The idea of a lot of the party cards seems to be "you you really want to have just one of each of us, but we have riders that help ourselves in case you have redundancy in one party slot."
I am sure that is helpful for gameplay purposes. But it also feels like a lot of tribal being shoehorned into a supposedly "lands matter" set.
The idea of a lot of the party cards seems to be "you you really want to have just one of each of us, but we have riders that help ourselves in case you have redundancy in one party slot."
I am sure that is helpful for gameplay purposes. But it also feels like a lot of tribal being shoehorned into a supposedly "lands matter" set.
I agree. I came back to Zendikar for Land Stuff, not a 3rd failed attempt at "Allies" again.
Ixalan is the better adventure world in my opinion.
The idea of a lot of the party cards seems to be "you you really want to have just one of each of us, but we have riders that help ourselves in case you have redundancy in one party slot."
I am sure that is helpful for gameplay purposes. But it also feels like a lot of tribal being shoehorned into a supposedly "lands matter" set.
I agree. I came back to Zendikar for Land Stuff, not a 3rd failed attempt at "Allies" again.
Ixalan is the better adventure world in my opinion.
Ixalan is Land of the Lost the set. This is inspired by D&D, they said as much, and this set feels fantastic.
malakir blood-priest is very comparable to viashino pyromancer and i can envision turn 4 double drop of this guy for a 6 life drain. I don't think this is a card that will be splashy, but we will definitely not enjoy seeing on the other side of the board.
This mechanic is not for me and every single newly revealed party card inspires me to save my money
I'm not typically one to check out on a set mid-preview, but this set is really losing me. I wonder if it's just their preview strategy skewing perceptions? It does seem like they're giving out little cohorts of meh Limited cards without much impressive stuff to balance it out. Maybe they aren't, but it sure feels like all we're seeing is unimpressive chaff.
I will say that the flavor is great, and the mechanics aren't on their face bad. Kicker, landfall, and party are all good mechanics, they just aren't inherently flashy (all three are mechanics that don't "do anything" on their own and rely on how individual cards use them to make a mark) and they're just being applied to unimpressive cards. I've said it elsewhere, but the set feels very "just fine" so far. Some useful cards, some with flexible utility, etc. Even the planeswalkers aren't very flashy.
I'm not going to argue the set is bad (we haven't even seen it yet), but preview season has been unimpressive and, dare I say it, boring. And that's coming from someone with a soft spot for maligned or underpowered sets/blocks. I like the last Zendikar block. I like the Masques block. They tried things and they certainly failed more than succeeded, but I see a lot of interesting elements in them. Here I just feel meh. I'm hoping some cards start getting previewed that make me want to do anything with this set.
This mechanic is not for meanyone and every single newly revealed party card inspires meeveryone to save my money
from this dumpster fire set
Yikes...how many of the top cards in eldraine did you identify in the first 3 days of previews? I think the party mechanic is very, very strongly hated on - many of the cards are acceptable plays as a party of 1 - which in the case of creatures like malakir blood-priest is himself. Magical Christmas moments seem quite reasonable - a 1 drop 2/1 warrior for B into a 1 drop cleric and rogue turn 2 (thieve's guild enforcer + the random cleric) into turn 3 zagras into a double drop of blood-priest, acquistition's expert is very similar to the 1)fervant champion, 2) runaway steamkin 3) fervant, shock, light up the stage, anax 4) embercleave/thorban that I have lost to at least a dozen times this month.
If you are looking at this set for modern or commander - the evaluations on cards change - but the splashiest cards are often the ones that we end up relegating to unplayable and it is those weird cards (thassa's oracle, growth spiral) that end up warping the formats. I find it hard to imagine that regardless of your preferred format - that you will be unable to find quite a few cards that you want to play. Enter into the equation things like the expeditions for free value - and this set will have an explosive impact on all formats solely by the amount of packs that will be opened.
Don't we usually get the perennial "this set sucks" thread in the New Card Discussion sub forum? I'm genuinely unimpressed so far as well, but at the same time it looks like they're experimenting with something new (as they have been all year long): previewing all the draft chaff first. If the whole set drops and it still looks like this, then maybe it's time to worry.
