The entire main set is out right here. These three were left out of spoiler season because MTG LATAM didn't make a preview video/tweet about them. All we're waiting for the now is complete list of reprints in the precons.
For a set focused solely on Commander, Wizards sure didn’t do enough to address White’s shortcomings in the format, despite Maro and Gavins assurances they’d be addressing them.
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For a set focused solely on Commander, Wizards sure didn’t do enough to address White’s shortcomings in the format, despite Maro and Gavins assurances they’d be addressing them.
The entire main set is out right here. These three were left out of spoiler seasons because MTG LATAM didn't make a preview video/tweet about them. All we're waiting for the now is complete list of reprints in the precons.
Well not just mtg latam Mitch turn down one of the remainders due to integrity on what he said earlier so one of those would have been commander quarters preview as well
My guess is he would have gotten hamza which is a different take on animar
looks like Wayfarer's Bauble yet again didn’t get a reprint it will happen someday in meaningful way Mitch I promise
why do I feel like the white mythic is a foreshadow when they go to new phyrexia and not a war of the spark thing
oh By the way the art gavin showed as a teaser
It was nothing more than the second creature Hans ran from
Gavin no more art teasers of cards that aren't high tier plus why is it a rabbit instead of hans
For a set focused solely on Commander, Wizards sure didn’t do enough to address White’s shortcomings in the format, despite Maro and Gavins assurances they’d be addressing them.
More like for +5 mana over Replenish you also get artifacts and PWs. I've already gotten used to Open the Vaults as a budget (< $90) option, so this doesn't seem like too much of a stretch. The problem is less the CMC than it is having a viable home in the first place, since Wx enchantments - as a wincon - has no obvious commander as of yet. If this goes anywhere, it's probably Atraxa, Praetors' Voice or Sisay, Weatherlight Captain as an additional Primevals' Glorious Rebirth.
For a set focused solely on Commander, Wizards sure didn’t do enough to address White’s shortcomings in the format, despite Maro and Gavins assurances they’d be addressing them.
Yeah from all graveyards... not only your own.
This is too expensive I thing. I mean the cost where clear because all the spells form the cycle had the same cost. This just doesn't do enough. If you are playing an Enchantment deck you will most likely stick with Replenish. I mean it is a one sided Open the Vaults most of the times. So the costs are okayish? I don't know for 9 mana you need to get bonkers from your grave.
Yeah from all graveyards... not only your own.
This is too expensive I thing. I mean the cost where clear because all the spells form the cycle had the same cost. This just doesn't do enough. If you are playing an Enchantment deck you will most likely stick with Replenish. I mean it is a one sided Open the Vaults most of the times. So the costs are okayish? I don't know for 9 mana you need to get bonkers from your grave.
Yeah from all graveyards... not only your own.
This is too expensive I thing. I mean the cost where clear because all the spells form the cycle had the same cost. This just doesn't do enough. If you are playing an Enchantment deck you will most likely stick with Replenish. I mean it is a one sided Open the Vaults most of the times. So the costs are okayish? I don't know for 9 mana you need to get bonkers from your grave.
The Elephant is a funny build around.
Can I borrow ninety bucks?
Oh I can get a copy for around 30€ is still expensive but $90? Oof. Well I bought a copy long ago and I don't know all prices specially the one I didn't search for. But yeah that is too much :D.
before you all jump all over my ass as often happens, allow me to explain.
its a turd for a few reasons. once we look past the high value of some of the reprints in the mythic category what does this set actually offer edh players?
what is it reprinting that players actually need and want in order to succeed in the format? there isn't much. yes, vampiric tutor, scroll rack, staff of domination, they're good powerful cards but what about at the lower rarities? what about at common and uncommon? where are the eternal witnesses, the strip mines, ancient tombs, the sylvan libraries, the enlightened, worldly, and mystical tutors? what about the less ubiquitous things that have crept up in price, the aura sards, the sterling groves, the rhystic studies? sensei's divining top? how's that $10 mystic remora feel? creative reprints that need it? how about those? we got victimize again... but what we really need is another printing of dance of the dead, necromancy, and animate dead. sure we got three visits, and at uncommon even, but did we need it? nature's lore exists and is already pushing about $4 is there that much to be gained by having a second one in the format at a lower price or could this have been another or new ramp spell? cabal coffers is worth how much now? this was an opportunity to reprint a lot of these cards without effecting other formats or see precons fly off the shelf... and they just put in the bare minimum effort. a few high value hype cards - at mythic keeping them difficult to get - and not much in the way of other utility cards we see every single game that have slowly increased in value. the cards that can't really be printed anywhere because they'll warp things.
