres plagiarism in it due to their contracting standards, that is on them.
i mean they barely playtest cards anymore, they print half a douzen different versions of any given card now, they change plane every set just so people dont get bored. they throw together makeshift sets like ikoria just from art they have lying around. and unsurprisingly the game is in an almost unplayable state in products like arena.
'its all subjective' is a go-nowhere statement tho. of course it is, everything is. but if you prefer the poorly rendered, washed out modern digital art with its total disregard for color balancing or restraint in detail, over the incredible art that used to be created for this game, then you factually speaking dont have much knoweledge in this area
K, like thats just your opinion man.
While its his fault, vetting and pushing out product have nothing to do with anything here.
At 139 cards deep why would you continue to vet him? You dont like modern card art, or his style, or that card, whatever we get it.
There are plenty of well done, iconic, cards in his repertoire.
He was lazy and got caught, appropriate actions were taken. There isnt some great plot here.
There is no way, or enough time, to research every piece submit versus the entire internet.
yeah i agree its the artists fault, i just dont think people should ignore the fact wizards are more and more haphazardly pushing out their products, and not vetting artists is a symptom of that. so is the record number of bannings in the last 4 years.
and in a way, ultimately it IS WOTCs product. if theres plagiarism in it due to their contracting standards, that is on them.
i mean they barely playtest cards anymore, they print half a douzen different versions of any given card now, they change plane every set just so people dont get bored. they throw together makeshift sets like ikoria just from art they have lying around. and unsurprisingly the game is in an almost unplayable state in products like arena.
'its all subjective' is a go-nowhere statement tho. of course it is, everything is. but if you prefer the poorly rendered, washed out modern digital art with its total disregard for color balancing or restraint in detail, over the incredible art that used to be created for this game, then you factually speaking dont have much knoweledge in this area
K, like thats just your opinion man.
While its his fault, vetting and pushing out product have nothing to do with anything here.
At 139 cards deep why would you continue to vet him? You dont like modern card art, or his style, or that card, whatever we get it.
There are plenty of well done, iconic, cards in his repertoire.
He was lazy and got caught, appropriate actions were taken. There isnt some great plot here.
There is no way, or enough time, to research every piece submit versus the entire internet.
well yeah i guess i cant dispute whether theyre 'iconic'. but 'iconic' doesnt mean 'good' by any means. and yeah i know its my opinion, thats all any of us on here are expressing anyway.
but i do think there is a greater plot here. and its a shame MTG fans arent more united in how they feel about WOTC. sure, wotc get called out often enough by many MTG commentators like the professor, but fans really should be outright boycotting this company by now and demanding change.
people would be better off just designing and printing their own cards at this stage and having their playgroup help adjust and balance them. WOTC takes no care in the health of this game anymore and we should all be able to see that
yeah i agree its the artists fault, i just dont think people should ignore the fact wizards are more and more haphazardly pushing out their products, and not vetting artists is a symptom of that. so is the record number of bannings in the last 4 years.
and in a way, ultimately it IS WOTCs product. if theres plagiarism in it due to their contracting standards, that is on them.
i mean they barely playtest cards anymore, they print half a douzen different versions of any given card now, they change plane every set just so people dont get bored. they throw together makeshift sets like ikoria just from art they have lying around. and unsurprisingly the game is in an almost unplayable state in products like arena.
'its all subjective' is a go-nowhere statement tho. of course it is, everything is. but if you prefer the poorly rendered, washed out modern digital art with its total disregard for color balancing or restraint in detail, over the incredible art that used to be created for this game, then you factually speaking dont have much knoweledge in this area
K, like thats just your opinion man.
While its his fault, vetting and pushing out product have nothing to do with anything here.
At 139 cards deep why would you continue to vet him? You dont like modern card art, or his style, or that card, whatever we get it.
There are plenty of well done, iconic, cards in his repertoire.
He was lazy and got caught, appropriate actions were taken. There isnt some great plot here.
