it means their enjoyment of the game went down a lot because of the external IP, so all the other things magic has going for were out weighted.
It seems like a tantrum really, you drop your enjoyment because one addition to the game, maybe you didn't enjoy the game that much in the first place. Anyway, seems like something deeper going on, I would talk with my therapist for sure.
it means their enjoyment of the game went down a lot because of the external IP, so all the other things magic has going for were out weighted.
It seems like a tantrum really, you drop your enjoyment because one addition to the game, maybe you didn't enjoy the game that much in the first place. Anyway, seems like something deeper going on, I would talk with my therapist for sure.
"People who stop playing a game because they don't enjoy it anymore have mental health issues." is a take I certainly did not expect to read in this thread.
How a commander duel for instance, can be considered a magic game if the commanders are optimus prime and he man? Now picture this: how bad it can be if they start to include real people in this trash. Would you like to see lady gaga as a commander? I can see that happening in the future.
I don't understand this position. These new toys take ABSOLUTELY NOTHING away from existing players. Fun and enjoyment is not a zero-sum game.
This likely did take away products they would otherwise enjoy though, like Planechase or other products, so that may not be necessarily true. I would much rather see parts of the game that haven't been explored, not other franchises I can explore as much as I want outside of the game, from all of it or none at all. If I wanted to play a LotR card game I would have played either of them or go off and play the MMO (Lord of the Rings Online) and there is plenty to digest about 40k, but I choose not to.
This adds something new and nice for crossover fans and fans of the other IPs, attracting new blood to the game (which is an objectively good thing).
Are there fans of strictly crossovers? Like they don't like the two IPs separately but putting together? They enjoy crossovers in general? Also, I don't think this will bring in that much new blood, likely new cash, but not new players when looking at this that would buy less of this product.
As to the comments you're referencing: they're not wrong. Magic's story/universe is absolute garbage compared to the IPs we'll soon be dipping into.
How much of the story do you know? Are you talking recently or throughout Magic's history?
Additionally, the mythos that Magic -does- have is that multiple universes exist and the player/planeswalkers pull creatures and spells through time and space to use them to do battle. Dipping into other IPs is 100% unequivocally exactly what Magic is already about, and arguments to the contrary are disingenuous and misinformed at best.
Well that's incredibly wrong. Mages are not summoning Steven Universe or the Red Ranger from ever Power Rangers season they are summoning beasts/spells from what they know, usually from things they met. Kamahl summoning fire cats during Odyssey block is because he's seen them in some capacity or knows the spell to do so, but he's not calling forth Herby the car or a Shoyru Neopet. They summon within the Magic universe or just their world, this isn't Rick & Morty or every other franchise that just has to have a multiverse right now.
The Commnader precons went down hill around C2020 when they started having cards from Ikoria in the deck, and then subsequently when they only added 1-3 new cards to the commander pool. I understand wotc's reasoning, trying to hook new standard players to commander with similar set mechanics, but it really waters down the already watered down product, it's really a shame.
For me Commander decks were going down since 2018, but over the years the reprints have gotten generally weaker while the cost of the decks have gone up, making them feel less and less worth it over time.
Some of you need to analyze your thoughts about 'HATE' 'Hate' is a strong feeling and word. MLK said 'Let no man pull you low enough to hate him' Hate is what brings evil and breeds *****ty people.
Well this is just a poor argument. "You can't use the word hate because technically...." is nothing that adds to the discussion in any way. Aw man, I can't say I hate stubbing my toe, because it's not the right use of the word. Are you kidding?
Its a freaking card game. People been making 'Fake Cards' of like Superman and Wolverine and Batman for like ..years..HELL , INQUEST MAGAZINE did it themselves back in the day ..they had fake cards printed up in the back of the Magazine for years!! You can search them up and everything.
People have also been making incredibly overpowered fake cards too, so what's your point? You admit they were fake and therefore couldn't be played with in a tournament setting (which these will be) isn't really a point in "WotC should do it" argument.
OH no ..they are making cards with other things on them. Oh well. Be the consumers you know you are if you don't like them ..and not buy them. And if you're playing against them in Commander? Freaking make better decks! Make decks that they don't wanna play against either! Or HECK have some common sense and communicate!
So your argument is if you don't like them playing with them you should play incredibly degenerate decks that win in two turns and make it unfun for everyone?.....What?
Also, isn't what people are doing here talking about this the communicating you are telling people to do?
Some people here are gonna start tweeting Maro and all the people in Magic they can ...and then they'll get blocked and think that because they got blocked or some ***** that its a 'Win'
Yes, there are crazy people in the world no matter what fandom or corner, what's your point again?
Sometimes ...when I was younger I always wondered why us nerds got picked on and beaten up ...the freaking way that some of you have been acting? I can see why there's a bit of that still today.
Didn't you just say people should communicate, but now it should get you beaten? What?
Why are so many people jumping on this slippery slope?
Because there's a lot more wet floor signs on this slope than there was a year ago. First we had The Walking Dead Secret Lair and suddenly we go from that to a core set featuring D&D (I find this somewhat acceptable, though I do not like it), then another entire set (LotR) and a Commander Deck series (40k). Usually slippery slope arguments are bad, but this is literally that very thing happening.
Even the stance of "They did X and I'm afraid they will do Y" is asinine. In a few years after we see how these pan out vs normal magic then if the thought is supported fear that Y will occur is reasonable. But its sheer madness to fear something that they said they aren't going to do when there is no evidence to support the thought that they will do it despite their statement.
Ummm....they never said "we won't do it" and even if they did we are currently seeing them do it right now.
They literally did X (make a crossover of TWD) and I'm afraid they will do Y (more crossovers) is literally happening in front of us. In this case there is a very real slippery slope and we have ignored the "wet floor" signs and slipped down it.
MTG was literally designed off of D&D campaigns and has heavy D&D influence especially in early sets, particularly Legends.Do you not think that perhaps MTG was meant to be a crossover-enabler for fantasy-esque settings?
Being inspired by something does not make a product a crossover. Hot Fuzz isn't a crossover because it was inspired by action movie cliches. D&D isn't a crossover because it was inspired by Lord of the Rings. Magic being inspired by people that played D&D makes it about as much of a crossover as I am a shoe.
Universe Beyond is going to be cool. I already have friends who are into 40k and LotR asking me all about how to play commander.
It's good that they are interested in it, but I do have to wonder how long they will stick around once their favorite IP is no longer in the game. It is possible that they will only be interested in the crossover part and nothing else, but the opposite could happen and their love of the game flourishes.
This is the big question. How many "new players" will stick around when they see these crossovers after they are gone?
it means their enjoyment of the game went down a lot because of the external IP, so all the other things magic has going for were out weighted.
It seems like a tantrum really, you drop your enjoyment because one addition to the game, maybe you didn't enjoy the game that much in the first place. Anyway, seems like something deeper going on, I would talk with my therapist for sure.
So you believe someone not liking their hobby anymore because said hobby no longer matches their interests is a mental disorder that needs therapy? *deep sigh*.......What?
If that's not feeling clear for you, by all means let me know which aspects you need more clarity on.
Typical smarmy MTGS attitude. But I can definitely fight fire with fire too
Anyway, moving on:
Quote from mikeyG »
What I said was that the game took a few sets to really find its footing/identity but that for decades after it had established its identity and set expectations for players. And that identity was independent from IP crossovers (though MtG obviously has pulled considerable inspiration from other IPs/mythologies/pop culture/etc over the years), until recently.
The reason I made that point was to disagree with the assertion that those early days of trial and error when it came to how the game interacts with other IPs/real world concepts can be used to justify Universe Beyond because I feel that is a weak argument. UB isn't less of a big shift for the game because Frankenstein's Monster was a card in 1995. Despite the growing pains of the early days, MtG developed an identity over decades distinctly independent of direct crossover, to the point where the obvious lifts from other IPs don't really feel like they fit in hindsight. That's the basis of my disagreement that early sets like Legends show that MtG was meant for IP crossover like UB, it's a weak and disingenuous line of reasoning. If that's not feeling clear for you, by all means let me know which aspects you need more clarity on.
I'm not against the game expanding, far from it, I just tend to dislike expansions that feel dissonant with the core of the game. And I don't feel IP crossovers fit with that core, certainly others may.
Magic's original concept was two (changed for multiplayer) powerful wizards summoning fantastic beasts and casting a wide array of powerful spells and utilizing tools for domination of the multiverse. It's a basic concept of fantasy that can be applied to any setting, earthbound fiction or otherwise. For additional clarity for you, let me break it down into simpler terms so you can understand:
Magic's first expansion was literally an adaptation of the 1001 Arabian Nights, a real-time event/story that happened 1400-1500 yeara ago. Legends featured characters from the design team's D&D campaigns. Let's also not forget about the rare Middle Ages set that was out at one point, and...
Quote from Djau the Jackal »
If it was a crossover enabler why haven't we had a single crossover set/product since legends? 'Inspired by' is very very different to direct-lifting a character without a name or design change.
...Portal Three Kingdoms which was a direct reference to the Three Kingdoms of China six years later in 1999 with real-world individuals who participated in that specific event in the set's development.
They included fire arms in Portal 2 which, for sake of argument, wasn't really a fit into our setting but doesn't mean it can't be used in some form moving forward. Let's not forget other aspects that were heavily applied to MTG over the years, like equipment, a common theme found in any genre, fiction, or IP, or players using ninjutsu in a feudal Japan setting, or even something as blasphemous as vehicles in Kaladesh among other things.
From what we can all see here, Magic appears to be a platform in which it can be a versatile vehicle (!) that can adapt to any real setting and apply that to its unique structure of gameplay, which seems to be what Dr. Phelddagrif had originally planned both short- and long-term, right? (The latter taking a bit longer to come to fruition in delivery).
