It allows for 4-5 color good-stuff control decks to exist in Legacy while mitigating their weakness to Wasteland, thus making them both powerful and resilient enough to run all the "best" cards with relative impunity, while also replacing itself in the process.
Honestly, I have been waiting for Astrolabe and Oko to be banned from Legacy for almost a full year up until now. Arcanist though...talk about out of left field.
Modern's Ad Nauseam-Angel's Grace decks prefer Lightning Storm and were just fine with Laboratory Maniac, so a Thassa's Oracle ban wouldn't really affect them. Modern Oops All Spells also cannot use Thassa's Oracle in their maindeck win con because it requires at least one more crucial mana. Honestly, Thassa's Oracle scrunching Legacy Doomsday's and Oops All Spells's deck slots seems like a good thing.
The cascade loophole was a good fix, I hope they are proactive in fixing more rules loopholes that become popular in the future.
I feel like cards such as Oko and Uro that deserve bans across the board should have a mail-in program where we can send them back to WotC for a free Double Masters pack or something.
So happy they banned SSG, this card never belonged with Modern.
I'm glad they're shaking Pioneer big time, I dig this format and I want to see it grow.
Oko in legacy and Lurrus in vintage were expected. Tbh, Arcanist is a bit surprising to me, it seems to be in response to the community whining about it.
There's some speculative thought process in this announcement, it is rather different than what we're used to. It reminds me of the inception of Modern where they preemptively banned a million cards.
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Pioneer - A bunch of stuff Modern - Humans Legacy - Grixis Phoenix / Death & Taxes
No changes to standard? They are seriously just leaving turn 2 ugin plays happen in best of 1 on arena?
Not to mention rogues goes unchecked? Standard is an absolute garbage format yet they do nothing? Thanks wotc
I'm guessing they're choosing to do nothing with Standard on account of most of the player base playing on Arena over In-Person Events due to the Ongoing Pandemic when that seems like a really lame excuse IMO. The format itself could be in for a rude awakening the sooner we get back to In-Person Events and FNM at Local Game Stores to the point where I'm not even sure If rotation will make any difference by then. EDH / Commander has taken whatever passion or enthusiasm Wizards of the Coast had left for Standard and thrown it away completely which is reflective toward their current design philosophy.
Seems like the attitude among the MTG community is that we want Wizards of the Coast to preemptively ban cards rather than wait on metagame data before taking action. However considering how long they've been around as a company you'd think they're already able to tell just how broken certain cards are at least before they're officially printed as Hasbro doesn't allow Wizards of the Coast's R&D department enough time to properly playtest. Their philosophy is really just to throw a bunch of random stuff against the wall to see what sticks and what doesn't when a lot of times that tends to backfire and not in a good way either.
"Restriction breeds creativity." - Sheldon Menery on EDH / Commander in Magic: The Gathering
"Cancel Culture is the real reason why everyone's not allowed to have nice things anymore." - Anonymous
"For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his own soul?" - Mark 8:36
"Most men and women will grow up to love their servitude and will never dream of revolution." - Aldous Huxley, Brave New World
"Every life decision is always a risk / reward proposition." - Sanjay Gupta
Oko is giving you trouble in Commander? Not Thassa's Oracle and friends?
yes, no, sort of. This in part due to EDH being more about social stuff and what metas you visit rather than the banlist itself. One meta might be more laid back, another could be more competitive.
I might be missing something but why SSG is getting banned considering all other changes in this announcement?
Based on the announcement article, they've been watching it for a while now. Basically, in the alternate dimension where the past two years haven't given endless broken cards, it would have still been banned now.
No changes to standard? They are seriously just leaving turn 2 ugin plays happen in best of 1 on arena?
Not to mention rogues goes unchecked? Standard is an absolute garbage format yet they do nothing? Thanks wotc
The Standard version of the Trickery deck dies to anything in your sideboard. Sure, this means it should be banned in BO1 Standard on Arena, but people are apparently maindecking stupid things to stop it, so it might go away on its own. On the other hand, Rogues folds to literally any other deck.
I was going to say that the cascade fix doesn't solve a T2 Emrakul but they kinda nipped that with the banning of Trickery and SSG so it's not really relevant anymore.
'buster
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'buster
HR Analyst. Gamer. Activist | Fearless, and forthright | Aggro-control is a mindset. Elspeth and Jhoira rock my world.
No changes to standard? They are seriously just leaving turn 2 ugin plays happen in best of 1 on arena?
Not to mention rogues goes unchecked? Standard is an absolute garbage format yet they do nothing? Thanks wotc
well, Tibalt's Trickery in standard isn't "too good" it's just plain stupid....
I guess they allowed it to continue.
maybe generating a degenerate playstyle in which no one has fun is alright as long as such deck doesn't win too much.
well, Tibalt's Trickery in standard isn't "too good" it's just plain stupid....
