To my understanding, the point of the Snow supertype was to denote entities or magics that were permeated by the magic of the Ice Age. Of course, the Ice Age was started by the Sylex blast, which shifted the weather patterns, but the magics of the blast created The Shard and permeated the planes, creating the ice Age. Originally (in the Ice Age set) it was just the Snow Covered Lands, and then mechanics referencing those, but with the retcon created by Coldsnap I believe the intent was that things birthed of the Ice Age, and the magics that kept it going a supernaturally prolonged time, had the quality of being imbued with the magic of ice, cold, and Snow. Even the retconned mechanical flavor of mana having the quality of Snow plays into this. The idea that the mana itself is warped and chilled by the magics of the Ice Age and is now able to fuel those magics and perpetuate them is very flavorfully aligned with the idea that the Snow supertype no longer denotes something simply covered in snow, but something that's been thoroughly steeped in the magics of frost, rime, and pure cold.
I mean, with 10 realms, it would be cool for the frost giants to be from a Snow fueled plain, but then you'd need Snow Lands aligned with just that realm, which is logistically daunting. I mean, they do frequently do art for different lands that each tie to a realm (when they have different nations, shards, etc.), but to have just 1, maybe 2, islands with the Surtland artwork have the Snow supertype would be a nightmare in draft (and I say this as someone who espouses the idea that Magic should be made for the home players first, and tournament and collector considerations should be a distant 97th place)(also totally guessing that the 10 realms may tie to the different tribes, which each appear to be two color, so each realm will likely feature on 1 land of each of the appropriate types, but that is very unfounded conjecture). I would not be surprised if they considered Snow, and then ran into these logistical issues and sidelined it. Also possible is that they did in fact fully support Snow, but it is for only 1 (or maybe a few) realms and it just isn't that large a component of the set and we've yet to see it.
Edit - Just adding a though. Maybe now that we are thoroughly in the 1 Set Block, with a new plane almost every set design ethos (at least I recall this being a set that from start to finish was part of that, as were the last few since Dominaria if I am indeed remembering correctly), Kaldheim may be designed with a "Return to Kaldheim" in mind already and we'll only see a few of the Realms this visit. It's possible we'll see a different mix of a few Realms each visit and on a future visit to Kaldheim we'll get the Snow Realms.
All of these cards reference something incredibly snowy and icy and some even showed up in sets with the Snow Mechanic, and only 3 of them are even Snow related. Ice and snow and glaciers, even Cloud Glaciers do not necessarily mean snow is on the card, let alone the set.
And that is just the trademark inconsistency but with different reasons for different eras of design. ThyLordQ, this segement is more just addressing why there can be these expectations with a currently 25-year old mechanic.
Era 1: Original Ice Age and Alliances. They were scattershot with their interpretation of what basics should be considered Snow and which shouldn't. In addition they didn't apply this same factor to nonbasics, creatures, enchantments, artifacts. This due in part to how the snow type was like a rider for basic. But also the inconsistency stems from an early era of Wizards in which they more green in how to go about designing consistency for a set. Era 2: The sets leading up to Coldsnap. There is not much to say other than they likely didn't want to spoil the surprise of snow with any winter-themed cards. Era 3: Coldsnap itself. There is actually a good reason not every card is snow. Where Ice Age and Alliances was in the thick of a full blown ice age that we would later learn was caused by Urza in the novels, this is the thawing period of the ice age instead. Surely with a mechanic they have now fleshed out with its own mana symbol and supertype this would get used more. Era 4 and 5: Post-Coldsnap and Post-Modern Horizons. This is where you have to wonder Wizard's motivations and why the inconsistency of what is and what isn't snow or what cares about snow. (Quick comparison: Winter's Chill and Icy Blast)
To my understanding, the point of the Snow supertype was to denote entities or magics that were permeated by the magic of the Ice Age. Of course, the Ice Age was started by the Sylex blast, which shifted the weather patterns, but the magics of the blast created The Shard and permeated the planes, creating the ice Age. Originally (in the Ice Age set) it was just the Snow Covered Lands, and then mechanics referencing those, but with the retcon created by Coldsnap I believe the intent was that things birthed of the Ice Age, and the magics that kept it going a supernaturally prolonged time, had the quality of being imbued with the magic of ice, cold, and Snow. Even the retconned mechanical flavor of mana having the quality of Snow plays into this. The idea that the mana itself is warped and chilled by the magics of the Ice Age and is now able to fuel those magics and perpetuate them is very flavorfully aligned with the idea that the Snow supertype no longer denotes something simply covered in snow, but something that's been thoroughly steeped in the magics of frost, rhyme, and pure cold.
