Hype is on, I was looking forward to this set since it was announced and I want to see more spoilers already
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“There are no weak Jews. I am descended from those who wrestle angels and kill giants. We were chosen by God. You were chosen by a pathetic little man who can't seem to grow a full mustache"
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
Magic has been super dead for me. While I'm still excited to look at new cards I'm not playing very much. They seriously need to cool it with the product release or re-organize the product releases in a way that makes sense.
Legit, I still haven't played anything from Ikoria yet, and barely played with Theros before lockdown. Obviously WotC couldn't have planned for a pandemic, and as a business they're not inclined to slow down a product release schedule, I'm just getting to the point where I just may not catch up. I likely won't see my playgroup until the new year at the earliest (we have immuno-compromised people in the group, and several of us work with youth/in schools/with the unhoused so there's some concerns around risk) and everyone in the group is on the same page. Still excited for the new cards, but between lack of play and reduced luxury spending budgets I don't see anyone in my group buying a lot of the 2020 products anytime soon. By the time I figure we'll be playing again, I'll have Ikoria through to (probably) the D&D set to catch up on, that's 10+ product releases which is an overwhelming number. I don't know how I'll be able to do much beyond get singles to slot into existing decks, it'd be too much to try to build a bunch of new decks around new commanders/themes from almost a dozen releases.
I don't know what to say about it. I'm excited for new cards, but that's tempered somewhat by a lack of play to warrant buying them and a lack of cash to actually buy them with. Who knows, maybe by the time I can justify catching up on all the sets I missed, the single prices will be really down and I'll have more disposable income.
Magic has been super dead for me. While I'm still excited to look at new cards I'm not playing very much. They seriously need to cool it with the product release or re-organize the product releases in a way that makes sense. Cut the booster box level releases to 4x a year at the most. Then if they want to release a new secret lair every month sure.
There were 8x booster box types sets this year. It has to stop.
You want WotC to slow down their product roll of products you don’t buy and have no attention of buying anytime soon? Makes plenty of sense to me.
Who knows, maybe by the time I can justify catching up on all the sets I missed, the single prices will be really down and I'll have more disposable income.
This doesn't seem like a thoroughly unreasonable expectation, to be honest. I generally pick up my EDH singles in semiannual batches anyways.
Magic has been super dead for me. While I'm still excited to look at new cards I'm not playing very much. They seriously need to cool it with the product release or re-organize the product releases in a way that makes sense. Cut the booster box level releases to 4x a year at the most. Then if they want to release a new secret lair every month sure.
There were 8x booster box types sets this year. It has to stop.
You want WotC to slow down their product roll of products you don’t buy and have no attention of buying anytime soon? Makes plenty of sense to me.
well... i think that plays into a larger point and isn't necessarily fair to write it all off like that
we were talking about it in a local shop yesterday. we're just absolutely bombarded with products, but those products over the past year seem to have lost focus. theyre oriented more around chasing a gimmick, or chasing mythics, than producing something higher quality that people want to buy repeatedly on its own merit. one great point the store owner brought up is that his newer customers and less whale-like customers end up feeling overwhelmed with product options. they come in to buy some packs, but they can buy these other packs for just a few dollars more that'll have more of this other thing in it, and for a few dollars more than that they can buy a different pack of the same set that has even more odds of getting this or that. trouble is, then they feel the lower priced product isn't worth it, and the higher priced product is priced too high so they walk away feeling ripped off no matter which option they go for. he's also sold out on a ton of product before most can even get it because whales will come in and buy it all to get those few hot cards, or conversely someone who isn't a whale gets really lucky and cracks some alt art foil showcase card and comes back to buy him out just like people do when they win money on scratchers. while product is moving faster and better, there is definitely an atmosphere of discontent and being overwhelmed by those that aren't getting lucky and those are the customers that have come in less.
it'd be great if there were fewer releases, but at a higher quality. more exploration of themes, less need to ban, more power across all rarities. i mean, some of these sets you still can't find but we're on to the next one before anyone can even realize it. it means the people with the money, who preordered, get to experience it and most others simply don't.
they've pushed the you're going to miss out angle so hard, and after awhile people feel like they are missing out... so what's the point? why keep buying? why keep maintaining? but those are the customers they dont' hear from, they just drop off as other people buy more which presents really flawed sales data. you can sell a ton of product and still have an unhealthy game.
i'd also wager this is a huge reason commander has surged in popularity recently. the toxic standard environments necessitating ban waves, the lack of support for other formats, the product bombardment, throw in some covid canceling limited events and what are people going to play? the nonrotating format that covers the breadth of their collection, which will be at hand, and they can play with friends at home or over discord.
