I guess I feel much differently than you do. Many of these, in my opinion, easily replace a basic land in most EDH decks and that deck instantly gets a little bit better. Having a relevant spell in the late game, or a land in the early game, is huge, considering the nearly-zero opportunity cost of running it in a land slot. This is especially true for the mythic versions which can ETB untapped for 3 life. But any of the relevant modal spells could easily become commander staples IMO.
I find it so strange people are so willing to get rid of basics in their EDH decks where there are plenty of cards that will straight stop you from playing when you have too few basics.
indeed I wouldn’t remove basics for these they said like several times you choose the side your using before the game begins
Bad news imo. Not because i think the mechanic is inherently weak or boring (well, i do, but whatever), but because i don't it's a good fit for "viking plane" and "mage school" plane.
I think this is really missing the major selling point of MDFC. They aren't to be the most flashy or exciting cards ever. They're the glue that makes things possible that never were before. They let you hide complexity from newbies by making nice, clean, simple cards that fill multiple roles in multiple decks. It also lets you do things like instants and sorceries the set that because you can put a creature on one side and an instant/sorcery on the other. It will help massively with as fan issues in addition to complexity and they have all the versatility of a charm/split card. People were already jamming extra lands into their landfall limited decks. This lets you jam a whole hell of a lot of extra lands into your deck. It lets you jam a whole ton of artifacts/ enchantments into decks without worrying about disenchant being a million times more powerful than it normally is. You could even print one that's a vanilla creature on both sides with different creature types for tribal. This is a mechanic for the people that are excited for the nuts and bolts of Magic to celebrate, not that flashy thing that's going to wow. It probably is the reason core sets have died, though. It presents the expert player a difficult choice while giving the newbie a highly grokkable card that isn't littered with text they won't understand. Sure, I don't see them often being powerful enough for competitive eternal formats, but that's the case with most cards ever printed. When you see them, just ignore them just like you ignore Grizzly Bears or the 9000th 3/3 for 4 with marginal ability.
Well we are support to get the rest of the MDFC lands cards right? Makes sense at least one other set would have them...
Question is can they just do the sheet for the four lands or will be a mechanic feature of the set?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
“There are no weak Jews. I am descended from those who wrestle angels and kill giants. We were chosen by God. You were chosen by a pathetic little man who can't seem to grow a full mustache"
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
Time will tell how effective these modular cards will be. Like mentioned above, if they go too far with them, they could break formats like companion did, so I appreciate the caution.
Is it possible we have a mirror of what happened post-mirrodin? After the power level of Eldraine, Theros 2.0 and some other sets last year, is Wizard's dialing it back to Kamigawa levels of card power?
I appreciate the ebb and flow of the game. I just hope MDFC's don't become a regular feature and turn the game into something else like pokemon. I have always hated DFC's and still don't play with any. I hope I can keep it that way.
So I'm really perplexed at what you mean by turning the game into pokemon. There are no double-faced cards in pokemon... And there are not very many comparisons mechanically between the two games as they have a very different engine from each other. Your statement comes off like football players worrying that the game is going to turn into basketball. The only benefit of a doubt I can glean from this is that most competitive pokemon decks I've seen use very little energy cards and utilize filtering effects to attach their energy which to an effect these modal lands cards I guess do something similar.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Embrace the dark you call a home,
Gaze upon an empty, white throne
A legacy of lies,
A familiar disguise
Sing with me a song of conquest and fate
The black pillar cracks beneath its weight
Night breaks through the day, hard as a stone
Lost in thoughts all alone
I believe you are kind of making my point. If a member can recognize where the evaluation of a card is coming from, there isn't a need to blindly strike back with a "no it doesn't" or "you're wrong".
Secondly, wanting a card to be more powerful isn't a binary decision of 0 crap or 10 bonkers. Cards could be made slightly stronger by playing around with casting costs or rarity shifts very easily. I don't want all cards to be 10's!!! But then again I don't want to see a bunch of useless 1's. How about a nice mix that isn't obviously nerfed? MDFC's from what I've seen need a small power bump for eternal formats, and it wouldn't ruin Standard in the process. Standard's nearly ruined as it is.
The issue is, different formats care about different ranges on that scale. While a commander deck will happily play a 2 if it synergizes well with the commander, eternal formats rarely care about anything that's not a 9 or a 10. It's just not reasonable to expect a set to have many, many 9s and no 10s. I do hope a 9 MDFC gets revealed, but a) it's too early to say the mechanic is bad just because you haven't seen a 9 yet and b) this mechanic is way stronger than it looks.
