MTG Salvation

Quote from WarMachinePrime »

These aren't for me, I think their dumb BUT...........

I have a feeling this will be their best selling Secret Lair Drop. Time will tell.

Quote from The Magic Historian »

You may have noticed that there is a lot of conversation out there in the world going on around the Walking Dead Secret Lair and honestly the Walking Dead Secret Lair has illustrated to me that the EDH / Commander Rules Committee's days are numbered. This in my opinion is an inevitability. This isn't something I enjoy bringing to light and I really don't think people understand the magnitude of what's going on here because it does appear to me that people think that the Rules Committee has more power and influence over the game than they really do. So to understand why the Walking Dead Secret Lair is this pivotal moment that really is the first step down the road and actually may not even be the first step there may been other groundwork that leads to this that I haven't thought of.

But really the Walking Dead is a linchpin style moment. This is really going to be where things start to shift because of what it represents fundamentally. On the surface the Walking Dead Secret Lair is just that. It's just a Secret Lair themed around the Walking Dead so what's the big deal? The big deal is the functionally unique cards that were printed in these. These are cards that only exist with the abilities and everything like that on the cards in these Secret Lairs. There's no other way to obtain them. They're only going to be on sale for a week. Now we have seen functionally unique cards that you can only get in a very limited way already cause problems for Magic: The Gathering. Essentially the Walking Dead almost works like a Trojan horse. If you don't get what I'm trying to say here take a look at the Buy-a-Box Promos.

For the longest time in MTG's history, they did Buy-a-Box Promos that were just alternate art promo versions of a card that existed in the set and they returned to doing that. But for a brief period of time they made functionally unique cards that were legal in the Standard format that you could only get by buying a box. Now what did that lead to? That led to Nexus of Fate. Nexus of Fate was a HUGE problem for Magic: The Gathering but Nexus of Fate wasn't the first time they printed a functionally unique card for a Buy-a-Box Promo. So basically the first Buy-a-Box Promo they did that was functionally unique was fairly weak Firesong and Sunspeaker. Maybe I'll use this in Brawl or Commander or something like that but it wasn't an insanely overpowered card. It's basically like easing us into the well. That's what this is.

So the Walking Dead Secret Lair is just to get you accustomed to the concept that they will make Commander legal cards that are only available for a week right? And this is what people are upset about. This is just the gateway. When Wizards of the Coast brings something new in they present to us in a particular way and then change it. Secret Lair for example was presented to us as just as way to have different art styles and you see that's clearly not the case now. Mythic Rares were originally shown to us as something that were meant to be flashy Timmy cards that got people really excited but weren't meant to be strong enough to impact Standard and that changed. There's no reason not for them to ramp up the power of these functionally unique Commander cards. There's no reason. The incentive IS to ramp up the power level. Wizards of the Coast very much wants to move in on the Commander market.

They've signaled this in a ton of different ways. One is making announcements in earning reports and stuff like that. That Magic is growing on the back of Commander. From their statistics they're saying the Commander audience has grown four fold. I think really it's that they didn't understand how big the Commander audience was to start with. Commander is a big audience. That's why you'll see more and more products pitched towards Commander players. Brawl was an attempt to create a Standard rotate version of Commander where they can have cards obsoleted and get you running in that hamster wheel even further. Brawl in a way showed a fundamental lack of understanding why people played Commander, "How'd you like to play Commander with way fewer options and your deck well you won't get to keep it for the rest of your life?", scenario. So Brawl works on Arena but in Paper Magic it failed.

They basically just tried to grab some money from it. So Commander right now is Wizards of the Coast's main focus. They're working on Standard sets and everything else but the underline of what they're doing is focusing purely on Commander pretty much. That's why you see cards like Omnath in the Standard sets, they've said they even changed the way they designed sets to try to reach into other formats. Yes they want to reach into Modern. Yes they want to reach into Vintage. But where they really REALLY want to get to is Commander. Commander is the crown jewel. Cause If you took all MTG players and broke them down into different categories it's almost guaranteed that the Commander category would be bigger than ALL the other one's combined. Commander is a very cool and casual format. Up until now, all the rules decisions for it have been made by the Commander Rules Committee but their days are numbered.