anyway, regarding spoilers for this set... i'm cautiously pessimistic.
i want to hope for the best, i want something amazing, something that i'll want to buy cases of, but given the track record i don't expect it. i don't even expect to be able to find the product without preordering. what i do expect is to see some mediocre reprints that no one really needed, a lack of power at common and uncommon, some creative ideas that were reigned in really hard at rare, some absolutely format warping cards at mythic or a couple of extremely in demand reprints at mythic... and not much else. i think its really safe to assume if its been reprint this year already it won't be reprint here, and that knocks out a tremendous amount of cards that edh players actually want. the admittedly miniscule number of spoilers we've already received haven't really done anything to spark interest in me yet because it feels like more of the same, and this is really the only format i even play any more.
the product fatigue is real even here, where it should be hype instead. there is just so much printed lately, and so much printed with an edh slant, that it has become difficult to keep up - not just with the information, but the ever changing introduction of new powerful cards (mostly at mythic) aimed squarely at edh players. there's a point where simply too much product competes for the same dollars, and once you hit that point it becomes really easy to just walk away in favor of something that won't feel like a wallet vacuum.
Magic has been super dead for me. While I'm still excited to look at new cards I'm not playing very much. They seriously need to cool it with the product release or re-organize the product releases in a way that makes sense. Cut the booster box level releases to 4x a year at the most. Then if they want to release a new secret lair every month sure.
There were 8x booster box types sets this year. It has to stop.
You want WotC to slow down their product roll of products you don’t buy and have no attention of buying anytime soon? Makes plenty of sense to me.
well... i think that plays into a larger point and isn't necessarily fair to write it all off like that
we were talking about it in a local shop yesterday. we're just absolutely bombarded with products, but those products over the past year seem to have lost focus. theyre oriented more around chasing a gimmick, or chasing mythics, than producing something higher quality that people want to buy repeatedly on its own merit. one great point the store owner brought up is that his newer customers and less whale-like customers end up feeling overwhelmed with product options. they come in to buy some packs, but they can buy these other packs for just a few dollars more that'll have more of this other thing in it, and for a few dollars more than that they can buy a different pack of the same set that has even more odds of getting this or that. trouble is, then they feel the lower priced product isn't worth it, and the higher priced product is priced too high so they walk away feeling ripped off no matter which option they go for. he's also sold out on a ton of product before most can even get it because whales will come in and buy it all to get those few hot cards, or conversely someone who isn't a whale gets really lucky and cracks some alt art foil showcase card and comes back to buy him out just like people do when they win money on scratchers. while product is moving faster and better, there is definitely an atmosphere of discontent and being overwhelmed by those that aren't getting lucky and those are the customers that have come in less.
it'd be great if there were fewer releases, but at a higher quality. more exploration of themes, less need to ban, more power across all rarities. i mean, some of these sets you still can't find but we're on to the next one before anyone can even realize it. it means the people with the money, who preordered, get to experience it and most others simply don't.
they've pushed the you're going to miss out angle so hard, and after awhile people feel like they are missing out... so what's the point? why keep buying? why keep maintaining? but those are the customers they dont' hear from, they just drop off as other people buy more which presents really flawed sales data. you can sell a ton of product and still have an unhealthy game.
i'd also wager this is a huge reason commander has surged in popularity recently. the toxic standard environments necessitating ban waves, the lack of support for other formats, the product bombardment, throw in some covid canceling limited events and what are people going to play? the nonrotating format that covers the breadth of their collection, which will be at hand, and they can play with friends at home or over discord.
anyway, regarding spoilers for this set... i'm cautiously pessimistic.
i want to hope for the best, i want something amazing, something that i'll want to buy cases of, but given the track record i don't expect it. i don't even expect to be able to find the product without preordering. what i do expect is to see some mediocre reprints that no one really needed, a lack of power at common and uncommon, some creative ideas that were reigned in really hard at rare, some absolutely format warping cards at mythic or a couple of extremely in demand reprints at mythic... and not much else. i think its really safe to assume if its been reprint this year already it won't be reprint here, and that knocks out a tremendous amount of cards that edh players actually want. the admittedly miniscule number of spoilers we've already received haven't really done anything to spark interest in me yet because it feels like more of the same, and this is really the only format i even play any more.
the product fatigue is real even here, where it should be hype instead. there is just so much printed lately, and so much printed with an edh slant, that it has become difficult to keep up - not just with the information, but the ever changing introduction of new powerful cards (mostly at mythic) aimed squarely at edh players. there's a point where simply too much product competes for the same dollars, and once you hit that point it becomes really easy to just walk away in favor of something that won't feel like a wallet vacuum.