The real test will be the Forgotten Realms standard-legal set in the summer, and I'm cautiously optimistic about it, however it's something the game is developing into and if that isn't your cup of tea, then you have every right to withdraw from that. I will agree that if it deviates from the traditional sphere of fantasy and goes into derpy cartoon memes, then yes I will feel frustrated too, however I doubt they'll go that far without complete disenfranchisement of the player base as a whole, and I wouldn't walk away in premature frustration. I should note that UB is not a standard-legal entity, so we can remove that from the list of worries.
We already have a functional crossover of some sorts with P3K; I don't see people table flipping because someone comes to the table with a Cao Cao, Lord of Wei deck at an EDH gathering. (I should also note that The Walking Dead characters don't seem to be making too much of an impact on EDH, with only 71 decks running Rick; 70 for Glenn; 61 for Daryl; and 29 for Michonne. Not too impactful on the format as a whole if you ask me. All it appears to be is a lot of bluster from a stubborn fan base incapable of embracing diverse change).
The core of the game is to expand the experience for whoever decides to participate as much as possible, and to shun someone because they choose to express their Magic experience in a way that's probably vastly different from yours doesn't help the cause.
Quote from Vendilion_Critique »
How a commander duel for instance, can be considered a magic game if the commanders are optimus prime and he man? Now picture this: how bad it can be if they start to include real people in this trash. Would you like to see lady gaga as a commander? I can see that happening in the future.
At least with Lady Gaga you could use a poker face for real and get away with it :thumbsup:. I'm quite sure, from the initial looks of it, the UB will be relegated to fictional worlds and stories and not real-life terrestrial people.
'buster
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'buster
HR Analyst. Gamer. Activist | Fearless, and forthright | Aggro-control is a mindset. Elspeth and Jhoira rock my world.
If that's not feeling clear for you, by all means let me know which aspects you need more clarity on.
Typical smarmy MTGS attitude. But I can definitely fight fire with fire too
Actually, I was being legit because I was surprised and disappointed to see you making such a weak argument and I wanted to help you understand why I disagreed. But if you want to project and then act a fool, that's also typical MTGS behavior.
Magic's original concept was two (changed for multiplayer) powerful wizards summoning fantastic beasts and casting a wide array of powerful spells and utilizing tools for domination of the multiverse. It's a basic concept of fantasy that can be applied to any setting, earthbound fiction or otherwise.
Sure, that's the general conceit, though I still don't believe that means crossovers with other IPs fit the game.
For additional clarity for you, let me break it down into simpler terms so you can understand:
Yikes. Are you okay?
Magic's first expansion was literally an adaptation of the 1001 Arabian Nights, a real-time event/story that happened 1400-1500 yeara ago. Legends featured characters from the design team's D&D campaigns. Let's also not forget about the rare Middle Ages set that was out at one point, and...
I addressed that in my post. I don't feel the trial and error, spaghetti on the wall early days of the game justifies UB anymore than I think having worn black nail polish for a couple months when I was 14 means going full goth now wouldn't be a radical shift. I'd argue that decades of established identity trumps experimentation in the game's beginnings, at its heart that's why UB feels dissonant for a lot of people like the TWD stuff before it.
If that's not feeling clear for you, by all means let me know which aspects you need more clarity on.
Typical smarmy MTGS attitude. But I can definitely fight fire with fire too
You quite literally prefaced your previous comment with "Your points don't make sense." In good faith conversation, I could easily infer that to mean "I don't understand what you're saying" versus the rather antagonistic "your logic and/or communication is bad." As a third party to this conversation, it seemed to me that Mikey was giving you the benefit of the doubt, and offering to provide additional (or more specific) clarity if his follow-up comment still didn't make sense to you for whatever reason.
Why are so many people jumping on this slippery slope?
Because there's a lot more wet floor signs on this slope than there was a year ago. First we had The Walking Dead Secret Lair and suddenly we go from that to a core set featuring D&D (I find this somewhat acceptable, though I do not like it), then another entire set (LotR) and a Commander Deck series (40k). Usually slippery slope arguments are bad, but this is literally that very thing happening.
Even the stance of "They did X and I'm afraid they will do Y" is asinine. In a few years after we see how these pan out vs normal magic then if the thought is supported fear that Y will occur is reasonable. But its sheer madness to fear something that they said they aren't going to do when there is no evidence to support the thought that they will do it despite their statement.
Ummm....they never said "we won't do it" and even if they did we are currently seeing them do it right now.
They literally did X (make a crossover of TWD) and I'm afraid they will do Y (more crossovers) is literally happening in front of us. In this case there is a very real slippery slope and we have ignored the "wet floor" signs and slipped down it.
I don't know why reading comprehension is a rare skill among magic players but that in itself might answer my original question. Y wasn't "Make more crossovers" they literally said they plan to do that. Y was the end of the asinine slippery slope "Magic becomes just a rules engine for various IPs on cardboard(Meaning we don't get actual magic product anymore)" That was the exact thing I quote as being a ridiculous thought for people to have. It's probably people's need for the enemy to be so ridiculously wrong and vile that there isn't a conversation to be had you just get to shout them down for how awful their idea is.
One question I certainly have is what reprintability these will have, at least in original form. Will they get the licenses for that? I don't think they have in other non-Hasbro owned IP, so is it therefore possible that this is their "new way" of printing another slate of Reserves? Even if later cards are allowed to duplicate functionality, if they aren't specifically worded as reskins of these previous products ala Godzilla, do we know how that will work? It's a nuanced worry, but one that I have as these come online. And this doesn't just include issues with the paper product or even Arena, but the larger milieu. If, for example, Gandalf the White or Sauron are planeswalkers as they might be expected to be, then what does that mean in an age of planeswalker focused Magic, i.e. are these now to be part of the continuing pantheon? This could become an issue if they go for a second War of the Spark kind of thing. If you don't have the rights to those planeswalkers, you either have a "hard division" going on between IP worlds or you don't. These are the issues with a shared universe.
If, for example, Gandalf the White or Sauron are planeswalkers as they might be expected to be, then what does that mean in an age of planeswalker focused Magic.
The correct answer is we have to wait and see. Going on gut feeling I had never considered they would take random iconic characters and make them planeswalkers. However, that is a choice. When using another IPs in which there is no parallel for planeswalker they could very arbitrarily decide that certain characters get the planeswalker treatment.
Isn't the entire point of UB that everything in UB is not in their shared universe? Of all the issues people bring up, I think that's one that has been addressed.
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Quote from Conuly »
Heck, every day I wake up, I don't go out and kill people - and I'm rewarded by not having legions of enemies! Amazing how that works.
Although ninjas are experts of camouflage and concealment, they are actually horrible liars. This means that no matter where you are, you can shout out, “Are there any ninjas here?” and if there’s a ninja within earshot, he’ll be compelled to respond.
Magic's first expansion was literally an adaptation of the 1001 Arabian Nights, a real-time event/story that happened 1400-1500 yeara ago. Legends featured characters from the design team's D&D campaigns. Let's also not forget about the rare Middle Ages set that was out at one point, and...
Sorry but if Arabian Nights is such a precedent, why they retconned it to be Rabiah and then put that plane on a 10 in the Rabiah scale, meaning they don't absolutely want to return there?
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How i feel about competitive players and casual players in EDH: The competitive are german tourists, the casual are italian tourists, both in a italian beach. The italians asking themselves "why are the germans here?" make a legitimate question, the answer is because the beach is beautiful, no matter the country you came from. The italians wanting to ban the germans are dumb, because if the germans pay for their stay and follow the rules like everyone else, they have the right to be in the beach. Hovewer, if the germans started to ask themselves "why are the italians here?"... they would be dumb as hell.
Super Smash Bros. was literally made from the start to be a crossover though.
MTG was literally designed off of D&D campaigns and has heavy D&D influence especially in early sets, particularly Legends. Do you not think that perhaps MTG was meant to be a crossover-enabler for fantasy-esque settings?
'buster
No, and this is still a disingenuous take. The fumbling for a cohesive identity of a game in its infancy is not indicative of its identity as it coalesced over decades, which is why a lot of those early sets have direct references that feel out of place in hindsight (though how much that bothers a player is subjective). And this take also conflates influence and homage with expanding the game to include external IPs.
Universe Beyond represents a change for the game, if the TWD Secret Lair was dipping the toe in this is a belly flop. We can all have different responses to it, but let's not pretend this is an organic change in the game or that the game was always meant for it. People can embrace the UB concept without all that.
Your points don't make sense. First you're saying it's bad for the game to expand and evolve, particularly with IPs, yet say it's not right to assume the identity of a game from its infancy. Isn't that what you're doing? "The game shouldn't expand because that's not what it's about yet its original intent shouldn't be the basis for which the game develops and evolves."
Make up your mind man.
'buster
That's not at all what I said. What I said was that the game took a few sets to really find its footing/identity but that for decades after it had established its identity and set expectations for players. And that identity was independent from IP crossovers (though MtG obviously has pulled considerable inspiration from other IPs/mythologies/pop culture/etc over the years), until recently.
The reason I made that point was to disagree with the assertion that those early days of trial and error when it came to how the game interacts with other IPs/real world concepts can be used to justify Universe Beyond because I feel that is a weak argument. UB isn't less of a big shift for the game because Frankenstein's Monster was a card in 1995. Despite the growing pains of the early days, MtG developed an identity over decades distinctly independent of direct crossover, to the point where the obvious lifts from other IPs don't really feel like they fit in hindsight. That's the basis of my disagreement that early sets like Legends show that MtG was meant for IP crossover like UB, it's a weak and disingenuous line of reasoning. If that's not feeling clear for you, by all means let me know which aspects you need more clarity on.
I'm not against the game expanding, far from it, I just tend to dislike expansions that feel dissonant with the core of the game. And I don't feel IP crossovers fit with that core, certainly others may.