okay lets talk about the new cards then, surely those are all great? are they though? do they really add anything to the format? they sort of fall into 2 categories. do nothing, and busted as ****. for every opposition agent, hullbreacher, and jeweled lotus there's half a dozen crap rares that don't really explore any existing strategies in new ways or even meaningful ways. we see some cards that run with an idea and end up totally busted, making them ubiquitous to any deck that support the colors, and then we see ones that are just... solidly mediocre that are barely fringe playable. there's minimal if any middle ground, and middle ground is really where edh thrives.
the new commanders maybe? some of them are... alright. there isn't much that's really inspirational to build around. a lot of them have similar commanders already, or don't quite push an idea in a direction that's interesting. look at almost any thread where one is spoiled and there's minimal discussion on how to actually use that card as a commander. then there's the throwback commanders, many of whom feel like absolute flavor fails jammed into the set to placate people who have been begging. glacian, rebbec, radiant, baron sengir, there's a few examples of the ones that just make us go... who gives a ****. there's a few really cool ones too like hans and i guess belbe but its just all over the place.
but then so too there's this smattering of legends (and other mythics) that basically resolve and win you the game. i ask, how necessary is that to add to the format? do we really need more cards that are in the 8 to 12 mana range that go: you played it. you win. next pod. people already complain about the tooth and nails and the expropriates why give even more? why push even more cards that just end the pod, that'll be a race to push out like your post thanksgiving *****. oh but wait, there's also some occupying the mythic slot and that mana cost that just... don't do anything. like sure they do something but they don't do anything worth the cost. so you just end up with this really sloppy range of effects with again, no real middle.
even within the set itself a lot of its own themes just fall flat... they pushed equipment in white and red, but then didn't include ***** for equipment. no one expected all the swords, but one or two might've been good, or a handful of just exciting new equipments, or a few reprints of the ones in the $10-30 range, commander's plate is arguable in how good it is, but it also doesn't do much that's new or exciting in that design space
the pirate theme, its cute... but it would've been better served in an actual set. there's a bunch of similar examples, just half assed under explored almost concepts all over this set. just jammed together for the sake of saying HEY ITS GOT THAT THING YOU LIKE IN IT
where are the much hyped GOOD white cards? its just the same old catchup under powered crap as always but now we have keyword soup to do nothing with! a new printing of swords to plowshares, that's cool... what else you got? card isn't exactly difficult to come by and there should be more to the color white than that... but there isn't, even when promised there would be
if this set drives hype into the edh format, if it increases interest, all its going to do is serve to inflate the secondary market value of much of whats actually the meat of any given edh deck. that's not good for the format, or for magic players, and wotc directly controls that. the disparity between a deck that has those cards and one that doesn't is just tremendously high and now it'll be even higher.
so yeah, it'll be a financial success for wotc, and you'll probably do well with any product you open... maybe, it still just a gamble. does it add anything of value to the format its supposed to be all about? **** no. it pulled punches when this is the one place it could've been okay to go totally off the rails.
oh, and don't forget its a set that only comes 24 packs to a box and is massively bloated reducing your chances of getting that lotus or mana drain. plus a legend in every pack doesn't mean dick when those legends include radiant.
That white "ultimatum" is getting a lot of hate, but it's not like the other cycle is all completely busted and white is the odd one out. It seems on par with the others.
I've come to (not) expect it, but it still bums me out a bit when they print a new set and there are no new basic lands to go along with it. The Rebecca Guay and Kev Walker lands from a few years ago are still one of my favourite "go-to" basics for decks that don't have a specific theme. They could let Seb McKinnon do a cycle!
