Neat arts, hopefully they deliver good cards and intesting mechanics again in this set.
Again we were mistaken in the past but the set box art screams snow lands return.
I can't imagine how disappointed everybody would be if they don't have snow mechanics in a Viking themed set. Would be a massive flavour failure for sure, but it does look like snow is coming
Neat arts, hopefully they deliver good cards and intesting mechanics again in this set.
Again we were mistaken in the past but the set box art screams snow lands return.
I can't imagine how disappointed everybody would be if they don't have snow mechanics in a Viking themed set. Would be a massive flavour failure for sure, but it does look like snow is coming
Like Zendikar without Eldrazi. Yep I went there.
The majority of players do not see Eldrazi as a must for Zendikar. And the plane was concepted without it.
Where there are ships, there are pirates. Viking pirates. Viking minotaur pirates.
Finally getting some Kaldheim stuff because honestly I've gotten used to having a product review what seemed to be every few weeks so this lull is driving me nuts.
Zendikar III has been fun, but it's time for something else.
'buster
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'buster
HR Analyst. Gamer. Activist | Fearless, and forthright | Aggro-control is a mindset. Elspeth and Jhoira rock my world.
Neat arts, hopefully they deliver good cards and intesting mechanics again in this set.
Again we were mistaken in the past but the set box art screams snow lands return.
I can't imagine how disappointed everybody would be if they don't have snow mechanics in a Viking themed set. Would be a massive flavour failure for sure, but it does look like snow is coming
Like Zendikar without Eldrazi. Yep I went there.
Don't mention it...... My Eldrazi bros At least the one card mentioning Eldrazi was a good one though hehe.
Neat arts, hopefully they deliver good cards and intesting mechanics again in this set.
Again we were mistaken in the past but the set box art screams snow lands return.
I can't imagine how disappointed everybody would be if they don't have snow mechanics in a Viking themed set. Would be a massive flavour failure for sure, but it does look like snow is coming
Like Zendikar without Eldrazi. Yep I went there.
Why so much hate for the first 2 Zendikar sets?
Because neither of them managed to have the right focus, and almost entirely in service of limited and draft.
BFZ - focus was Allies or Eldrazi, emphasis on the latter, and not the plane.
ZNR - focus on weak limited tribal aspects and not the plane.
Players have repeatedly requested a Land, Landfall and Adventure World (Quests, Traps, Expeditions, etc.) set and we always end up with weak tribal trash instead. I can't believe how many times since the original WOTC got Zendikar wrong. We return a third time and STILL no Adventure World tropes?
There were reasons for it. MaRo has talked a lot about it.
First block, they literally HAD no plans back then. They had to come up with a 3rd set and RoE was what they (Shawn Main,really) came up with. It wasn't the plan--they had no plan. Think Fifth Dawn in Mirrodin Block or Saviors in Kamigawa block. (Yes, WTF indeed.)
Second block, they had a cliffhanger to resolve and (real reason) unfortunately, BFZ block was merely "connective tissue" for the much larger Gatewatch storyline concerns which spanned multiple years and were planned quite a bit in advance (and revised a few times as well). In short, it wasn't the real plan for Zendikar anyway as soon as Gatewatch became a thing.
You can certainly get frustrated they didn't do Adventure world but you can't say they just avoided doing it for no comprehensible reason and call them idiots for doing it that way. I think that is a little unfair and ignores alot of the facts that drove these decisions at the time. Please do not take this reply as a personal attack, not intended as such.
I think D&D world will be cool but I also don't hate that we got Eldrazi as well. It is what it is.
Maybe the MDFC is equipment because I think it's hard to balance equipment and other permanent for limited/draft
Plus thorz hammer there probably has a tough equip cost
Not sure if they'd ever put that many equipment in one set, assuming Zendikar Rising's MDFCs are any indication for the number of MDFCs we can expect.
I still hope they do, would be nice to get a god with it's weapon on the same card.
In the original Mirrodin set we had around 20, in the block itself 42, so maybe they could do it. It would be fun to have a creature like Borderland Marauder with a Bonesplitter on the back.
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.
Thanks to DarkNightCavalier from Heroes of the Plane Studios for this sick Signature.
Neat arts, hopefully they deliver good cards and intesting mechanics again in this set.
Again we were mistaken in the past but the set box art screams snow lands return.
I can't imagine how disappointed everybody would be if they don't have snow mechanics in a Viking themed set. Would be a massive flavour failure for sure, but it does look like snow is coming
Like Zendikar without Eldrazi. Yep I went there.
Why so much hate for the first 2 Zendikar sets?