I never understood this argument of “I have to keep up with the Joneses” in Magic. That may have included me back in ‘03, but nowadays I have a strict shopping list I adhere to and I never deviate from it when new premier sets come out. If something new is released I have to have, very cool, it gets added. But people may want to be more disciplined in what they chase after. The only way new things get added to my buy list is if WotC releases products the way that they do.
I remember waiting mo ths for spoilers and sometimes the anticipation would kill me. There were times when WotC would say absolutely nothing about the new set until it was at your front door. Now, people complain because they see too many new cards too often. Im not sure this is actually a problem.
we were talking about it in a local shop yesterday. we're just absolutely bombarded with products, but those products over the past year seem to have lost focus.
How so? It seems to me that having more products each with its own specific purpose is indicative of more focus, not less.
Quote from Xcric »
one great point the store owner brought up is that his newer customers and less whale-like customers end up feeling overwhelmed with product options. they come in to buy some packs, but they can buy these other packs for just a few dollars more that'll have more of this other thing in it, and for a few dollars more than that they can buy a different pack of the same set that has even more odds of getting this or that.
Isn't it sort of the shop owner's responsibility to educate his/her customers, though? To be able to foster good marketing decisions for their continued patronage?
Quote from Xcric »
trouble is, then they feel the lower priced product isn't worth it, and the higher priced product is priced too high so they walk away feeling ripped off no matter which option they go for.
I mean, that's what happens when you play the lottery, regardless of pack price. If there's no inherent value in a basic pack, though, what are you doing cracking them at all? We're talking about a product that hasn't fundamentally changed in over 25 years, not a lot of room for surprises there.
Quote from Xcric »
he's also sold out on a ton of product before most can even get it because whales will come in and buy it all to get those few hot cards, or conversely someone who isn't a whale gets really lucky and cracks some alt art foil showcase card and comes back to buy him out just like people do when they win money on scratchers. while product is moving faster and better, there is definitely an atmosphere of discontent and being overwhelmed by those that aren't getting lucky and those are the customers that have come in less.
So when people figure out that it's better to buy singles instead of packs they just stop coming to the store? Is that because your store doesn't stock singles, or because it doesn't stock non-Magic product? I'm trying to figure out why the shop is ultimately getting less business (during a pandemic, of all things) as a consequence of what happens to all savvy Magic players eventually.
Quote from Xcric »
it'd be great if there were fewer releases, but at a higher quality. more exploration of themes, less need to ban, more power across all rarities.
I don't see how those two things are mutually exclusive.
Quote from Xcric »
i mean, some of these sets you still can't find but we're on to the next one before anyone can even realize it. it means the people with the money, who preordered, get to experience it and most others simply don't.
Sure, this is a real problem... but we know the fault lies with how Covid has affected the production / distribution chain, not anything Wizards has done, intentionally or otherwise.
Quote from Xcric »
they've pushed the you're going to miss out angle so hard, and after awhile people feel like they are missing out... so what's the point? why keep buying? why keep maintaining? but those are the customers they dont' hear from, they just drop off as other people buy more which presents really flawed sales data. you can sell a ton of product and still have an unhealthy game.
Are we talking about Secret Lairs, or Magic in general? Because I disagree with the former, and don't see how it applies to the latter. If there's actual data to suggest people who feel the need to collect everything represent a silent majority, and that they're being driven out of the game as a consequence of limited product availability, I'd like to see it.
Quote from Xcric »
anyway, regarding spoilers for this set... i'm cautiously pessimistic.
i want to hope for the best, i want something amazing, something that i'll want to buy cases of, but given the track record i don't expect it.
I'm confused. You take issue generally with the lottery model, but you still want to have a reason to go out and buy tons of sealed product?
Quote from Xcric »
i don't even expect to be able to find the product without preordering. what i do expect is to see some mediocre reprints that no one really needed, a lack of power at common and uncommon, some creative ideas that were reigned in really hard at rare, some absolutely format warping cards at mythic or a couple of extremely in demand reprints at mythic... and not much else.
Good! If reality matches your expectations then you'll be less frustrated, and if it exceeds them then we can all expect to see you come back afterwards and offer something positive on these message boards.
