I'll concede that colorless decks on a budget may get some use out of it, that's a good point. Would still absolutely run every sword first given the option.
So you put a Sword of Feast and Famine on your commander, and they Swords your commander. Way to go.
Making any mono-colored commander extremely hard to get rid of or block makes for an excellent card in decks that want to equip their commander.
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"I hope to have such a death... lying in triumph atop the broken bodies of those who slew me..."
You don't call "dying to removal" if the removal is more expensive in resources than the creature. If you have to spend BG (Abrupt Decay), or W + basic land (PtE) to remove a 1G, that is not "dying to removal". Strictly speaking Goyf dies to removal, but actually your removal is dying to Goyf.
I'll concede that colorless decks on a budget may get some use out of it, that's a good point. Would still absolutely run every sword first given the option.
So you put a Sword of Feast and Famine on your commander, and they Swords your commander. Way to go.
Making any mono-colored commander extremely hard to get rid of or block makes for an excellent card in decks that want to equip their commander.
So you attempt to equip your commander with plate and they swords it. Way to go.
The floor on this card is the same as the floor on swords: You get nothing.
The ceiling, and the average case even, on a sword is much MUCH MUCH higher.
I'll concede that colorless decks on a budget may get some use out of it, that's a good point. Would still absolutely run every sword first given the option.
So you put a Sword of Feast and Famine on your commander, and they Swords your commander. Way to go.
Making any mono-colored commander extremely hard to get rid of or block makes for an excellent card in decks that want to equip their commander.
So you attempt to equip your commander with plate and they swords it. Way to go.
The floor on this card is the same as the floor on swords: You get nothing.
The ceiling, and the average case even, on a sword is much MUCH MUCH higher.
How did they Swords my equipped mono-black commander?
Unless you're saying Swords in response to equip, in which case every equipment ever is terrible because you can always respond to the equip, making it pointless.
Once the card is equipped, I'd wager players would be much happier with "Protection from 4+ colors" than "Do this kind of decent thing only if you manage to land damage and protection from 2 specific colors".
On a different note, this exact conversation is why people need to have what type of Magic they play somewhere on their profile. If you play CEDH, and therefore 99.999999999999% of all cards printed will never see any play whatsoever because it doesn't combo kill the board on Turn 5 with Force of Will to back it up, then cards like this are terrible. So are the swords. And every equipment ever made except for maybe Skullclamp.
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"I hope to have such a death... lying in triumph atop the broken bodies of those who slew me..."
You don't call "dying to removal" if the removal is more expensive in resources than the creature. If you have to spend BG (Abrupt Decay), or W + basic land (PtE) to remove a 1G, that is not "dying to removal". Strictly speaking Goyf dies to removal, but actually your removal is dying to Goyf.
I'll concede that colorless decks on a budget may get some use out of it, that's a good point. Would still absolutely run every sword first given the option.
So you put a Sword of Feast and Famine on your commander, and they Swords your commander. Way to go.
Making any mono-colored commander extremely hard to get rid of or block makes for an excellent card in decks that want to equip their commander.
So you attempt to equip your commander with plate and they swords it. Way to go.
The floor on this card is the same as the floor on swords: You get nothing.
The ceiling, and the average case even, on a sword is much MUCH MUCH higher.
How did they Swords my equipped mono-black commander?
Unless you're saying Swords in response to equip, in which case every equipment ever is terrible because you can always respond to the equip, making it pointless.
Once the card is equipped, I'd wager players would be much happier with "Protection from 4+ colors" than "Do this kind of decent thing only if you manage to land damage and protection from 2 specific colors".
On a different note, this exact conversation is why people need to have what type of Magic they play somewhere on their profile. If you play CEDH, and therefore 99.999999999999% of all cards printed will never see any play whatsoever because it doesn't combo kill the board on Turn 5 with Force of Will to back it up, then cards like this are terrible. So are the swords. And every equipment ever made except for maybe Skullclamp.
Absolutely could not disagree more.
Your position that this is "Protection from 4+ colors" is ONLY relevant in 0-1 color decks. On average this is protection from 2-3 colors and no other value which is, objectively, dramatically less useful than protection from 2 colors AND getting two triggers worth of value off a sword. If the triggers weren't bonkers good on swords, they wouldn't be as popular as they are, so its really suspect to remove them from the equation.