As far as the other contents of the set go, I'm happy. There are quite a few commander (combinations) that I'll try and brew and some neat non-Commander cards as well. So yeah, not bad.
even within the set itself a lot of its own themes just fall flat... they pushed equipment in white and red, but then didn't include ***** for equipment. no one expected all the swords, but one or two might've been good, or a handful of just exciting new equipments, or a few reprints of the ones in the $10-30 range, commander's plate is arguable in how good it is, but it also doesn't do much that's new or exciting in that design space
the pirate theme, its cute... but it would've been better served in an actual set. there's a bunch of similar examples, just half assed under explored almost concepts all over this set. just jammed together for the sake of saying HEY ITS GOT THAT THING YOU LIKE IN IT
where are the much hyped GOOD white cards? its just the same old catchup under powered crap as always but now we have keyword soup to do nothing with! a new printing of swords to plowshares, that's cool... what else you got? card isn't exactly difficult to come by and there should be more to the color white than that... but there isn't, even when promised there would be
Snip
I agree with you on most of your post, especially re the parts I left above. My personally view is that once they decided this set needed to be drafted, the set would only be okay bc they’d have filler for draft archetypes and underpowered cards to prevent feel bads. Had they just let things be designed for unexplored spaces and for characters needing cards, I think this set would have sold regardless of draft experience. There’s also the expectation that characters without cards or in need of another version would be here and just weren’t bc they didn’t fit draft signposts.
And you are right that the needed White upgrades were not here. Barely any new design space and little to no card advantage, monarch being the exception. Heck, Black and Blue got arguably the best White cards in Opposition Agent and HullBreacher, respectively.
While I am still looking forward to my box and building/adding to decks, I do agree that they played this extremely safe and really just need to drop “draft experience” from supplemental sets.
I don't understand the whole "if this set wasn't for drafting" logic, as literally the entire reason this set exists is to facilitate drafting commander. That's the core concept that this set spring from.
Every booster set since Mirage has been for draft. There are collector's boosters that will help you dodge draft chaff, or you could just buy the cards you want on the secondary market to save money. This is not new to the game.
If only WotC had some sort of direct to consumer product line that was just decent, asked for cards, maybe with unique art? If only...
I don't understand the whole "if this set wasn't for drafting" logic, as literally the entire reason this set exists is to facilitate drafting commander. That's the core concept that this set spring from.
Every booster set since Mirage has been for draft. There are collector's boosters that will help you dodge draft chaff, or you could just buy the cards you want on the secondary market to save money. This is not new to the game.
This. Completely. I'm actually excited to DRAFT COMMANDER! This is going to be sweet! That said, I do think the power level of the commons and uncommons could have been bumped up a bit. It's disappointing to see stuff that would be draft chaff in a standard-legal set find its way here, when a lot of the fun of commander is you are all playing with powerful cards in a multiplayer environment.
If only WotC had some sort of direct to consumer product line that was just decent, asked for cards, maybe with unique art? If only...
I see what you're getting at... but secret lair ain't it.
I don't understand the whole "if this set wasn't for drafting" logic, as literally the entire reason this set exists is to facilitate drafting commander. That's the core concept that this set spring from.
Every booster set since Mirage has been for draft. There are collector's boosters that will help you dodge draft chaff, or you could just buy the cards you want on the secondary market to save money. This is not new to the game.
This. Completely. I'm actually excited to DRAFT COMMANDER! This is going to be sweet! That said, I do think the power level of the commons and uncommons could have been bumped up a bit. It's disappointing to see stuff that would be draft chaff in a standard-legal set find its way here, when a lot of the fun of commander is you are all playing with powerful cards in a multiplayer environment.
If only WotC had some sort of direct to consumer product line that was just decent, asked for cards, maybe with unique art? If only...
I see what you're getting at... but secret lair ain't it.
Meh, Sol Ring at Uncommon is the strongest uncommon in a draft legal set. It's easy to see only misses when we ignore the hits. Are some cards weak at each rarity? Sure. But this is still one of the strongest draft environments ever produced. Maaaaaaybe modern horizons is a tad stronger, mostly because of tighter synergies. Maybe.
It's like WOTC just want white to be constructed with other colors and not going mono with EDH
I'm starting to believe that WOTC aren't giving white what they need and where they are better with the midrange weenie tax control style gameplay which is instead WOTC are doing more token matter commanders, artifact matter commanders or huge late game commander creatures that isn't beneficial to the mono play style of white.