Please, mill me. Mill my important cards. Mill my lands. Mill it all. Because I will still deal 20 damage before you can mill 45 cards most every time.
Bad news imo. Not because i think the mechanic is inherently weak or boring (well, i do, but whatever), but because i don't it's a good fit for "viking plane" and "mage school" plane.
I think this is really missing the major selling point of MDFC. They aren't to be the most flashy or exciting cards ever. They're the glue that makes things possible that never were before. They let you hide complexity from newbies by making nice, clean, simple cards that fill multiple roles in multiple decks. It also lets you do things like instants and sorceries the set that because you can put a creature on one side and an instant/sorcery on the other. It will help massively with as fan issues in addition to complexity and they have all the versatility of a charm/split card.
Oh, dangit. I was coming to post exactly this... and yeah, that's probably right. We finally have the "technology" for a spellslinger set.
I think this is really missing the major selling point of MDFC. They aren't to be the most flashy or exciting cards ever. They're the glue that makes things possible that never were before. They let you hide complexity from newbies by making nice, clean, simple cards that fill multiple roles in multiple decks. It also lets you do things like instants and sorceries the set that because you can put a creature on one side and an instant/sorcery on the other. It will help massively with as fan issues in addition to complexity and they have all the versatility of a charm/split card. People were already jamming extra lands into their landfall limited decks. This lets you jam a whole hell of a lot of extra lands into your deck. It lets you jam a whole ton of artifacts/ enchantments into decks without worrying about disenchant being a million times more powerful than it normally is. You could even print one that's a vanilla creature on both sides with different creature types for tribal. This is a mechanic for the people that are excited for the nuts and bolts of Magic to celebrate, not that flashy thing that's going to wow. It probably is the reason core sets have died, though. It presents the expert player a difficult choice while giving the newbie a highly grokkable card that isn't littered with text they won't understand. Sure, I don't see them often being powerful enough for competitive eternal formats, but that's the case with most cards ever printed. When you see them, just ignore them just like you ignore Grizzly Bears or the 9000th 3/3 for 4 with marginal ability.
So let's just put them in every set and be happy with it? There won't be a set where they won't help, mechanically.
Zendikar? Half spell, half land
Theros? Half creature, half enchantment
Strixhaven? Half instant, half creature
Ixalan? Half dinosaur, half pirate
Why bother having normal card at this point? You can put a land behind every card in existance and be happy with that. No more mana screw!
And no more flavor.
What will Kaldheim catch? Half creature half equipment? Half snow half nonsnow? No one of those will actually make sense.
How i feel about competitive players and casual players in EDH: The competitive are german tourists, the casual are italian tourists, both in a italian beach. The italians asking themselves "why are the germans here?" make a legitimate question, the answer is because the beach is beautiful, no matter the country you came from. The italians wanting to ban the germans are dumb, because if the germans pay for their stay and follow the rules like everyone else, they have the right to be in the beach. Hovewer, if the germans started to ask themselves "why are the italians here?"... they would be dumb as hell.
I think people have to actually play with these cards to truly get the appeal, but having more of them could genuinely be a good thing. They reduce the impact of one of the most unfun parts about magic - not drawing enough lands (or too many of them). On the other hand, DFCs really are a pain in the ass in paper.
They will be a pain to play with in sleeves, even 10-20 of these modal cards in your deck will make you hate your life when you have to play a 3 game round and you have to continuously flip your cards in their sleeves, not sure what they were thinking about when they made so many.
Also now in limited (sealed/draft) you have to buy opaque sleeves to play, you can't play unsleeved since well...obviously.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"May he who is without mana cast the first spell!"
Check out my Youtube channel where I upload MTG content videos twice a week!
Which game is it that you can play cards as "lands" or "spells"? My little pony? Rage? Yu-gi-oh?
I can't remember. But it's a gigantic mechanical shift. The land ratio thing has always been a weakness of magic. Odd time to fix it. That's what I meant.
Which game is it that you can play cards as "lands" or "spells"? My little pony? Rage? Yu-gi-oh?
I can't remember. But it's a gigantic mechanical shift. The land ratio thing has always been a weakness of magic. Odd time to fix it. That's what I meant.
Duelmasters and WoW TCG does/did that, I'm sure there are others as well.