Quote from Xcric »
the product fatigue is real even here, where it should be hype instead. there is just so much printed lately, and so much printed with an edh slant, that it has become difficult to keep up - not just with the information, but the ever changing introduction of new powerful cards (mostly at mythic) aimed squarely at edh players. there's a point where simply too much product competes for the same dollars, and once you hit that point it becomes really easy to just walk away in favor of something that won't feel like a wallet vacuum.
Are you actually fatigued from purchasing all of these products that you allegedly can't get a hold of, or is the fatigue hypothetical?
I remember waiting mo ths for spoilers and sometimes the anticipation would kill me. There were times when WotC would say absolutely nothing about the new set until it was at your front door. Now, people complain because they see too many new cards too often. Im not sure this is actually a problem.
I know no matter what they do Even if they do something exactly what people want they refuse to be happy it’s what internet people do.
“There are no weak Jews. I am descended from those who wrestle angels and kill giants. We were chosen by God. You were chosen by a pathetic little man who can't seem to grow a full mustache"
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
Spoiler Season is Eternal.
Spoiler Season is Always.
Can't let you catch breath, spoil, spoil, spoil, consume, consume, consume!!!!!!
And I'm sure between now and then we'll have 2-5 Secret Lairs spoiled that they can't ship until March of next year.
Amazing with a plague, protesting, an election year and you really needed to come to a magic forum to look for a reason to ***** huh?
It's a joke, not a <expletive D-eleted>, don't take it so hard. Also, no idea what those things have to do with anything when it comes to a game, but good on you for bringing those up. "There are worse things out there so you can't complain" is one of the worst arguments ever. Yay for you for not being able to see a joke and also <expletive deleted>'ing about something at the same time even though you're lambasting me for doing said <expletive deleted>. Congrats!
we were talking about it in a local shop yesterday. we're just absolutely bombarded with products, but those products over the past year seem to have lost focus.
How so? It seems to me that having more products each with its own specific purpose is indicative of more focus, not less.
Quote from Xcric »
one great point the store owner brought up is that his newer customers and less whale-like customers end up feeling overwhelmed with product options. they come in to buy some packs, but they can buy these other packs for just a few dollars more that'll have more of this other thing in it, and for a few dollars more than that they can buy a different pack of the same set that has even more odds of getting this or that.
Isn't it sort of the shop owner's responsibility to educate his/her customers, though? To be able to foster good marketing decisions for their continued patronage?
Quote from Xcric »
trouble is, then they feel the lower priced product isn't worth it, and the higher priced product is priced too high so they walk away feeling ripped off no matter which option they go for.
I mean, that's what happens when you play the lottery, regardless of pack price. If there's no inherent value in a basic pack, though, what are you doing cracking them at all? We're talking about a product that hasn't fundamentally changed in over 25 years, not a lot of room for surprises there.
Quote from Xcric »
he's also sold out on a ton of product before most can even get it because whales will come in and buy it all to get those few hot cards, or conversely someone who isn't a whale gets really lucky and cracks some alt art foil showcase card and comes back to buy him out just like people do when they win money on scratchers. while product is moving faster and better, there is definitely an atmosphere of discontent and being overwhelmed by those that aren't getting lucky and those are the customers that have come in less.
So when people figure out that it's better to buy singles instead of packs they just stop coming to the store? Is that because your store doesn't stock singles, or because it doesn't stock non-Magic product? I'm trying to figure out why the shop is ultimately getting less business (during a pandemic, of all things) as a consequence of what happens to all savvy Magic players eventually.
Quote from Xcric »
it'd be great if there were fewer releases, but at a higher quality. more exploration of themes, less need to ban, more power across all rarities.
I don't see how those two things are mutually exclusive.
Quote from Xcric »
i mean, some of these sets you still can't find but we're on to the next one before anyone can even realize it. it means the people with the money, who preordered, get to experience it and most others simply don't.
Sure, this is a real problem... but we know the fault lies with how Covid has affected the production / distribution chain, not anything Wizards has done, intentionally or otherwise.
Quote from Xcric »
they've pushed the you're going to miss out angle so hard, and after awhile people feel like they are missing out... so what's the point? why keep buying? why keep maintaining? but those are the customers they dont' hear from, they just drop off as other people buy more which presents really flawed sales data. you can sell a ton of product and still have an unhealthy game.
Are we talking about Secret Lairs, or Magic in general? Because I disagree with the former, and don't see how it applies to the latter. If there's actual data to suggest people who feel the need to collect everything represent a silent majority, and that they're being driven out of the game as a consequence of limited product availability, I'd like to see it.