I guess they allowed it to continue.
maybe generating a degenerate playstyle in which no one has fun is alright as long as such deck doesn't win too much.
They quite literally banned the Modern "Eggs" deck because it took too long and was not fun to play against.
So there is a very real reason to remove decks by banning key cards, if the play pattern they produce is absolute cancer for the game, it just kills any spirit to play.
That doesnt mean any combo deck fills that slot, but especially in Arena, Trickery had to be banned for 1-game play basically instantly, the day they saw the deck become "popular" in standard they could have removed the card instantly and fix the problem at the root, instead they let the wound fester.
well, Tibalt's Trickery in standard isn't "too good" it's just plain stupid....
I guess they allowed it to continue.
maybe generating a degenerate playstyle in which no one has fun is alright as long as such deck doesn't win too much.
They quite literally banned the Modern "Eggs" deck because it took too long and was not fun to play against.
So there is a very real reason to remove decks by banning key cards, if the play pattern they produce is absolute cancer for the game, it just kills any spirit to play.
That doesnt mean any combo deck fills that slot, but especially in Arena, Trickery had to be banned for 1-game play basically instantly, the day they saw the deck become "popular" in standard they could have removed the card instantly and fix the problem at the root, instead they let the wound fester.
yeah... this is true.
I'm all in for banning of Tibalt's Trickery.... that deck generates 100% of bad matches.
it will either straight up win or lose on turn 2 like 80% of the times, it's horrible lol
well, Tibalt's Trickery in standard isn't "too good" it's just plain stupid....
I guess they allowed it to continue.
maybe generating a degenerate playstyle in which no one has fun is alright as long as such deck doesn't win too much.
They quite literally banned the Modern "Eggs" deck because it took too long and was not fun to play against.
So there is a very real reason to remove decks by banning key cards, if the play pattern they produce is absolute cancer for the game, it just kills any spirit to play.
That doesnt mean any combo deck fills that slot, but especially in Arena, Trickery had to be banned for 1-game play basically instantly, the day they saw the deck become "popular" in standard they could have removed the card instantly and fix the problem at the root, instead they let the wound fester.
yeah... this is true.
I'm all in for banning of Tibalt's Trickery.... that deck generates 100% of bad matches.
it will either straight up win or lose on turn 2 like 80% of the times, it's horrible lol
I'm 8-2,against the deck in standard, they fizzle or sometimes mull to 4 and just concede.
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"May he who is without mana cast the first spell!"
Check out my Youtube channel where I upload MTG content videos twice a week!
well, Tibalt's Trickery in standard isn't "too good" it's just plain stupid....
I guess they allowed it to continue.
maybe generating a degenerate playstyle in which no one has fun is alright as long as such deck doesn't win too much.
They quite literally banned the Modern "Eggs" deck because it took too long and was not fun to play against.
So there is a very real reason to remove decks by banning key cards, if the play pattern they produce is absolute cancer for the game, it just kills any spirit to play.
That doesnt mean any combo deck fills that slot, but especially in Arena, Trickery had to be banned for 1-game play basically instantly, the day they saw the deck become "popular" in standard they could have removed the card instantly and fix the problem at the root, instead they let the wound fester.
yeah... this is true.
I'm all in for banning of Tibalt's Trickery.... that deck generates 100% of bad matches.
it will either straight up win or lose on turn 2 like 80% of the times, it's horrible lol
I'm 8-2,against the deck in standard, they fizzle or sometimes mull to 4 and just concede.
yeah, but the issue is that, even being 8-2, none of those 10 matches were good, most likely.
they either drop a threat you can't deal on turn 2, or mulligan until concede, or whiff and concede.
there's no middle ground, no actual magic game.
they either drop a threat you can't deal on turn 2, or mulligan until concede, or whiff and concede.
there's no middle ground, no actual magic game.
The deciding factor seems to be that "too long, no fun" is worse than "no fun, quickly done". Legitimate if you measure fun over time rather than fun per game.
It remains bad that the card was specifically designed to allow such a play pattern in the first place.
Heck, every day I wake up, I don't go out and kill people - and I'm rewarded by not having legions of enemies! Amazing how that works.
Although ninjas are experts of camouflage and concealment, they are actually horrible liars. This means that no matter where you are, you can shout out, “Are there any ninjas here?” and if there’s a ninja within earshot, he’ll be compelled to respond.
they either drop a threat you can't deal on turn 2, or mulligan until concede, or whiff and concede.
there's no middle ground, no actual magic game.
The deciding factor seems to be that "too long, no fun" is worse than "no fun, quickly done". Legitimate if you measure fun over time rather than fun per game.
It remains bad that the card was specifically designed to allow such a play pattern in the first place.
yeah....
with Trickery, the main issue IMO is how fast the matches actually go....
so all the people that just want to quickly farm arena will use the deck because nothing will burn through the farming process faster.
and then it generates a stupid amount of bad matches.
I've encountered far more of this deck than I'd like... lol.