Since those early sets, Magic has appeared in: Multiple tactics, strategy and hack n slash video games. A magazine only cross-promotion with Yu-Gi-Oh (A gold card Dark Magician, a 'dragon' 6 star Shivan Dragon monster). Official crossover material for D&D. A series of game books (published by company who produces Queens Blade books). A staff only UFS (now AniVersus) character card. Referenced/parodied in at least two anime. A proposed & developed, ultimately unreleased board game that crossed over with the Monster In My Pocket brand. A crossbrand drinks promotion with World of Warcraft. A white dwarf only army list for Slivers...
These are a handful of examples from around the world, across MTG's history. The only difference is this time those franchies appear in MTG card form. Which is why I find it so amusing that a tiny subset of players who've proudly pushed their IP into the frames of others are now having a major backlash that those same IPs are appearing in theirs. To say that MTG wasn't designed to facilitate crossover's is to literally ignore the patenting documents that force everyone else to pay Hasbro royalties (because most of it's mechanical fundamentals (like tapping a card to show it's used) are properiety).
As for what is original and divergent about lifting a picture of Christoper Lambert from the movie Merlin, making a set about a Magic School with a cross promotion for that other IP (promotion abandoned eleventh hour after other IP frontperson damaged said IP), or, Magic's most iconic villian being copied from an 80's sci-fi show villian. The whole thing was always designed to be a crossover of multiple IP's, it just wasn't considered big enough by the other IPs brand managers to make it a worthwhile investment for them to grant a license to use most of the time (as opposed to Games Workshop's recent scattershot approach of licenses for everyone).
I don't understand this position. These new toys take ABSOLUTELY NOTHING away from existing players. Fun and enjoyment is not a zero-sum game.
This likely did take away products they would otherwise enjoy though, like Planechase or other products, so that may not be necessarily true. I would much rather see parts of the game that haven't been explored, not other franchises I can explore as much as I want outside of the game, from all of it or none at all. If I wanted to play a LotR card game I would have played either of them or go off and play the MMO (Lord of the Rings Online) and there is plenty to digest about 40k, but I choose not to.
But that makes your argument simply: It's ok to deny people product that they want to play with, as long as it's not the product 'I' want to play with.
Also, relatively sure neither of those IP's had a card game that functioned using MTG's system... until now.
This adds something new and nice for crossover fans and fans of the other IPs, attracting new blood to the game (which is an objectively good thing).
Are there fans of strictly crossovers? Like they don't like the two IPs separately but putting together? They enjoy crossovers in general? Also, I don't think this will bring in that much new blood, likely new cash, but not new players when looking at this that would buy less of this product.
That your argument seemed to now imply that if you like two IP's you shouldn't want them to crossover because you can enjoy them apart is folly. If that was the case, people wouldn't be arguing since childhood about which hero/villain/characters are better across franchises, and in my experience across a breadth of media, the biggest causes of failure for established IP's are antagonizing their consumer base and/or purist consumers who bully out those newly interested for not liking 'the right part' of said media (in thie case of this thread, it seems to be obsessive with Dominaria lore, conveniently ignoring the cross-IP references in all the non-Dominaria lore). Cross IP promotion is very rarely stated as a reason for total IP failure.
Additionally, the mythos that Magic -does- have is that multiple universes exist and the player/planeswalkers pull creatures and spells through time and space to use them to do battle. Dipping into other IPs is 100% unequivocally exactly what Magic is already about, and arguments to the contrary are disingenuous and misinformed at best.
Well that's incredibly wrong.
No, it's not. As that's literally how WotC/Hasbro has their copyright filed. That is their literal canonical mechanics, as reiterated as recently as 2020 by marketing materials. You're now at the point of literally sitting telling us how great Magic lore is, and then telling is that the lore of Magic is 100% wrong as compared to your personal headcanon.
Mages are not summoning Steven Universe or the Red Ranger from ever Power Rangers season they are summoning beasts/spells from what they know, usually from things they met.
Then by your own established logic, they must of either 1) Gone to the places of residence of those other entities to meet them (within that IP), or 2) Those things came to the spellcasters residence for them to know of these other entities (within Magic IP). That means, on the weight of your own argument, the game's fundamental core is literally steeped in there being a multiverse of endless possibility.
Kamahl summoning fire cats during Odyssey block is because he's seen them in some capacity or knows the spell to do so, but he's not calling forth Herby the car or a Shoyru Neopet.
Thanks for reminding me, I totally forgot about the Neopets/Kellogs/Hasbro cereal crossover in the UK from when I was a wee one.
They summon within the Magic universe or just their world, this isn't Rick & Morty or every other franchise that just has to have a multiverse right now.
Um, except the word of God says you're wrong, as it's been established since the time of Yawgmoth and Urza that Planeswalkers are indeed summoning across time and space, and the aether fluxx itself is a name for the space between dimensions of existence. The 'planes' and 'aether flux' are themselves copyrighted as a multiverse, with those names being the IP's 'terminological names' for those phenomena. Ironically, they weren't able to establish rights to the concept of 'planeswalkers', as there was multiple IP's that already did that thing for it to become a narrative mainstay.
In essence, planeswalking is exactly like Rick and Morty, which is why the shows creators have even taken jabs at properties such as MTG and narrative devices like The Storyteller's Convention (both in the same episode).
Some of you need to analyze your thoughts about 'HATE' 'Hate' is a strong feeling and word. MLK said 'Let no man pull you low enough to hate him' Hate is what brings evil and breeds *****ty people.
Well this is just a poor argument. "You can't use the word hate because technically...." is nothing that adds to the discussion in any way. Aw man, I can't say I hate stubbing my toe, because it's not the right use of the word. Are you kidding?
You just spent an entire section going off at someone for using words incorrectly (despite them being entirely accurate). That sounds a lot like a case of 'pot, kettle, black' to me...
Its a freaking card game. People been making 'Fake Cards' of like Superman and Wolverine and Batman for like ..years..HELL , INQUEST MAGAZINE did it themselves back in the day ..they had fake cards printed up in the back of the Magazine for years!! You can search them up and everything.
People have also been making incredibly overpowered fake cards too, so what's your point? You admit they were fake and therefore couldn't be played with in a tournament setting (which these will be) isn't really a point in "WotC should do it" argument.
Above bolded by me. That bolded text also indicates you've got no idea how product management and development works, because these products were part commissioned (as was the Commander products, Planechase, Battlebond, Archenemy, Secret Lair, From The Vault and every other ancillary revenue stream) based on observations of what the players were doing. The same logic that Wizards is literally explaining in their articles on the recent TSR set (the timeshifted sheet). At this point, you're literally telling the people who did the work that their wrong about their reasons for doing the work, when they're the only people who can define those reasons. Your argument is becoming more detached from observable fact and straying into trying to impose your feelings (which are clearly strong) in pace of those facts.
Some people here are gonna start tweeting Maro and all the people in Magic they can ...and then they'll get blocked and think that because they got blocked or some ***** that its a 'Win'
Yes, there are crazy people in the world no matter what fandom or corner, what's your point again?
I'm going to put this here because I want to circle back to this later, because as someone who lives with and works with those with mental illness, I find it pretty antagonizing (and disrespectful) the attitudes that are being taken here...
Sometimes ...when I was younger I always wondered why us nerds got picked on and beaten up ...the freaking way that some of you have been acting? I can see why there's a bit of that still today.
Didn't you just say people should communicate, but now it should get you beaten? What?
If you go around screaming in peoples faces in public, insulting them and belittling them, screaming "I was just communicating" when they retaliate will get you zero sympathy for your situation because your actions have repercussions that weasel wording will not always save you from.
MTG was literally designed off of D&D campaigns and has heavy D&D influence especially in early sets, particularly Legends.Do you not think that perhaps MTG was meant to be a crossover-enabler for fantasy-esque settings?
Being inspired by something does not make a product a crossover. Hot Fuzz isn't a crossover because it was inspired by action movie cliches. D&D isn't a crossover because it was inspired by Lord of the Rings. Magic being inspired by people that played D&D makes it about as much of a crossover as I am a shoe.
See above, as when the word of god officially lists it in it's copyrights and trademarks as a mechanical system to facilitate gameplay across multiple IP's (the same filing that has existed from origin to now), that it consistently crosses over with other IP's (self confessing you're ignoring those because you like those IP's doesn't make them less of a crossover), and directly plans crossovers with other IP's (which it's done since it's inception). The ONLY thing Wizards ever made clear wasn't part of the crossover was it's own story canon, which admittely would be terrible if they tried to canonise other IP's into their own. But they've never, not in the history of the games publication, ever said that the mechanical focus can't be crossed over into other games, other IP's or other media.
It seems like a tantrum really, you drop your enjoyment because one addition to the game, maybe you didn't enjoy the game that much in the first place. Anyway, seems like something deeper going on, I would talk with my therapist for sure.
So you believe someone not liking their hobby anymore because said hobby no longer matches their interests is a mental disorder that needs therapy? *deep sigh*.......What?
Sorry, remember that part I brought up earlier I wanted to save for later...
... You don't get to go around using mental illness as a weapon to beat people over the head with, asserting that disagreeing with you is akin to mental illness, and then jump in to accuse those who view with disdain the anger and hatred that people are spewing out as misusing the application of mental illness. I know it's consistent with your side of the arguments 'one rule for us, another rule for everyone else' mentality that drives your sides collective consciousness, but as someone who literally lives with the feeling of reality trying to crush them from existence everyday, seeing anyone bandying around mental illness as a weapon (or ill conceived defense) is appaulling, and that behaviour will drive away new players and destroy the games enduring fandom far quicker than any disagreement over IP crossovers, favourite deck colours or favourite formats ever could.