Quote from Xcric »
anyway, regarding spoilers for this set... i'm cautiously pessimistic.
i want to hope for the best, i want something amazing, something that i'll want to buy cases of, but given the track record i don't expect it.
I'm confused. You take issue generally with the lottery model, but you still want to have a reason to go out and buy tons of sealed product?
Quote from Xcric »
i don't even expect to be able to find the product without preordering. what i do expect is to see some mediocre reprints that no one really needed, a lack of power at common and uncommon, some creative ideas that were reigned in really hard at rare, some absolutely format warping cards at mythic or a couple of extremely in demand reprints at mythic... and not much else.
Good! If reality matches your expectations then you'll be less frustrated, and if it exceeds them then we can all expect to see you come back afterwards and offer something positive on these message boards.
Quote from Xcric »
the product fatigue is real even here, where it should be hype instead. there is just so much printed lately, and so much printed with an edh slant, that it has become difficult to keep up - not just with the information, but the ever changing introduction of new powerful cards (mostly at mythic) aimed squarely at edh players. there's a point where simply too much product competes for the same dollars, and once you hit that point it becomes really easy to just walk away in favor of something that won't feel like a wallet vacuum.
Are you actually fatigued from purchasing all of these products that you allegedly can't get a hold of, or is the fatigue hypothetical?
it would actually be both.
here's a bunch of products you want to buy, but you can't find them, or maybe you can so buy them when you see them, better get them now because you won't find them later, by the way here's another new product chock full of new cards!
here's a bunch of cards you want to buy, but we're moving into another set of spoilers in just 4 weeks, so better get them now before the list gets even longer of singles you want. oh, you missed out on that one from that set that sold like fire that you didn't preorder and can't find anywhere? guess you'll have to buy it for $50+ dollars.
you want that secret lair at an affordable rate? here's 1 day to buy it! consume!
one of the points i hadn't even considered until i heard it from a few shop owners is... well wtf do you even suggest to a new player any more? commander precons aren't standard legal. challenger decks are released so late in the cycle they're out dated. there's draft, set, and premium boosters which all come across as overwhelming to someone new and you cant even build a deck from them unless you buy a metric ****ton of them. the entire game has shifted to focus entirely on whales and has frankly left everyone else behind.
there is zero time to digest. every deck feels like its in a constant state of repair/improvement, all the time. all of this while standard becomes really stagnant and necessitates wave after wave of bannings which drives people into other formats or you know, to games that don't do that.
its just a series of very greedy decisions.
look i'm not the only person complaining about this problem, and i'm perfectly capable of being able to get whatever i want in the quantities i want - that's irrelevant to the discussion. what is relevant is the feeling of fatigue. that fatigue is proven every single day. not just here. not just by me. almost every social media post brings up these same issues. facebook, instagram, twitter, all of them have posters raising the issue. shop owners bring up the problem. their customers talk to them about the problem. it IS a problem. you can think it whinging on the internet all you want, but there is a growing number of people in the community that are seeing it as a real issue. that's just something the community needs to start accepting and legitimately start discussing because on a long enough timeline people just walk away from the game. we've seen this in the past already.
then again, the magic community has a history of burying its head in the sand as players walk away. a history of saying well more for me, and then being surprised events stop firing or their lgs goes under. nothing new here.
edit: i just noticed you attacked almost every point individually, and i don't care enough to refute all of those points. its very clear you don't see it as a problem and frankly that's pretty ignorant when there are so many saying it is a problem. i can't make you see that at this point because you don't want to. that's been made pretty clear by your approach every single time this problem has been discussed anywhere.
If you want to let my points stand on their own merit, uncontested, then you've already conceded the argument. You haven't presented any data apart from your own say-so and some confirmation bias, so no, I don't see it as a problem. It's really not ignorant for me to disagree with a point you've failed to substantiate on a factual level. I think it's been made pretty clear by my approach every single time that your generally pessimistic attitude is unwarranted, and if you don't care to put in the time and energy to properly refute that... well, that's on you.
I come here to talk about Magic because I enjoy the game. I don't really share any empathy with those who come here only to complain; voicing your concerns here, repetitively and without substance, is about as productive as shouting into an empty bucket of KFC.
We can go back to talking about Magic now. Any further attacks on my character will be met with a quiet report.
I for one also think there is way too much product churning out of WotC's printers. It's relentless and you can't enjoy your new toys for more than a month before more come out.