I'll concede that colorless decks on a budget may get some use out of it, that's a good point. Would still absolutely run every sword first given the option.
So you put a Sword of Feast and Famine on your commander, and they Swords your commander. Way to go.
Making any mono-colored commander extremely hard to get rid of or block makes for an excellent card in decks that want to equip their commander.
So you attempt to equip your commander with plate and they swords it. Way to go.
The floor on this card is the same as the floor on swords: You get nothing.
The ceiling, and the average case even, on a sword is much MUCH MUCH higher.
How did they Swords my equipped mono-black commander?
Unless you're saying Swords in response to equip, in which case every equipment ever is terrible because you can always respond to the equip, making it pointless.
Once the card is equipped, I'd wager players would be much happier with "Protection from 4+ colors" than "Do this kind of decent thing only if you manage to land damage and protection from 2 specific colors".
On a different note, this exact conversation is why people need to have what type of Magic they play somewhere on their profile. If you play CEDH, and therefore 99.999999999999% of all cards printed will never see any play whatsoever because it doesn't combo kill the board on Turn 5 with Force of Will to back it up, then cards like this are terrible. So are the swords. And every equipment ever made except for maybe Skullclamp.
Absolutely could not disagree more.
Your position that this is "Protection from 4+ colors" is ONLY relevant in 0-1 color decks. On average this is protection from 2-3 colors and no other value which is, objectively, dramatically less useful than protection from 2 colors AND getting two triggers worth of value off a sword. If the triggers weren't bonkers good on swords, they wouldn't be as popular as they are, so its really suspect to remove them from the equation.
But your quote above claims that you would still rather run the swords in mono-color and colorless decks, and that players should only stoop to playing this card if they can't afford the swords. That's the issue I have with your statement.
On the topic of the swords, I never see any of them in EDH. The only equipment I see that isn't in a Voltron deck is Lightning Greaves, Swiftfoot Boots, Skullclamp, Cranial Plating, and occasionally Whispersilk Cloak.
According to EDHRec, the highest played Sword is Feast and Famine at 10th most played equipment, played in 4% of all decks. Fire and Ice is 16th. Light and Shadow is 21st. The two most played are Greaves (29% of decks) and Boots (21%). Notice that creature protection is what sees play.
While this card won't be nearly as good in 3-5 color commanders, it is a top tier protection choice for mono-color or colorless.
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"I hope to have such a death... lying in triumph atop the broken bodies of those who slew me..."
You don't call "dying to removal" if the removal is more expensive in resources than the creature. If you have to spend BG (Abrupt Decay), or W + basic land (PtE) to remove a 1G, that is not "dying to removal". Strictly speaking Goyf dies to removal, but actually your removal is dying to Goyf.
Greaves and Boots see more play because A) they're dramatically cheaper, B) they've been printed into the ground in Commander products so everyone has them, and C) new players are obsessed with protecting the queen at all costs. Not because they're better. If the swords were cheaper and/or reprinted more, they'd absolutely rise to the top.
If our discussion is about what sees more play (which I was unaware of that turning point in the conversation) then yes, Plate will probably see more play for the same reasons I mentioned above.
From a raw power-level perspective (which is the position I was arguing from) there really isn't much argument against swords just being dramatically better.
So I have an Etrata, the silencer deck for which this is perfect, although letting opponents use black against me is still worth me being about to blink and bounce her as part of my deck construction.
Is this on short list of best EQ ever?
Cheaper than swords and protection from everything you want except yourself.
Except it's not good in commanders with 3 mana or more. Good chance it's pretty much irrelevant.
It's okay in 2 color decks, better in mono, and great in colorless. I wouldn't put that on a short list of best equipment.
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Currently Playing: Standard:
Nothing, the format Bores me! Legacy: RBurn (Made on the Cheap!)R RGBelcherRG WSoldier StompyW BReanimatorB EDH: BUGRWSliver OverlordWRGUB BGeth, Lord of the VaultB
So I have an Etrata, the silencer deck for which this is perfect, although letting opponents use black against me is still worth me being about to blink and bounce her as part of my deck construction.
That's a very cute use for this lol, I like it. Reminds me that this card would have been dramatically better with the 3 and 1 swapped.
