Forget all the complex milling and exiling; the takeaway here is "red Counterspell". Any spell. For only 1R.
Even as a "fair mono-red counterspell with a downside", I can easily see this saving the butts of so many Modern players hitting an opposing Ad Nauseam with it, as that deck is so spell-dense that chances are the opponent will hit anything but Ad Nauseam.
What's the deal with the mill part of that red counterspell? I feel like it makes the design needlessly complicated and doesn't add anything.
EDIT: Is it to prevent abuse but without having to shuffle a library? If it's for that, that seems silly.
Simple: To screw over Sensei's Divining Top shenanigans that your opponent is utilizing.
That seems awfully specific, why not just mill the top 3 or 4 cards immediately then?
Because Wizards loves their randomness. See Haktos the Unscarred or Crystalline Golem. The randomness is supposed to be fun. And to an extent it is from a casual point of view. On average your looking at 1.5 cards milled. This can also screw over btw cards that tutor and put that card on top of their library such as Vampiric Tutor.
If Tibalt's Trickery sees play in Modern, expect to see it go up against a lot of "Oops All Spells" decks. The Spy/Informer version is particularly viable (I'd say around Tier 1.5-2) because it dodges Force of Negation and Karn, the Great Creator completely.
More good news for Tibalt's Trickery: you have to hit a spell with a different name from the one you just countered, so they'll never get the precise same win con out of this!
If I just had to put a counterspell in a red deck, and only had room for one, I still think I'd chose Mages' Contest most of the time over Tibalt's Trickery. However, they both have their situational +'s and -'s. Perhaps I'll start messing with everyone and run 'em both in my mono-reds. I suppose it'd be no more or less surprising than Withering Boon is in a black deck.
Because Wizards loves their randomness. See Haktos the Unscarred or Crystalline Golem. The randomness is supposed to be fun. And to an extent it is from a casual point of view. On average your looking at 1.5 cards milled. This can also screw over btw cards that tutor and put that card on top of their library such as Vampiric Tutor.
I love randomness and I do play those two cards. But in Haktos and Crystalline Golem's cases, that randomness has a purpose. Here, it is just used in the middle of a paragraph to basically act like a shuffle. It makes the card harder to read and to understand, which is not good for the casual crowd.
If they wanted to prevent abuse, they could have just prevented you from targeting your own spells, or just made the spell's controller shuffle their library (there is already 9 spoiled cards that make you shuffle after all, so why not this one too?). At worst, you can even just exile 4 or 5 cards rather than a random number, I don't think many cards can let you plan past that number. The card is fun though, don't get me wrong, it's just needlessly complex.
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Sorry for my possible english mistakes, I'm not a native speaker.
I dunno about Divine Gambit... everyone is bashing the card really, really hard, I think it might not be that ridiculously bad
but it's not like your opponent will always have a bomb on hand, or even something better than the stuff in the battlefield.
hell, if his hand is empty, then it's awesome removal.
just don't play it targeting the 2 drops and don't play the full playset, it might come in handy.
I dunno about Divine Gambit... everyone is bashing the card really, really hard, I think it might not be that ridiculously bad
but it's not like your opponent will always have a bomb on hand, or even something better than the stuff in the battlefield.
hell, if his hand is empty, then it's awesome removal.
just don't play it targeting the 2 drops and don't play the full playset, it might come in handy.
the problem is your giving that opponent a free show and tell and it’s slightly better than show and tell because planeswalkers are in the mix so T2 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon for your opponent in standard if you play it
I dunno about Divine Gambit... everyone is bashing the card really, really hard, I think it might not be that ridiculously bad
but it's not like your opponent will always have a bomb on hand, or even something better than the stuff in the battlefield.
hell, if his hand is empty, then it's awesome removal.
just don't play it targeting the 2 drops and don't play the full playset, it might come in handy.
the problem is your giving that opponent a free show and tell and it’s slightly better than show and tell because planeswalkers are in the mix so T2 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon for your opponent in standard if you play it
no.... the problem is that everyone just analyses the card assuming 2 very imporant things....