It allows for 4-5 color good-stuff control decks to exist in Legacy while mitigating their weakness to Wasteland, thus making them both powerful and resilient enough to run all the "best" cards with relative impunity, while also replacing itself in the process.
Honestly, I have been waiting for Astrolabe and Oko to be banned from Legacy for almost a full year up until now. Arcanist though...talk about out of left field.
Not to mention rogues goes unchecked? Standard is an absolute garbage format yet they do nothing? Thanks wotc
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Kenessos, Priest of Thassa (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||
Check out my Youtube channel where I upload MTG content videos twice a week!
Mtg Lifestyle
Modern's Ad Nauseam-Angel's Grace decks prefer Lightning Storm and were just fine with Laboratory Maniac, so a Thassa's Oracle ban wouldn't really affect them. Modern Oops All Spells also cannot use Thassa's Oracle in their maindeck win con because it requires at least one more crucial mana. Honestly, Thassa's Oracle scrunching Legacy Doomsday's and Oops All Spells's deck slots seems like a good thing.
I feel like cards such as Oko and Uro that deserve bans across the board should have a mail-in program where we can send them back to WotC for a free Double Masters pack or something.
I'm glad they're shaking Pioneer big time, I dig this format and I want to see it grow.
Oko in legacy and Lurrus in vintage were expected. Tbh, Arcanist is a bit surprising to me, it seems to be in response to the community whining about it.
There's some speculative thought process in this announcement, it is rather different than what we're used to. It reminds me of the inception of Modern where they preemptively banned a million cards.
Seems like the attitude among the MTG community is that we want Wizards of the Coast to preemptively ban cards rather than wait on metagame data before taking action. However considering how long they've been around as a company you'd think they're already able to tell just how broken certain cards are at least before they're officially printed as Hasbro doesn't allow Wizards of the Coast's R&D department enough time to properly playtest. Their philosophy is really just to throw a bunch of random stuff against the wall to see what sticks and what doesn't when a lot of times that tends to backfire and not in a good way either.
"Restriction breeds creativity." - Sheldon Menery on EDH / Commander in Magic: The Gathering
"Cancel Culture is the real reason why everyone's not allowed to have nice things anymore." - Anonymous
"For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his own soul?" - Mark 8:36
"Most men and women will grow up to love their servitude and will never dream of revolution." - Aldous Huxley, Brave New World
"Every life decision is always a risk / reward proposition." - Sanjay Gupta
Oko is giving you trouble in Commander? Not Thassa's Oracle and friends?
The Standard version of the Trickery deck dies to anything in your sideboard. Sure, this means it should be banned in BO1 Standard on Arena, but people are apparently maindecking stupid things to stop it, so it might go away on its own. On the other hand, Rogues folds to literally any other deck.
'buster
HR Analyst. Gamer. Activist | Fearless, and forthright | Aggro-control is a mindset.
Elspeth and Jhoira rock my world.
well, Tibalt's Trickery in standard isn't "too good" it's just plain stupid....
I guess they allowed it to continue.
maybe generating a degenerate playstyle in which no one has fun is alright as long as such deck doesn't win too much.
They quite literally banned the Modern "Eggs" deck because it took too long and was not fun to play against.
So there is a very real reason to remove decks by banning key cards, if the play pattern they produce is absolute cancer for the game, it just kills any spirit to play.
That doesnt mean any combo deck fills that slot, but especially in Arena, Trickery had to be banned for 1-game play basically instantly, the day they saw the deck become "popular" in standard they could have removed the card instantly and fix the problem at the root, instead they let the wound fester.
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👮👮👮 #BlueLivesMatter 👮👮👮
I'm all in for banning of Tibalt's Trickery.... that deck generates 100% of bad matches.
it will either straight up win or lose on turn 2 like 80% of the times, it's horrible lol
I'm 8-2,against the deck in standard, they fizzle or sometimes mull to 4 and just concede.
Check out my Youtube channel where I upload MTG content videos twice a week!
Mtg Lifestyle
yeah, but the issue is that, even being 8-2, none of those 10 matches were good, most likely.
they either drop a threat you can't deal on turn 2, or mulligan until concede, or whiff and concede.
there's no middle ground, no actual magic game.
The deciding factor seems to be that "too long, no fun" is worse than "no fun, quickly done". Legitimate if you measure fun over time rather than fun per game.
It remains bad that the card was specifically designed to allow such a play pattern in the first place.
Although ninjas are experts of camouflage and concealment, they are actually horrible liars. This means that no matter where you are, you can shout out, “Are there any ninjas here?” and if there’s a ninja within earshot, he’ll be compelled to respond.
yeah....
with Trickery, the main issue IMO is how fast the matches actually go....
so all the people that just want to quickly farm arena will use the deck because nothing will burn through the farming process faster.
and then it generates a stupid amount of bad matches.
I've encountered far more of this deck than I'd like... lol.