I was still expecting them to be indestructible, but I was also expecting a Ragnarok type of board wipe that could get around the Gods being indestructible. Gods dying to just... well anything... is a bit of a letdown, even though the card is cool.
So it looks like he's a combination of Tyr and Freyr. And without his goodly sword, he is doomed to die during Ragnarok.
It makes sense that the gods can just die like normal creatures. I guess they're probably all equipment on the other side, though I hope maybe one or two are just artifacts.
I'm wondering if all of the flip side equipment will have the same "when equipped creature dies, return to hand" ability - that's the immortality that it grants / the god has. And almost like the grandeur ability from future sight, two copies of the god lets you play it and equip it and then it is godlike - in this case, a 6/4 vigilance double-striker that comes back when it dies.
So I guess this time the gods' legendary weapons ARE the gods.
That's interesting flavour-wise. Wonder how this will compare to other DFCs in set, will they also be creatures/equipment or perhaps creatures/auras?
I got the impression from one of the preview articles that the only double faced cards in this set are the gods and the rest of the dual land cycle. Maybe I misinterpreted it. Apparently only Strixhaven was built around the DFCs and then they were later shoehorned into both this set and Zendikar, so I wouldn't expect a ton in this set.
Is it possible that there might be more than just a 5 card cycle of gods at Mythic? Maybe we'll have have gods at lower rarity as well in different colour combinations. I could also maybe the see former elven gods getting a rare cycle or something, but I don't know if they'd still be "Creature - God" in that case.
Edit: Maro's hint of "protection from God creatures” appearing in rules text makes it seem a little more likely that there might be more than just 5 Gods
Yes nearly everyone in their pantheon dies, but always at hands of another god or being like Fenrir, Jormungandr, etc. It'll be interesting to see them dying to 4 squirrel tokens. Maybe all its Ratatoskr, his two twin brothers (huh?), and Loki disguised as Ratatoskr. Maybe a human wearing armor made of mistletoe?
Sure, but the point is they’re all mortal. It doesn’t take another God to kill them, without the apples they’d even just die of old age (I believe, I can’t recall the specifics of the apples off the top of my head). Granted, Gods in general usually aren’t immortal in mythology, and it is a rather narrow thing to try to keep in place.
My recollections of Idunn's apples agree with yours.
Reminds me of another Norse tale I read, that of Thor and Loki visiting Utgard-Loki's place. Among the feats there, Thor tries wrestling old age personified...and loses.
Soo one will be a staff and the other a Shield(or sword?)(if equipment, maybe they can also be enchantments or spells)?
Assuming they are all monocolored: R - Thor / Mjolnir U - Odin (Alrund) / Gungnir G - Heimdall (Reidane? she seems to have the horn...) / Gjallarhorn B - Loki / Laevateinn
But the WW in Halvar's mana cost does makes me wonder if we'll be getting only monos... well, that and the fact that Reidane being the G one seems very odd, she seems like a WR design.
I am not sure if we saw the same miniature. She was colorwise completely covered in blue clothing with some white and brown decorations and had blue wings. She was holding a shield and a sword (The sword handle and the shield are blue, too). I am not sure what exactly was Boros design? When I am looking at Boros Angels I see fire, Red, dual wielding swords/weapons or a two handed weapon, sometimes wearing some kind of Armor, Soldier like. Nothing of this fits Reidane (taking into account that the miniature is accurate but we don't have other information about her). She would fit black at the moment because it seems like the Valkyries are in Orzhov. Some of the Valkyrie seems to have more blueish wings (mainly the black ones). On the other hand the miniature was called Goddess of Justice which would fit White, Boros or Azorius. Maybe there are 10 Gods? 5 mono color ones with the artifact on the backside and 5 multi colored with Alrund, Reidane, snake, squirrel and the wolf or Reidane is just black but the color theme doesn't seem to reflect that.
Halvar also looks very U or even B on a first glance, since the armor in his non-showcase art and his sword are both shining bright blue and the background is a dark black. I'm pretty sure the blue-ish shine is supposed to be similar to the Nyxborn's design of Theros, but instead of a starry constellation design, godly items in Kaldheim have an aurora-colored shine.