Red is having a 0 cost kobold at least and decent legendary Goblin in the recent expansions and white it's another token, aggro buff on single creature or artifact matters.
before you all jump all over my ass as often happens, allow me to explain.
its a turd for a few reasons. once we look past the high value of some of the reprints in the mythic category what does this set actually offer edh players?
what is it reprinting that players actually need and want in order to succeed in the format? there isn't much. yes, vampiric tutor, scroll rack, staff of domination, they're good powerful cards but what about at the lower rarities? what about at common and uncommon? where are the eternal witnesses, the strip mines, ancient tombs, the sylvan libraries, the enlightened, worldly, and mystical tutors? what about the less ubiquitous things that have crept up in price, the aura sards, the sterling groves, the rhystic studies? sensei's divining top? how's that $10 mystic remora feel? creative reprints that need it? how about those? we got victimize again... but what we really need is another printing of dance of the dead, necromancy, and animate dead. sure we got three visits, and at uncommon even, but did we need it? nature's lore exists and is already pushing about $4 is there that much to be gained by having a second one in the format at a lower price or could this have been another or new ramp spell? cabal coffers is worth how much now? this was an opportunity to reprint a lot of these cards without effecting other formats or see precons fly off the shelf... and they just put in the bare minimum effort. a few high value hype cards - at mythic keeping them difficult to get - and not much in the way of other utility cards we see every single game that have slowly increased in value. the cards that can't really be printed anywhere because they'll warp things.
okay lets talk about the new cards then, surely those are all great? are they though? do they really add anything to the format? they sort of fall into 2 categories. do nothing, and busted as ****. for every opposition agent, hullbreacher, and jeweled lotus there's half a dozen crap rares that don't really explore any existing strategies in new ways or even meaningful ways. we see some cards that run with an idea and end up totally busted, making them ubiquitous to any deck that support the colors, and then we see ones that are just... solidly mediocre that are barely fringe playable. there's minimal if any middle ground, and middle ground is really where edh thrives.
the new commanders maybe? some of them are... alright. there isn't much that's really inspirational to build around. a lot of them have similar commanders already, or don't quite push an idea in a direction that's interesting. look at almost any thread where one is spoiled and there's minimal discussion on how to actually use that card as a commander. then there's the throwback commanders, many of whom feel like absolute flavor fails jammed into the set to placate people who have been begging. glacian, rebbec, radiant, baron sengir, there's a few examples of the ones that just make us go... who gives a ****. there's a few really cool ones too like hans and i guess belbe but its just all over the place.
but then so too there's this smattering of legends (and other mythics) that basically resolve and win you the game. i ask, how necessary is that to add to the format? do we really need more cards that are in the 8 to 12 mana range that go: you played it. you win. next pod. people already complain about the tooth and nails and the expropriates why give even more? why push even more cards that just end the pod, that'll be a race to push out like your post thanksgiving *****. oh but wait, there's also some occupying the mythic slot and that mana cost that just... don't do anything. like sure they do something but they don't do anything worth the cost. so you just end up with this really sloppy range of effects with again, no real middle.
even within the set itself a lot of its own themes just fall flat... they pushed equipment in white and red, but then didn't include ***** for equipment. no one expected all the swords, but one or two might've been good, or a handful of just exciting new equipments, or a few reprints of the ones in the $10-30 range, commander's plate is arguable in how good it is, but it also doesn't do much that's new or exciting in that design space
the pirate theme, its cute... but it would've been better served in an actual set. there's a bunch of similar examples, just half assed under explored almost concepts all over this set. just jammed together for the sake of saying HEY ITS GOT THAT THING YOU LIKE IN IT
where are the much hyped GOOD white cards? its just the same old catchup under powered crap as always but now we have keyword soup to do nothing with! a new printing of swords to plowshares, that's cool... what else you got? card isn't exactly difficult to come by and there should be more to the color white than that... but there isn't, even when promised there would be
if this set drives hype into the edh format, if it increases interest, all its going to do is serve to inflate the secondary market value of much of whats actually the meat of any given edh deck. that's not good for the format, or for magic players, and wotc directly controls that. the disparity between a deck that has those cards and one that doesn't is just tremendously high and now it'll be even higher.
so yeah, it'll be a financial success for wotc, and you'll probably do well with any product you open... maybe, it still just a gamble. does it add anything of value to the format its supposed to be all about? **** no. it pulled punches when this is the one place it could've been okay to go totally off the rails.
oh, and don't forget its a set that only comes 24 packs to a box and is massively bloated reducing your chances of getting that lotus or mana drain. plus a legend in every pack doesn't mean dick when those legends include radiant.
keep on gambling kids.