No that iratation is reserved for the current Eldrazi-less set. 1st block Eldrazi, 2nd block Eldrazi, 3rd go around What is an Eldrazi?
Our only other chance to ever see new Eldrazi (playable in Standard/Pioneer/Modern) is if they show up in return to return to Innistrad. And maybe that is the plan. Put unspeakable horrors in a horror setting.
Playing since 1994: Currently MAGS (HomeBrew),Standard & Pauper (Pioneer and Modern are degenerate trash formats)
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
Neat arts, hopefully they deliver good cards and intesting mechanics again in this set.
Again we were mistaken in the past but the set box art screams snow lands return.
I can't imagine how disappointed everybody would be if they don't have snow mechanics in a Viking themed set. Would be a massive flavour failure for sure, but it does look like snow is coming
Like Zendikar without Eldrazi. Yep I went there.
Zendikar is much more interesting without Eldrazi. Yep I went there.
Neat arts, hopefully they deliver good cards and intesting mechanics again in this set.
Again we were mistaken in the past but the set box art screams snow lands return.
I can't imagine how disappointed everybody would be if they don't have snow mechanics in a Viking themed set. Would be a massive flavour failure for sure, but it does look like snow is coming
Like Zendikar without Eldrazi. Yep I went there.
Zendikar is much more interesting without Eldrazi. Yep I went there.
Just have a bit of both, cool adventure landfall themes and inter dimensional tentacle titans hehe. I like both.
Neat arts, hopefully they deliver good cards and intesting mechanics again in this set.
Again we were mistaken in the past but the set box art screams snow lands return.
I can't imagine how disappointed everybody would be if they don't have snow mechanics in a Viking themed set. Would be a massive flavour failure for sure, but it does look like snow is coming
Like Zendikar without Eldrazi. Yep I went there.
Zendikar is much more interesting without Eldrazi. Yep I went there.
Just have a bit of both, cool adventure landfall themes and inter dimensional tentacle titans hehe. I like both.
Exactly, you get it.
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Playing since 1994: Currently MAGS (HomeBrew),Standard & Pauper (Pioneer and Modern are degenerate trash formats)
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
Neat arts, hopefully they deliver good cards and intesting mechanics again in this set.
Again we were mistaken in the past but the set box art screams snow lands return.
I can't imagine how disappointed everybody would be if they don't have snow mechanics in a Viking themed set. Would be a massive flavour failure for sure, but it does look like snow is coming
Like Zendikar without Eldrazi. Yep I went there.
Why so much hate for the first 2 Zendikar sets?
Because neither of them managed to have the right focus, and almost entirely in service of limited and draft.
BFZ - focus was Allies or Eldrazi, emphasis on the latter, and not the plane.
ZNR - focus on weak limited tribal aspects and not the plane.
Players have repeatedly requested a Land, Landfall and Adventure World (Quests, Traps, Expeditions, etc.) set and we always end up with weak tribal trash instead. I can't believe how many times since the original WOTC got Zendikar wrong. We return a third time and STILL no Adventure World tropes?
Newsflash for you, Jenrik... modern sets are all designed for entertaining Limited play primarily.
And having the party and exploration theme in ZNR, and saying "STILL no Adventure World tropes" makes you look silly.
I can't believe that in all these years you are active here, you still did not grow up from your "it is bad because I do not like it" attitude.
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100% Vorthos Spike and Storyline Expert
Former Fact Prospector of the Greek Alliance.
Let this great clan rest in peace (2001-2011)
I can't imagine how disappointed everybody would be if they don't have snow mechanics in a Viking themed set. Would be a massive flavour failure for sure, but it does look like snow is coming
Like Zendikar without Eldrazi. Yep I went there.
Why so much hate for the first 2 Zendikar sets?
Because neither of them managed to have the right focus, and almost entirely in service of limited and draft.
BFZ - focus was Allies or Eldrazi, emphasis on the latter, and not the plane.
ZNR - focus on weak limited tribal aspects and not the plane.
Players have repeatedly requested a Land, Landfall and Adventure World (Quests, Traps, Expeditions, etc.) set and we always end up with weak tribal trash instead. I can't believe how many times since the original WOTC got Zendikar wrong. We return a third time and STILL no Adventure World tropes?
Newsflash for you, Jenrik... modern sets are all designed for entertaining Limited play primarily.
And having the party and exploration theme in ZNR, and saying "STILL no Adventure World tropes" makes you look silly.
I can't believe that in all these years you are active here, you still did not grow up from your "it is bad because I do not like it" attitude.