As for B, the color as a concept is the literal antithesis of the concept of justice. B's core philosophy is being pragmatic, amoral and selfish. B could be interpreted as a color of vengeance but never one of justice. Additionally, WR soldiers using sword andshield are actuallyvery common.
Soo one will be a staff and the other a Shield(or sword?)(if equipment, maybe they can also be enchantments or spells)?
Assuming they are all monocolored: R - Thor / Mjolnir U - Odin (Alrund) / Gungnir G - Heimdall (Reidane? she seems to have the horn...) / Gjallarhorn B - Loki / Laevateinn
But the WW in Halvar's mana cost does makes me wonder if we'll be getting only monos... well, that and the fact that Reidane being the G one seems very odd, she seems like a WR design.
I am not sure if we saw the same miniature. She was colorwise completely covered in blue clothing with some white and brown decorations and had blue wings. She was holding a shield and a sword (The sword handle and the shield are blue, too). I am not sure what exactly was Boros design? When I am looking at Boros Angels I see fire, Red, dual wielding swords/weapons or a two handed weapon, sometimes wearing some kind of Armor, Soldier like. Nothing of this fits Reidane (taking into account that the miniature is accurate but we don't have other information about her). She would fit black at the moment because it seems like the Valkyries are in Orzhov
Halvar also looks very U on a first glance, since the armor in his non-showcase art and his sword are both shining bright blue. I'm pretty sure the blue-ish shine is supposed to be similar to the Nyxborn's design of Theros, but instead of a starry constellation design, godly items in Kaldheim have an aurora-colored shine.
As for B, the color as a concept is the literal antithesis of the concept of justice. B's core philosophy is being pragmatic, amoral and selfish. B could be interpreted as a color of vengeance but never one of justice. Additionally, WR soldiers using sword andshield are actuallyvery common.
I looked again on Halvar and sorry I don't see why someone should thing he is blue. He looks like a warrior has some silver ornaments and white fur around his shoulder. And everything on that picture has kind of a blueish shimmer but the source of that light is the sword. If I had to suggest a color I would say black or white (well the armor pieces on the tables influence that decision, too).
For Reidane it is a little different because we only have a painted miniature. The wings could end darker like on the picture of Rampage of the Valkyries. I don't know if this is because Angels are Mana construct (maybe Valkyries are not?) but all boros Angels have at least something red colored. Reidane has nothing. Most of them uses two weapons Anya, Merciless Angel, Aurelia, Exemplar of Justice, Gisela, Blade of Goldnight or a two handed weapon Feather, the Redeemed, Razia, Boros Archangel, Firemane Avenger. There are only 11 Boros angels and 6 are using such weapons. I don't know what Tiana, Ship's Caretaker would use and if Angelic Captain weapons could be a two handed weapon(it seems very large and kind of a Katana like sword which would make it a two handed sword, too.). Reidane has so much blueish stuff.
And I agree with you the name (Goddess of Justice) seem to be something with white but Havar is taking that place. The other option would be that she is a multicolored God, not part of this cycle and therefore not a mythic card. We will have 4 Planeswalker, 5 mono colored gods and I think there where the information of a new mechanic taking 5 mythic slots for another cycle (maybe runes or foretell?). She could represent a more selfish kind of justice (her justice). For the moment I think she will be the mono black god with the horn as a equipment on the other side *shrug*. It is likely that she is, like Eboros in Theros, related to the afterlife in Kaldheim. Maybe judging the dead if they are worth or not. And the horn is used for calling her Valkyries to take the bodies of big battles.
Edit: After thinking a little more about it, It could be that there are only 2 or 3 multicolor gods apart of the mono colored cylce.
Justice is neither boros nor azorious firstly, coz it doesn't contain neither emotion or logic before it contains pragmatism
It is orzhov.If we were talking Judjement it could be esper or even azorious.
I am kinda dissapointed the gods will be monocolored. I like they are not directly immortal but indirectly. I guess reidanne will be black alrund blue thor red and loki green.
Justice doesn't contain emotion? Justice is one of the most emotionally loaded concepts we have, apart from actual emotions.
Justice is the biggest overlap between white and red, and also the Boros' greatest internal conflict. Justice for red is internal, red bases justice on what feels right (emotion), while white bases justice on the law (order). These two perspectives clash regularly (as they do in real life) within the Boros.