He’s right.
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"The essence of every world, every spell and every thought is power. Nothing else matters, because nothing else exists."
The reason why MTG sets never will see their potential is because draft is prioritized over everything else. These characters are literally the reason why Magic exists and they shafted 99% of them.
Let’s throw some powerful cards or reprints into this set, some cards that will make people brew decks and the rest be for draft purposes. It literally makes no sense. Chaos draft was invented to supplant that missing part of drafting a group of powerful sets.
the guy that gets Scroll Rack in draft wins every time. It’s unfun.
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"The essence of every world, every spell and every thought is power. Nothing else matters, because nothing else exists."
Could have been better with more interesting Lands. Cabal Coffers, Nykthos, and new Legendary Lands would have been ideal. Or Enchantment Lands. I'd really like to see more focus on designs for lands in Commander products. That is always sorely lacking. This is the format to push boundaries and make Legendary lands where they aren't such a drawback.
[quote from="ChariSays »" url="/forums/magic-fundamentals/the-rumor-mill/819504-cmr-mothership-11-05-triumphant-reckoning-alharu?comment=16"]I don't understand the whole "if this set wasn't for drafting" logic, as literally the entire reason this set exists is to facilitate drafting commander. That's the core concept that this set spring from.
Every booster set since Mirage has been for draft. There are collector's boosters that will help you dodge draft chaff, or you could just buy the cards you want on the secondary market to save money. This is not new to the game.
This. Completely. I'm actually excited to DRAFT COMMANDER! This is going to be sweet! That said, I do think the power level of the commons and uncommons could have been bumped up a bit. It's disappointing to see stuff that would be draft chaff in a standard-legal set find its way here, when a lot of the fun of commander is you are all playing with powerful cards in a multiplayer environment.
Meh, Sol Ring at Uncommon is the strongest uncommon in a draft legal set. It's easy to see only misses when we ignore the hits. Are some cards weak at each rarity? Sure. But this is still one of the strongest draft environments ever produced. Maaaaaaybe modern horizons is a tad stronger, mostly because of tighter synergies. Maybe.
I'm pretty sure sol ring is just in the precons, not in the actual set itself. You could be right though. And I'm sure wotc knows far better than I how to construct a good draft environment. I'm just thinking it won't feel completely like commander if there are some major clunkers people are forced to play with.
Still, I'm very much looking forward to drafting and playing this set.
I don't understand the whole "if this set wasn't for drafting" logic, as literally the entire reason this set exists is to facilitate drafting commander. That's the core concept that this set spring from.
Every booster set since Mirage has been for draft. There are collector's boosters that will help you dodge draft chaff, or you could just buy the cards you want on the secondary market to save money. This is not new to the game.
If only WotC had some sort of direct to consumer product line that was just decent, asked for cards, maybe with unique art? If only...
I don't understand the whole "if this set wasn't for drafting" logic, as literally the entire reason this set exists is to facilitate drafting commander. That's the core concept that this set spring from.
Every booster set since Mirage has been for draft. There are collector's boosters that will help you dodge draft chaff, or you could just buy the cards you want on the secondary market to save money. This is not new to the game.
This. Completely. I'm actually excited to DRAFT COMMANDER! This is going to be sweet! That said, I do think the power level of the commons and uncommons could have been bumped up a bit. It's disappointing to see stuff that would be draft chaff in a standard-legal set find its way here, when a lot of the fun of commander is you are all playing with powerful cards in a multiplayer environment.
If only WotC had some sort of direct to consumer product line that was just decent, asked for cards, maybe with unique art? If only...
I see what you're getting at... but secret lair ain't it.
In the same posts that you say you cannot wait to draft this set, you also say you wish it didn't have as much draft chaff...