However, I have been waiting a long time for this commander specific release. I hope it lives up to my expectations, as this has really tickled my curiosity since it was announced. The rare land cycle already spoiled has me salivating... Can't wait to see the rest!
If you want to let my points stand on their own merit, uncontested, then you've already conceded the argument. You haven't presented any data apart from your own say-so and some confirmation bias, so no, I don't see it as a problem. It's really not ignorant for me to disagree with a point you've failed to substantiate on a factual level. I think it's been made pretty clear by my approach every single time that your generally pessimistic attitude is unwarranted, and if you don't care to put in the time and energy to properly refute that... well, that's on you.
I come here to talk about Magic because I enjoy the game. I don't really share any empathy with those who come here only to complain; voicing your concerns here, repetitively and without substance, is about as productive as shouting into an empty bucket of KFC.
We can go back to talking about Magic now. Any further attacks on my character will be met with a quiet report.
Talking about the parts of the game that are a problem, or arent enjoyable, is still talking about magic. Sorry bro, ya gotta accept that.
Say you like ice cream. It's your favorite food. But you only eat it once a week. If you eat ice cream everyday it would stop being your favorite food. You'd be sick of it. Wizards is trying to feed us ice cream for breakfast, lunch and dinner.
If you're an adult and have money, I expect that you should be able to exercise fiscal restraint. If not, pointing the finger elsewhere is demonstrably counterproductive. You have to eat; you don't have to buy cards.
Quote from SpeedGrapher »
Their bribing the government to make ice cream a required food group.
Uhhhh... I'm sorry, what is this supposed to be analogous to?
I think we're at a bit of a disconnect about who needs to be more accepting. You're entitled to your opinion, sure, I'm just trying to dissuade you from the belief that everyone else shares it too. Magic is fine (fact), but if you're going to be upset about each new release, well... ya gotta accept that, bro. Or learn to live with being miserable all the time.
Announced by Blake on mtg's twitch
Pre-release is October 30th they always start preview season two weeks in advance on a Monday (usually)
And that happens to hit October 12
Spoiler Season is Always.
Can't let you catch breath, spoil, spoil, spoil, consume, consume, consume!!!!!!
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Kenessos, Priest of Thassa (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||
And I'm sure between now and then we'll have 2-5 Secret Lairs spoiled that they can't ship until March of next year.
Legit, I still haven't played anything from Ikoria yet, and barely played with Theros before lockdown. Obviously WotC couldn't have planned for a pandemic, and as a business they're not inclined to slow down a product release schedule, I'm just getting to the point where I just may not catch up. I likely won't see my playgroup until the new year at the earliest (we have immuno-compromised people in the group, and several of us work with youth/in schools/with the unhoused so there's some concerns around risk) and everyone in the group is on the same page. Still excited for the new cards, but between lack of play and reduced luxury spending budgets I don't see anyone in my group buying a lot of the 2020 products anytime soon. By the time I figure we'll be playing again, I'll have Ikoria through to (probably) the D&D set to catch up on, that's 10+ product releases which is an overwhelming number. I don't know how I'll be able to do much beyond get singles to slot into existing decks, it'd be too much to try to build a bunch of new decks around new commanders/themes from almost a dozen releases.
I don't know what to say about it. I'm excited for new cards, but that's tempered somewhat by a lack of play to warrant buying them and a lack of cash to actually buy them with. Who knows, maybe by the time I can justify catching up on all the sets I missed, the single prices will be really down and I'll have more disposable income.
Archatmos
Excellion
Fracture: Israfiel (WBR), Wujal (URG), Valedon (GUB), Amduat (BGW), Paladris (RWU)
Collision (Set Two of the Fracture Block)
Quest for the Forsaken (Set Two of the Excellion Block)
Katingal: Plane of Chains
I honestly don't think party is that bad just because there are so many creatures of those types already. Its not hard to make a decent party deck.
Dunes of Zairo
SHANDALAR
Innistrad - The Darkest Night
~THE RAVNICAN CONSORTIUM~
A Community Set
Commander: Allies & Adversaries
You want WotC to slow down their product roll of products you don’t buy and have no attention of buying anytime soon? Makes plenty of sense to me.
This doesn't seem like a thoroughly unreasonable expectation, to be honest. I generally pick up my EDH singles in semiannual batches anyways.