Justice is less of a good fit for the other colours. Blue doesn't really care for justice either way and infact one of it's biggest internal conflicts is morality. Green believes in a right and wrong but interestingly not in justice itself. And for black there is no justice. If you are being treated bad, then you either pull yourself up by yourself or you don't. In fact I'd go so far and say justice is an antithesis to pragmatism, because at its core it deliberately does not necessarily align with what's convenient or useful, but what is just.
And for black there is no justice. If you are being treated bad, then you either pull yourself up by yourself or you don't.
For a minute there I wondered if we stopped talking about Magic cards. If you had to characterize America as just one piece of the color pie, what would it be?
Justice is neither boros nor azorious firstly, coz it doesn't contain neither emotion or logic before it contains pragmatism
It is orzhov.If we were talking Judjement it could be esper or even azorious.
I am kinda dissapointed the gods will be monocolored. I like they are not directly immortal but indirectly. I guess reidanne will be black alrund blue thor red and loki green.
Justice doesn't contain emotion? Justice is one of the most emotionally loaded concepts we have, apart from actual emotions.
Justice is the biggest overlap between white and red, and also the Boros' greatest internal conflict. Justice for red is internal, red bases justice on what feels right (emotion), while white bases justice on the law (order). These two perspectives clash regularly (as they do in real life) within the Boros.
Justice is less of a good fit for the other colours. Blue doesn't really care for justice either way and infact one of it's biggest internal conflicts is morality. Green believes in a right and wrong but interestingly not in justice itself. And for black there is no justice. If you are being treated bad, then you either pull yourself up by yourself or you don't. In fact I'd go so far and say justice is an antithesis to pragmatism, because at its core it deliberately does not necessarily align with what's convenient or useful, but what is just.
Justice is bendable. Sometimes there are situations were something is right for somebody and for anothers not. The perspective matters. We had some black cards with Justice in the Name in the past (even if the meaning were twisted). And yeah again if we talking about Justice with law enforcement for order than that's white. Red would be just emotion driven. Justice is a concept of moral rightness. And it can be based on many things (religion, equity, law, emotion, natural law, ethics or rationality). Urborg Justice Evincar's Justice Tel-Jilad Justice
Justice is neither boros nor azorious firstly, coz it doesn't contain neither emotion or logic before it contains pragmatism
It is orzhov.If we were talking Judjement it could be esper or even azorious.
I am kinda dissapointed the gods will be monocolored. I like they are not directly immortal but indirectly. I guess reidanne will be black alrund blue thor red and loki green.
Justice doesn't contain emotion? Justice is one of the most emotionally loaded concepts we have, apart from actual emotions.
Justice is the biggest overlap between white and red, and also the Boros' greatest internal conflict. Justice for red is internal, red bases justice on what feels right (emotion), while white bases justice on the law (order). These two perspectives clash regularly (as they do in real life) within the Boros.
Justice is less of a good fit for the other colours. Blue doesn't really care for justice either way and infact one of it's biggest internal conflicts is morality. Green believes in a right and wrong but interestingly not in justice itself. And for black there is no justice. If you are being treated bad, then you either pull yourself up by yourself or you don't. In fact I'd go so far and say justice is an antithesis to pragmatism, because at its core it deliberately does not necessarily align with what's convenient or useful, but what is just.
Justice is bendable. Sometimes there are situations were something is right for somebody and for anothers not. The perspective matters. We had some black cards with Justice in the Name in the past (even if the meaning were twisted). And yeah again if we talking about Justice with law enforcement for order than that's white. Red would be just emotion driven. Justice is a concept of moral rightness. And it can be based on many things (religion, equity, law, emotion, natural law, ethics or rationality). Urborg Justice Evincar's Justice Tel-Jilad Justice
Using a word on a magic card does not necessarily mean using the entire concept behind it for the colour.
Also, in colour philosophy, when someone says "<colour> cares about / doesn't care about" that does not mean that every single character aligned with that colour cares about or doesn't care about that. Colour philosophies are ideals, and undiluted concepts. When applied to characters, they interact with other colours because no character (with the possible exception of mana constructs, give me a second) is truly only a single colour. Black, the colour, doesn't care about justice, but a black character may.