I understand that the set was inspired by the idea of combining Commander with draft, but if there were ever a set that did not need to prioritize a draft environment, it was this one. It could have been that direct to the players set and def wouldn't have needed to be a larger set either. That would allow them to design legends appropriately, add more needed reprints, and design more format orientated cards. I do feel that the draft oriented mindset did hurt legend design and inclusion and reprints more than designing new commander cards. I am still excited for the set, but I'm def hoping things go differently when CL2 is designed and delivers more on Commander's needs than having to bend those needs around a draft experience.
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Spoiler EditorThe entire main set is out right here. These three were left out of spoiler season because MTG LATAM didn't make a preview video/tweet about them. All we're waiting for the now is complete list of reprints in the precons.
For a set focused solely on Commander, Wizards sure didn’t do enough to address White’s shortcomings in the format, despite Maro and Gavins assurances they’d be addressing them.
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Spoiler EditorWell not just mtg latam Mitch turn down one of the remainders due to integrity on what he said earlier so one of those would have been commander quarters preview as well
My guess is he would have gotten hamza which is a different take on animar
looks like Wayfarer's Bauble yet again didn’t get a reprint it will happen someday in meaningful way Mitch I promise
why do I feel like the white mythic is a foreshadow when they go to new phyrexia and not a war of the spark thing
oh By the way the art gavin showed as a teaser
It was nothing more than the second creature Hans ran from
Gavin no more art teasers of cards that aren't high tier plus why is it a rabbit instead of hans
I think that's what Promise of Tomorrow is for.
Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest WUR Voltron Control
Temmet, Vizier of Naktamun WU Unblockable Mirror Trickery
Ra's al Ghul (Sidar Kondo) and Face-Down Ninjas
Brudiclad, Token Engineer
Vaevictis (VV2) the Dire Lantern
Rona, Disciple of Gix
Tiana the Auror
Hallar
Ulrich the Politician
Zur the Rebel
Scorpion, Locust, Scarab, Egyptian Gods
O-Kagachi, Mathas, Mairsil
"Non-Tribal" Tribal Generals, Eggs
More like for +5 mana over Replenish you also get artifacts and PWs. I've already gotten used to Open the Vaults as a budget (< $90) option, so this doesn't seem like too much of a stretch. The problem is less the CMC than it is having a viable home in the first place, since Wx enchantments - as a wincon - has no obvious commander as of yet. If this goes anywhere, it's probably Atraxa, Praetors' Voice or Sisay, Weatherlight Captain as an additional Primevals' Glorious Rebirth.
---
#BLM
#DefundThePolice
Yeah from all graveyards... not only your own.
This is too expensive I thing. I mean the cost where clear because all the spells form the cycle had the same cost. This just doesn't do enough. If you are playing an Enchantment deck you will most likely stick with Replenish. I mean it is a one sided Open the Vaults most of the times. So the costs are okayish? I don't know for 9 mana you need to get bonkers from your grave.
The Elephant is a funny build around.
Can I borrow ninety bucks?
---
#BLM
#DefundThePolice
Commander
U Tetsuko Umezawa, Fugitive
W Norika Yamazaki, the Poet
G Freyalise, Llanowar's Fury
WU Yorion, Sky Nomad
Oh I can get a copy for around 30€ is still expensive but $90? Oof. Well I bought a copy long ago and I don't know all prices specially the one I didn't search for. But yeah that is too much :D.
before you all jump all over my ass as often happens, allow me to explain.
its a turd for a few reasons. once we look past the high value of some of the reprints in the mythic category what does this set actually offer edh players?
what is it reprinting that players actually need and want in order to succeed in the format? there isn't much. yes, vampiric tutor, scroll rack, staff of domination, they're good powerful cards but what about at the lower rarities? what about at common and uncommon? where are the eternal witnesses, the strip mines, ancient tombs, the sylvan libraries, the enlightened, worldly, and mystical tutors? what about the less ubiquitous things that have crept up in price, the aura sards, the sterling groves, the rhystic studies? sensei's divining top? how's that $10 mystic remora feel? creative reprints that need it? how about those? we got victimize again... but what we really need is another printing of dance of the dead, necromancy, and animate dead. sure we got three visits, and at uncommon even, but did we need it? nature's lore exists and is already pushing about $4 is there that much to be gained by having a second one in the format at a lower price or could this have been another or new ramp spell? cabal coffers is worth how much now? this was an opportunity to reprint a lot of these cards without effecting other formats or see precons fly off the shelf... and they just put in the bare minimum effort. a few high value hype cards - at mythic keeping them difficult to get - and not much in the way of other utility cards we see every single game that have slowly increased in value. the cards that can't really be printed anywhere because they'll warp things.
