Interesting, so if I understand it correctly, you can deal damage from a GWS (Giant, Wizard, Spell) to a creature or PW, not enough to kill it, then later deal damage in excess of what is needed to kill it by any source and you still get the card.
For direct damage X spells, it's basically Kicker 1: Do 1 extra damage and draw a card.
Since when did Ymir learned how to make fire and is so tiny?
anyway does it work as a izzet giant tribal edh legend?
I think he's less Ymir, and more Ægir combined with his brother Logi (giant kings of the sea and fire, respectively.)
Mmmmmaybe Utgarda-Loki, with that whole wizard theme. (A tricky giant who humiliated thr gods using magic and escaped punishment. Said he'd protect his home with all the magic he knew if the gods tried to harm his home and people.)
They tried too hard to make it standard playable and we ended up with a "giant" 3/3 -.-
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How i feel about competitive players and casual players in EDH: The competitive are german tourists, the casual are italian tourists, both in a italian beach. The italians asking themselves "why are the germans here?" make a legitimate question, the answer is because the beach is beautiful, no matter the country you came from. The italians wanting to ban the germans are dumb, because if the germans pay for their stay and follow the rules like everyone else, they have the right to be in the beach. Hovewer, if the germans started to ask themselves "why are the italians here?"... they would be dumb as hell.
So if I Blasphemous Act, does that count at a spell dealing damage or does there have to have been a previous spell dealing the damage? My gut say no, but the effect is out of the ordinary
So if I Blasphemous Act, does that count at a spell dealing damage or does there have to have been a previous spell dealing the damage? My gut say no, but the effect is out of the ordinary
Blasphemous act + this guy = decree of pain. Sadly, this is a nonbo with irencrag pyromancer - I keep hoping for that card to be relevant but it just can't get there.
They tried too hard to make it standard playable and we ended up with a "giant" 3/3 -.-
Yeah, or just an issue with filling the curve for limited. It's an issue whenever wotc tries to make tribal work for a tribe that is generally set at one specific size. It's weird to get little baby angels, too.
They tried too hard to make it standard playable and we ended up with a "giant" 3/3 -.-
I mean look if it was a 5/5 for 5 or something people would think it’s unplayable. The only thing they could’ve done is if they were to design it at that high a cost would be to boost the rarity and give him the ability like “giants cost x less to cast, where x is the number of cards you’ve drawn this turn minus one.”
This guy is definitely interesting. A 3/3 for 3 is...fine, and it has at least one (wizard), if not two at least *somewhat* relevant creature types. The ability seems pretty solid to me, as with this guy only costing 3 mana, it's not unreasonable to be able to double-spell with him and a burn spell in the same turn and immediately get your card back, and if you ever untap with him, I could easily see drawing 2-3 extra cards in a turn against a creature deck.
Edit:
Just thought of a rules question with this guy. If my opponent has a planeswalker with 1 loyalty counter on it, and I attack it with 2 Bonecrusher Giants, do I draw one or two cards? Because I know combat damage is dealt simultaneously, but it can still create multiple triggered events (i.e. Ajani's Pridemate and attacking with 2 creatures with lifelink). Anyone have any thoughts on this?
Yeah, or just an issue with filling the curve for limited. It's an issue whenever wotc tries to make tribal work for a tribe that is generally set at one specific size. It's weird to get little baby angels, too.
Power is how much damage you can deal; and toughness is how much you can take before being overwhelmed. Training, skill, physical and mental conditioning, emotional state, willingness to fight, armor, and magic can all affect these numbers. Pit Bruce Lee in a fight against an ordinary desk-jockey, and it wouldn't even resemble a fight, regardless of sharing a similar stature.
They aren't baby giants or baby angels - they are the same size as the other members of their species. They just may not be as good of warriors, they may be pacifists who don't care to fight, or scientists who prefer to use their brains. There are a million flavor reasons that can explain it. And that doesn't even count the fact that this is first and foremost a game that requires balance. It may pit squirrels against gods, allow snakes to wear boots, or allow a single bird to carry and fight with seven swords at once, but the mechanics need some semblance of balance, or the flavor is all for naught. And sometimes that means Giants with lower power and toughness.