1- the player playing it is a complete moron that will cast it on turn 2. (and yeah, if you do and they Ugin you, there's just one player to blame... you.)
2- the moron's opponent always has an almighty bomb in hand.
once you realize that neither of those are true (specially 1... because 2 might), then the card instantly becomes a lot better.
not saying that everyone will play 4 of those, and I don 't think anyone should... this is a card you want to draw later, to deal with the 6drop, not on your starting hand to deal with the 2drop.
but people are evaluating this card like it's Razor Boomerang or something, because it's always magical christmasland to the opponent.
I feel like Divine Gambit's theme and flavor text are better suited for Theros than Norse Myth.
It's based on hnefatafl, a viking board game where the king is surrounded by an invading army.
There are two to four times as many enemy pieces, so there's a chance removing a piece will result in a worse position. But the king doesn't win by capturing enemy pieces, but by escaping the board. All the king (or god, as the case may be) needs is an out.
While the game favors the defense, it's generally difficult for the king's side to capture a piece. Gods, however, have an easier time picking off mortals. They just have to be careful who else's attention they attract when they aren't indestructible themselves.
It could probably be reflavored to Theros with some work, but most of the Therosian gods have pretty one-sided interactions, even with each other.
Because Wizards loves their randomness. See Haktos the Unscarred or Crystalline Golem. The randomness is supposed to be fun. And to an extent it is from a casual point of view. On average your looking at 1.5 cards milled. This can also screw over btw cards that tutor and put that card on top of their library such as Vampiric Tutor.
I love randomness and I do play those two cards. But in Haktos and Crystalline Golem's cases, that randomness has a purpose. Here, it is just used in the middle of a paragraph to basically act like a shuffle. It makes the card harder to read and to understand, which is not good for the casual crowd.
If they wanted to prevent abuse, they could have just prevented you from targeting your own spells, or just made the spell's controller shuffle their library (there is already 9 spoiled cards that make you shuffle after all, so why not this one too?). At worst, you can even just exile 4 or 5 cards rather than a random number, I don't think many cards can let you plan past that number. The card is fun though, don't get me wrong, it's just needlessly complex.
Agreed completely. One more shuffle effect on a rare is not a reasonable justification for this weird milling thing.
I feel like Divine Gambit's theme and flavor text are better suited for Theros than Norse Myth.
It's based on hnefatafl, a viking board game where the king is surrounded by an invading army.
There are two to four times as many enemy pieces, so there's a chance removing a piece will result in a worse position. But the king doesn't win by capturing enemy pieces, but by escaping the board. All the king (or god, as the case may be) needs is an out.
While the game favors the defense, it's generally difficult for the king's side to capture a piece. Gods, however, have an easier time picking off mortals. They just have to be careful who else's attention they attract when they aren't indestructible themselves.
Turns out that Tibalt's Trickery can let you cast random fatties from your deck (or whiff) through 3-mana Cascade spells in an Extended Hypergenesis-like shell.
Turns out that Tibalt's Trickery can let you cast random fatties from your deck (or whiff) through 3-mana Cascade spells in an Extended Hypergenesis-like shell.
Sure, but you'll just end up getting a spell at random from your deck. This can already be achieved by cards like Unexpected Results or polymorph effects.
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Sorry for my possible english mistakes, I'm not a native speaker.
Turns out that Tibalt's Trickery can let you cast random fatties from your deck (or whiff) through 3-mana Cascade spells in an Extended Hypergenesis-like shell.
Sure, but you'll just end up getting a spell at random from your deck. This can already be achieved by cards like Unexpected Results or polymorph effects.
The main advantage of Cascade Tibalt's Trickery is that you can cast Emrakul, the Aeons Torn, and casting it/her lets you speed up the clock by one valuable turn - possibly enough to outrace Oops All Spells, say.
Cascade spells costing 3 mana also means that a Turn 2 Emrakul (or other fatty) is not unrealistic, at the cost of putting in 4 more whiffs into your deck (Simian Spirit Guide).