okay lets talk about the new cards then, surely those are all great? are they though? do they really add anything to the format? they sort of fall into 2 categories. do nothing, and busted as ****. for every opposition agent, hullbreacher, and jeweled lotus there's half a dozen crap rares that don't really explore any existing strategies in new ways or even meaningful ways. we see some cards that run with an idea and end up totally busted, making them ubiquitous to any deck that support the colors, and then we see ones that are just... solidly mediocre that are barely fringe playable. there's minimal if any middle ground, and middle ground is really where edh thrives.
the new commanders maybe? some of them are... alright. there isn't much that's really inspirational to build around. a lot of them have similar commanders already, or don't quite push an idea in a direction that's interesting. look at almost any thread where one is spoiled and there's minimal discussion on how to actually use that card as a commander. then there's the throwback commanders, many of whom feel like absolute flavor fails jammed into the set to placate people who have been begging. glacian, rebbec, radiant, baron sengir, there's a few examples of the ones that just make us go... who gives a ****. there's a few really cool ones too like hans and i guess belbe but its just all over the place.
but then so too there's this smattering of legends (and other mythics) that basically resolve and win you the game. i ask, how necessary is that to add to the format? do we really need more cards that are in the 8 to 12 mana range that go: you played it. you win. next pod. people already complain about the tooth and nails and the expropriates why give even more? why push even more cards that just end the pod, that'll be a race to push out like your post thanksgiving *****. oh but wait, there's also some occupying the mythic slot and that mana cost that just... don't do anything. like sure they do something but they don't do anything worth the cost. so you just end up with this really sloppy range of effects with again, no real middle.
even within the set itself a lot of its own themes just fall flat... they pushed equipment in white and red, but then didn't include ***** for equipment. no one expected all the swords, but one or two might've been good, or a handful of just exciting new equipments, or a few reprints of the ones in the $10-30 range, commander's plate is arguable in how good it is, but it also doesn't do much that's new or exciting in that design space
the pirate theme, its cute... but it would've been better served in an actual set. there's a bunch of similar examples, just half assed under explored almost concepts all over this set. just jammed together for the sake of saying HEY ITS GOT THAT THING YOU LIKE IN IT
where are the much hyped GOOD white cards? its just the same old catchup under powered crap as always but now we have keyword soup to do nothing with! a new printing of swords to plowshares, that's cool... what else you got? card isn't exactly difficult to come by and there should be more to the color white than that... but there isn't, even when promised there would be
if this set drives hype into the edh format, if it increases interest, all its going to do is serve to inflate the secondary market value of much of whats actually the meat of any given edh deck. that's not good for the format, or for magic players, and wotc directly controls that. the disparity between a deck that has those cards and one that doesn't is just tremendously high and now it'll be even higher.
so yeah, it'll be a financial success for wotc, and you'll probably do well with any product you open... maybe, it still just a gamble. does it add anything of value to the format its supposed to be all about? **** no. it pulled punches when this is the one place it could've been okay to go totally off the rails.
oh, and don't forget its a set that only comes 24 packs to a box and is massively bloated reducing your chances of getting that lotus or mana drain. plus a legend in every pack doesn't mean dick when those legends include radiant.
keep on gambling kids.
Both those uncommon legends seem strong.
As far as the other contents of the set go, I'm happy. There are quite a few commander (combinations) that I'll try and brew and some neat non-Commander cards as well. So yeah, not bad.
I agree with you on most of your post, especially re the parts I left above. My personally view is that once they decided this set needed to be drafted, the set would only be okay bc they’d have filler for draft archetypes and underpowered cards to prevent feel bads. Had they just let things be designed for unexplored spaces and for characters needing cards, I think this set would have sold regardless of draft experience. There’s also the expectation that characters without cards or in need of another version would be here and just weren’t bc they didn’t fit draft signposts.