It mentionsmeach set will use it differently based on each sets theme
So 2021 the year of DFC's
A year of this sounds like way too much. With Innistrad on the horizon we can assume it would come back there, so we definitely are looking at a year of DFC and I'm sure players might get tired of it for an entire year. At this point I wouldn't be surprised if the D&D Core Set, MH2, and somehow Time Spiral Remastered had them as well.
They reduce the impact of one of the most unfun parts about magic - not drawing enough lands (or too many of them). On the other hand, DFCs really are a pain in the ass in paper.
These cards aren't going to fix this. On Zendikar, they are half land, but in other blocks they won't.
They can make sense in Strixhaven to finally create a real "instant and sorcery matter" draft enviroment... but i still can't find any sense for Kaldheim.
How i feel about competitive players and casual players in EDH: The competitive are german tourists, the casual are italian tourists, both in a italian beach. The italians asking themselves "why are the germans here?" make a legitimate question, the answer is because the beach is beautiful, no matter the country you came from. The italians wanting to ban the germans are dumb, because if the germans pay for their stay and follow the rules like everyone else, they have the right to be in the beach. Hovewer, if the germans started to ask themselves "why are the italians here?"... they would be dumb as hell.
Which game is it that you can play cards as "lands" or "spells"? My little pony? Rage? Yu-gi-oh?
I can't remember. But it's a gigantic mechanical shift. The land ratio thing has always been a weakness of magic. Odd time to fix it. That's what I meant.
Duelmasters and WoW TCG does/did that, I'm sure there are others as well.
It mentionsmeach set will use it differently based on each sets theme
So 2021 the year of DFC's
A year of this sounds like way too much. With Innistrad on the horizon we can assume it would come back there, so we definitely are looking at a year of DFC and I'm sure players might get tired of it for an entire year. At this point I wouldn't be surprised if the D&D Core Set, MH2, and somehow Time Spiral Remastered had them as well.
on the bright side the endless request for a werewolf tribal legend is gonna end on the innistrad part
I may be in the minority here, but I can't stand using DFCs, at all. I hate having to take them in and out of sleeves over and over, and I hate having to use checklist cards as almost a required resource to bring with you to games where your deck needs them. They are a pain to double sleeve in decks that you want to double sleeve, and anyone who has a cube that's double sleeved knows how annoying it is adding new cards to your cube that they are all airy and puffy and stand out in a deck unless you take the appropriate actions to squeeze the air out.
I think this is really missing the major selling point of MDFC. They aren't to be the most flashy or exciting cards ever. They're the glue that makes things possible that never were before. They let you hide complexity from newbies by making nice, clean, simple cards that fill multiple roles in multiple decks. It also lets you do things like instants and sorceries the set that because you can put a creature on one side and an instant/sorcery on the other. It will help massively with as fan issues in addition to complexity and they have all the versatility of a charm/split card. People were already jamming extra lands into their landfall limited decks. This lets you jam a whole hell of a lot of extra lands into your deck. It lets you jam a whole ton of artifacts/ enchantments into decks without worrying about disenchant being a million times more powerful than it normally is. You could even print one that's a vanilla creature on both sides with different creature types for tribal. This is a mechanic for the people that are excited for the nuts and bolts of Magic to celebrate, not that flashy thing that's going to wow. It probably is the reason core sets have died, though. It presents the expert player a difficult choice while giving the newbie a highly grokkable card that isn't littered with text they won't understand. Sure, I don't see them often being powerful enough for competitive eternal formats, but that's the case with most cards ever printed. When you see them, just ignore them just like you ignore Grizzly Bears or the 9000th 3/3 for 4 with marginal ability.
So let's just put them in every set and be happy with it? There won't be a set where they won't help, mechanically.
Zendikar? Half spell, half land
Theros? Half creature, half enchantment
Strixhaven? Half instant, half creature
Ixalan? Half dinosaur, half pirate
Why bother having normal card at this point? You can put a land behind every card in existance and be happy with that. No more mana screw!
And no more flavor.
What will Kaldheim catch? Half creature half equipment? Half snow half nonsnow? No one of those will actually make sense.