Turns out that Tibalt's Trickery can let you cast random fatties from your deck (or whiff) through 3-mana Cascade spells in an Extended Hypergenesis-like shell.
Sure, but you'll just end up getting a spell at random from your deck. This can already be achieved by cards like Unexpected Results or polymorph effects.
I mean, Tibalt's Trickery was obviously a polymorph effect, but sure. The way Trickery is worded just wants to avoid shuffling, because the community would have called "shuffle target spell into your library" as another counterspell without thinking again.
Turns out that Tibalt's Trickery can let you cast random fatties from your deck (or whiff) through 3-mana Cascade spells in an Extended Hypergenesis-like shell.
Sure, but you'll just end up getting a spell at random from your deck. This can already be achieved by cards like Unexpected Results or polymorph effects.
The main advantage of Cascade Tibalt's Trickery is that you can cast Emrakul, the Aeons Torn, and casting it/her lets you speed up the clock by one valuable turn - possibly enough to outrace Oops All Spells, say.
Cascade spells costing 3 mana also means that a Turn 2 Emrakul (or other fatty) is not unrealistic, at the cost of putting in 4 more whiffs into your deck (Simian Spirit Guide).
Is Simian Spirit Guide the only nonland card in the deck other than the cascade spell, Emrakul and Tibalt's Trickery? What if Tibalt's Trickery ends up letting you cast another Tibalt's Trickery? It seems clunky to me, but maybe there is something I don't see.
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Sorry for my possible english mistakes, I'm not a native speaker.
Turns out that Tibalt's Trickery can let you cast random fatties from your deck (or whiff) through 3-mana Cascade spells in an Extended Hypergenesis-like shell.
Sure, but you'll just end up getting a spell at random from your deck. This can already be achieved by cards like Unexpected Results or polymorph effects.
The main advantage of Cascade Tibalt's Trickery is that you can cast Emrakul, the Aeons Torn, and casting it/her lets you speed up the clock by one valuable turn - possibly enough to outrace Oops All Spells, say.
Cascade spells costing 3 mana also means that a Turn 2 Emrakul (or other fatty) is not unrealistic, at the cost of putting in 4 more whiffs into your deck (Simian Spirit Guide).
Is Simian Spirit Guide the only nonland card in the deck other than the cascade spell, Emrakul and Tibalt's Trickery? What if Tibalt's Trickery ends up letting you cast another Tibalt's Trickery? It seems clunky to me, but maybe there is something I don't see.
Tibalt's Trickery already whiffs if it hits itself, so I still need to increase the percentage of good hits with other fatties - i.e. SSG is not the only nonland card in the deck that isn't a Cascade spell, is not named Tibalt's Trickery, and does not have Emrakul in its name. On average, you can count on casting at least 2 Cascade spells per game.
Turns out that Tibalt's Trickery can let you cast random fatties from your deck (or whiff) through 3-mana Cascade spells in an Extended Hypergenesis-like shell.
I see you saw the recent Magic Aids video showing how it can quite easily bring out an eldrazi titan by turn 2 sometimes.
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That seems awfully specific, why not just mill the top 3 or 4 cards immediately then?
Even as a "fair mono-red counterspell with a downside", I can easily see this saving the butts of so many Modern players hitting an opposing Ad Nauseam with it, as that deck is so spell-dense that chances are the opponent will hit anything but Ad Nauseam.
For maximum comedy value, hit an opponent's "Oops All Spells" win con (Goblin Charbelcher, Undercity Informer, Balustrade Spy) with it.
If you can rig your library to have 3 lands and your desired card on top, Tibalt's Trickery will still let you cast your desired card.
I would pay money to watch that game.
I've been waiting for a white Abrupt Decay for 2 years, this is what I get. Gotta wait for a bit longer I guess.
If Tibalt's Trickery sees play in Modern, expect to see it go up against a lot of "Oops All Spells" decks. The Spy/Informer version is particularly viable (I'd say around Tier 1.5-2) because it dodges Force of Negation and Karn, the Great Creator completely.