And you are right that the needed White upgrades were not here. Barely any new design space and little to no card advantage, monarch being the exception. Heck, Black and Blue got arguably the best White cards in Opposition Agent and HullBreacher, respectively.
While I am still looking forward to my box and building/adding to decks, I do agree that they played this extremely safe and really just need to drop “draft experience” from supplemental sets.
Every booster set since Mirage has been for draft. There are collector's boosters that will help you dodge draft chaff, or you could just buy the cards you want on the secondary market to save money. This is not new to the game.
If only WotC had some sort of direct to consumer product line that was just decent, asked for cards, maybe with unique art? If only...
Kroxa, Titan of Death's Hunger
Omnath, Locus of Rage
Kinnan, Bonder Prodigy
Toshiro Umezawa
Thraximundar
Jirina Kudro
Geist of Saint Traft
Krark, the Thumbless + Sakashima of a Thousand Faces
This site has me constantly saying "Some peoples' kids"
This. Completely. I'm actually excited to DRAFT COMMANDER! This is going to be sweet! That said, I do think the power level of the commons and uncommons could have been bumped up a bit. It's disappointing to see stuff that would be draft chaff in a standard-legal set find its way here, when a lot of the fun of commander is you are all playing with powerful cards in a multiplayer environment.
I see what you're getting at... but secret lair ain't it.
Meh, Sol Ring at Uncommon is the strongest uncommon in a draft legal set. It's easy to see only misses when we ignore the hits. Are some cards weak at each rarity? Sure. But this is still one of the strongest draft environments ever produced. Maaaaaaybe modern horizons is a tad stronger, mostly because of tighter synergies. Maybe.
Kroxa, Titan of Death's Hunger
Omnath, Locus of Rage
Kinnan, Bonder Prodigy
Toshiro Umezawa
Thraximundar
Jirina Kudro
Geist of Saint Traft
Krark, the Thumbless + Sakashima of a Thousand Faces
This site has me constantly saying "Some peoples' kids"
I'm starting to believe that WOTC aren't giving white what they need and where they are better with the midrange weenie tax control style gameplay which is instead WOTC are doing more token matter commanders, artifact matter commanders or huge late game commander creatures that isn't beneficial to the mono play style of white.
Red is having a 0 cost kobold at least and decent legendary Goblin in the recent expansions and white it's another token, aggro buff on single creature or artifact matters.
He’s right.
Let’s throw some powerful cards or reprints into this set, some cards that will make people brew decks and the rest be for draft purposes. It literally makes no sense. Chaos draft was invented to supplant that missing part of drafting a group of powerful sets.
the guy that gets Scroll Rack in draft wins every time. It’s unfun.
EDH DECKS
Currently under construction
MAGECRAFT STORM
Protection from Degeneracy
Do not pray for an easy life. Pray for the strength to endure a difficult one.
Could have been better with more interesting Lands. Cabal Coffers, Nykthos, and new Legendary Lands would have been ideal. Or Enchantment Lands. I'd really like to see more focus on designs for lands in Commander products. That is always sorely lacking. This is the format to push boundaries and make Legendary lands where they aren't such a drawback.
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Kenessos, Priest of Thassa (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||
I'm pretty sure sol ring is just in the precons, not in the actual set itself. You could be right though. And I'm sure wotc knows far better than I how to construct a good draft environment. I'm just thinking it won't feel completely like commander if there are some major clunkers people are forced to play with.
Still, I'm very much looking forward to drafting and playing this set.
In the same posts that you say you cannot wait to draft this set, you also say you wish it didn't have as much draft chaff...
I understand that the set was inspired by the idea of combining Commander with draft, but if there were ever a set that did not need to prioritize a draft environment, it was this one. It could have been that direct to the players set and def wouldn't have needed to be a larger set either. That would allow them to design legends appropriately, add more needed reprints, and design more format orientated cards. I do feel that the draft oriented mindset did hurt legend design and inclusion and reprints more than designing new commander cards. I am still excited for the set, but I'm def hoping things go differently when CL2 is designed and delivers more on Commander's needs than having to bend those needs around a draft experience.