I mean, with 10 realms, it would be cool for the frost giants to be from a Snow fueled plain, but then you'd need Snow Lands aligned with just that realm, which is logistically daunting. I mean, they do frequently do art for different lands that each tie to a realm (when they have different nations, shards, etc.), but to have just 1, maybe 2, islands with the Surtland artwork have the Snow supertype would be a nightmare in draft (and I say this as someone who espouses the idea that Magic should be made for the home players first, and tournament and collector considerations should be a distant 97th place)(also totally guessing that the 10 realms may tie to the different tribes, which each appear to be two color, so each realm will likely feature on 1 land of each of the appropriate types, but that is very unfounded conjecture). I would not be surprised if they considered Snow, and then ran into these logistical issues and sidelined it. Also possible is that they did in fact fully support Snow, but it is for only 1 (or maybe a few) realms and it just isn't that large a component of the set and we've yet to see it.
Edit - Just adding a though. Maybe now that we are thoroughly in the 1 Set Block, with a new plane almost every set design ethos (at least I recall this being a set that from start to finish was part of that, as were the last few since Dominaria if I am indeed remembering correctly), Kaldheim may be designed with a "Return to Kaldheim" in mind already and we'll only see a few of the Realms this visit. It's possible we'll see a different mix of a few Realms each visit and on a future visit to Kaldheim we'll get the Snow Realms.
This account smells like a MTG designer casually explaining to everyone why the snow mechanic wouldn't be in the set... lol
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This account smells like a MTG designer casually explaining to everyone why the snow mechanic wouldn't be in the set... lol
I wish! I would love to be a professional game designer. I'm just long time player (a friend bought a starter set back in '94 and we'd play all the time as kids) who really loves the flavor of the game. Oddly, not much for following story outside of the Wiki summary sections, though.
Frankly, I wish it was in the set; I love the idea of mana having different qualities and wish it was used more (also, would love to see more than just Snow and Phyrexian mana), but I would get why they didn't include it.
This account smells like a MTG designer casually explaining to everyone why the snow mechanic wouldn't be in the set... lol
I wish! I would love to be a professional game designer. I'm just long time player (a friend bought a starter set back in '94 and we'd play all the time as kids) who really loves the flavor of the game. Oddly, not much for following story outside of the Wiki summary sections, though.
Frankly, I wish it was in the set; I love the idea of mana having different qualities and wish it was used more (also, would love to see more than just Snow and Phyrexian mana), but I would get why they didn't include it.
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Hefty knowledge of snow in MTG
You used a semicolon and sufficient punctuation on the internet.
Gig is up my man, lol.
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As I said before, I really do understand why people would make that assumption. My issue is less the assumption itself and more the idea of Snow being absent being treated like a personal attack.
(On a semi-related topic, this is why I really dislike marketing and the hype based drip-feed reveal model. If a group has even the slightest expectation it turns into something that might happen to something that will definitely happen and in turn leads to...a lot of unnecessary arguments.)
I think part of the inconsistency is for similar reasons to the issue of Tribal cards. Tribal X would certainly make sense in a lot of places on a lot of cards. Too many, in fact. Snow is in a similar boat. It can't be evergreen, but the mechanic wants to be, very very badly.
As I said before, I really do understand why people would make that assumption. My issue is less the assumption itself and more the idea of Snow being absent being treated like a personal attack.