There is no way, or enough time, to research every piece submit versus the entire internet.
well yeah i guess i cant dispute whether theyre 'iconic'. but 'iconic' doesnt mean 'good' by any means. and yeah i know its my opinion, thats all any of us on here are expressing anyway.
but i do think there is a greater plot here. and its a shame MTG fans arent more united in how they feel about WOTC. sure, wotc get called out often enough by many MTG commentators like the professor, but fans really should be outright boycotting this company by now and demanding change.
people would be better off just designing and printing their own cards at this stage and having their playgroup help adjust and balance them. WOTC takes no care in the health of this game anymore and we should all be able to see that
Over this issue?
No.
Over other issues?
Yes.
Youre really making this into something it isnt. Theres a reason theres no major push for that over this.
I agree--I can't be too upset with WotC over this. As was mentioned, they had no reason to believe the artwork wasn't 100% legit, especially with a veteran artist like Felix. I will briefly mention that I AM mildly annoyed that they screwed up the wording on Zaffai, Thunder Conductor, because THAT is something they should've caught, lol.
yeah i agree its the artists fault, i just dont think people should ignore the fact wizards are more and more haphazardly pushing out their products, and not vetting artists is a symptom of that. so is the record number of bannings in the last 4 years.
and in a way, ultimately it IS WOTCs product. if theres plagiarism in it due to their contracting standards, that is on them.
i mean they barely playtest cards anymore, they print half a douzen different versions of any given card now, they change plane every set just so people dont get bored. they throw together makeshift sets like ikoria just from art they have lying around. and unsurprisingly the game is in an almost unplayable state in products like arena.
'its all subjective' is a go-nowhere statement tho. of course it is, everything is. but if you prefer the poorly rendered, washed out modern digital art with its total disregard for color balancing or restraint in detail, over the incredible art that used to be created for this game, then you factually speaking dont have much knoweledge in this area
K, like thats just your opinion man.
While its his fault, vetting and pushing out product have nothing to do with anything here.
At 139 cards deep why would you continue to vet him? You dont like modern card art, or his style, or that card, whatever we get it.
There are plenty of well done, iconic, cards in his repertoire.
He was lazy and got caught, appropriate actions were taken. There isnt some great plot here.
There is no way, or enough time, to research every piece submit versus the entire internet.
well yeah i guess i cant dispute whether theyre 'iconic'. but 'iconic' doesnt mean 'good' by any means. and yeah i know its my opinion, thats all any of us on here are expressing anyway.
but i do think there is a greater plot here. and its a shame MTG fans arent more united in how they feel about WOTC. sure, wotc get called out often enough by many MTG commentators like the professor, but fans really should be outright boycotting this company by now and demanding change.
people would be better off just designing and printing their own cards at this stage and having their playgroup help adjust and balance them. WOTC takes no care in the health of this game anymore and we should all be able to see that
Over this issue?
No.
Over other issues?
Yes.
Youre really making this into something it isnt. Theres a reason theres no major push for that over this.
yes... sigh...
thats exactly my point. MTG players do not care enough about any of these issues, yourself included. your just happy to overlook every screw up the company keeps doing while the larger systemic issue that the company and its products just goddamn suck now.
my point is exactly that if people just pushed back and held them accountable more, they would have to change. instead you just keep on buying their crap. oh well
I agree--I can't be too upset with WotC over this. As was mentioned, they had no reason to believe the artwork wasn't 100% legit, especially with a veteran artist like Felix. I will briefly mention that I AM mildly annoyed that they screwed up the wording on Zaffai, Thunder Conductor, because THAT is something they should've caught, lol.
Yeah, that's definitely an error, as is Hofri Ghostforge saying "your graveyard" rather than "its owner's graveyard". At a guess, this set would have been getting locked down and having editing passes around a year ago, aka right at the start of the pandemic, so I'm not super surprised there were probably some hiccups in the process, and that resulted in a few errors slipping through. I wouldn't be surprised to see a handful more in the next few sets, but hopefully they'll be relatively rare.