---
#BLM
#DefundThePolice
well... i think that plays into a larger point and isn't necessarily fair to write it all off like that
we were talking about it in a local shop yesterday. we're just absolutely bombarded with products, but those products over the past year seem to have lost focus. theyre oriented more around chasing a gimmick, or chasing mythics, than producing something higher quality that people want to buy repeatedly on its own merit. one great point the store owner brought up is that his newer customers and less whale-like customers end up feeling overwhelmed with product options. they come in to buy some packs, but they can buy these other packs for just a few dollars more that'll have more of this other thing in it, and for a few dollars more than that they can buy a different pack of the same set that has even more odds of getting this or that. trouble is, then they feel the lower priced product isn't worth it, and the higher priced product is priced too high so they walk away feeling ripped off no matter which option they go for. he's also sold out on a ton of product before most can even get it because whales will come in and buy it all to get those few hot cards, or conversely someone who isn't a whale gets really lucky and cracks some alt art foil showcase card and comes back to buy him out just like people do when they win money on scratchers. while product is moving faster and better, there is definitely an atmosphere of discontent and being overwhelmed by those that aren't getting lucky and those are the customers that have come in less.
it'd be great if there were fewer releases, but at a higher quality. more exploration of themes, less need to ban, more power across all rarities. i mean, some of these sets you still can't find but we're on to the next one before anyone can even realize it. it means the people with the money, who preordered, get to experience it and most others simply don't.
they've pushed the you're going to miss out angle so hard, and after awhile people feel like they are missing out... so what's the point? why keep buying? why keep maintaining? but those are the customers they dont' hear from, they just drop off as other people buy more which presents really flawed sales data. you can sell a ton of product and still have an unhealthy game.
i'd also wager this is a huge reason commander has surged in popularity recently. the toxic standard environments necessitating ban waves, the lack of support for other formats, the product bombardment, throw in some covid canceling limited events and what are people going to play? the nonrotating format that covers the breadth of their collection, which will be at hand, and they can play with friends at home or over discord.
anyway, regarding spoilers for this set... i'm cautiously pessimistic.
i want to hope for the best, i want something amazing, something that i'll want to buy cases of, but given the track record i don't expect it. i don't even expect to be able to find the product without preordering. what i do expect is to see some mediocre reprints that no one really needed, a lack of power at common and uncommon, some creative ideas that were reigned in really hard at rare, some absolutely format warping cards at mythic or a couple of extremely in demand reprints at mythic... and not much else. i think its really safe to assume if its been reprint this year already it won't be reprint here, and that knocks out a tremendous amount of cards that edh players actually want. the admittedly miniscule number of spoilers we've already received haven't really done anything to spark interest in me yet because it feels like more of the same, and this is really the only format i even play any more.
the product fatigue is real even here, where it should be hype instead. there is just so much printed lately, and so much printed with an edh slant, that it has become difficult to keep up - not just with the information, but the ever changing introduction of new powerful cards (mostly at mythic) aimed squarely at edh players. there's a point where simply too much product competes for the same dollars, and once you hit that point it becomes really easy to just walk away in favor of something that won't feel like a wallet vacuum.
I never understood this argument of “I have to keep up with the Joneses” in Magic. That may have included me back in ‘03, but nowadays I have a strict shopping list I adhere to and I never deviate from it when new premier sets come out. If something new is released I have to have, very cool, it gets added. But people may want to be more disciplined in what they chase after. The only way new things get added to my buy list is if WotC releases products the way that they do.
Dunes of Zairo
SHANDALAR
Innistrad - The Darkest Night
~THE RAVNICAN CONSORTIUM~
A Community Set
Commander: Allies & Adversaries
How so? It seems to me that having more products each with its own specific purpose is indicative of more focus, not less.
Isn't it sort of the shop owner's responsibility to educate his/her customers, though? To be able to foster good marketing decisions for their continued patronage?
I mean, that's what happens when you play the lottery, regardless of pack price. If there's no inherent value in a basic pack, though, what are you doing cracking them at all? We're talking about a product that hasn't fundamentally changed in over 25 years, not a lot of room for surprises there.
So when people figure out that it's better to buy singles instead of packs they just stop coming to the store? Is that because your store doesn't stock singles, or because it doesn't stock non-Magic product? I'm trying to figure out why the shop is ultimately getting less business (during a pandemic, of all things) as a consequence of what happens to all savvy Magic players eventually.
I don't see how those two things are mutually exclusive.
Sure, this is a real problem... but we know the fault lies with how Covid has affected the production / distribution chain, not anything Wizards has done, intentionally or otherwise.
Are we talking about Secret Lairs, or Magic in general? Because I disagree with the former, and don't see how it applies to the latter. If there's actual data to suggest people who feel the need to collect everything represent a silent majority, and that they're being driven out of the game as a consequence of limited product availability, I'd like to see it.