Assuming I were designing Kaldheim and snow were in, I would probably use MDFC to do half snow land, half snow permanent. The snow lands in limited lead to feel bad picks where you have to waste a relatively early draft pick on a basic land if you're going to go snow. I'd do snow basic in addition to it so you can pick them higher if you opt into going hard into snow, but you can use it even if you aren't. It's a great way to up the as fan just like if I were designing a set for host/augment, I'd probably do half host, half augment and have dedicated slots for them like the contraptions got. It's the most significant tool ever in the history of Magic for any A+B mechanic. I'm quite aware some people have a bitter hatred of dfc in general, but mechanically, they're a huge boon and the rest of us adore them. I'm actually not sure why MDFC are anti flavor, though. Two different tribes on each side could be flavored like companions. Half equipments could have an opposite side that cares about equipment. You could do constellation or metalcraft on cards with an enchantment or artifact back respectively. You could do riders and their mounts as MDFC. Vehicles could have their driver. Obviously, characters that are partners but aren't using the partner mechanic make sense as MDFC. This is actually one of the most kick ass mechanics for vorthos just like dfc werewolves. No more will you be forced to jam two characters onto the same card due to space issues in a set. They each get their own unique card complete with a full art box and maybe even their own flavor text. Hell, you could have done all 15 theros gods with their weapons since they could all be weapon on the other side. This is clearly a win for timmy since you can print a colossaly expensive card on one side and a card you can normally cast on the other. It's a win for johnny because it lets you do a+b on the same card. It's a win for spike because it ups consisitency. It's a win for vorthos big time because it lets you cram way more legends into a set and not care about duplicates. The only people this is bad for are the minority that hate DFC. You can't please everyone all the time. I adore Colossification but plenty of people think it's flaming garbage, which, from pure power level is true, but it's so cool.
I believe you are kind of making my point. If a member can recognize where the evaluation of a card is coming from, there isn't a need to blindly strike back with a "no it doesn't" or "you're wrong".
Secondly, wanting a card to be more powerful isn't a binary decision of 0 crap or 10 bonkers. Cards could be made slightly stronger by playing around with casting costs or rarity shifts very easily. I don't want all cards to be 10's!!! But then again I don't want to see a bunch of useless 1's. How about a nice mix that isn't obviously nerfed? MDFC's from what I've seen need a small power bump for eternal formats, and it wouldn't ruin Standard in the process. Standard's nearly ruined as it is.
The issue is, different formats care about different ranges on that scale. While a commander deck will happily play a 2 if it synergizes well with the commander, eternal formats rarely care about anything that's not a 9 or a 10. It's just not reasonable to expect a set to have many, many 9s and no 10s. I do hope a 9 MDFC gets revealed, but a) it's too early to say the mechanic is bad just because you haven't seen a 9 yet and b) this mechanic is way stronger than it looks.
I agree, the mechanic definitely has potential to be extremely powerful. Cards spoiled so far, way conservative and mostly 1s 2s and 3s on a 1 to 10 power scale. Also cards can be powerful if NARROW in range. You can introduce 9s and 10s if they are narrow to cast and narrow in scope of decks/archetypes it would be played in. Most have been eternal chaff so far. The power has been dialed down plain and simple, no denying that.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Playing since 1994: Currently MAGS (HomeBrew),Standard & Pauper (Pioneer and Modern are degenerate trash formats)
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
I'd probably look toward the instant/sorcery set for eternal playable MDFC. That will probably have an unusually high amount of instant/sorcery cards where older formats often have a mana cap of 2 or something with a few exceptions for really absurd cards. That's where I'd expect to see the Shatters, weird narrow counterspells, and generally low powered stuff that's pointed toward some eternal niche. The land set is really a bad place for such things since older decks really skimp on land, especially vintage, and adding extra land stapled to a main deckable spell could severely warp the format. Just imagine if we, say, staple something like Manamorphose to a land even without the cantrip. It would be steaming garbage in standard, but I could see it getting the ban hammer in legacy or modern. I'm not sure Lotus Petal would even be that hot in standard. Yeah, it's gotten banned numerous times, but the card disadvantage just isn't worth it unless you're going to gain such an absurd advantage it doesn't matter. The decks that generally use it aim to win right now and I don't see any card in standard being castable with one extra mana just utterly breaking the game open consistenly like storm or Tolarian Academy decks. Sure it would have been broken in affinity standard, but then it effectively functioned as a Mox that could sac for an extra mana.
Anyone else also notice that in that article that Maro states that only 6 of the land//lands are in the set and the other 4 are in Keldheim, those being UG, BG, WU and BR.
I wonder if there is a reason for these combinations being left out or to be put into Keldheim?
Anyone else also notice that in that article that Maro states that only 6 of the land//lands are in the set and the other 4 are in Keldheim, those being UG, BG, WU and BR.
I wonder if there is a reason for these combinations being left out or to be put into Keldheim?