The five digit mistake really confirmed it for me, as plagiarism. No five finger discount for the theft of this art! Even without the clear matchup when overlaid, there is sufficient evidence the art was lifted, except where the DeviantArt Watermark hindered that. What really adds insult to injury though, is the fact that this individual evidently has made attempts at becoming a MTG artist, has not been successful when submitting the art legitimately, but their work is valid when plagiarized?
Okay yes, JF clearly made a mistake here and should be held accountable for it 100%. But to categorically start calling him "a bad digital artist all along" is both very reductionist and frankly ignorant. Pieces like Mind Unbound, Herald's Horn, Twisted Reflection and Conjurer's Closet are clear examples that he's not just an amateur artist with a Photoshop crutch. The dude just cut some serious ethical corners on this one and got busted for it.
Okay yes, JF clearly made a mistake here and should be held accountable for it 100%. But to categorically start calling him "a bad digital artist all along" is both very reductionist and frankly ignorant. Pieces like Mind Unbound, Herald's Horn, Twisted Reflection and Conjurer's Closet are clear examples that he's not just an amateur artist with a Photoshop crutch. The dude just cut some serious ethical corners on this one and got busted for it.
I agree. People need to be objective and not react with irrational emotion here. Jason Felix has painted quite a few cards I really love, including some very iconic pieces, such as Hydroid Krasis for example.
Okay yes, JF clearly made a mistake here and should be held accountable for it 100%. But to categorically start calling him "a bad digital artist all along" is both very reductionist and frankly ignorant. Pieces like Mind Unbound, Herald's Horn, Twisted Reflection and Conjurer's Closet are clear examples that he's not just an amateur artist with a Photoshop crutch. The dude just cut some serious ethical corners on this one and got busted for it.
ok this is getting really annoying...
i am 100% serious in telling you, in attempting to inform you, that every piece of art you listed there, is infact amaturish. it may look 'photo realistic'.. thats great.. but guess what? every single artwork you showed is flat out BORING. its unforgettable. do you get that?
no one will ever go "wow you remember that sweet art for HERALDS HORN?".. no. it will not happen.
and its by that metric that this art sucks. capisce? do you understand that? do you get that its not a competition in photo realism?
do you get that if something is boring and uninspired, it doesnt matter how photo realistic it is?
You know what, you're right. What was I thinking? It's abundantly clear that you understand the metrics of judging fantasy art way better than anyone here. Of course, everyone knows that artwork is only great when some amorphous majority deems it memorable. After all, that's what art is all about.
p.s. You probably meant to write "forgettable", but we'll just chock it up to artistic license in prose.
Okay yes, JF clearly made a mistake here and should be held accountable for it 100%. But to categorically start calling him "a bad digital artist all along" is both very reductionist and frankly ignorant. Pieces like Mind Unbound, Herald's Horn, Twisted Reflection and Conjurer's Closet are clear examples that he's not just an amateur artist with a Photoshop crutch. The dude just cut some serious ethical corners on this one and got busted for it.
ok this is getting really annoying...
i am 100% serious in telling you, in attempting to inform you, that every piece of art you listed there, is infact amaturish. it may look 'photo realistic'.. thats great.. but guess what? every single artwork you showed is flat out BORING. its unforgettable. do you get that?
no one will ever go "wow you remember that sweet art for HERALDS HORN?".. no. it will not happen.
and its by that metric that this art sucks. capisce? do you understand that? do you get that its not a competition in photo realism?
do you get that if something is boring and uninspired, it doesnt matter how photo realistic it is?
But what is iconic? Is it only traditional painted artwork, because if it is this very contentious one is included. You're not explaining yourself here.
Also, for anyone else who isn't just foaming at the mouth with artistic expertise, I wanted to point out that there is actually precedent for WotC acknowledging and officially licensing fan art, mostly through contests. A recent example that comes to mind was an Aurelia piece by Justyna Gil, which I actually bought a print of.
yeah i agree its the artists fault, i just dont think people should ignore the fact wizards are more and more haphazardly pushing out their products, and not vetting artists is a symptom of that.