Power is how much damage you can deal; and toughness is how much you can take before being overwhelmed. Training, skill, physical and mental conditioning, emotional state, willingness to fight, armor, and magic can all affect these numbers. Pit Bruce Lee in a fight against an ordinary desk-jockey, and it wouldn't even resemble a fight, regardless of sharing a similar stature.
They aren't baby giants or baby angels - they are the same size as the other members of their species. They just may not be as good of warriors, they may be pacifists who don't care to fight, or scientists who prefer to use their brains. There are a million flavor reasons that can explain it. And that doesn't even count the fact that this is first and foremost a game that requires balance. It may pit squirrels against gods, allow snakes to wear boots, or allow a single bird to carry and fight with seven swords at once, but the mechanics need some semblance of balance, or the flavor is all for naught. And sometimes that means Giants with lower power and toughness.
WotC ditched the entire p/t and art representation entirely.
In flavor standards, a human would basically always be a 1/1 as any wizard thats physically weak, a basic soldier might be 2/2 and the pinnacle of human strength might top out at a 3/3 at best.
A Grizzly Bears was a 2/2 , and a human that can rival such an animals strength would be a 2/2.
A legendary kind of powerful being might be stronger, but overall the classic creature types has quite distinct p/t associate to them, which reflected quite well how strong they are in comparison.
Powerful beings like Vampires and Angels at 4/4 flyer, an Air Elemental at 4/4 are flavorwise already on the top of the foodchain, anything more powerful would rival an even greater power (so gigantic monsters like Leviathan would be larger.
----
Today, thats all irrelevant, as p/t is more about the games power creep and gameplay reflection, theres almost no real reflection in flavor terms anymore.
I suppose you could abuse Aegar's ability if you could set up some sort of "infinite ping" scenario on an indestructible creature.
No, maybe not--the source has to be giant, wizard, or spell. Still....Niv-Mizzet, Parun, if you can get there. HJit an indestructible creature for excess, draw from the giant, ping from the dragon wizard becuase of the card draw, repeat.
I suppose you could abuse Aegar's ability if you could set up some sort of "infinite ping" scenario on an indestructible creature.
No, maybe not--the source has to be giant, wizard, or spell. Still....Niv-Mizzet, Parun, if you can get there. HJit an indestructible creature for excess, draw from the giant, ping from the dragon wizard becuase of the card draw, repeat.
Yeah, or just an issue with filling the curve for limited. It's an issue whenever wotc tries to make tribal work for a tribe that is generally set at one specific size. It's weird to get little baby angels, too.
Power is how much damage you can deal; and toughness is how much you can take before being overwhelmed. Training, skill, physical and mental conditioning, emotional state, willingness to fight, armor, and magic can all affect these numbers. Pit Bruce Lee in a fight against an ordinary desk-jockey, and it wouldn't even resemble a fight, regardless of sharing a similar stature.
They aren't baby giants or baby angels - they are the same size as the other members of their species. They just may not be as good of warriors, they may be pacifists who don't care to fight, or scientists who prefer to use their brains. There are a million flavor reasons that can explain it. And that doesn't even count the fact that this is first and foremost a game that requires balance. It may pit squirrels against gods, allow snakes to wear boots, or allow a single bird to carry and fight with seven swords at once, but the mechanics need some semblance of balance, or the flavor is all for naught. And sometimes that means Giants with lower power and toughness.
All true, but let's be real, it feels weird. And there are so many different other cards that do rely on toughness being treated as your size. And no amount of flavor can explain the toughness to card art size on some cards compared to others. You're telling me that this legendary Giant, who is massively larger than a viking longboat, and who can control both fire AND ice, is somehow so much worse at fighting (or worse at fighting/strategy/spellcraft however you want to conceive it) that he ends up being weaker than the generic 4/4 giants in this set, or a legendary 4/4 knight or warrior from somewhere else?
Of course we have to suspend disbelief for this sort of thing to make sense.
We are looking too deep into P/T. There are so many other things that come into play with that. Zetalpa is one of the biggest things we’ve seen in Magic and there are smaller monsters in Ikoria that are 9/9 and 7/11. Now what would be cool is if they defined what determines P/T for each plane. Emrakrul is a 15/15 because she is very large in strength and stature for any plane. Innistrad’s 13/13 is Zendikar’s 15/15 for an example.