This mechanic is not for meanyone and every single newly revealed party card inspires meeveryone to save my money
from this dumpster fire set
Yikes...how many of the top cards in eldraine did you identify in the first 3 days of previews? I think the party mechanic is very, very strongly hated on - many of the cards are acceptable plays as a party of 1 - which in the case of creatures like malakir blood-priest is himself. Magical Christmas moments seem quite reasonable - a 1 drop 2/1 warrior for B into a 1 drop cleric and rogue turn 2 (thieve's guild enforcer + the random cleric) into turn 3 zagras into a double drop of blood-priest, acquistition's expert is very similar to the 1)fervant champion, 2) runaway steamkin 3) fervant, shock, light up the stage, anax 4) embercleave/thorban that I have lost to at least a dozen times this month.
If you are looking at this set for modern or commander - the evaluations on cards change - but the splashiest cards are often the ones that we end up relegating to unplayable and it is those weird cards (thassa's oracle, growth spiral) that end up warping the formats. I find it hard to imagine that regardless of your preferred format - that you will be unable to find quite a few cards that you want to play. Enter into the equation things like the expeditions for free value - and this set will have an explosive impact on all formats solely by the amount of packs that will be opened.
I play mostly standard and commander. Party is straight up unplayable in both formats imho. Kicker is just ok, more like a filler ablity.
I love landfall, so hopefully they at least print some better cards with that. But I think someone in another thread mentioned that the things we liked best about Zendikar were traps, quests etc. Instead they decided to focus on the one trope that everyone hated, allies, and instead make it even worse.
I cant even give away rare ally cards to my whole magic group, and these party guys will be even worse.
If they kept them to uncommon rarity max I suppose I wouldnt care as much.
This mechanic is not for meanyone and every single newly revealed party card inspires meeveryone to save my money
from this dumpster fire set
Yikes...how many of the top cards in eldraine did you identify in the first 3 days of previews?.
I mean, half of the rares and MR of Eldraine are worth playing and got hypped on preview seasson, soo bad comparison imo
There are also examples of multiple sources saying Oko seemed 'playable' and companion seemed stupid. Oko is banned. Companion as a mechanic got altered. Everyone thinks they know everything before the sets come out. My opinion is wait and see. Every set we get the same people bashing every single card and every set. It's nothing new, it's just also not productive or helpful.
I think if we just Accept that the set will be slightly underpowered Then we can start evaluating on a realistic level
Party I still find hard to achieve at max value so maybe there will be more "party" creatures that do enough with 1 or 2, it seems that just any removal, combat damage, fighting, murdering, zapping, bouncing etc...etc... the feels bad can be real when it goes bad
The DFC tapped lands seem so far underpowered but have there slim value space
Nothing crazy Yet..that's for sure but we have a ways to go.. Maybe they will surprise us with something cool
Maybe after its all out its still just a underpowered dissapointment but oh well cant win em all , they just better not screw up KALDHEIM
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Been on this forum for 10++ years
Playing since '94
This mechanic is not for me and every single newly revealed party card inspires me to save my money
I'm not typically one to check out on a set mid-preview, but this set is really losing me. I wonder if it's just their preview strategy skewing perceptions? It does seem like they're giving out little cohorts of meh Limited cards without much impressive stuff to balance it out. Maybe they aren't, but it sure feels like all we're seeing is unimpressive chaff.
I will say that the flavor is great, and the mechanics aren't on their face bad. Kicker, landfall, and party are all good mechanics, they just aren't inherently flashy (all three are mechanics that don't "do anything" on their own and rely on how individual cards use them to make a mark) and they're just being applied to unimpressive cards. I've said it elsewhere, but the set feels very "just fine" so far. Some useful cards, some with flexible utility, etc. Even the planeswalkers aren't very flashy.
I'm not going to argue the set is bad (we haven't even seen it yet), but preview season has been unimpressive and, dare I say it, boring. And that's coming from someone with a soft spot for maligned or underpowered sets/blocks. I like the last Zendikar block. I like the Masques block. They tried things and they certainly failed more than succeeded, but I see a lot of interesting elements in them. Here I just feel meh. I'm hoping some cards start getting previewed that make me want to do anything with this set.
I'm in agreement. I think that there are maybe 7 cards that im excited to get, if that, and one of them hasn't even been shown yet (it was a unconfirmed spoiler but is likely true)(the Avenger of Zendikar legendary). The rest of the cards just feel very forgettable, and that's saying a lot considering I play a variety of formats including draft and pauper.
If I'm going to make a completely bold and honest statement this far into the previews, it's that I don't really like Zendikar anymore. The original block was awesome and thus far it has gone downhill so far that I now wish to never return. I've just lost interest.