You know, I ALWAYS forget she doesn't have flying and I can't be the only one.
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So you put a Sword of Feast and Famine on your commander, and they Swords your commander. Way to go.
Making any mono-colored commander extremely hard to get rid of or block makes for an excellent card in decks that want to equip their commander.
"I hope to have such a death... lying in triumph atop the broken bodies of those who slew me..."
So you attempt to equip your commander with plate and they swords it. Way to go.
The floor on this card is the same as the floor on swords: You get nothing.
The ceiling, and the average case even, on a sword is much MUCH MUCH higher.
How did they Swords my equipped mono-black commander?
Unless you're saying Swords in response to equip, in which case every equipment ever is terrible because you can always respond to the equip, making it pointless.
Once the card is equipped, I'd wager players would be much happier with "Protection from 4+ colors" than "Do this kind of decent thing only if you manage to land damage and protection from 2 specific colors".
On a different note, this exact conversation is why people need to have what type of Magic they play somewhere on their profile. If you play CEDH, and therefore 99.999999999999% of all cards printed will never see any play whatsoever because it doesn't combo kill the board on Turn 5 with Force of Will to back it up, then cards like this are terrible. So are the swords. And every equipment ever made except for maybe Skullclamp.
"I hope to have such a death... lying in triumph atop the broken bodies of those who slew me..."
Absolutely could not disagree more.
Your position that this is "Protection from 4+ colors" is ONLY relevant in 0-1 color decks. On average this is protection from 2-3 colors and no other value which is, objectively, dramatically less useful than protection from 2 colors AND getting two triggers worth of value off a sword. If the triggers weren't bonkers good on swords, they wouldn't be as popular as they are, so its really suspect to remove them from the equation.
Kroxa, Titan of Death's Hunger
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Kinnan, Bonder Prodigy
Toshiro Umezawa
Thraximundar
Jirina Kudro
Geist of Saint Traft
Krark, the Thumbless + Sakashima of a Thousand Faces
This site has me constantly saying "Some peoples' kids"
But your quote above claims that you would still rather run the swords in mono-color and colorless decks, and that players should only stoop to playing this card if they can't afford the swords. That's the issue I have with your statement.
On the topic of the swords, I never see any of them in EDH. The only equipment I see that isn't in a Voltron deck is Lightning Greaves, Swiftfoot Boots, Skullclamp, Cranial Plating, and occasionally Whispersilk Cloak.
According to EDHRec, the highest played Sword is Feast and Famine at 10th most played equipment, played in 4% of all decks. Fire and Ice is 16th. Light and Shadow is 21st. The two most played are Greaves (29% of decks) and Boots (21%). Notice that creature protection is what sees play.
While this card won't be nearly as good in 3-5 color commanders, it is a top tier protection choice for mono-color or colorless.
"I hope to have such a death... lying in triumph atop the broken bodies of those who slew me..."
If our discussion is about what sees more play (which I was unaware of that turning point in the conversation) then yes, Plate will probably see more play for the same reasons I mentioned above.
From a raw power-level perspective (which is the position I was arguing from) there really isn't much argument against swords just being dramatically better.
Pioneer:UR Pheonix
Modern:U Mono U Tron
EDH
GB Glissa, the traitor: Army of Cans
UW Dragonlord Ojutai: Dragonlord NOjutai
UWGDerevi, Empyrial Tactician "you cannot fight the storm"
R Zirilan of the claw. The solution to every problem is dragons
UB Etrata, the Silencer Cloning assassination
Peasant cube: Cards I own
Except it's not good in commanders with 3 mana or more. Good chance it's pretty much irrelevant.
It's okay in 2 color decks, better in mono, and great in colorless. I wouldn't put that on a short list of best equipment.
Currently Playing:
Standard:
Nothing, the format Bores me!
Legacy:
RBurn (Made on the Cheap!)R
RGBelcherRG
WSoldier StompyW
BReanimatorB
EDH:
BUGRWSliver OverlordWRGUB
BGeth, Lord of the VaultB
That's a very cute use for this lol, I like it. Reminds me that this card would have been dramatically better with the 3 and 1 swapped.
You know, I ALWAYS forget she doesn't have flying and I can't be the only one.