Good sets managed to hit multiple audiences. Zendikar forced as a semi-tribal set every time has been a drawback. The focus should be the world, not the tribes. I am not the only one calling both iterations of Zendikar poor execution.
Because neither of them managed to have the right focus, and almost entirely in service of limited and draft.
BFZ - focus was Allies or Eldrazi, emphasis on the latter, and not the plane.
ZNR - focus on weak limited tribal aspects and not the plane.
Players have repeatedly requested a Land, Landfall and Adventure World (Quests, Traps, Expeditions, etc.) set and we always end up with weak tribal trash instead. I can't believe how many times since the original WOTC got Zendikar wrong. We return a third time and STILL no Adventure World tropes?
Newsflash for you, Jenrik... modern sets are all designed for entertaining Limited play primarily.
And having the party and exploration theme in ZNR, and saying "STILL no Adventure World tropes" makes you look silly.
I can't believe that in all these years you are active here, you still did not grow up from your "it is bad because I do not like it" attitude.
Good sets managed to hit multiple audiences. Zendikar forced as a semi-tribal set every time has been a drawback. The focus should be the world, not the tribes. I am not the only one calling both iterations of Zendikar poor execution.
yep. i gotta agree with you. what made the first two sets in zendikar so great was the world. there was very little plot there, sure it was this great mystery as to what the hedrons were but the major draw was the adventure style. the landfall, quests, level up, traps, all the things coming together to build this really nice atmosphere of a grand adventure that even carried over into games itself. allies helped, and they were a limited hit and i think there may have been some standard play. then rise of the eldrazi came and was completely alien and different to what was established, it was jarring to say the least. then we went back to zendikar and focused too hard on the eldrazi while dropping almost all of the adventure theme.. that too was off putting since it wasn't what drew us to like the plane in the first place. it was like emphasizing the aspect of the set we liked the least and running with it. then we go back to zendikar again, and still dont' explore the themes that everyone originally liked but because allies were a mild hit we're going to force tribalness in a different way. its all just... messy, and totally misses the mark for why everyone liked zendikar 10 years ago.
and yeah, the best sets have typically emphasized the world they're set in, not run with some half cocked theme. like, imagine returning to ravnica but doing nothing guild related. that's the same idea that's being executed with these return to zendikar sets. it just makes for a bland set.
Basically anytime there's curved horns, people assume it means Bolas, even if they don't have the very distinctive curve of Bolas' horns. There's curved horns on the prow of the ship, so therefore, Bolas.
There is that, and also the fact that last time Kaldheim was brought up was in Magic Duels 2014, where the plot revolved around a servant of Nicol Bolas, Ramaz, who was from (and returned to) Kaldheim.
EDIT: Inserted quote, because I forgot that reply doesn't do that automatically.
Basically anytime there's curved horns, people assume it means Bolas, even if they don't have the very distinctive curve of Bolas' horns. There's curved horns on the prow of the ship, so therefore, Bolas.
There is that, and also the fact that last time Kaldheim was brought up was in Magic Duels 2014, where the plot revolved around a servant of Nicol Bolas, Ramaz, who was from (and returned to) Kaldheim.
EDIT: Inserted quote, because I forgot that reply doesn't do that automatically.
Not sure ramaz is confirmed to be from kaldheim as of now.
I can appreciate that some individuals only liked the adventure feel of Zendikar and feel like anything else added to it or getting focus on the plane is somehow bad but actually plenty of people like allies, adventure parties and the Eldrazi. So it's definitely not objectively bad that your pet favorite feature of those blocks wasn't the sole focus and everything else that other people liked wasn't done away with in favor of what you want.
It's true that good sets hit multiple audiences and Zendikar does. Unfortunately the only audience that's almost impossible to please is the one that wants only their interests catered to at the expense of everyone else. Which means they are going to be disappointed almost constantly, as we see here.
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Protection from reason (Decadent_Creed can't be blocked, targeted, dealt damage, or enchanted by reason.)
Not sure ramaz is confirmed to be from kaldheim as of now.
Correct. In no official capacity is Ramaz confirmed to be from Kaldheim. However, he is still heavily associated with the plane due to it being his chosen battleground in the game of his introduction.
His general appearance also has some extremely mild Nordic influence, and the fact that he's described as a Shaman obsessed with the future (along with being something of an outcast) has traits of the seiðmenn. Though both of these could be attributed to "It's a fantasy game about magic" and "it's a fantasy game about magic."
All that to say: since the last time we saw Kaldheim there was a reference to Bolas, until told otherwise, the connection remains assumed. (Simple assumption would be access to backup gods, for example.)
... your "it is bad because I do not like it" attitude.