Which is precisely why having a black god be a god of justice would be weird. Gods are embodiments of colours or a colour, and as such they should be held to a higher standard in terms of colour philosophy than mortal characters who are often an amalgamation of different colours with one or two dominant ones. I wouldn't even have a problem with a whole culture (like the angels) in Kaldheim be aligned white-black and care about justice, but it would be really, really odd for the black god to embody a concept thats actually very counter to black's core philosophies.
From the trailer there might be more than 5 gods. thor loki flowing stone necromancer(hel?) heimdall and the guy going against reidanne give such vibe. Given that from previous videos theros block not all gods are shown we might still be looking at 10. So reidanne being orzhov is not off the table
Which is precisely why having a black god be a god of justice would be weird. Gods are embodiments of colours or a colour, and as such they should be held to a higher standard in terms of colour philosophy than mortal characters who are often an amalgamation of different colours with one or two dominant ones. I wouldn't even have a problem with a whole culture (like the angels) in Kaldheim be aligned white-black and care about justice, but it would be really, really odd for the black god to embody a concept thats actually very counter to black's core philosophies.
The thing we don't know if this is the case. It was on Theros and Amonkhet but we been told in Tyvars bio that the elves used to be gods and are now not, while the current gods took over after beating them. Could be gods are a more a title/job for super powerful beings, which is closer to the Norse version of gods.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
“There are no weak Jews. I am descended from those who wrestle angels and kill giants. We were chosen by God. You were chosen by a pathetic little man who can't seem to grow a full mustache"
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
1. You can play either side
2. Doesn’t matter which side you use the commander tax rises per-cast no matter which side you cast
3. equipped creatures with the equipment side of the commander it will not deal commander damage unless the equipment is animated and it’s attacking (via Karn, Silver Golem/March of the Machines)
4 both sides are your commander
1. You can play either side
2. Doesn’t matter which side you use the commander tax rises per-cast no matter which side you cast
3. equipped creatures with the equipment side of the commander it will not deal commander damage unless the equipment is animated and it’s attacking (via Karn, Silver Golem/March of the Machines)
4 both sides are your commander
I´m still confused as how this work.
1. Can I use Halvar as my commander and still have the equipment in my deck?
2 When Halvar dies, goes to the command zone and is being cast again can i then choose to cast my commander as the creature or equipment?
1. You can play either side
2. Doesn’t matter which side you use the commander tax rises per-cast no matter which side you cast
3. equipped creatures with the equipment side of the commander it will not deal commander damage unless the equipment is animated and it’s attacking (via Karn, Silver Golem/March of the Machines)
4 both sides are your commander
I´m still confused as how this work.
1. Can I use Halvar as my commander and still have the equipment in my deck?
2 When Halvar dies, goes to the command zone and is being cast again can i then choose to cast my commander as the creature or equipment?
My answers:
1. I'd say no since both sides of Halvar are your commander.
2. Yes, this is what "You can play either side" means - you can flip-flop between casting Halvar or his equipment from the command zone as many or as few times as you want.
Almost certainly. God cards have been done as cycles, I would expect the same here.
Noting that God is the default front-side, I agree it's likely but also wouldn't be surprised if it's a God/Artifact cycle. Imagine a God/Vehicle.
Now I'm imagining this set's Freyr expy getting a Vehicle on the back based on Skidbladnir.
Exactly! Heimdalr could be paired with Bifrost.
But knowing how Wizards works, they'll do equipment for all of them. Red will be "Thor" and he'll have some version of Mjolnir. Blue with be Odin, and he'll have some version of Gungnir, his spear. Black will be their valkyrie goddess. That just leaves green wild. Could be Heimdalr. It seems odd to have no Loki parallel. He's the driving part of half of the myths.
1. You can play either side
2. Doesn’t matter which side you use the commander tax rises per-cast no matter which side you cast
3. equipped creatures with the equipment side of the commander it will not deal commander damage unless the equipment is animated and it’s attacking (via Karn, Silver Golem/March of the Machines)
4 both sides are your commander
I´m still confused as how this work.
1. Can I use Halvar as my commander and still have the equipment in my deck?
2 When Halvar dies, goes to the command zone and is being cast again can i then choose to cast my commander as the creature or equipment?
MDFC cards still have a front face. While it's in any other zone besides the battlefield, it counts only as that front face.