(On a semi-related topic, this is why I really dislike marketing and the hype based drip-feed reveal model. If a group has even the slightest expectation it turns into something that might happen to something that will definitely happen and in turn leads to...a lot of unnecessary arguments.)
I think part of the inconsistency is for similar reasons to the issue of Tribal cards. Tribal X would certainly make sense in a lot of places on a lot of cards. Too many, in fact. Snow is in a similar boat. It can't be evergreen, but the mechanic wants to be, very very badly.
Your good on the subject matter of snow.
Also I do concur that the drip-feed method is honestly why I choose to usually not pay attention to the spoiler season. Not only does it make for unnecessary arguments but it also creates rampant buyouts because the players don't have the best information at their disposal. (See Dwarven Bloodboiler and Winter's Night both spiking hard this spoiler season). In addition while some might bemoan it, I actually rather liked the New Phyrexia godbook leak. One could view the whole set at once and get a better idea of what one would want and could expect.
Also your not wrong at all when it comes to be with Tribal (see Elvish Promenade and Elven Ambush for no better for a comparison). Within the sphere of this discussion there has been also talk of Rebels with Kaldheim for example, not because Kaldheim actually has Rebel creatures or cards that directly support the tribe or some baseless speculation, but because of the simple card Pyre of Heroes. Simply because Wizards is extra cautious not to print Rebel cards just like they are extra cautious not to print any cards with the Tribal supertype.
EDIT: It also doesn't mean there isn't, to cut that off at the pass. My goal here is not to convince anyone that snow definitely isn't happening. I just don't want people to jump to conclusions and get upset if that conclusion isn't met.
I mean... if you don't want people to jump to conclusion, don't put a ******* lot of snow and nothing else in your plane image. If you put only snow, people will expect snow.
People had just snow as clue for a lot of time. Snow returned in MH and performed good. It's natural that people expect it. If you don't want people to expect snow, don't use Kaldheim
How i feel about competitive players and casual players in EDH: The competitive are german tourists, the casual are italian tourists, both in a italian beach. The italians asking themselves "why are the germans here?" make a legitimate question, the answer is because the beach is beautiful, no matter the country you came from. The italians wanting to ban the germans are dumb, because if the germans pay for their stay and follow the rules like everyone else, they have the right to be in the beach. Hovewer, if the germans started to ask themselves "why are the italians here?"... they would be dumb as hell.
Lathril, Blade of the Elves: unluckily, there are two things that ruin this creature.
(1) Constitution being 3 makes Lathril a walking "lightning rod" from Lightning Bolt et similia;
(2) The activated ability suffers from summoning sickness and requires too many Elves to work.
===> it isn't playable at all as a finisher in Elves/Druid lists.
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I mean, with 10 realms, it would be cool for the frost giants to be from a Snow fueled plain, but then you'd need Snow Lands aligned with just that realm, which is logistically daunting. I mean, they do frequently do art for different lands that each tie to a realm (when they have different nations, shards, etc.), but to have just 1, maybe 2, islands with the Surtland artwork have the Snow supertype would be a nightmare in draft (and I say this as someone who espouses the idea that Magic should be made for the home players first, and tournament and collector considerations should be a distant 97th place)(also totally guessing that the 10 realms may tie to the different tribes, which each appear to be two color, so each realm will likely feature on 1 land of each of the appropriate types, but that is very unfounded conjecture). I would not be surprised if they considered Snow, and then ran into these logistical issues and sidelined it. Also possible is that they did in fact fully support Snow, but it is for only 1 (or maybe a few) realms and it just isn't that large a component of the set and we've yet to see it.
Edit - Just adding a though. Maybe now that we are thoroughly in the 1 Set Block, with a new plane almost every set design ethos (at least I recall this being a set that from start to finish was part of that, as were the last few since Dominaria if I am indeed remembering correctly), Kaldheim may be designed with a "Return to Kaldheim" in mind already and we'll only see a few of the Realms this visit. It's possible we'll see a different mix of a few Realms each visit and on a future visit to Kaldheim we'll get the Snow Realms.