Argument is fine, tearing someone else apart is fine. Using the mental health of third parties is not.
One question I certainly have is what reprintability these will have, at least in original form. Will they get the licenses for that? I don't think they have in other non-Hasbro owned IP, so is it therefore possible that this is their "new way" of printing another slate of Reserves? Even if later cards are allowed to duplicate functionality, if they aren't specifically worded as reskins of these previous products ala Godzilla, do we know how that will work? It's a nuanced worry, but one that I have as these come online. And this doesn't just include issues with the paper product or even Arena, but the larger milieu. If, for example, Gandalf the White or Sauron are planeswalkers as they might be expected to be, then what does that mean in an age of planeswalker focused Magic, i.e. are these now to be part of the continuing pantheon? This could become an issue if they go for a second War of the Spark kind of thing. If you don't have the rights to those planeswalkers, you either have a "hard division" going on between IP worlds or you don't. These are the issues with a shared universe.
To answer your question re: third party IP's and reprints I'll be deffering to the contracts that the various UFS publishers made over time (including the unreleased staff cards).
When using a third party IP the set itself can only be manufactured and distributed for a set amount of time established within the IP licensing contract. That means, once the contract ends, Wizards can't use the art, names or any references to that IP. For instance, if they had a W40k version of Naturalize with Orcish art, they could reprint Naturalize ad-infinitum, but could not use the Orcish art as it depicts a GW held property. If they made a card that was called, say, The Great Clean One with a new ability Soap Suds and a 40K style frame, they could reuse the soap suds mechanic, and any stats on the card itself, but it's art, name, and anything else 40Kish would be disallowed.
Also, they can, as with TWD cards, make 'functional reprints' any time they want. Using this card as an example, Wizards could reprint this card when the licence deal ends... but they must change the card name, the art, and may not use 'Walker' as a creature token because 'walkers' are a 'terminological' identifier of TWD, and I'm reasonbly sure nobody is stupid enough to go to court and try to make the case that TWD's fans are unfamiliar with that term.
This revives the argument of why doing these as seperate cards has caused debate: a reskinned version of this doesn't replace the original card, it would be playable alongside it, which obviously breaks the spirit of the game in some way (functional 8 copies/2 copies, format depending). Though, nobody seems to care that you could essentially wack 20 copies of Elvish Mystic in a deck using variants. They only seem to care when it's characters, IP's or deck types they don't personally enjoy...
I don't know why reading comprehension is a rare skill among magic players but that in itself might answer my original question. Y wasn't "Make more crossovers" they literally said they plan to do that. Y was the end of the asinine slippery slope "Magic becomes just a rules engine for various IPs on cardboard(Meaning we don't get actual magic product anymore)" That was the exact thing I quote as being a ridiculous thought for people to have. It's probably people's need for the enemy to be so ridiculously wrong and vile that there isn't a conversation to be had you just get to shout them down for how awful their idea is.
I already showed how we are traveling down a slope already and yet you are saying we shouldn't expect to go further down the slope? Weird.
But that makes your argument simply: It's ok to deny people product that they want to play with, as long as it's not the product 'I' want to play with.
Or I was arguing the point that "this doesn't take anything away", which the development time of this could have meant other normal Magic products didn't get developed, making what that poster said false. This isn't a "only product I like", there are a lot I don't like being made (planeswalker decks, theme boosters, collector's boosters, secret lairs), but they are Magic products. I know that I'd much rather have Magic product that focuses on Magic than focusing on other products. I play Magic to play Magic, not to play LotR or 40k, if I wanted to do that there are other avenues for those to other card games to video games to miniatures.
Also, relatively sure neither of those IP's had a card game that functioned using MTG's system... until now.
....And? That's not a reason to put them in the game. Smoking commercials haven't been in the MTG system either, guess based on your logic they should be in the game too.
That your argument seemed to now imply that if you like two IP's you shouldn't want them to crossover because you can enjoy them apart is folly.
Or, and this might sound crazy, that first half was an actual question and not an argument, but why wouldn't you think that?
If that was the case, people wouldn't be arguing since childhood about which hero/villain/characters are better across franchises, and in my experience across a breadth of media, the biggest causes of failure for established IP's are antagonizing their consumer base and/or purist consumers who bully out those newly interested for not liking 'the right part' of said media (in thie case of this thread, it seems to be obsessive with Dominaria lore, conveniently ignoring the cross-IP references in all the non-Dominaria lore). Cross IP promotion is very rarely stated as a reason for total IP failure.
So your argument is "people like to debate about superheroes" is a reason to do this?
Also, you may want to look at the DCEU for a failure to crossover.
While a crossover may not be why something fails it's usually a sign that an IP is dying and they are trying to do anything to bring in an audience of any kind to survive. Television does this plenty, from crossovers to time travel, there are a myriad of examples that show when an IP is starting to fail. To me a crossover, if it is done too often, is an admittance that the IP you are bringing in so many others into cannot stand on its own. Magic has been on pretty shaky ground the last couple of years, constant products, gameplay becoming weaker due to cards being too strong and gameplay not balanced, and more that this is just another problem to add to that list.
You're now at the point of literally sitting telling us how great Magic lore is, and then telling is that the lore of Magic is 100% wrong as compared to your personal headcanon.
I have not said how great Magic lore is, but why read when you can ignore things! I questioned whether that person knew all of it as they said "it's terrible" multiple times in a row with no evidence for their opinion as to why, but hey if you want to jump to conclusions I can get that mat from Office Space.
As for a copyright, I don't care. Magic was not intended for this for well over two decades, there's a reason they stopped doing it. What makes them so sure they can pull it off now and make the game better? I'm sure crickets will sound soon.
Then by your own established logic, they must of either 1) Gone to the places of residence of those other entities to meet them (within that IP), or 2) Those things came to the spellcasters residence for them to know of these other entities (within Magic IP). That means, on the weight of your own argument, the game's fundamental core is literally steeped in there being a multiverse of endless possibility.
All Magic worlds are in the Magic UNIVERSE, it cannot be a multiverse if there's only one. That's literally what multi- means, multiple. An extra world is not another universe, it's another world in THE universe. Just like how Jupiter isn't another universe to Earth. How do you not know that? Dragonball has a multiverse. Power Rangers has a multiverse. Marvel & DC have a multiverse. Magic does not have a multiverse.
They are not traveling to Angel Grove to summon Goldar, they are traveling to Innistrad and summoning a zombie. One is within Magic's own universe, the other had a average at best movie in 2017.
Thanks for reminding me, I totally forgot about the Neopets/Kellogs/Hasbro cereal crossover in the UK from when I was a wee one.
That's a promotion, not a crossover. Pizza Hut didn't "crossover" with Sony in the 90s to give out PS1 demo discs when you ordered a pizza.
Wow, you sent me to the main page of a company. That tells me......nothing. So the "word of god" is nothing?
as it's been established since the time of Yawgmoth and Urza that Planeswalkers are indeed summoning across time and space
Do you have an example of them summoning across time? If they could why would time machines needed to be made?
and the aether fluxx itself is a name for the space between dimensions of existence. The 'planes' and 'aether flux' are themselves copyrighted as a multiverse, with those names being the IP's 'terminological names' for those phenomena.
Looking that up on google and MTG wiki gives me nothing for what this is outside of Aetherflux Reservoir, what is this?
In essence, planeswalking is exactly like Rick and Morty, which is why the shows creators have even taken jabs at properties such as MTG and narrative devices like The Storyteller's Convention (both in the same episode).
Yeah, you're right, cause they're the same thing. Garruk is able to walk through time and different universes, yep, happens every block. No, they go to different worlds and that's the only thing in common. One thing in common does not make it exactly. Magic doesn't cause people to rush McDonald's screaming for BBQ sauce and cause them to flop on the floor screaming "REEEEEEE I'M PICKLE RICK" (in this case the REEE is actually correct for what happened in that famous video.)
That episode in no way was a jab at MTG, it was an episode where they came up with random jokes that they couldn't fit into an episode and then created the multiverse tv as a framing device to allow them to do so. It wasn't making fun of anything in particular, just a bunch of random jokes.
Also, world walking has been a thing in literature/media long before Magic and Rick & Morty, it's nothing new.
You just spent an entire section going off at someone for using words incorrectly (despite them being entirely accurate). That sounds a lot like a case of 'pot, kettle, black' to me...
Because telling someone you can't use the word hate (definition - feel intense or passionate dislike) is wrong as it is being used correctly by those who hate this announcement. It's not my fault when people use words incorrectly. Would you like to try again, but this time do it better?
Your argument is becoming more detached from observable fact and straying into trying to impose your feelings (which are clearly strong) in pace of those facts.
What's your argument here again? The poster I replied to stated that because a magazine did a thing and made a fake card that means that it's okay for other fake cards to be used. You're right, we should let the 1 cmc "You win the game" card in play. It only makes sense.
If you go around screaming in peoples faces in public, insulting them and belittling them, screaming "I was just communicating" when they retaliate will get you zero sympathy for your situation because your actions have repercussions that weasel wording will not always save you from.
No one is screaming in people's faces here, insulting and belittling are being done by multiple people from both sides of the like/dislike aisle, you for example are doing the same thing. Not sure where you are going with this, people get passionate and conversations happen. That poster wanted people to communicate, but then hated it when people were....communicating. That's literally hypocrisy on their part.
See above, as when the word of god officially lists it in it's copyrights and trademarks as a mechanical system to facilitate gameplay across multiple IP's (the same filing that has existed from origin to now), that it consistently crosses over with other IP's (self confessing you're ignoring those because you like those IP's doesn't make them less of a crossover), and directly plans crossovers with other IP's (which it's done since it's inception).