More good news for Tibalt's Trickery: you have to hit a spell with a different name from the one you just countered, so they'll never get the precise same win con out of this!
I wasn't aware this card existed, thanks
Modern : Solemnity Prison Martyr Proc Devotion to Green 8 Whacks Eldrazi Processor Bogles Landfall Aggro
Legacy : Goblins
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Kenessos, Priest of Thassa (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||
I love randomness and I do play those two cards. But in Haktos and Crystalline Golem's cases, that randomness has a purpose. Here, it is just used in the middle of a paragraph to basically act like a shuffle. It makes the card harder to read and to understand, which is not good for the casual crowd.
If they wanted to prevent abuse, they could have just prevented you from targeting your own spells, or just made the spell's controller shuffle their library (there is already 9 spoiled cards that make you shuffle after all, so why not this one too?). At worst, you can even just exile 4 or 5 cards rather than a random number, I don't think many cards can let you plan past that number. The card is fun though, don't get me wrong, it's just needlessly complex.
but it's not like your opponent will always have a bomb on hand, or even something better than the stuff in the battlefield.
hell, if his hand is empty, then it's awesome removal.
just don't play it targeting the 2 drops and don't play the full playset, it might come in handy.
the problem is your giving that opponent a free show and tell and it’s slightly better than show and tell because planeswalkers are in the mix so T2 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon for your opponent in standard if you play it
1- the player playing it is a complete moron that will cast it on turn 2. (and yeah, if you do and they Ugin you, there's just one player to blame... you.)
2- the moron's opponent always has an almighty bomb in hand.
once you realize that neither of those are true (specially 1... because 2 might), then the card instantly becomes a lot better.
not saying that everyone will play 4 of those, and I don 't think anyone should... this is a card you want to draw later, to deal with the 6drop, not on your starting hand to deal with the 2drop.
but people are evaluating this card like it's Razor Boomerang or something, because it's always magical christmasland to the opponent.
It's based on hnefatafl, a viking board game where the king is surrounded by an invading army.
There are two to four times as many enemy pieces, so there's a chance removing a piece will result in a worse position. But the king doesn't win by capturing enemy pieces, but by escaping the board. All the king (or god, as the case may be) needs is an out.
While the game favors the defense, it's generally difficult for the king's side to capture a piece. Gods, however, have an easier time picking off mortals. They just have to be careful who else's attention they attract when they aren't indestructible themselves.
It could probably be reflavored to Theros with some work, but most of the Therosian gods have pretty one-sided interactions, even with each other.
Agreed completely. One more shuffle effect on a rare is not a reasonable justification for this weird milling thing.
Very cool, thanks for the explanation!
Sure, but you'll just end up getting a spell at random from your deck. This can already be achieved by cards like Unexpected Results or polymorph effects.
The main advantage of Cascade Tibalt's Trickery is that you can cast Emrakul, the Aeons Torn, and casting it/her lets you speed up the clock by one valuable turn - possibly enough to outrace Oops All Spells, say.
Cascade spells costing 3 mana also means that a Turn 2 Emrakul (or other fatty) is not unrealistic, at the cost of putting in 4 more whiffs into your deck (Simian Spirit Guide).
Is Simian Spirit Guide the only nonland card in the deck other than the cascade spell, Emrakul and Tibalt's Trickery? What if Tibalt's Trickery ends up letting you cast another Tibalt's Trickery? It seems clunky to me, but maybe there is something I don't see.
Tibalt's Trickery already whiffs if it hits itself, so I still need to increase the percentage of good hits with other fatties - i.e. SSG is not the only nonland card in the deck that isn't a Cascade spell, is not named Tibalt's Trickery, and does not have Emrakul in its name. On average, you can count on casting at least 2 Cascade spells per game.
I see you saw the recent Magic Aids video showing how it can quite easily bring out an eldrazi titan by turn 2 sometimes.