~Funk Pirate
From the description he gave, it sounded more like the 6 that are in Zendikar were the reason for the odd split, with those six being the ones they wanted to emphasize in the set (presumably to give the various themes a chance to see play with slightly better mana fixing).
Anyone else also notice that in that article that Maro states that only 6 of the land//lands are in the set and the other 4 are in Keldheim, those being UG, BG, WU and BR.
I wonder if there is a reason for these combinations being left out or to be put into Keldheim?
~Funk Pirate
mark confirmed they are appearing in kaldheim and the 6 for zendikar were for reasons of draft tech and themes
i wonder what 4 types of stuff that’s happening in kaldheim with those colors
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
You could always just put them with your lands instead, as long as everyone knows it turns into just a tap land.
That's not how that works.
Question is can they just do the sheet for the four lands or will be a mechanic feature of the set?
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
So I'm really perplexed at what you mean by turning the game into pokemon. There are no double-faced cards in pokemon... And there are not very many comparisons mechanically between the two games as they have a very different engine from each other. Your statement comes off like football players worrying that the game is going to turn into basketball. The only benefit of a doubt I can glean from this is that most competitive pokemon decks I've seen use very little energy cards and utilize filtering effects to attach their energy which to an effect these modal lands cards I guess do something similar.
Gaze upon an empty, white throne
A legacy of lies,
A familiar disguise
Sing with me a song of conquest and fate
The black pillar cracks beneath its weight
Night breaks through the day, hard as a stone
Lost in thoughts all alone
The issue is, different formats care about different ranges on that scale. While a commander deck will happily play a 2 if it synergizes well with the commander, eternal formats rarely care about anything that's not a 9 or a 10. It's just not reasonable to expect a set to have many, many 9s and no 10s. I do hope a 9 MDFC gets revealed, but a) it's too early to say the mechanic is bad just because you haven't seen a 9 yet and b) this mechanic is way stronger than it looks.
https://markrosewater.tumblr.com/post/628355870144741376/so-theres-an-article-around-on-mashable-that
It mentionsmeach set will use it differently based on each sets theme
So 2021 the year of DFC's
Oh, dangit. I was coming to post exactly this... and yeah, that's probably right. We finally have the "technology" for a spellslinger set.
So let's just put them in every set and be happy with it? There won't be a set where they won't help, mechanically.
Zendikar? Half spell, half land
Theros? Half creature, half enchantment
Strixhaven? Half instant, half creature
Ixalan? Half dinosaur, half pirate
Why bother having normal card at this point? You can put a land behind every card in existance and be happy with that. No more mana screw!
And no more flavor.
What will Kaldheim catch? Half creature half equipment? Half snow half nonsnow? No one of those will actually make sense.
Also now in limited (sealed/draft) you have to buy opaque sleeves to play, you can't play unsleeved since well...obviously.
Check out my Youtube channel where I upload MTG content videos twice a week!
Mtg Lifestyle
I can't remember. But it's a gigantic mechanical shift. The land ratio thing has always been a weakness of magic. Odd time to fix it. That's what I meant.
Duelmasters and WoW TCG does/did that, I'm sure there are others as well.
A year of this sounds like way too much. With Innistrad on the horizon we can assume it would come back there, so we definitely are looking at a year of DFC and I'm sure players might get tired of it for an entire year. At this point I wouldn't be surprised if the D&D Core Set, MH2, and somehow Time Spiral Remastered had them as well.
These cards aren't going to fix this. On Zendikar, they are half land, but in other blocks they won't.
They can make sense in Strixhaven to finally create a real "instant and sorcery matter" draft enviroment... but i still can't find any sense for Kaldheim.
on the bright side the endless request for a werewolf tribal legend is gonna end on the innistrad part
DFCs can go die in a fire.
I agree, the mechanic definitely has potential to be extremely powerful. Cards spoiled so far, way conservative and mostly 1s 2s and 3s on a 1 to 10 power scale. Also cards can be powerful if NARROW in range. You can introduce 9s and 10s if they are narrow to cast and narrow in scope of decks/archetypes it would be played in. Most have been eternal chaff so far. The power has been dialed down plain and simple, no denying that.
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
I wonder if there is a reason for these combinations being left out or to be put into Keldheim?
~Funk Pirate
mark confirmed they are appearing in kaldheim and the 6 for zendikar were for reasons of draft tech and themes
i wonder what 4 types of stuff that’s happening in kaldheim with those colors