Wow....that literally had nothing to do with my argument or the argument the poster I replied to was making which was what is a crossover or not, in their example they believe being inspired by something automatically makes the thing brought about by inspiration a crossover, which it is not, but I'm glad you could post a bunch of nonsense that had zero to do with any of the points being made in that quote block. Good job.
It seems like a tantrum really, you drop your enjoyment because one addition to the game, maybe you didn't enjoy the game that much in the first place. Anyway, seems like something deeper going on, I would talk with my therapist for sure.
So you believe someone not liking their hobby anymore because said hobby no longer matches their interests is a mental disorder that needs therapy? *deep sigh*.......What?
Sorry, remember that part I brought up earlier I wanted to save for later...
... You don't get to go around using mental illness as a weapon to beat people over the head with, asserting that disagreeing with you is akin to mental illness, and then jump in to accuse those who view with disdain the anger and hatred that people are spewing out as misusing the application of mental illness.
Ummm....what?! When was I using mental illness as a weapon? What in the blue ever loving echi double hockey sticks is this?
I know it's consistent with your side of the arguments 'one rule for us, another rule for everyone else' mentality that drives your sides collective consciousness, but as someone who literally lives with the feeling of reality trying to crush them from existence everyday, seeing anyone bandying around mental illness as a weapon (or ill conceived defense) is appaulling, and that behaviour will drive away new players and destroy the games enduring fandom far quicker than any disagreement over IP crossovers, favourite deck colours or favourite formats ever could.
Argument is fine, tearing someone else apart is fine. Using the mental health of third parties is not.
No, seriously, WHAT?! What rules am I imposing for others but not following? I'm having some real trouble trying to not get banned for spitting out obscenities, how was I doing any of that? The poster I replied to said it was a mental condition and I was questioning it.
Also, they can, as with TWD cards, make 'functional reprints' any time they want. Using this card as an example, Wizards could reprint this card when the licence deal ends... but they must change the card name, the art, and may not use 'Walker' as a creature token because 'walkers' are a 'terminological' identifier of TWD, and I'm reasonbly sure nobody is stupid enough to go to court and try to make the case that TWD's fans are unfamiliar with that term.
One issue with the functional reprints is when you get to the scale of the 40kommander decks and LotR set is that we could be seeing the potential of 300+ cards strictly with those IPs on them. That's a lot of functional reprints. They may also never be able to Godzilla skin those cards as they would still need Gandalf below the "other name" of the card and that then would accrue some sort of cost. I also have to wonder if this would be an issue on streamed tournaments when WotC shows someone playing Gandalf in a Legacy game or on Arena if any of these cards go to Historic. will we see those cards banned so WotC doesn't have to keep shelling out money to show those licenses?
I don't particularly look forward to seeing a "Functional reprint set" with the tag line of "Now with proper Magic art and text."
TWD had the issue where we couldn't see the proper name of the cards beneath the TWD names, currently there is no promise of a "real" version of those cards because WotC didn't think that far ahead.
Since those early sets, Magic has appeared in: Multiple tactics, strategy and hack n slash video games. A magazine only cross-promotion with Yu-Gi-Oh (A gold card Dark Magician, a 'dragon' 6 star Shivan Dragon monster). Official crossover material for D&D. A series of game books (published by company who produces Queens Blade books). A staff only UFS (now AniVersus) character card. Referenced/parodied in at least two anime. A proposed & developed, ultimately unreleased board game that crossed over with the Monster In My Pocket brand. A crossbrand drinks promotion with World of Warcraft. A white dwarf only army list for Slivers...
These are a handful of examples from around the world, across MTG's history. The only difference is this time those franchies appear in MTG card form. Which is why I find it so amusing that a tiny subset of players who've proudly pushed their IP into the frames of others are now having a major backlash that those same IPs are appearing in theirs. To say that MTG wasn't designed to facilitate crossover's is to literally ignore the patenting documents that force everyone else to pay Hasbro royalties (because most of it's mechanical fundamentals (like tapping a card to show it's used) are properiety).
The thing is that direction is important you wouldn't call Persona or Metroid or Minecraft Games that were designed to facilitate crossovers just because they appear in Smash bros which is however a game which is desinged to do that. Furthermore most if not all of those crossovers happened not from the hasbro side asking but the crossover side asking to basically do the thing many in here accuse wizards of doing with this, a quick cash grab. Also the size of the crossovers were in most cases hold to a minimum to you know have the other IP keep it's Identity.
That's why I personally wouldn't mind a silver bordered crossover set for example that way you can use the game system but keeping the crossover distinct but still playable for those that like these, albeit as an opt-in rather than an opt-out.
Since those early sets, Magic has appeared in: Multiple tactics, strategy and hack n slash video games. A magazine only cross-promotion with Yu-Gi-Oh (A gold card Dark Magician, a 'dragon' 6 star Shivan Dragon monster). Official crossover material for D&D. A series of game books (published by company who produces Queens Blade books). A staff only UFS (now AniVersus) character card. Referenced/parodied in at least two anime. A proposed & developed, ultimately unreleased board game that crossed over with the Monster In My Pocket brand. A crossbrand drinks promotion with World of Warcraft. A white dwarf only army list for Slivers...
These are a handful of examples from around the world, across MTG's history. The only difference is this time those franchies appear in MTG card form.
I can't say that I'm particularly moved by the argument "MtG concepts/likenesses/settings have been used in promos of other IPs, so this is fine" because I don't play those games and never heard of the promos you're talking about. They aren't a part of my MtG experience and they have nothing to do with how I view the game. I have been involved with MtG in some form or another since 1998 and my perspective on what the game is was shaped by almost a quarter century of MtG cards, not cynical promotional stuff that exists outside the game.
It is like FF7. I don't particularly love that game, but it's fine enough and it's a good example of what I'm trying to express so let's just pretend I love that game. Cloud has appeared in a lot of other IPs, none of which I play, to me that is just tacky marketing from Square that I can and do safely ignore because they exist outside and apart from the game of FF7 that I enjoy. But if the Kingdom Hearts gang showed up in FF7 Remake Part Two, it would surely compromise my perception of the game.
Which is why I find it so amusing that a tiny subset of players who've proudly pushed their IP into the frames of others are now having a major backlash that those same IPs are appearing in theirs.
We did what now? What makes you think I'm proud that WotC pushed their IP elsewhere to market MtG and/or make a quick buck? At best, I accept that it's a thing WotC will do in their strategy to keep the market for the game healthy.
As well, since we're expressing what we're amused by, I'm amused by how posters here are characterizing the attitudes and behaviors of those who aren't liking the Universe Beyond concept. It's all getting the clickbait title treatment, overstating responses and emotionality to frame arguments and posters in a way that's easier to argue against or paint as dismissible. I'm not experiencing a major backlash, UB is a thing that doesn't vibe with my experience of the game, I'm unlikely to engage with it and I doubt I'll ever experience much if any of it so this isn't really a big deal to me. I just find the debate here fascinating and truth be told, I've got pandemic boredom amid chronic work stress and every cat benefits from a scratching post.
To say that MTG wasn't designed to facilitate crossover's is to literally ignore the patenting documents that force everyone else to pay Hasbro royalties (because most of it's mechanical fundamentals (like tapping a card to show it's used) are properiety).
What player constructs their perception of the game on patent documents?
As for what is original and divergent about lifting a picture of Christoper Lambert from the movie Merlin, making a set about a Magic School with a cross promotion for that other IP (promotion abandoned eleventh hour after other IP frontperson damaged said IP), or, Magic's most iconic villian being copied from an 80's sci-fi show villian. The whole thing was always designed to be a crossover of multiple IP's, it just wasn't considered big enough by the other IPs brand managers to make it a worthwhile investment for them to grant a license to use most of the time (as opposed to Games Workshop's recent scattershot approach of licenses for everyone).
Homage/Influence/Parody =/= Crossover
This is why the events of The Avengers XXX: A Porn Parody are not canon in the Marvel Cinematic Universe. A little more seriously, though, there's a reason aspects of MtG being influenced by or homages to other works does not feel out of place where UB does. It's adaptation versus transplantation, and honestly it's been surreal for me to see so many posters not get that. To give credit to Tiro, he analogized the point well by saying the Theros gods might as well have been the actual Greek gods by the logic that homage/influence and crossovers are interchangeable.
Perhaps you're right, though, that MtG was always intended not to be a game of its own with its own independent identity but instead a multi-IP platform of crossovers only delayed by MtG not being big enough. But at the end of the day, that hasn't been my experience with the game for almost a quarter century and I don't intend for it to be part of my experience going forward.
Perhaps you're right, though, that MtG was always intended not to be a game of its own with its own independent identity but instead a multi-IP platform of crossovers only delayed by MtG not being big enough. But at the end of the day, that hasn't been my experience with the game for almost a quarter century and I don't intend for it to be part of my experience going forward.
This is a big one, if it was meant to be then where has it been before now? Sure, you had a few cards here and there, usually illegal tournament cards, nothing that really anyone could care about too much, but here within about 1 1/2 years we have 4 different IPs coming into the game in one big way or another. D&D is one thing (though I'm not the biggest fan of), but the others are a bit jarring, to say the least.
I'm fully against this move (though all our bluster is just wind on the rocks). It significantly cheapens the game aesthetically and thematically, whether or not you have any real investment in the MtG story (which I frankly don't). It dilutes the card pool with things that are thematically and aesthetically alien, and the longer it goes, the less the game feels like what it always has.
I'm also musing about the earliest MtG crossovers. Who can forget classic characters like Sindbad and Ali Baba? Have vintage players ever complained that Jace, the Mind Sculptor hangs out in a Bazaar of Baghdad? Oh, you're Chandra from Kaladesh? I'm Ali from Cairo. I'm currently reading the Thousand and One Nights (truly massive by the way, makes Homer's stories look like Cat in the Hat), so I can't help but be amused-- MtG did a crossover before it even did its own lore.