Most of the rules that govern how transforming double-faced cards apply to the new modal variety. While a modal double-faced card is in your hand, your graveyard, or exile, it has the characteristics of its front face only. So, if you're searching your library for a land card, you can't find a modal double-faced card whose front face isn't a land card. If an effect allows you to cast instant spells from your graveyard, you could cast Valakut Awakening, but you couldn't play Valakut Stoneforge.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
✊🏿 Justice for George Floyd ✊🏿
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#DefundThePolice
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Dunes of Zairo
SHANDALAR
Innistrad - The Darkest Night
~THE RAVNICAN CONSORTIUM~
A Community Set
Commander: Allies & Adversaries
I'm wondering if all of the flip side equipment will have the same "when equipped creature dies, return to hand" ability - that's the immortality that it grants / the god has. And almost like the grandeur ability from future sight, two copies of the god lets you play it and equip it and then it is godlike - in this case, a 6/4 vigilance double-striker that comes back when it dies.
I got the impression from one of the preview articles that the only double faced cards in this set are the gods and the rest of the dual land cycle. Maybe I misinterpreted it. Apparently only Strixhaven was built around the DFCs and then they were later shoehorned into both this set and Zendikar, so I wouldn't expect a ton in this set.
Edit: Maro's hint of "protection from God creatures” appearing in rules text makes it seem a little more likely that there might be more than just 5 Gods
My recollections of Idunn's apples agree with yours.
Reminds me of another Norse tale I read, that of Thor and Loki visiting Utgard-Loki's place. Among the feats there, Thor tries wrestling old age personified...and loses.
Halvar also looks very U or even B on a first glance, since the armor in his non-showcase art and his sword are both shining bright blue and the background is a dark black. I'm pretty sure the blue-ish shine is supposed to be similar to the Nyxborn's design of Theros, but instead of a starry constellation design, godly items in Kaldheim have an aurora-colored shine.
As for B, the color as a concept is the literal antithesis of the concept of justice. B's core philosophy is being pragmatic, amoral and selfish. B could be interpreted as a color of vengeance but never one of justice. Additionally, WR soldiers using sword and shield are actually very common.
I looked again on Halvar and sorry I don't see why someone should thing he is blue. He looks like a warrior has some silver ornaments and white fur around his shoulder. And everything on that picture has kind of a blueish shimmer but the source of that light is the sword. If I had to suggest a color I would say black or white (well the armor pieces on the tables influence that decision, too).
For Reidane it is a little different because we only have a painted miniature. The wings could end darker like on the picture of Rampage of the Valkyries. I don't know if this is because Angels are Mana construct (maybe Valkyries are not?) but all boros Angels have at least something red colored. Reidane has nothing. Most of them uses two weapons Anya, Merciless Angel, Aurelia, Exemplar of Justice, Gisela, Blade of Goldnight or a two handed weapon Feather, the Redeemed, Razia, Boros Archangel, Firemane Avenger. There are only 11 Boros angels and 6 are using such weapons. I don't know what Tiana, Ship's Caretaker would use and if Angelic Captain weapons could be a two handed weapon(it seems very large and kind of a Katana like sword which would make it a two handed sword, too.). Reidane has so much blueish stuff.
And I agree with you the name (Goddess of Justice) seem to be something with white but Havar is taking that place. The other option would be that she is a multicolored God, not part of this cycle and therefore not a mythic card. We will have 4 Planeswalker, 5 mono colored gods and I think there where the information of a new mechanic taking 5 mythic slots for another cycle (maybe runes or foretell?). She could represent a more selfish kind of justice (her justice). For the moment I think she will be the mono black god with the horn as a equipment on the other side *shrug*. It is likely that she is, like Eboros in Theros, related to the afterlife in Kaldheim. Maybe judging the dead if they are worth or not. And the horn is used for calling her Valkyries to take the bodies of big battles.
Edit: After thinking a little more about it, It could be that there are only 2 or 3 multicolor gods apart of the mono colored cylce.
Justice doesn't contain emotion? Justice is one of the most emotionally loaded concepts we have, apart from actual emotions.