Ok, let's say they start vetting their artists they've had comissioned well over 100 artworks from before.
How do you detect a future plagiarizer if they had not done any plagiarization yet?
'its all subjective' is a go-nowhere statement tho. of course it is, everything is. but if you prefer the poorly rendered, washed out modern digital art with its total disregard for color balancing or restraint in detail, over the incredible art that used to be created for this game
Oh, it's all digital artists who are potential plagiarists?
Now THAT's what I call a take.
Most people who don't create art are content calling digital art terrible and digital artists incompetent hacks, but you go the extra mile and claim they're actually criminals. Wow.
yeah i agree its the artists fault, i just dont think people should ignore the fact wizards are more and more haphazardly pushing out their products, and not vetting artists is a symptom of that. so is the record number of bannings in the last 4 years.
and in a way, ultimately it IS WOTCs product. if theres plagiarism in it due to their contracting standards, that is on them.
i mean they barely playtest cards anymore, they print half a douzen different versions of any given card now, they change plane every set just so people dont get bored. they throw together makeshift sets like ikoria just from art they have lying around. and unsurprisingly the game is in an almost unplayable state in products like arena.
'its all subjective' is a go-nowhere statement tho. of course it is, everything is. but if you prefer the poorly rendered, washed out modern digital art with its total disregard for color balancing or restraint in detail, over the incredible art that used to be created for this game, then you factually speaking dont have much knoweledge in this area
K, like thats just your opinion man.
While its his fault, vetting and pushing out product have nothing to do with anything here.
At 139 cards deep why would you continue to vet him? You dont like modern card art, or his style, or that card, whatever we get it.
There are plenty of well done, iconic, cards in his repertoire.
He was lazy and got caught, appropriate actions were taken. There isnt some great plot here.
There is no way, or enough time, to research every piece submit versus the entire internet.
well yeah i guess i cant dispute whether theyre 'iconic'. but 'iconic' doesnt mean 'good' by any means. and yeah i know its my opinion, thats all any of us on here are expressing anyway.
but i do think there is a greater plot here. and its a shame MTG fans arent more united in how they feel about WOTC. sure, wotc get called out often enough by many MTG commentators like the professor, but fans really should be outright boycotting this company by now and demanding change.
people would be better off just designing and printing their own cards at this stage and having their playgroup help adjust and balance them. WOTC takes no care in the health of this game anymore and we should all be able to see that
Over this issue?
No.
Over other issues?
Yes.
Youre really making this into something it isnt. Theres a reason theres no major push for that over this.
yes... sigh...
thats exactly my point. MTG players do not care enough about any of these issues, yourself included. your just happy to overlook every screw up the company keeps doing while the larger systemic issue that the company and its products just goddamn suck now.
my point is exactly that if people just pushed back and held them accountable more, they would have to change. instead you just keep on buying their crap. oh well
Oh no! An artist stole another artists work and the company he was working for cut ties with him! What horrible reaction from them they should be doing so much more! Thats it everyone quit!
The **** did you want to see happen here?
There is no feasible way to analyze every artists work against the breadth of fan art on the internet without also employing an army of people. An established artist ****ed up. Appropriate actions were taken when the issue was brought to light. What more do you expect?
This issue is much different from any of the others last year involving art and artists.
Typical art elitist attitude that uses singular, local problems as an excuse to go into vague laments about how "people nowadays" just don't understand the value of art anymore.
These "debates" usually go nowhere, as any attempt to point out the value in newer MtG art is met with a blanket "no, it's all bad and you should feel bad for liking it; I'm right because I'm one of the few who still has taste" so I don't really think there's any use in continuing this thread of discussion...
---
Upon looking through the cards Jason Felix has illustrated, I noticed that his style is strangely all over the place though. Maybe it's bias because of this case, but I wouldn't be surprised if it turned out that he "fudged" his stuff in one way or the other before.
