Phyrexians are just written to be too OP. Unless I'm greatly misunderstanding them, literally all they need to do is put one drop of oil on a plane, and it will eventually turn into another Phyrexia. And their only weakness is supposed to be that they can't planeswalk, but now that's out the window too. They basically can neither be reasoned with nor destroyed.
(Incidentally, one thing I've never been sure about...is the first syllable pronounced with a schwa, or does it rhyme with "high"?)
Phyrexia doesn't necessarily dominate every world it infects. Mirrodin had a perfect storm of qualities that made it particularly susceptible to complete Phyrexian takeover. To start, it was an all-metal world contaminated by Karn right from its creation; the oil mixed with the metal to create the mycosynth, which affected all life on the plane, causing metal and flesh to blend in Mirrodin's organisms. After centuries, the mycosynth infection reached the plane's manacore and the Phyrexians finally burst forth to take over. Mirrodin succumbed to a cancer that was baked into its very DNA.
Other worlds, by their very nature, are more resistant to Phyrexian corruption. They have immune systems to fight it. In fact, this was a source of frustration to Yawgmoth in the early stages of the Phyrexian Invasion of Dominaria, when Yavamaya and Lanowar Forests shrugged off Phyrexia's initial assaults. The world itself raised up armies, champions, and new magics to fight back, so much so that Yawgmoth became convinced that his true opponent wasn't even Urza, but the worldsoul Gaea herself.
Phyrexia eventually regained the upper hand and nearly attained total victory, but this required both the overlay of the plane of Rath onto Dominaria, and Yawgmoth himself crossing over to annihilate the world. Until those things happened, the Phyrexian Invasion was a bloody meat-grinder that cost millions of lives on both sides, but failed to break Dominaria's defenses.
Hey Mark, got an unconventional(hmm good Unset name idea..) question for you about watermarks(such as the guilds in Ravnica or the set symbols from Masters 25):
How many cards in a set does it take to make using the watermark a worthwhile effort?
It’s more about theming and factioning than a set number, but in general, I think you need at least ten to fifteen cards needing a watermark before we’d even think about it.
This would seem to indicate we can expect a good ten or so phyrexian cards, though I think this set might be a good example of the kind of exception that is covered under that 'in general' clause.
I find it weird that people think this is ruining Kaldheim.
You are now invested in the fate of Kaldheim. You don't want the plane to fall to the phyrexians. There are now real stakes. You are emotionally involved.
This is a good thing, story telling wise. Was Lord of the Rings ruined for you when Frodo left the shire and came in contact with the Nazgul for the first time and there was now the real possibility that he could die or be injured?
I don't get this. The magic multiverse is way too much a museum of planes rather than an ecosystem of planes as it is. More interconnectivity and agents for change are a good thing in my book. (And we all know that if enough people like Kaldheim, it will not fall to the phyrexians because brand beats storytelling.)
I am less emotionally invested honestly. So you’re not really making an accurate prediction of what people are like. Further now that place is inevitably less Kaldheim, which makes me less invested as well.
I find it weird that people think this is ruining Kaldheim.
You are now invested in the fate of Kaldheim. You don't want the plane to fall to the phyrexians. There are now real stakes. You are emotionally involved.
This is a good thing, story telling wise. Was Lord of the Rings ruined for you when Frodo left the shire and came in contact with the Nazgul for the first time and there was now the real possibility that he could die or be injured?
I don't get this. The magic multiverse is way too much a museum of planes rather than an ecosystem of planes as it is. More interconnectivity and agents for change are a good thing in my book. (And we all know that if enough people like Kaldheim, it will not fall to the phyrexians because brand beats storytelling.)
Except we dont know kaldheim.
Im not invested in it at all. I havent seen it grow and develop. I havent watched its characters do anything. Theres no connection to the plane yet so caring about its future is almost moot.
You guys say you don't know Kaldheim to care about its future but that doesn't seem to be the case as we have multiple people complaining about how it's ruined because at least one phyrexian is involved.
Actually it seems like you guys are already pretty invested and care a lot.
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You guys say you don't know Kaldheim to care about its future but that doesn't seem to be the case as we have multiple people complaining about how it's ruined because at least one phyrexian is involved.
Actually it seems like you guys are already pretty invested and care a lot.
maybe each praetor has found a plane that suits them to try and rule? the sets don't have to be set around one plane anymore do they? so we could see a secret invasion of sorts.
i don't think teasing phyrexian presence means the plane is for sure a goner. these aren't your dad's phyrexians.