Lady Gaga can't be your commander yet, but Cao Cao can. (That's pronounced Tsao Tsao, by the way. The Pinyin system for Chinese spelling is stupid.) Your Humble Budoka can consult with a Taoist Mystic when his heart is troubled.
But I'm just playing devil's advocate. I hate this change. If only a small number of crossover cards exist (as do now), you can easily ignore them. The more that come out, the more of a hodgepodge the game becomes.
My argument is thus: make IP crossover cards BLUE BORDER CARDS!!!
Additionally, the mythos that Magic -does- have is that multiple universes exist and the player/planeswalkers pull creatures and spells through time and space to use them to do battle. Dipping into other IPs is 100% unequivocally exactly what Magic is already about, and arguments to the contrary are disingenuous and misinformed at best.
Well that's incredibly wrong.
No, it's not. As that's literally how WotC/Hasbro has their copyright filed. That is their literal canonical mechanics, as reiterated as recently as 2020 by marketing materials. You're now at the point of literally sitting telling us how great Magic lore is, and then telling is that the lore of Magic is 100% wrong as compared to your personal headcanon.
This one killed me. On a crusade to defend the honor of Magic's lore, and literally knows so little about Magic's lore that he winds up attacking it himself. I'M DEAD.
All Magic worlds are in the Magic UNIVERSE, it cannot be a multiverse if there's only one. That's literally what multi- means, multiple. An extra world is not another universe, it's another world in THE universe. Just like how Jupiter isn't another universe to Earth. How do you not know that? Dragonball has a multiverse. Power Rangers has a multiverse. Marvel & DC have a multiverse. Magic does not have a multiverse.
I might be misunderstanding you here, and if that's the case I apologize, but Magic does have a multiverse. Earth and Jupiter are different worlds in the same universe, like how Innistrad and its moon are in the same universe. But Innistrad and Zendikar aren't in the same universe in that same respect. They're different planes within Magic's Multiverse.
it means their enjoyment of the game went down a lot because of the external IP, so all the other things magic has going for were out weighted.
It seems like a tantrum really, you drop your enjoyment because one addition to the game, maybe you didn't enjoy the game that much in the first place. Anyway, seems like something deeper going on, I would talk with my therapist for sure.
"People who stop playing a game because they don't enjoy it anymore have mental health issues." is a take I certainly did not expect to read in this thread.
This likely did take away products they would otherwise enjoy though, like Planechase or other products, so that may not be necessarily true. I would much rather see parts of the game that haven't been explored, not other franchises I can explore as much as I want outside of the game, from all of it or none at all. If I wanted to play a LotR card game I would have played either of them or go off and play the MMO (Lord of the Rings Online) and there is plenty to digest about 40k, but I choose not to.
Are there fans of strictly crossovers? Like they don't like the two IPs separately but putting together? They enjoy crossovers in general? Also, I don't think this will bring in that much new blood, likely new cash, but not new players when looking at this that would buy less of this product.
How much of the story do you know? Are you talking recently or throughout Magic's history?
Well that's incredibly wrong. Mages are not summoning Steven Universe or the Red Ranger from ever Power Rangers season they are summoning beasts/spells from what they know, usually from things they met. Kamahl summoning fire cats during Odyssey block is because he's seen them in some capacity or knows the spell to do so, but he's not calling forth Herby the car or a Shoyru Neopet. They summon within the Magic universe or just their world, this isn't Rick & Morty or every other franchise that just has to have a multiverse right now.
For me Commander decks were going down since 2018, but over the years the reprints have gotten generally weaker while the cost of the decks have gone up, making them feel less and less worth it over time.
Well this is just a poor argument. "You can't use the word hate because technically...." is nothing that adds to the discussion in any way. Aw man, I can't say I hate stubbing my toe, because it's not the right use of the word. Are you kidding?
People have also been making incredibly overpowered fake cards too, so what's your point? You admit they were fake and therefore couldn't be played with in a tournament setting (which these will be) isn't really a point in "WotC should do it" argument.
So your argument is if you don't like them playing with them you should play incredibly degenerate decks that win in two turns and make it unfun for everyone?.....What?
Also, isn't what people are doing here talking about this the communicating you are telling people to do?
Yes, there are crazy people in the world no matter what fandom or corner, what's your point again?
Didn't you just say people should communicate, but now it should get you beaten? What?
Because there's a lot more wet floor signs on this slope than there was a year ago. First we had The Walking Dead Secret Lair and suddenly we go from that to a core set featuring D&D (I find this somewhat acceptable, though I do not like it), then another entire set (LotR) and a Commander Deck series (40k). Usually slippery slope arguments are bad, but this is literally that very thing happening.
Ummm....they never said "we won't do it" and even if they did we are currently seeing them do it right now.
They literally did X (make a crossover of TWD) and I'm afraid they will do Y (more crossovers) is literally happening in front of us. In this case there is a very real slippery slope and we have ignored the "wet floor" signs and slipped down it.
Being inspired by something does not make a product a crossover. Hot Fuzz isn't a crossover because it was inspired by action movie cliches. D&D isn't a crossover because it was inspired by Lord of the Rings. Magic being inspired by people that played D&D makes it about as much of a crossover as I am a shoe.
It's good that they are interested in it, but I do have to wonder how long they will stick around once their favorite IP is no longer in the game. It is possible that they will only be interested in the crossover part and nothing else, but the opposite could happen and their love of the game flourishes.
This is the big question. How many "new players" will stick around when they see these crossovers after they are gone?
So you believe someone not liking their hobby anymore because said hobby no longer matches their interests is a mental disorder that needs therapy? *deep sigh*.......What?
You sure about that?
Typical smarmy MTGS attitude. But I can definitely fight fire with fire too
Anyway, moving on:
Magic's original concept was two (changed for multiplayer) powerful wizards summoning fantastic beasts and casting a wide array of powerful spells and utilizing tools for domination of the multiverse. It's a basic concept of fantasy that can be applied to any setting, earthbound fiction or otherwise. For additional clarity for you, let me break it down into simpler terms so you can understand:
Magic's first expansion was literally an adaptation of the 1001 Arabian Nights, a real-time event/story that happened 1400-1500 yeara ago. Legends featured characters from the design team's D&D campaigns. Let's also not forget about the rare Middle Ages set that was out at one point, and...
...Portal Three Kingdoms which was a direct reference to the Three Kingdoms of China six years later in 1999 with real-world individuals who participated in that specific event in the set's development.
They included fire arms in Portal 2 which, for sake of argument, wasn't really a fit into our setting but doesn't mean it can't be used in some form moving forward. Let's not forget other aspects that were heavily applied to MTG over the years, like equipment, a common theme found in any genre, fiction, or IP, or players using ninjutsu in a feudal Japan setting, or even something as blasphemous as vehicles in Kaladesh among other things.
From what we can all see here, Magic appears to be a platform in which it can be a versatile vehicle (!) that can adapt to any real setting and apply that to its unique structure of gameplay, which seems to be what Dr. Phelddagrif had originally planned both short- and long-term, right? (The latter taking a bit longer to come to fruition in delivery).
The real test will be the Forgotten Realms standard-legal set in the summer, and I'm cautiously optimistic about it, however it's something the game is developing into and if that isn't your cup of tea, then you have every right to withdraw from that. I will agree that if it deviates from the traditional sphere of fantasy and goes into derpy cartoon memes, then yes I will feel frustrated too, however I doubt they'll go that far without complete disenfranchisement of the player base as a whole, and I wouldn't walk away in premature frustration. I should note that UB is not a standard-legal entity, so we can remove that from the list of worries.
We already have a functional crossover of some sorts with P3K; I don't see people table flipping because someone comes to the table with a Cao Cao, Lord of Wei deck at an EDH gathering. (I should also note that The Walking Dead characters don't seem to be making too much of an impact on EDH, with only 71 decks running Rick; 70 for Glenn; 61 for Daryl; and 29 for Michonne. Not too impactful on the format as a whole if you ask me. All it appears to be is a lot of bluster from a stubborn fan base incapable of embracing diverse change).
The core of the game is to expand the experience for whoever decides to participate as much as possible, and to shun someone because they choose to express their Magic experience in a way that's probably vastly different from yours doesn't help the cause.
At least with Lady Gaga you could use a poker face for real and get away with it :thumbsup:. I'm quite sure, from the initial looks of it, the UB will be relegated to fictional worlds and stories and not real-life terrestrial people.
'buster
HR Analyst. Gamer. Activist | Fearless, and forthright | Aggro-control is a mindset.
Elspeth and Jhoira rock my world.
Actually, I was being legit because I was surprised and disappointed to see you making such a weak argument and I wanted to help you understand why I disagreed. But if you want to project and then act a fool, that's also typical MTGS behavior.
Sure, that's the general conceit, though I still don't believe that means crossovers with other IPs fit the game.
Yikes. Are you okay?
I addressed that in my post. I don't feel the trial and error, spaghetti on the wall early days of the game justifies UB anymore than I think having worn black nail polish for a couple months when I was 14 means going full goth now wouldn't be a radical shift. I'd argue that decades of established identity trumps experimentation in the game's beginnings, at its heart that's why UB feels dissonant for a lot of people like the TWD stuff before it.
Archatmos
Excellion
Fracture: Israfiel (WBR), Wujal (URG), Valedon (GUB), Amduat (BGW), Paladris (RWU)
Collision (Set Two of the Fracture Block)
Quest for the Forsaken (Set Two of the Excellion Block)
Katingal: Plane of Chains
Quite positive, yes.
You quite literally prefaced your previous comment with "Your points don't make sense." In good faith conversation, I could easily infer that to mean "I don't understand what you're saying" versus the rather antagonistic "your logic and/or communication is bad." As a third party to this conversation, it seemed to me that Mikey was giving you the benefit of the doubt, and offering to provide additional (or more specific) clarity if his follow-up comment still didn't make sense to you for whatever reason.