Okay yes, JF clearly made a mistake here and should be held accountable for it 100%. But to categorically start calling him "a bad digital artist all along" is both very reductionist and frankly ignorant. Pieces like Mind Unbound, Herald's Horn, Twisted Reflection and Conjurer's Closet are clear examples that he's not just an amateur artist with a Photoshop crutch. The dude just cut some serious ethical corners on this one and got busted for it.
ok this is getting really annoying...
i am 100% serious in telling you, in attempting to inform you, that every piece of art you listed there, is infact amaturish. it may look 'photo realistic'.. thats great.. but guess what? every single artwork you showed is flat out BORING. its unforgettable. do you get that?
no one will ever go "wow you remember that sweet art for HERALDS HORN?".. no. it will not happen.
and its by that metric that this art sucks. capisce? do you understand that? do you get that its not a competition in photo realism?
do you get that if something is boring and uninspired, it doesnt matter how photo realistic it is?
Per your opinion
'buster
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
'buster
HR Analyst. Gamer. Activist | Fearless, and forthright | Aggro-control is a mindset. Elspeth and Jhoira rock my world.
Typical art elitist attitude that uses singular, local problems as an excuse to go into vague laments about how "people nowadays" just don't understand the value of art anymore.
These "debates" usually go nowhere, as any attempt to point out the value in newer MtG art is met with a blanket "no, it's all bad and you should feel bad for liking it; I'm right because I'm one of the few who still has taste" so I don't really think there's any use in continuing this thread of discussion...
---
Upon looking through the cards Jason Felix has illustrated, I noticed that his style is strangely all over the place though. Maybe it's bias because of this case, but I wouldn't be surprised if it turned out that he "fudged" his stuff in one way or the other before.
Now THAT is an interesting take.
Looking at his stuff youre right, it isnt a consistent style. This case does cast doubt on all his other works.
Too bad happenstance is the only real way to discover more incidences of plagiarism here, if there are any.
[...]
Upon looking through the cards Jason Felix has illustrated, I noticed that his style is strangely all over the place though. Maybe it's bias because of this case, but I wouldn't be surprised if it turned out that he "fudged" his stuff in one way or the other before.
Now THAT is an interesting take.
Looking at his stuff youre right, it isnt a consistent style. This case does cast doubt on all his other works.
Too bad happenstance is the only real way to discover more incidences of plagiarism here, if there are any.
That is at least worth looking into - especially since it seems weird for an established artist, to suddenly risk his reputation like that...
Anyway, not much wizards could have (reasonably) done to outright prevent this imo and their response seems appropriate
and in a way, ultimately it IS WOTCs product. if theres plagiarism in it due to their contracting standards, that is on them.
i mean they barely playtest cards anymore, they print half a douzen different versions of any given card now, they change plane every set just so people dont get bored. they throw together makeshift sets like ikoria just from art they have lying around. and unsurprisingly the game is in an almost unplayable state in products like arena.
'its all subjective' is a go-nowhere statement tho. of course it is, everything is. but if you prefer the poorly rendered, washed out modern digital art with its total disregard for color balancing or restraint in detail, over the incredible art that used to be created for this game, then you factually speaking dont have much knoweledge in this area
K, like thats just your opinion man.
While its his fault, vetting and pushing out product have nothing to do with anything here.
At 139 cards deep why would you continue to vet him? You dont like modern card art, or his style, or that card, whatever we get it.
There are plenty of well done, iconic, cards in his repertoire.
He was lazy and got caught, appropriate actions were taken. There isnt some great plot here.
There is no way, or enough time, to research every piece submit versus the entire internet.
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Kenessos, Priest of Thassa (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||
well yeah i guess i cant dispute whether theyre 'iconic'. but 'iconic' doesnt mean 'good' by any means. and yeah i know its my opinion, thats all any of us on here are expressing anyway.
but i do think there is a greater plot here. and its a shame MTG fans arent more united in how they feel about WOTC. sure, wotc get called out often enough by many MTG commentators like the professor, but fans really should be outright boycotting this company by now and demanding change.
people would be better off just designing and printing their own cards at this stage and having their playgroup help adjust and balance them. WOTC takes no care in the health of this game anymore and we should all be able to see that
Over this issue?