I was going to say something to this effect, glad you beat me to it.
BFZ market research speaks for itself And ZNR preview season said it all.
If there wasn't an interest in seeing quests, expeditions and traps, etc. they wouldn't have considered them. The mistake was tossing them out despite the requests in favor of party and other creature rather than environment based mechanics.
I'm not sure the usual suspects declaring yet another set to be 'garbage' qualifies as a preview season speaking to anything, apart from maybe some confirmation bias. As far as market research, do you have links to show how well BFZ has sold or not sold?
Forgotten Realms is the set that will hit the quests, explorations and party feel. It's a massive RPG with those aspects so if it didn't have anything like that then those diehard D&D fans will lose their ***** to the nth degree.
Big stupid monsters (Eldrazi) is lazy design and was very random. The gothic horror portrayal in Innistrad II was better fitted for them.
This Zendikar was fine. It gave the aspect of exploration of a world in post-apocalyptic recovery.
'buster
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'buster
HR Analyst. Gamer. Activist | Fearless, and forthright | Aggro-control is a mindset. Elspeth and Jhoira rock my world.
Forgotten Realms is the set that will hit the quests, explorations and party feel. It's a massive RPG with those aspects so if it didn't have anything like that then those diehard D&D fans will lose their ***** to the nth degree.
Big stupid monsters (Eldrazi) is lazy design and was very random. The gothic horror portrayal in Innistrad II was better fitted for them.
This Zendikar was fine. It gave the aspect of exploration of a world in post-apocalyptic recovery.
'buster
I agree, the Cosmic Horror of SOI/EMN was amazing. I didn't like Eldrazi on Zendikar or in large numbers. The titans alone would have been neat though, but I prefer it again as adventure world, not eldrazi or tribal world. Ixalan did the latter better.
Maro has stated BFZ was a design failure. I didn't call ZNR trash, I said that particular focus of it was, at the expense of highly requested material.
Why so much hate for the first 2 Zendikar sets?
The majority of players do not see Eldrazi as a must for Zendikar. And the plane was concepted without it.
Finally getting some Kaldheim stuff because honestly I've gotten used to having a product review what seemed to be every few weeks so this lull is driving me nuts.
Zendikar III has been fun, but it's time for something else.
'buster
HR Analyst. Gamer. Activist | Fearless, and forthright | Aggro-control is a mindset.
Elspeth and Jhoira rock my world.
Don't mention it...... My Eldrazi bros At least the one card mentioning Eldrazi was a good one though hehe.
BFZ - focus was Allies or Eldrazi, emphasis on the latter, and not the plane.
ZNR - focus on weak limited tribal aspects and not the plane.
Players have repeatedly requested a Land, Landfall and Adventure World (Quests, Traps, Expeditions, etc.) set and we always end up with weak tribal trash instead. I can't believe how many times since the original WOTC got Zendikar wrong. We return a third time and STILL no Adventure World tropes?
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Kenessos, Priest of Thassa (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||
Electric bug zappers on Kaldheim...huh
Who knew?
'buster
HR Analyst. Gamer. Activist | Fearless, and forthright | Aggro-control is a mindset.
Elspeth and Jhoira rock my world.
I think you can probably relax here, friend.
There were reasons for it. MaRo has talked a lot about it.
First block, they literally HAD no plans back then. They had to come up with a 3rd set and RoE was what they (Shawn Main,really) came up with. It wasn't the plan--they had no plan. Think Fifth Dawn in Mirrodin Block or Saviors in Kamigawa block. (Yes, WTF indeed.)
Second block, they had a cliffhanger to resolve and (real reason) unfortunately, BFZ block was merely "connective tissue" for the much larger Gatewatch storyline concerns which spanned multiple years and were planned quite a bit in advance (and revised a few times as well). In short, it wasn't the real plan for Zendikar anyway as soon as Gatewatch became a thing.
You can certainly get frustrated they didn't do Adventure world but you can't say they just avoided doing it for no comprehensible reason and call them idiots for doing it that way. I think that is a little unfair and ignores alot of the facts that drove these decisions at the time. Please do not take this reply as a personal attack, not intended as such.
I think D&D world will be cool but I also don't hate that we got Eldrazi as well. It is what it is.
Fully-powered 600-Card "Dream Cube" https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/dreamcube
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Not sure if they'd ever put that many equipment in one set, assuming Zendikar Rising's MDFCs are any indication for the number of MDFCs we can expect.
RUNIN: Norse mythology set (awaiting further playtesting)
FATE of ALARA: Multicolour factions (currently on hiatus)
Contibutor to the Pyrulea community set
I'm here to tell you that all your set mechanics are bad
#Defundthepolice
I still hope they do, would be nice to get a god with it's weapon on the same card.