Either they're going to be disbanded or they're going to be fully absorbed by Wizards of the Coast and essentially they may be like represented as a puppet. To me that's almost what they already are. Now let's make sure we're on the same page. I'm not knocking the Commander Rules Committee. Okay? Those are people who love Magic: The Gathering and they have basically fostered this format out of their own desire to see it flourish and have people play games of MTG which I love. I'm a fan of the Commander Rules Committee. I think the idea of them trying to keep Commander as fun as possible and have as light of a touch possible is a fantastic and admirable goal. However the problem isn't with the Rules Committee, the problem is with Wizards of the Coast and their absolute desire to make as much money as possible from Commander as we've seen with this new Secret Lair where they're trying to sell you Commander singles direct.

No longer are you going to have them coming from packs and whatever and reprint them as Secret Lairs, they're going to do it direct. Now a bunch of people have cried out to the Rules Committee for Commander saying, "We need you to send a strong message to Wizards of the Coast. We need you to ban all the cards in the Walking Dead Secret Lair so that Wizards of the Coast will get the message and not make any more of these Secret Lairs." Now this puts the Rules Committee in a really rough spot because the players are asking them to represent them but on the other hand they have Wizards. Let's be real, Wizards of the Coast LETS the Commander Committee run Commander. The Rules Committee isn't some more powerful entity. So If Wizards of the Coast wanted to locate all the Commander rules on their website like they their own decisions and do whatever they can do it like that (snap of a finger).

They can turn to the Rules Committee and say, "You're no longer in charge of Commander, WE ARE!" They've taken steps over time to show the level of influence and power they have over the format. So why wouldn't the Rules Committee WANT to work with Wizards of the Coast? So obviously they're eager to work with Wizards of the Coast. That's to Wizards of the Coast's advantage? Why? Free labor. Just look at this from the perspective of a large corporation that doesn't care about you specifically look at it from the perspective of upper management. These are the people that are going to be making the decisions that influence the future of MTG, Commander, the Rules Committee, all of that. What you need to understand about upper level management is that they don't care about anything but results right now. The way that corporations function in America is by working for this company for X amount of months and X amount of years.

During that time I'm going to make sure that the quarterly results go, "Bang! Bang! Bang!" The future doesn't matter because I'm only doing this now to plump up my resume and move on to another corporation where I get paid even more. So their view is only short term and it's ALL about the money. From that perspective up until this point having the Rules Committee has been great, it's just another way to take advantage of MTG Judges. All the members of the Rules Committee are at least previously high ranking MTG Judges. I don't know If they joined the new Judge Academy or kept their accreditation levels but either way these are high level judges. Judges have always been taken advantage of by MTG. Wizards of the Coast used judges as a free labor pool. Take it from somebody whose judged for 8 years for free out of love for the game. So the Rules Committee is going to do all the work of managing an entire format for you?

And you don't have to pay them or do anything? Why would you not take advantage of that? The answer is when it starts to affect your bottom line and affects your money right? So that's where this Walking Dead Secret Lair puts us because this is Wizards of the Coast saying, "Hey we're making singles directly for Commander". They may not be saying that outright but that's what's going on. "We're making cards for old Vintage formats!" You think people are going to be playing Negan in Vintage? No they're making Legendary characters like come on dude. This is clearly for Commander meant to be sold to Commander players. Now what happens from Wizards of the Coast's perspective If all the sudden this product that they've made, this spearhead of what's going to be an all going product line. What happens when the Commander Committee turns around and goes, "Actually you know what? We're banning all those cards! Don't you dare make another Secret Lair like the Walking Dead!"

Now do you think the upper management, the ones that don't care about anything other than getting as much money as possible from MTG players, do you think they're going to turn around and say, "You know what, Commander Rules Committee, we respect and abide by your decision and we won't make any more of these Secret Lairs" OR "Sorry run by me again what the Rules Committee is like what part of our company is this?" "Wait they're not a part of our company?" "So these decisions are being made by somebody who doesn't work for us? CANCEL THEM!" "Contact them! Tell them to stop using our trademark!" Cause Wizards of the Coast trademarked Commander (but not Elder Dragon Highlander a.ka. EDH). Why did they do that? So that Wizards of the Coast could trademark "Commander". So there's one instance of Wizards of the Coast's financial decisions influencing the Committee.