No.
Over other issues?
Yes.
Youre really making this into something it isnt. Theres a reason theres no major push for that over this.
yes... sigh...
thats exactly my point. MTG players do not care enough about any of these issues, yourself included. your just happy to overlook every screw up the company keeps doing while the larger systemic issue that the company and its products just goddamn suck now.
my point is exactly that if people just pushed back and held them accountable more, they would have to change. instead you just keep on buying their crap. oh well
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Kenessos, Priest of Thassa (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Kenessos, Priest of Thassa (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||
ok this is getting really annoying...
i am 100% serious in telling you, in attempting to inform you, that every piece of art you listed there, is infact amaturish. it may look 'photo realistic'.. thats great.. but guess what? every single artwork you showed is flat out BORING. its unforgettable. do you get that?
no one will ever go "wow you remember that sweet art for HERALDS HORN?".. no. it will not happen.
and its by that metric that this art sucks. capisce? do you understand that? do you get that its not a competition in photo realism?
do you get that if something is boring and uninspired, it doesnt matter how photo realistic it is?
p.s. You probably meant to write "forgettable", but we'll just chock it up to artistic license in prose.
Ok, let's say they start vetting their artists they've had comissioned well over 100 artworks from before.
How do you detect a future plagiarizer if they had not done any plagiarization yet?
Oh, it's all digital artists who are potential plagiarists?
Now THAT's what I call a take.
Most people who don't create art are content calling digital art terrible and digital artists incompetent hacks, but you go the extra mile and claim they're actually criminals. Wow.
I would love to hear your credentials.
Oh no! An artist stole another artists work and the company he was working for cut ties with him! What horrible reaction from them they should be doing so much more! Thats it everyone quit!
The **** did you want to see happen here?
There is no feasible way to analyze every artists work against the breadth of fan art on the internet without also employing an army of people. An established artist ****ed up. Appropriate actions were taken when the issue was brought to light. What more do you expect?
This issue is much different from any of the others last year involving art and artists.
Be realistic.
These "debates" usually go nowhere, as any attempt to point out the value in newer MtG art is met with a blanket "no, it's all bad and you should feel bad for liking it; I'm right because I'm one of the few who still has taste" so I don't really think there's any use in continuing this thread of discussion...
---
Upon looking through the cards Jason Felix has illustrated, I noticed that his style is strangely all over the place though. Maybe it's bias because of this case, but I wouldn't be surprised if it turned out that he "fudged" his stuff in one way or the other before.
Per your opinion
'buster
HR Analyst. Gamer. Activist | Fearless, and forthright | Aggro-control is a mindset.
Elspeth and Jhoira rock my world.
Now THAT is an interesting take.
Looking at his stuff youre right, it isnt a consistent style. This case does cast doubt on all his other works.
Too bad happenstance is the only real way to discover more incidences of plagiarism here, if there are any.
Well, we agree on that part...
... on this, not so much.
That is at least worth looking into - especially since it seems weird for an established artist, to suddenly risk his reputation like that...
Anyway, not much wizards could have (reasonably) done to outright prevent this imo and their response seems appropriate
W(W/U)U Ephara - Flash & Taxes W(W/U)U || B(B/G)G Meren - Circle of Life B(B/G)G
RGW Marath - Ever shifting Wilds RGW || (U/R)C(W/B) Breya - Artificial Dominion (U/R)C(W/B)
UBR Becket Brass - take what you can, give nothing back UBR
It would be sweet if they printed it with actual art by scarypet. No idea if something like that can be organized fast enough.
Plagiarize? No
Support QAnon and Neo-Nazi views? Yes
You never miss a chance to shill for her huh?
https://twitter.com/Art_JasonFelix/status/1377356835234058243