In the original Mirrodin set we had around 20, in the block itself 42, so maybe they could do it. It would be fun to have a creature like Borderland Marauder with a Bonesplitter on the back.
Thanks to DarkNightCavalier from Heroes of the Plane Studios for this sick Signature.
No that iratation is reserved for the current Eldrazi-less set. 1st block Eldrazi, 2nd block Eldrazi, 3rd go around What is an Eldrazi?
Our only other chance to ever see new Eldrazi (playable in Standard/Pioneer/Modern) is if they show up in return to return to Innistrad. And maybe that is the plan. Put unspeakable horrors in a horror setting.
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
Zendikar is much more interesting without Eldrazi. Yep I went there.
Shards of awful never
Just have a bit of both, cool adventure landfall themes and inter dimensional tentacle titans hehe. I like both.
Exactly, you get it.
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
Newsflash for you, Jenrik... modern sets are all designed for entertaining Limited play primarily.
And having the party and exploration theme in ZNR, and saying "STILL no Adventure World tropes" makes you look silly.
I can't believe that in all these years you are active here, you still did not grow up from your "it is bad because I do not like it" attitude.
Let this great clan rest in peace (2001-2011)
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Kenessos, Priest of Thassa (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||
yep. i gotta agree with you. what made the first two sets in zendikar so great was the world. there was very little plot there, sure it was this great mystery as to what the hedrons were but the major draw was the adventure style. the landfall, quests, level up, traps, all the things coming together to build this really nice atmosphere of a grand adventure that even carried over into games itself. allies helped, and they were a limited hit and i think there may have been some standard play. then rise of the eldrazi came and was completely alien and different to what was established, it was jarring to say the least. then we went back to zendikar and focused too hard on the eldrazi while dropping almost all of the adventure theme.. that too was off putting since it wasn't what drew us to like the plane in the first place. it was like emphasizing the aspect of the set we liked the least and running with it. then we go back to zendikar again, and still dont' explore the themes that everyone originally liked but because allies were a mild hit we're going to force tribalness in a different way. its all just... messy, and totally misses the mark for why everyone liked zendikar 10 years ago.
and yeah, the best sets have typically emphasized the world they're set in, not run with some half cocked theme. like, imagine returning to ravnica but doing nothing guild related. that's the same idea that's being executed with these return to zendikar sets. it just makes for a bland set.
I was going to say something to this effect, glad you beat me to it.
---
#BLM
#DefundThePolice
There is that, and also the fact that last time Kaldheim was brought up was in Magic Duels 2014, where the plot revolved around a servant of Nicol Bolas, Ramaz, who was from (and returned to) Kaldheim.
EDIT: Inserted quote, because I forgot that reply doesn't do that automatically.
Not sure ramaz is confirmed to be from kaldheim as of now.
It's true that good sets hit multiple audiences and Zendikar does. Unfortunately the only audience that's almost impossible to please is the one that wants only their interests catered to at the expense of everyone else. Which means they are going to be disappointed almost constantly, as we see here.
Correct. In no official capacity is Ramaz confirmed to be from Kaldheim. However, he is still heavily associated with the plane due to it being his chosen battleground in the game of his introduction.
His general appearance also has some extremely mild Nordic influence, and the fact that he's described as a Shaman obsessed with the future (along with being something of an outcast) has traits of the seiðmenn. Though both of these could be attributed to "It's a fantasy game about magic" and "it's a fantasy game about magic."
All that to say: since the last time we saw Kaldheim there was a reference to Bolas, until told otherwise, the connection remains assumed. (Simple assumption would be access to backup gods, for example.)
If there wasn't an interest in seeing quests, expeditions and traps, etc. they wouldn't have considered them. The mistake was tossing them out despite the requests in favor of party and other creature rather than environment based mechanics.
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Kenessos, Priest of Thassa (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||
---
#BLM
#DefundThePolice
Big stupid monsters (Eldrazi) is lazy design and was very random. The gothic horror portrayal in Innistrad II was better fitted for them.
This Zendikar was fine. It gave the aspect of exploration of a world in post-apocalyptic recovery.
'buster
HR Analyst. Gamer. Activist | Fearless, and forthright | Aggro-control is a mindset.
Elspeth and Jhoira rock my world.
Maro has stated BFZ was a design failure. I didn't call ZNR trash, I said that particular focus of it was, at the expense of highly requested material.
This set seems promising. We'll see.
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Kenessos, Priest of Thassa (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||