The bigger one was when Unstable was released. Wizards of the Coast convinced the Rules Committee to make Unstable legal for one month in Commander. So normally you couldn't use Un cards cause Commander has Rule Zero which everyone can agree to what they want to do at their own home or whatever. The Commander Committee came out and said, "Hey guess what? This products legal for the next month." Wizards of the Coast doesn't care If this ruins peoples' fun, they don't care If it calls into the ethics of the Committee. You know what I mean? You're sitting there making a decision that affects ALL players and well there's Rule Zero. So what's to stop them from going, "Well we're going to agree with whatever Wizards of the Coast says" because If the Un cards weren't legal then why isn't Wizards going to turn around and says, "You're done. You're not in charge anymore."

For those who would side with the Rules Committee on that you would for a little bit, but Wizards of the Coast would verbally take control of the format cause all information about it would be on their website. They have more reach, more resources, they own the property, there's no logical reason to think for a second that everybody would go with this independent group that most people probably don't even know. So Wizards of the Coast is in charge of the banlist? Cool at least we got Rule Zero now. The existence of Rule Zero can override anything so what do you even need the Rules Committee for? They exist right now because it's cheaper and easier for Wizards of the Coast to LET them exist but the Walking Dead Secret Lair is basically the crucial turning point where one of two things is happening.

We're now walking down the road where either the Rules Committee is going to be disbanded and Wizards of the Coast will take over fully or the Rules Committee is going to FULLY become pawns of Wizards of the Coast and rubber stamp everything they make and what's the difference? It's just for show. It's like, "Hey we're the power behind the throne!" kinda thing. At this point I really don't see any other route and I genuinely believe it's not logical to think for a second, "We as a people can go do whatever!" What you need to understand is well and I don't think a lot of people get this is we as a group. By us as a group I mean MTG players that engage online Social Media in terms of being really active on YouTube videos, talking on Twitter and Reddit, We all represent a very small portion of the MTG playing public. Most people who are using the Internet to interact with MTG are probably doing two things right now: Looking at new cards and checking rules.

So this whole loyalty to the Commander Rules Committee isn't a thing, it's not real. You're not living in reality. Reality is that Wizards of the Coast has turned from "Commander is something we just ignore and whatever, If stuff sells for you great!" into "Commander is one of our primary focuses. We intend to extract as much money as humanly possible from these people because Commander players aren't spending enough money so let's get more of it!" and that ultimately will lead to the ruin of the Rules Council. Either it will be puppets or they'll be destroyed. There is no other possible future. I'm not particularly happy about this because I liked Commander being it's own little sorta like fun club or whatever. Now Wizards of the Coast meddling with it too much it's like, dude this was all built without your influence and something beautiful was built, "Slowly but surely have Unstable be legal for a month is fun for our bottom line!" So If you want to understand the situation you have to look at it from a monetary perspective.

Quote from Duke Daemon »

EDIT: Wizards actual response https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vbHqUNl8YFk&ab_channel=antonio1111ization

Quote from Card Slinger J »

Could this set a precedent for Wizards of the Coast to take full control of the EDH / Commander format from the Rules Committee in the near future according to the Magic Historian?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2pXidDwNx0M[quote=The Magic Historian]

Quote from Neuroticneurok »

Part of me almost wishes the game would die as a result of making these cards, because if it doesn't it merely gives them more leeway to make even worse decisions.

The whole thing is depressing and confusing. It doesn't make sense apart from a cash grab point of view. These cards are mechanically unique and furthermore will not be printed again (barring a, God help us, TWD set). We haven't been able to determine their power level yet in terms of how necessary to a game-winning combo they are, but they have the potential to become key pieces. It's disgusting that Hasbro is just staring at us manically, shoving these in our face, and saying "Buy it. Or else."