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"The essence of every world, every spell and every thought is power. Nothing else matters, because nothing else exists."
We are looking too deep into P/T. There are so many other things that come into play with that. Zetalpa is one of the biggest things we’ve seen in Magic and there are smaller monsters in Ikoria that are 9/9 and 7/11. Now what would be cool is if they defined what determines P/T for each plane. Emrakrul is a 15/15 because she is very large in strength and stature for any plane. Innistrad’s 13/13 is Zendikar’s 15/15 for an example.
No, they just give p/t villy nilly as its entirely gameplay and has basically no foundation in flavor at all anymore.
A mighty beast can be anything from 2/2 to 4/4 and looks the same.
A dragon can be a 3/3 or a 6/6 and theres no visible difference, its entirely what they want gameplay wise.
Eldrazi especially are just over the top, they could be 20/20 and larger, but then gameplay suffers tremendously.
13/13 size is even founded because the set had a "13" theme on many cards, otherwise it would just be 15/15 as it was before.
----
For some time you could argue that some cards get a p/t boost for various reasons, a legendary human like Gerrard Capashen could be a little bit bigger than the usual 1/1 or 2/2 human for being a hero ... Commander Greven il-Vec was a super human that could rival a Lord of the Pit ... they just abandoned the entire flavor aspect entirely.
Right now we get plenty 5/5 sized stuff, way more even at common for gameplay reasons.
Anything larger than 6/6 is still on the epic proportions scale, and beyond 10/10 its absolutely gigantic ... thats still kinda true, but gameplay wise these massive p/t numbers are also very special, as its just too big.
Don‘t forget: the Hill Giant which was already printed in Alpha was also only a 3/3.
Correct. Giants vary wildly in size and 3/3 is already Elephant-sized. Since Wizards usually get to be less brawny a 3/3 Giant Wizard is perfectly within the realm of what we have seen.
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Heck, every day I wake up, I don't go out and kill people - and I'm rewarded by not having legions of enemies! Amazing how that works.
Although ninjas are experts of camouflage and concealment, they are actually horrible liars. This means that no matter where you are, you can shout out, “Are there any ninjas here?” and if there’s a ninja within earshot, he’ll be compelled to respond.
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And at the top of Giant Wizard tribal, turning excess damage into card draw.
Source: Matias Leveratto
anyway does it work as a izzet giant tribal edh legend?
For direct damage X spells, it's basically Kicker 1: Do 1 extra damage and draw a card.
I think he's less Ymir, and more Ægir combined with his brother Logi (giant kings of the sea and fire, respectively.)
Mmmmmaybe Utgarda-Loki, with that whole wizard theme. (A tricky giant who humiliated thr gods using magic and escaped punishment. Said he'd protect his home with all the magic he knew if the gods tried to harm his home and people.)
Blasphemous act + this guy = decree of pain. Sadly, this is a nonbo with irencrag pyromancer - I keep hoping for that card to be relevant but it just can't get there.
this seems really, really crazy.
what a powerful card.
Yes indeed. This is a very enticing build-around!
Yeah, or just an issue with filling the curve for limited. It's an issue whenever wotc tries to make tribal work for a tribe that is generally set at one specific size. It's weird to get little baby angels, too.
I mean look if it was a 5/5 for 5 or something people would think it’s unplayable. The only thing they could’ve done is if they were to design it at that high a cost would be to boost the rarity and give him the ability like “giants cost x less to cast, where x is the number of cards you’ve drawn this turn minus one.”
Edit:
Just thought of a rules question with this guy. If my opponent has a planeswalker with 1 loyalty counter on it, and I attack it with 2 Bonecrusher Giants, do I draw one or two cards? Because I know combat damage is dealt simultaneously, but it can still create multiple triggered events (i.e. Ajani's Pridemate and attacking with 2 creatures with lifelink). Anyone have any thoughts on this?
Power is how much damage you can deal; and toughness is how much you can take before being overwhelmed. Training, skill, physical and mental conditioning, emotional state, willingness to fight, armor, and magic can all affect these numbers. Pit Bruce Lee in a fight against an ordinary desk-jockey, and it wouldn't even resemble a fight, regardless of sharing a similar stature.