Justice is the biggest overlap between white and red, and also the Boros' greatest internal conflict. Justice for red is internal, red bases justice on what feels right (emotion), while white bases justice on the law (order). These two perspectives clash regularly (as they do in real life) within the Boros.
Justice is less of a good fit for the other colours. Blue doesn't really care for justice either way and infact one of it's biggest internal conflicts is morality. Green believes in a right and wrong but interestingly not in justice itself. And for black there is no justice. If you are being treated bad, then you either pull yourself up by yourself or you don't. In fact I'd go so far and say justice is an antithesis to pragmatism, because at its core it deliberately does not necessarily align with what's convenient or useful, but what is just.
For a minute there I wondered if we stopped talking about Magic cards. If you had to characterize America as just one piece of the color pie, what would it be?
---
#BLM
#DefundThePolice
Justice is bendable. Sometimes there are situations were something is right for somebody and for anothers not. The perspective matters. We had some black cards with Justice in the Name in the past (even if the meaning were twisted). And yeah again if we talking about Justice with law enforcement for order than that's white. Red would be just emotion driven. Justice is a concept of moral rightness. And it can be based on many things (religion, equity, law, emotion, natural law, ethics or rationality).
Urborg Justice
Evincar's Justice
Tel-Jilad Justice
Noting that God is the default front-side, I agree it's likely but also wouldn't be surprised if it's a God/Artifact cycle. Imagine a God/Vehicle.
Using a word on a magic card does not necessarily mean using the entire concept behind it for the colour.
Also, in colour philosophy, when someone says "<colour> cares about / doesn't care about" that does not mean that every single character aligned with that colour cares about or doesn't care about that. Colour philosophies are ideals, and undiluted concepts. When applied to characters, they interact with other colours because no character (with the possible exception of mana constructs, give me a second) is truly only a single colour. Black, the colour, doesn't care about justice, but a black character may.
Which is precisely why having a black god be a god of justice would be weird. Gods are embodiments of colours or a colour, and as such they should be held to a higher standard in terms of colour philosophy than mortal characters who are often an amalgamation of different colours with one or two dominant ones. I wouldn't even have a problem with a whole culture (like the angels) in Kaldheim be aligned white-black and care about justice, but it would be really, really odd for the black god to embody a concept thats actually very counter to black's core philosophies.
Edit: alrund for one is not shown
The thing we don't know if this is the case. It was on Theros and Amonkhet but we been told in Tyvars bio that the elves used to be gods and are now not, while the current gods took over after beating them. Could be gods are a more a title/job for super powerful beings, which is closer to the Norse version of gods.
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
Now I'm imagining this set's Freyr expy getting a Vehicle on the back based on Skidbladnir.
Exactly what I had in mind.
There are so many hilarious and cool potential artifacts in this.
Just for fun...
Freyr Card
https://twitter.com/tobyelliott/status/1339575802007056388
1. You can play either side
2. Doesn’t matter which side you use the commander tax rises per-cast no matter which side you cast
3. equipped creatures with the equipment side of the commander it will not deal commander damage unless the equipment is animated and it’s attacking (via Karn, Silver Golem/March of the Machines)
4 both sides are your commander
I´m still confused as how this work.
1. Can I use Halvar as my commander and still have the equipment in my deck?
2 When Halvar dies, goes to the command zone and is being cast again can i then choose to cast my commander as the creature or equipment?
My answers:
1. I'd say no since both sides of Halvar are your commander.
2. Yes, this is what "You can play either side" means - you can flip-flop between casting Halvar or his equipment from the command zone as many or as few times as you want.
Exactly! Heimdalr could be paired with Bifrost.
But knowing how Wizards works, they'll do equipment for all of them. Red will be "Thor" and he'll have some version of Mjolnir. Blue with be Odin, and he'll have some version of Gungnir, his spear. Black will be their valkyrie goddess. That just leaves green wild. Could be Heimdalr. It seems odd to have no Loki parallel. He's the driving part of half of the myths.
Low-power cube enthusiast!
My 1570 card cube (no longer updated)
My 415 Peasant+ Artifact and Enchantment Cube
Ever-Expanding "Just throw it in" cube.
MDFC cards still have a front face. While it's in any other zone besides the battlefield, it counts only as that front face.
https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/feature/zendikar-rising-mechanics-2020-09-01
---
#BLM
#DefundThePolice