These should never have been legal in the first place. They are monetizing legality and that sets a very dangerous precedent - there's nothing to stop them from printing a 1 generic mana card that says "When you cast this card, you win the game." and then charging whatever they want for it, all the while shamelessly urging people to buy with arbitrary purchasing times.

Quote from ForgottenPlaneswalker »

Quote from flaming infinity »

Every card is available for a limited time and in a limited quantity. This one is simply not sold in stores and is made in as large a quantitiy as desired unlike From the Vault or Commander Arsenal.

You --------------------------------------------------------------------------- the point of why this is controversial.

It's actually 2 cards total that really caused problems out of hundreds. True Name Nemesis did in legacy and Nexus of Fate did in standard. They obviously took a hint from Nexus and never released another exclusive BaB promo that caused problems.

If they took the hint, wouldn't we not have had a similar situation with this exact product?

People are blowing this way out of proportion and this is apparently 5 different unique cards and tokens for $50.

Didn't realize you were batting for WotC this hard. How much they paying you?

Its price per card isn't necessarily going to be any worse than lots of other exclusive product cards.

Bruh really? You for real? You going to clickity clack on your keyboard and tell me if some new exclusive card was like Uro or Oko or Lurrus (pre-nerf) levels in power but its from a Secret Lair, its just fine? Right?

They're also all legendary so far and probably not going to be played a ton other than as a commander.

So what your saying is they can print whatever dumb stuff for commander, because its commander, and nobody should really care about the format? And if causes harm to other formats, thats just collateral damage? Right?

Quote from FunkyDragon »

Quote from Phosphorus »

So I've given it a couple of days of thought, and my conclusion is twofold:

1. There are three-and-a-half major arguments for banning these in EDH.
2. None of them hold up.

1. "These are a cash grab/intentionally limited, so we should ban them on principle."

2. "TWD doesn't belong in Magic, so we should ban it on principle."

3. "The RC should be the voice of the community, and the majority has spoken for a bam."

3.5. "I don't like TWD."

So I read your post, and my conclusion is twofold:

1. You ignored several of the major arguments while misrepresenting or oversimplifying the ones you did list.
2. Of course they won't hold up when selecting the weakest arguments and not removing bias.

Just off the top of my head, here are some of the points you ignored:
- Broken promise - WOTC went into this knowing exactly what kind of backlash they got the last time they did a mechanically unique promo only available to limited people for a limited time and not in an actual expansion. They also knowingly broke their promise, made after that incident, to not do this again. We should not encourage this behavior.
- Limited global accessibility - Only available to players of certain nationalities. Don't live in the right country? No cards for you. Commander is a world-wide format, but now, not all cards are.
- Dangerous precedent - Remember True-Name Nemesis? Nexus of Fate? What happens when they print a staple this way, but again, only people who were in the right country at the right time with the extra spending cash could get it because it wasn't in a product in stores?
- Speaking of stores - Selling mechanically unique cards from their website that cuts out the LGS distribution model, without functionally equivalent versions elsewhere. Previous Secret Lairs offered alternate art on cards already in the LGS. This does not.
- There are several other arguments (probably a good dozen floating around), but I feel these are some of the stronger ones that you ignored. This list is by no means exhaustive.

Quote from Dontrike »

Quote from WarMachinePrime »

These aren't for me, I think their dumb BUT...........

I have a feeling this will be their best selling Secret Lair Drop. Time will tell.

It will absolutely sell well and will be amazing for the company. Whales are the reason Secret Lairs keep going strong and keep breeding like rabbits, it's why we've had 28 of them in less than a year already and I'm sure we still have another 4-8 to go before we even get to this product line's first birthday.

This will sell well and it wouldn't surprise me if we get a Harry Potter Secret Lair for Strixhaven with legendary equipment with the Cloak of Invisibility, Horcrux, that wand, legendary instant Deus Ex Machina, legendary creature Hermoine, the Actual Main Character, and see the famous moment of wizards defecating in the street and poofing the feces away (this last one fits perfectly).

Quote from Ryperior74 »

Wait...

Omg did anybody even notice the holo symbol on the bottom of the cards

It's a triangle instead of a oval

Folks consider those as silver border