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#BLM
#DefundThePolice
Isn't the entire point of UB that everything in UB is not in their shared universe? Of all the issues people bring up, I think that's one that has been addressed.
Although ninjas are experts of camouflage and concealment, they are actually horrible liars. This means that no matter where you are, you can shout out, “Are there any ninjas here?” and if there’s a ninja within earshot, he’ll be compelled to respond.
Sorry but if Arabian Nights is such a precedent, why they retconned it to be Rabiah and then put that plane on a 10 in the Rabiah scale, meaning they don't absolutely want to return there?
Since those early sets, Magic has appeared in: Multiple tactics, strategy and hack n slash video games. A magazine only cross-promotion with Yu-Gi-Oh (A gold card Dark Magician, a 'dragon' 6 star Shivan Dragon monster). Official crossover material for D&D. A series of game books (published by company who produces Queens Blade books). A staff only UFS (now AniVersus) character card. Referenced/parodied in at least two anime. A proposed & developed, ultimately unreleased board game that crossed over with the Monster In My Pocket brand. A crossbrand drinks promotion with World of Warcraft. A white dwarf only army list for Slivers...
These are a handful of examples from around the world, across MTG's history. The only difference is this time those franchies appear in MTG card form. Which is why I find it so amusing that a tiny subset of players who've proudly pushed their IP into the frames of others are now having a major backlash that those same IPs are appearing in theirs. To say that MTG wasn't designed to facilitate crossover's is to literally ignore the patenting documents that force everyone else to pay Hasbro royalties (because most of it's mechanical fundamentals (like tapping a card to show it's used) are properiety).
As for what is original and divergent about lifting a picture of Christoper Lambert from the movie Merlin, making a set about a Magic School with a cross promotion for that other IP (promotion abandoned eleventh hour after other IP frontperson damaged said IP), or, Magic's most iconic villian being copied from an 80's sci-fi show villian. The whole thing was always designed to be a crossover of multiple IP's, it just wasn't considered big enough by the other IPs brand managers to make it a worthwhile investment for them to grant a license to use most of the time (as opposed to Games Workshop's recent scattershot approach of licenses for everyone).
But that makes your argument simply: It's ok to deny people product that they want to play with, as long as it's not the product 'I' want to play with.
Also, relatively sure neither of those IP's had a card game that functioned using MTG's system... until now.
That your argument seemed to now imply that if you like two IP's you shouldn't want them to crossover because you can enjoy them apart is folly. If that was the case, people wouldn't be arguing since childhood about which hero/villain/characters are better across franchises, and in my experience across a breadth of media, the biggest causes of failure for established IP's are antagonizing their consumer base and/or purist consumers who bully out those newly interested for not liking 'the right part' of said media (in thie case of this thread, it seems to be obsessive with Dominaria lore, conveniently ignoring the cross-IP references in all the non-Dominaria lore). Cross IP promotion is very rarely stated as a reason for total IP failure.
No, it's not. As that's literally how WotC/Hasbro has their copyright filed. That is their literal canonical mechanics, as reiterated as recently as 2020 by marketing materials. You're now at the point of literally sitting telling us how great Magic lore is, and then telling is that the lore of Magic is 100% wrong as compared to your personal headcanon.
Then by your own established logic, they must of either 1) Gone to the places of residence of those other entities to meet them (within that IP), or 2) Those things came to the spellcasters residence for them to know of these other entities (within Magic IP). That means, on the weight of your own argument, the game's fundamental core is literally steeped in there being a multiverse of endless possibility.
Thanks for reminding me, I totally forgot about the Neopets/Kellogs/Hasbro cereal crossover in the UK from when I was a wee one.
Um, except the word of God says you're wrong, as it's been established since the time of Yawgmoth and Urza that Planeswalkers are indeed summoning across time and space, and the aether fluxx itself is a name for the space between dimensions of existence. The 'planes' and 'aether flux' are themselves copyrighted as a multiverse, with those names being the IP's 'terminological names' for those phenomena. Ironically, they weren't able to establish rights to the concept of 'planeswalkers', as there was multiple IP's that already did that thing for it to become a narrative mainstay.
In essence, planeswalking is exactly like Rick and Morty, which is why the shows creators have even taken jabs at properties such as MTG and narrative devices like The Storyteller's Convention (both in the same episode).
You just spent an entire section going off at someone for using words incorrectly (despite them being entirely accurate). That sounds a lot like a case of 'pot, kettle, black' to me...
Above bolded by me. That bolded text also indicates you've got no idea how product management and development works, because these products were part commissioned (as was the Commander products, Planechase, Battlebond, Archenemy, Secret Lair, From The Vault and every other ancillary revenue stream) based on observations of what the players were doing. The same logic that Wizards is literally explaining in their articles on the recent TSR set (the timeshifted sheet). At this point, you're literally telling the people who did the work that their wrong about their reasons for doing the work, when they're the only people who can define those reasons. Your argument is becoming more detached from observable fact and straying into trying to impose your feelings (which are clearly strong) in pace of those facts.
I'm going to put this here because I want to circle back to this later, because as someone who lives with and works with those with mental illness, I find it pretty antagonizing (and disrespectful) the attitudes that are being taken here...
If you go around screaming in peoples faces in public, insulting them and belittling them, screaming "I was just communicating" when they retaliate will get you zero sympathy for your situation because your actions have repercussions that weasel wording will not always save you from.
See above, as when the word of god officially lists it in it's copyrights and trademarks as a mechanical system to facilitate gameplay across multiple IP's (the same filing that has existed from origin to now), that it consistently crosses over with other IP's (self confessing you're ignoring those because you like those IP's doesn't make them less of a crossover), and directly plans crossovers with other IP's (which it's done since it's inception). The ONLY thing Wizards ever made clear wasn't part of the crossover was it's own story canon, which admittely would be terrible if they tried to canonise other IP's into their own. But they've never, not in the history of the games publication, ever said that the mechanical focus can't be crossed over into other games, other IP's or other media.
Sorry, remember that part I brought up earlier I wanted to save for later...
... You don't get to go around using mental illness as a weapon to beat people over the head with, asserting that disagreeing with you is akin to mental illness, and then jump in to accuse those who view with disdain the anger and hatred that people are spewing out as misusing the application of mental illness. I know it's consistent with your side of the arguments 'one rule for us, another rule for everyone else' mentality that drives your sides collective consciousness, but as someone who literally lives with the feeling of reality trying to crush them from existence everyday, seeing anyone bandying around mental illness as a weapon (or ill conceived defense) is appaulling, and that behaviour will drive away new players and destroy the games enduring fandom far quicker than any disagreement over IP crossovers, favourite deck colours or favourite formats ever could.
Argument is fine, tearing someone else apart is fine. Using the mental health of third parties is not.
This user has language problems due to their mental health problems and sometimes may not use the best wording to explain their thoughts.
Draft the "'What Is This Nonsense?'" casual cube.
To answer your question re: third party IP's and reprints I'll be deffering to the contracts that the various UFS publishers made over time (including the unreleased staff cards).
When using a third party IP the set itself can only be manufactured and distributed for a set amount of time established within the IP licensing contract. That means, once the contract ends, Wizards can't use the art, names or any references to that IP. For instance, if they had a W40k version of Naturalize with Orcish art, they could reprint Naturalize ad-infinitum, but could not use the Orcish art as it depicts a GW held property. If they made a card that was called, say, The Great Clean One with a new ability Soap Suds and a 40K style frame, they could reuse the soap suds mechanic, and any stats on the card itself, but it's art, name, and anything else 40Kish would be disallowed.
Also, they can, as with TWD cards, make 'functional reprints' any time they want. Using this card as an example, Wizards could reprint this card when the licence deal ends... but they must change the card name, the art, and may not use 'Walker' as a creature token because 'walkers' are a 'terminological' identifier of TWD, and I'm reasonbly sure nobody is stupid enough to go to court and try to make the case that TWD's fans are unfamiliar with that term.
This revives the argument of why doing these as seperate cards has caused debate: a reskinned version of this doesn't replace the original card, it would be playable alongside it, which obviously breaks the spirit of the game in some way (functional 8 copies/2 copies, format depending). Though, nobody seems to care that you could essentially wack 20 copies of Elvish Mystic in a deck using variants. They only seem to care when it's characters, IP's or deck types they don't personally enjoy...
This user has language problems due to their mental health problems and sometimes may not use the best wording to explain their thoughts.
Draft the "'What Is This Nonsense?'" casual cube.
I already showed how we are traveling down a slope already and yet you are saying we shouldn't expect to go further down the slope? Weird.
Or I was arguing the point that "this doesn't take anything away", which the development time of this could have meant other normal Magic products didn't get developed, making what that poster said false. This isn't a "only product I like", there are a lot I don't like being made (planeswalker decks, theme boosters, collector's boosters, secret lairs), but they are Magic products. I know that I'd much rather have Magic product that focuses on Magic than focusing on other products. I play Magic to play Magic, not to play LotR or 40k, if I wanted to do that there are other avenues for those to other card games to video games to miniatures.
....And? That's not a reason to put them in the game. Smoking commercials haven't been in the MTG system either, guess based on your logic they should be in the game too.
Or, and this might sound crazy, that first half was an actual question and not an argument, but why wouldn't you think that?
So your argument is "people like to debate about superheroes" is a reason to do this?
Also, you may want to look at the DCEU for a failure to crossover.
While a crossover may not be why something fails it's usually a sign that an IP is dying and they are trying to do anything to bring in an audience of any kind to survive. Television does this plenty, from crossovers to time travel, there are a myriad of examples that show when an IP is starting to fail. To me a crossover, if it is done too often, is an admittance that the IP you are bringing in so many others into cannot stand on its own. Magic has been on pretty shaky ground the last couple of years, constant products, gameplay becoming weaker due to cards being too strong and gameplay not balanced, and more that this is just another problem to add to that list.