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Your authoritarianism will be the reason the company suffers another 60M in losses.
You guys say you don't know Kaldheim to care about its future but that doesn't seem to be the case as we have multiple people complaining about how it's ruined because at least one phyrexian is involved.
Actually it seems like you guys are already pretty invested and care a lot.
I actually like Vorniclex being here. I think it’s pretty cool but I also believe youre misinterpreting the complaints you’re describing. I don’t think people are invested in the plane but rather the potential the plane had in their minds. And they’re feeling that the alien praetor takes away from that potential.
Again, I’m not one of them, but that’s how I’ve been reading the comments.
You guys say you don't know Kaldheim to care about its future but that doesn't seem to be the case as we have multiple people complaining about how it's ruined because at least one phyrexian is involved.
Actually it seems like you guys are already pretty invested and care a lot.
I actually like Vorniclex being here. I think it’s pretty cool but I also believe youre misinterpreting the complaints you’re describing. I don’t think people are invested in the plane but rather the potential the plane had in their minds. And they’re feeling that the alien praetor takes away from that potential.
Again, I’m not one of them, but that’s how I’ve been reading the comments.
yep, you nailed it.
that's exactly my feeling and one shared with several friends.
if its done right, phyrexians here will be fine, cool even, but for now its jarring and undermining. it has the potential to subvert expectations in a negative way, and it also has the potential not to. we just need more information, but given storytelling the past several years... well.
Look at it this way: If you HAVE to have Phyrexians on your plane, Vorinclex and his faction are probably the least bad. He has no grand plan. He just wants to hunt, kill, eat and for the strong to dominate the weak. He is incredibly dangerous, yes, but not insidious in the way Norn or Gitaxias would be.
We as players know he is the herald of a much bigger threat, but to the people of Kaldheim, he is the same as any other dangerous monster. They probably think he is a demon, a troll or just an unknown horror from the depths of the world. (And I agree with whoever compared him to Beowulf's Grendel.)
I'm not convinced that the token card is another praetor. If it was, I would think it would use the cleaner "twice/half" template. "Create X" would have to have extra text to define X, and then would still have to have another ability to reduce opponents' token production. Seems overly wordy.
oh I know but I have another theory one why elesh norn could be there too besides the teaser
In the mythology of Norse there’s literally a mythological creature called Norns
I think if the phyrexian invasion plays out as some have speculated and shows them scouting and corrupting many planes it will be interesting to see the phyrexian corruption of different creatures on different planes. How a phyrexian-corrupted elemental from Zendikar or werewolf from Innistrad or god from theros may look very different than the common phyrexians of mirrodin or even the praetors.
It's exciting to think what other praetors originating on other planes could look like. If we see a phyrexian corruption of some of the realms of Kaldheim with Vorinclex there, we may see new praetors evolve into being there. If Jin Gitaxias is on Strixhaven we may see new Strixhaven praetors evolve into being and their appearance and abilities may be very different than what we've seen so far. This is an area of phyrexian desing I'd love to see WotC's take on.
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The invasion of Vorinclex may be represented in a saga if soo i could bet it will be the UG one, as some of the sagas cares for creature type they could ask for Phyrexian type for one of the effects, the UG tribe (shapeshifters) has changeling soo yeah more Phyrexians for limited... If soo, would be nice if the last chapter is a tutoring ability that asks for a Phyrexian creature
Honestly, with Phyrexia scouting out new territories to conquer,
I wouldn’t worry about Kaldheim—
worry about Kaladesh
I would love to see more of Kaladesh sooner rather than later. It's my favourite plane from a visual point and would definitely be something Phyrexians would love to get a hold of.
Ghirapur has artifice, yes, but the rest of the Plane? Not as much, and then there's the Aether to consider.
Ghirapur also has the inventor of the planar bridge, so yeah I'd be pretty worried about Phyrexians getting to this plane and gaining access to more of its technology.
Honestly, with Phyrexia scouting out new territories to conquer,
I wouldn’t worry about Kaldheim—
worry about Kaladesh
I'm 95% certain we will see a Phyrexian incursion into Kaladesh at some point. That plain would be such an irresistible prize; it's almost tailor-made for Phyrexian interests and ripe for Phyrexian conquest. We will see raiding at least.
Apologies if this has already been asked, but does Vorinclex work like Pir, Imaginative Rascal? If I have a planeswalker enter the battlefield will the loyalty counters get doubled? Also, if I uptick a planeswalker, will the amount of loyalty counters added to it get doubled?