They aren't baby giants or baby angels - they are the same size as the other members of their species. They just may not be as good of warriors, they may be pacifists who don't care to fight, or scientists who prefer to use their brains. There are a million flavor reasons that can explain it. And that doesn't even count the fact that this is first and foremost a game that requires balance. It may pit squirrels against gods, allow snakes to wear boots, or allow a single bird to carry and fight with seven swords at once, but the mechanics need some semblance of balance, or the flavor is all for naught. And sometimes that means Giants with lower power and toughness.
2023 Average Peasant Cube|and Discussion
Because I have more decks than fit in a signature
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It's too bad Forbidden Orchard isn't $3 anymore.
Older Magic as a Board Game: Panglacial Wurm , Mill
WotC ditched the entire p/t and art representation entirely.
In flavor standards, a human would basically always be a 1/1 as any wizard thats physically weak, a basic soldier might be 2/2 and the pinnacle of human strength might top out at a 3/3 at best.
A Grizzly Bears was a 2/2 , and a human that can rival such an animals strength would be a 2/2.
A legendary kind of powerful being might be stronger, but overall the classic creature types has quite distinct p/t associate to them, which reflected quite well how strong they are in comparison.
Powerful beings like Vampires and Angels at 4/4 flyer, an Air Elemental at 4/4 are flavorwise already on the top of the foodchain, anything more powerful would rival an even greater power (so gigantic monsters like Leviathan would be larger.
----
Today, thats all irrelevant, as p/t is more about the games power creep and gameplay reflection, theres almost no real reflection in flavor terms anymore.
WUBRG#BlackLotusMatterWUBRG
👮👮👮 #BlueLivesMatter 👮👮👮
No, maybe not--the source has to be giant, wizard, or spell. Still....Niv-Mizzet, Parun, if you can get there. HJit an indestructible creature for excess, draw from the giant, ping from the dragon wizard becuase of the card draw, repeat.
Add a stuffy doll and the combo does a good impression of...curiosity.
All true, but let's be real, it feels weird. And there are so many different other cards that do rely on toughness being treated as your size. And no amount of flavor can explain the toughness to card art size on some cards compared to others. You're telling me that this legendary Giant, who is massively larger than a viking longboat, and who can control both fire AND ice, is somehow so much worse at fighting (or worse at fighting/strategy/spellcraft however you want to conceive it) that he ends up being weaker than the generic 4/4 giants in this set, or a legendary 4/4 knight or warrior from somewhere else?
Of course we have to suspend disbelief for this sort of thing to make sense.
No, they just give p/t villy nilly as its entirely gameplay and has basically no foundation in flavor at all anymore.
A mighty beast can be anything from 2/2 to 4/4 and looks the same.
A dragon can be a 3/3 or a 6/6 and theres no visible difference, its entirely what they want gameplay wise.
Eldrazi especially are just over the top, they could be 20/20 and larger, but then gameplay suffers tremendously.
13/13 size is even founded because the set had a "13" theme on many cards, otherwise it would just be 15/15 as it was before.
----
For some time you could argue that some cards get a p/t boost for various reasons, a legendary human like Gerrard Capashen could be a little bit bigger than the usual 1/1 or 2/2 human for being a hero ... Commander Greven il-Vec was a super human that could rival a Lord of the Pit ... they just abandoned the entire flavor aspect entirely.
Right now we get plenty 5/5 sized stuff, way more even at common for gameplay reasons.
Anything larger than 6/6 is still on the epic proportions scale, and beyond 10/10 its absolutely gigantic ... thats still kinda true, but gameplay wise these massive p/t numbers are also very special, as its just too big.
WUBRG#BlackLotusMatterWUBRG
👮👮👮 #BlueLivesMatter 👮👮👮
Correct. Giants vary wildly in size and 3/3 is already Elephant-sized. Since Wizards usually get to be less brawny a 3/3 Giant Wizard is perfectly within the realm of what we have seen.
Although ninjas are experts of camouflage and concealment, they are actually horrible liars. This means that no matter where you are, you can shout out, “Are there any ninjas here?” and if there’s a ninja within earshot, he’ll be compelled to respond.