I have not said how great Magic lore is, but why read when you can ignore things! I questioned whether that person knew all of it as they said "it's terrible" multiple times in a row with no evidence for their opinion as to why, but hey if you want to jump to conclusions I can get that mat from Office Space.
As for a copyright, I don't care. Magic was not intended for this for well over two decades, there's a reason they stopped doing it. What makes them so sure they can pull it off now and make the game better? I'm sure crickets will sound soon.
All Magic worlds are in the Magic UNIVERSE, it cannot be a multiverse if there's only one. That's literally what multi- means, multiple. An extra world is not another universe, it's another world in THE universe. Just like how Jupiter isn't another universe to Earth. How do you not know that? Dragonball has a multiverse. Power Rangers has a multiverse. Marvel & DC have a multiverse. Magic does not have a multiverse.
They are not traveling to Angel Grove to summon Goldar, they are traveling to Innistrad and summoning a zombie. One is within Magic's own universe, the other had a average at best movie in 2017.
That's a promotion, not a crossover. Pizza Hut didn't "crossover" with Sony in the 90s to give out PS1 demo discs when you ordered a pizza.
Wow, you sent me to the main page of a company. That tells me......nothing. So the "word of god" is nothing?
Do you have an example of them summoning across time? If they could why would time machines needed to be made?
Looking that up on google and MTG wiki gives me nothing for what this is outside of Aetherflux Reservoir, what is this?
Yeah, you're right, cause they're the same thing. Garruk is able to walk through time and different universes, yep, happens every block. No, they go to different worlds and that's the only thing in common. One thing in common does not make it exactly. Magic doesn't cause people to rush McDonald's screaming for BBQ sauce and cause them to flop on the floor screaming "REEEEEEE I'M PICKLE RICK" (in this case the REEE is actually correct for what happened in that famous video.)
That episode in no way was a jab at MTG, it was an episode where they came up with random jokes that they couldn't fit into an episode and then created the multiverse tv as a framing device to allow them to do so. It wasn't making fun of anything in particular, just a bunch of random jokes.
Also, world walking has been a thing in literature/media long before Magic and Rick & Morty, it's nothing new.
Because telling someone you can't use the word hate (definition - feel intense or passionate dislike) is wrong as it is being used correctly by those who hate this announcement. It's not my fault when people use words incorrectly. Would you like to try again, but this time do it better?
What's your argument here again? The poster I replied to stated that because a magazine did a thing and made a fake card that means that it's okay for other fake cards to be used. You're right, we should let the 1 cmc "You win the game" card in play. It only makes sense.
No one is screaming in people's faces here, insulting and belittling are being done by multiple people from both sides of the like/dislike aisle, you for example are doing the same thing. Not sure where you are going with this, people get passionate and conversations happen. That poster wanted people to communicate, but then hated it when people were....communicating. That's literally hypocrisy on their part.
Wow....that literally had nothing to do with my argument or the argument the poster I replied to was making which was what is a crossover or not, in their example they believe being inspired by something automatically makes the thing brought about by inspiration a crossover, which it is not, but I'm glad you could post a bunch of nonsense that had zero to do with any of the points being made in that quote block. Good job.
Ummm....what?! When was I using mental illness as a weapon? What in the blue ever loving echi double hockey sticks is this?
No, seriously, WHAT?! What rules am I imposing for others but not following? I'm having some real trouble trying to not get banned for spitting out obscenities, how was I doing any of that? The poster I replied to said it was a mental condition and I was questioning it.
What is happening here? What is this nonsense?
One issue with the functional reprints is when you get to the scale of the 40kommander decks and LotR set is that we could be seeing the potential of 300+ cards strictly with those IPs on them. That's a lot of functional reprints. They may also never be able to Godzilla skin those cards as they would still need Gandalf below the "other name" of the card and that then would accrue some sort of cost. I also have to wonder if this would be an issue on streamed tournaments when WotC shows someone playing Gandalf in a Legacy game or on Arena if any of these cards go to Historic. will we see those cards banned so WotC doesn't have to keep shelling out money to show those licenses?
I don't particularly look forward to seeing a "Functional reprint set" with the tag line of "Now with proper Magic art and text."
TWD had the issue where we couldn't see the proper name of the cards beneath the TWD names, currently there is no promise of a "real" version of those cards because WotC didn't think that far ahead.
The thing is that direction is important you wouldn't call Persona or Metroid or Minecraft Games that were designed to facilitate crossovers just because they appear in Smash bros which is however a game which is desinged to do that. Furthermore most if not all of those crossovers happened not from the hasbro side asking but the crossover side asking to basically do the thing many in here accuse wizards of doing with this, a quick cash grab. Also the size of the crossovers were in most cases hold to a minimum to you know have the other IP keep it's Identity.
That's why I personally wouldn't mind a silver bordered crossover set for example that way you can use the game system but keeping the crossover distinct but still playable for those that like these, albeit as an opt-in rather than an opt-out.
I can't say that I'm particularly moved by the argument "MtG concepts/likenesses/settings have been used in promos of other IPs, so this is fine" because I don't play those games and never heard of the promos you're talking about. They aren't a part of my MtG experience and they have nothing to do with how I view the game. I have been involved with MtG in some form or another since 1998 and my perspective on what the game is was shaped by almost a quarter century of MtG cards, not cynical promotional stuff that exists outside the game.
It is like FF7. I don't particularly love that game, but it's fine enough and it's a good example of what I'm trying to express so let's just pretend I love that game. Cloud has appeared in a lot of other IPs, none of which I play, to me that is just tacky marketing from Square that I can and do safely ignore because they exist outside and apart from the game of FF7 that I enjoy. But if the Kingdom Hearts gang showed up in FF7 Remake Part Two, it would surely compromise my perception of the game.
We did what now? What makes you think I'm proud that WotC pushed their IP elsewhere to market MtG and/or make a quick buck? At best, I accept that it's a thing WotC will do in their strategy to keep the market for the game healthy.
As well, since we're expressing what we're amused by, I'm amused by how posters here are characterizing the attitudes and behaviors of those who aren't liking the Universe Beyond concept. It's all getting the clickbait title treatment, overstating responses and emotionality to frame arguments and posters in a way that's easier to argue against or paint as dismissible. I'm not experiencing a major backlash, UB is a thing that doesn't vibe with my experience of the game, I'm unlikely to engage with it and I doubt I'll ever experience much if any of it so this isn't really a big deal to me. I just find the debate here fascinating and truth be told, I've got pandemic boredom amid chronic work stress and every cat benefits from a scratching post.
What player constructs their perception of the game on patent documents?
Homage/Influence/Parody =/= Crossover
This is why the events of The Avengers XXX: A Porn Parody are not canon in the Marvel Cinematic Universe. A little more seriously, though, there's a reason aspects of MtG being influenced by or homages to other works does not feel out of place where UB does. It's adaptation versus transplantation, and honestly it's been surreal for me to see so many posters not get that. To give credit to Tiro, he analogized the point well by saying the Theros gods might as well have been the actual Greek gods by the logic that homage/influence and crossovers are interchangeable.
Perhaps you're right, though, that MtG was always intended not to be a game of its own with its own independent identity but instead a multi-IP platform of crossovers only delayed by MtG not being big enough. But at the end of the day, that hasn't been my experience with the game for almost a quarter century and I don't intend for it to be part of my experience going forward.
Archatmos
Excellion
Fracture: Israfiel (WBR), Wujal (URG), Valedon (GUB), Amduat (BGW), Paladris (RWU)
Collision (Set Two of the Fracture Block)
Quest for the Forsaken (Set Two of the Excellion Block)
Katingal: Plane of Chains
This is a big one, if it was meant to be then where has it been before now? Sure, you had a few cards here and there, usually illegal tournament cards, nothing that really anyone could care about too much, but here within about 1 1/2 years we have 4 different IPs coming into the game in one big way or another. D&D is one thing (though I'm not the biggest fan of), but the others are a bit jarring, to say the least.
I'm also musing about the earliest MtG crossovers. Who can forget classic characters like Sindbad and Ali Baba? Have vintage players ever complained that Jace, the Mind Sculptor hangs out in a Bazaar of Baghdad? Oh, you're Chandra from Kaladesh? I'm Ali from Cairo. I'm currently reading the Thousand and One Nights (truly massive by the way, makes Homer's stories look like Cat in the Hat), so I can't help but be amused-- MtG did a crossover before it even did its own lore.
Lady Gaga can't be your commander yet, but Cao Cao can. (That's pronounced Tsao Tsao, by the way. The Pinyin system for Chinese spelling is stupid.) Your Humble Budoka can consult with a Taoist Mystic when his heart is troubled.
But I'm just playing devil's advocate. I hate this change. If only a small number of crossover cards exist (as do now), you can easily ignore them. The more that come out, the more of a hodgepodge the game becomes.
My argument is thus: make IP crossover cards BLUE BORDER CARDS!!!
Low-power cube enthusiast!
My 1570 card cube (no longer updated)
My 415 Peasant+ Artifact and Enchantment Cube
Ever-Expanding "Just throw it in" cube.
This one killed me. On a crusade to defend the honor of Magic's lore, and literally knows so little about Magic's lore that he winds up attacking it himself. I'M DEAD.
I might be misunderstanding you here, and if that's the case I apologize, but Magic does have a multiverse. Earth and Jupiter are different worlds in the same universe, like how Innistrad and its moon are in the same universe. But Innistrad and Zendikar aren't in the same universe in that same respect. They're different planes within Magic's Multiverse.
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#BLM
#DefundThePolice