And that is just the trademark inconsistency but with different reasons for different eras of design. ThyLordQ, this segement is more just addressing why there can be these expectations with a currently 25-year old mechanic.
Era 1: Original Ice Age and Alliances. They were scattershot with their interpretation of what basics should be considered Snow and which shouldn't. In addition they didn't apply this same factor to nonbasics, creatures, enchantments, artifacts. This due in part to how the snow type was like a rider for basic. But also the inconsistency stems from an early era of Wizards in which they more green in how to go about designing consistency for a set.
Era 2: The sets leading up to Coldsnap. There is not much to say other than they likely didn't want to spoil the surprise of snow with any winter-themed cards.
Era 3: Coldsnap itself. There is actually a good reason not every card is snow. Where Ice Age and Alliances was in the thick of a full blown ice age that we would later learn was caused by Urza in the novels, this is the thawing period of the ice age instead. Surely with a mechanic they have now fleshed out with its own mana symbol and supertype this would get used more.
Era 4 and 5: Post-Coldsnap and Post-Modern Horizons. This is where you have to wonder Wizard's motivations and why the inconsistency of what is and what isn't snow or what cares about snow. (Quick comparison: Winter's Chill and Icy Blast)
This account smells like a MTG designer casually explaining to everyone why the snow mechanic wouldn't be in the set... lol
THE JUICE[BOX]³ CUBE
I wish! I would love to be a professional game designer. I'm just long time player (a friend bought a starter set back in '94 and we'd play all the time as kids) who really loves the flavor of the game. Oddly, not much for following story outside of the Wiki summary sections, though.
Frankly, I wish it was in the set; I love the idea of mana having different qualities and wish it was used more (also, would love to see more than just Snow and Phyrexian mana), but I would get why they didn't include it.
Gig is up my man, lol.
THE JUICE[BOX]³ CUBE
As I said before, I really do understand why people would make that assumption. My issue is less the assumption itself and more the idea of Snow being absent being treated like a personal attack.
(On a semi-related topic, this is why I really dislike marketing and the hype based drip-feed reveal model. If a group has even the slightest expectation it turns into something that might happen to something that will definitely happen and in turn leads to...a lot of unnecessary arguments.)
I think part of the inconsistency is for similar reasons to the issue of Tribal cards. Tribal X would certainly make sense in a lot of places on a lot of cards. Too many, in fact. Snow is in a similar boat. It can't be evergreen, but the mechanic wants to be, very very badly.
Also I do concur that the drip-feed method is honestly why I choose to usually not pay attention to the spoiler season. Not only does it make for unnecessary arguments but it also creates rampant buyouts because the players don't have the best information at their disposal. (See Dwarven Bloodboiler and Winter's Night both spiking hard this spoiler season). In addition while some might bemoan it, I actually rather liked the New Phyrexia godbook leak. One could view the whole set at once and get a better idea of what one would want and could expect.
Also your not wrong at all when it comes to be with Tribal (see Elvish Promenade and Elven Ambush for no better for a comparison). Within the sphere of this discussion there has been also talk of Rebels with Kaldheim for example, not because Kaldheim actually has Rebel creatures or cards that directly support the tribe or some baseless speculation, but because of the simple card Pyre of Heroes. Simply because Wizards is extra cautious not to print Rebel cards just like they are extra cautious not to print any cards with the Tribal supertype.
I mean... if you don't want people to jump to conclusion, don't put a ******* lot of snow and nothing else in your plane image. If you put only snow, people will expect snow.
People had just snow as clue for a lot of time. Snow returned in MH and performed good. It's natural that people expect it. If you don't want people to expect snow, don't use Kaldheim
Retired EDH - Tibor and Lumia | [PR]Nemata |Ramirez dePietro | [C]Edric | Riku | Jenara | Lazav | Heliod | Daxos | Roon | Kozilek
(1) Constitution being 3 makes Lathril a walking "lightning rod" from Lightning Bolt et similia;
(2) The activated ability suffers from summoning sickness and requires too many Elves to work.
===> it isn't playable at all as a finisher in Elves/Druid lists.