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Phyrexia doesn't necessarily dominate every world it infects. Mirrodin had a perfect storm of qualities that made it particularly susceptible to complete Phyrexian takeover. To start, it was an all-metal world contaminated by Karn right from its creation; the oil mixed with the metal to create the mycosynth, which affected all life on the plane, causing metal and flesh to blend in Mirrodin's organisms. After centuries, the mycosynth infection reached the plane's manacore and the Phyrexians finally burst forth to take over. Mirrodin succumbed to a cancer that was baked into its very DNA.
Other worlds, by their very nature, are more resistant to Phyrexian corruption. They have immune systems to fight it. In fact, this was a source of frustration to Yawgmoth in the early stages of the Phyrexian Invasion of Dominaria, when Yavamaya and Lanowar Forests shrugged off Phyrexia's initial assaults. The world itself raised up armies, champions, and new magics to fight back, so much so that Yawgmoth became convinced that his true opponent wasn't even Urza, but the worldsoul Gaea herself.
Phyrexia eventually regained the upper hand and nearly attained total victory, but this required both the overlay of the plane of Rath onto Dominaria, and Yawgmoth himself crossing over to annihilate the world. Until those things happened, the Phyrexian Invasion was a bloody meat-grinder that cost millions of lives on both sides, but failed to break Dominaria's defenses.
https://markrosewater.tumblr.com/post/638595481981894656/hey-mark-got-an-unconventionalhmm-good-unset#notes
This would seem to indicate we can expect a good ten or so phyrexian cards, though I think this set might be a good example of the kind of exception that is covered under that 'in general' clause.
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I am less emotionally invested honestly. So you’re not really making an accurate prediction of what people are like. Further now that place is inevitably less Kaldheim, which makes me less invested as well.
Except we dont know kaldheim.
Im not invested in it at all. I havent seen it grow and develop. I havent watched its characters do anything. Theres no connection to the plane yet so caring about its future is almost moot.
Actually it seems like you guys are already pretty invested and care a lot.
Haters gonna hate.
i don't think teasing phyrexian presence means the plane is for sure a goner. these aren't your dad's phyrexians.
but not all worlds will meet their criteria.
I actually like Vorniclex being here. I think it’s pretty cool but I also believe youre misinterpreting the complaints you’re describing. I don’t think people are invested in the plane but rather the potential the plane had in their minds. And they’re feeling that the alien praetor takes away from that potential.
Again, I’m not one of them, but that’s how I’ve been reading the comments.
yep, you nailed it.
that's exactly my feeling and one shared with several friends.
if its done right, phyrexians here will be fine, cool even, but for now its jarring and undermining. it has the potential to subvert expectations in a negative way, and it also has the potential not to. we just need more information, but given storytelling the past several years... well.
We as players know he is the herald of a much bigger threat, but to the people of Kaldheim, he is the same as any other dangerous monster. They probably think he is a demon, a troll or just an unknown horror from the depths of the world. (And I agree with whoever compared him to Beowulf's Grendel.)
If we get a Beowulf character and Vorinclex is slayen, well that would be big.
The phyrexian oil could spread slowly and in secret, without a big invasion of the plane, and the "heroes" could have their victory.
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oh I know but I have another theory one why elesh norn could be there too besides the teaser
In the mythology of Norse there’s literally a mythological creature called Norns
I wouldn’t worry about Kaldheim—
worry about Kaladesh
Yeah they can definitely corrupt kaladesh without breaking a sweet it's almost as artifact as Mirridon is
Ghirapur has artifice, yes, but the rest of the Plane? Not as much, and then there's the Aether to consider.
Shards of awful never
It's exciting to think what other praetors originating on other planes could look like. If we see a phyrexian corruption of some of the realms of Kaldheim with Vorinclex there, we may see new praetors evolve into being there. If Jin Gitaxias is on Strixhaven we may see new Strixhaven praetors evolve into being and their appearance and abilities may be very different than what we've seen so far. This is an area of phyrexian desing I'd love to see WotC's take on.
I would love to see more of Kaladesh sooner rather than later. It's my favourite plane from a visual point and would definitely be something Phyrexians would love to get a hold of.
Ghirapur also has the inventor of the planar bridge, so yeah I'd be pretty worried about Phyrexians getting to this plane and gaining access to more of its technology.
I'm 95% certain we will see a Phyrexian incursion into Kaladesh at some point. That plain would be such an irresistible prize; it's almost tailor-made for Phyrexian interests and ripe for Phyrexian conquest. We will see raiding at least.
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Shards of awful never