I'm confused. You take issue generally with the lottery model, but you still want to have a reason to go out and buy tons of sealed product?
Good! If reality matches your expectations then you'll be less frustrated, and if it exceeds them then we can all expect to see you come back afterwards and offer something positive on these message boards.
Are you actually fatigued from purchasing all of these products that you allegedly can't get a hold of, or is the fatigue hypothetical?
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#BLM
#DefundThePolice
Amazing with a plague, protesting, an election year and you really needed to come to a magic forum to look for a reason to ***** huh?
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
It's a joke, not a <expletive D-eleted>, don't take it so hard. Also, no idea what those things have to do with anything when it comes to a game, but good on you for bringing those up. "There are worse things out there so you can't complain" is one of the worst arguments ever. Yay for you for not being able to see a joke and also <expletive deleted>'ing about something at the same time even though you're lambasting me for doing said <expletive deleted>. Congrats!
it would actually be both.
here's a bunch of products you want to buy, but you can't find them, or maybe you can so buy them when you see them, better get them now because you won't find them later, by the way here's another new product chock full of new cards!
here's a bunch of cards you want to buy, but we're moving into another set of spoilers in just 4 weeks, so better get them now before the list gets even longer of singles you want. oh, you missed out on that one from that set that sold like fire that you didn't preorder and can't find anywhere? guess you'll have to buy it for $50+ dollars.
you want that secret lair at an affordable rate? here's 1 day to buy it! consume!
one of the points i hadn't even considered until i heard it from a few shop owners is... well wtf do you even suggest to a new player any more? commander precons aren't standard legal. challenger decks are released so late in the cycle they're out dated. there's draft, set, and premium boosters which all come across as overwhelming to someone new and you cant even build a deck from them unless you buy a metric ****ton of them. the entire game has shifted to focus entirely on whales and has frankly left everyone else behind.
there is zero time to digest. every deck feels like its in a constant state of repair/improvement, all the time. all of this while standard becomes really stagnant and necessitates wave after wave of bannings which drives people into other formats or you know, to games that don't do that.
its just a series of very greedy decisions.
look i'm not the only person complaining about this problem, and i'm perfectly capable of being able to get whatever i want in the quantities i want - that's irrelevant to the discussion. what is relevant is the feeling of fatigue. that fatigue is proven every single day. not just here. not just by me. almost every social media post brings up these same issues. facebook, instagram, twitter, all of them have posters raising the issue. shop owners bring up the problem. their customers talk to them about the problem. it IS a problem. you can think it whinging on the internet all you want, but there is a growing number of people in the community that are seeing it as a real issue. that's just something the community needs to start accepting and legitimately start discussing because on a long enough timeline people just walk away from the game. we've seen this in the past already.
then again, the magic community has a history of burying its head in the sand as players walk away. a history of saying well more for me, and then being surprised events stop firing or their lgs goes under. nothing new here.
edit: i just noticed you attacked almost every point individually, and i don't care enough to refute all of those points. its very clear you don't see it as a problem and frankly that's pretty ignorant when there are so many saying it is a problem. i can't make you see that at this point because you don't want to. that's been made pretty clear by your approach every single time this problem has been discussed anywhere.
I come here to talk about Magic because I enjoy the game. I don't really share any empathy with those who come here only to complain; voicing your concerns here, repetitively and without substance, is about as productive as shouting into an empty bucket of KFC.
We can go back to talking about Magic now. Any further attacks on my character will be met with a quiet report.
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#BLM
#DefundThePolice
However, I have been waiting a long time for this commander specific release. I hope it lives up to my expectations, as this has really tickled my curiosity since it was announced. The rare land cycle already spoiled has me salivating... Can't wait to see the rest!
Talking about the parts of the game that are a problem, or arent enjoyable, is still talking about magic. Sorry bro, ya gotta accept that.
If you're an adult and have money, I expect that you should be able to exercise fiscal restraint. If not, pointing the finger elsewhere is demonstrably counterproductive. You have to eat; you don't have to buy cards.
Uhhhh... I'm sorry, what is this supposed to be analogous to?
I think we're at a bit of a disconnect about who needs to be more accepting. You're entitled to your opinion, sure, I'm just trying to dissuade you from the belief that everyone else shares it too. Magic is fine (fact), but if you're going to be upset about each new release, well... ya gotta accept that, bro. Or learn to live with being miserable all the time.
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#BLM
#DefundThePolice