People are just having unrealistic expectation on the cards revealed so far.
Consider the nature of the reveal, there are more than usual amount of common shown compare to the past (at least 3 times as much, since most party revealed so far has at least 3 commons). If you look at only the rares, this set seems reasonable.
The idea of a lot of the party cards seems to be "you you really want to have just one of each of us, but we have riders that help ourselves in case you have redundancy in one party slot."
I am sure that is helpful for gameplay purposes. But it also feels like a lot of tribal being shoehorned into a supposedly "lands matter" set.
I agree. I came back to Zendikar for Land Stuff, not a 3rd failed attempt at "Allies" again.
Ixalan is the better adventure world in my opinion.
I came here to say exactly this. Upvoted.
Damn, you even mentioned the part about Ixalan being the better adventure world set, which was exactly what I was thinking yesterday as well.
It's like they took Allies, stripped the name and mixed in everything that went wrong with Lorwyn, then added a flimsy adventure veneer to it. Everything about this set is so narrow the cards are better left on the table after an event. I really hate to say that about Zendikar of all planes. The original and WWK were so good. What happened man.
This mechanic is not for me and every single newly revealed party card inspires me to save my money
I'm not typically one to check out on a set mid-preview, but this set is really losing me. I wonder if it's just their preview strategy skewing perceptions? It does seem like they're giving out little cohorts of meh Limited cards without much impressive stuff to balance it out. Maybe they aren't, but it sure feels like all we're seeing is unimpressive chaff.
I will say that the flavor is great, and the mechanics aren't on their face bad. Kicker, landfall, and party are all good mechanics, they just aren't inherently flashy (all three are mechanics that don't "do anything" on their own and rely on how individual cards use them to make a mark) and they're just being applied to unimpressive cards. I've said it elsewhere, but the set feels very "just fine" so far. Some useful cards, some with flexible utility, etc. Even the planeswalkers aren't very flashy.
I'm not going to argue the set is bad (we haven't even seen it yet), but preview season has been unimpressive and, dare I say it, boring. And that's coming from someone with a soft spot for maligned or underpowered sets/blocks. I like the last Zendikar block. I like the Masques block. They tried things and they certainly failed more than succeeded, but I see a lot of interesting elements in them. Here I just feel meh. I'm hoping some cards start getting previewed that make me want to do anything with this set.
To me I feel a bit like how I felt about Eldraine towards this set: there is a number of things I want for some decks, but don't think I gonna be building new decks or reshaping a deck for this set. Granted I always felt kinda this way with Zendikar so I haven't really been disappointed.
Similar to Eldraine too I wonder if a lot of this set is set up/seeding for some stuff in future set and will get a boost once more sets come out, such as how Eldraine was great improved by Theros. I could see upcoming sets having more of the party creature for example .
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“There are no weak Jews. I am descended from those who wrestle angels and kill giants. We were chosen by God. You were chosen by a pathetic little man who can't seem to grow a full mustache"
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
This mechanic is not for me and every single newly revealed party card inspires me to save my money
I'm not typically one to check out on a set mid-preview, but this set is really losing me. I wonder if it's just their preview strategy skewing perceptions? It does seem like they're giving out little cohorts of meh Limited cards without much impressive stuff to balance it out. Maybe they aren't, but it sure feels like all we're seeing is unimpressive chaff.
I will say that the flavor is great, and the mechanics aren't on their face bad. Kicker, landfall, and party are all good mechanics, they just aren't inherently flashy (all three are mechanics that don't "do anything" on their own and rely on how individual cards use them to make a mark) and they're just being applied to unimpressive cards. I've said it elsewhere, but the set feels very "just fine" so far. Some useful cards, some with flexible utility, etc. Even the planeswalkers aren't very flashy.
I'm not going to argue the set is bad (we haven't even seen it yet), but preview season has been unimpressive and, dare I say it, boring. And that's coming from someone with a soft spot for maligned or underpowered sets/blocks. I like the last Zendikar block. I like the Masques block. They tried things and they certainly failed more than succeeded, but I see a lot of interesting elements in them. Here I just feel meh. I'm hoping some cards start getting previewed that make me want to do anything with this set.
I really feel you. I’m honestly shocked to be so disappointed in this set. I really had high hopes for Zendikar done right. But here we are again.
The idea of a lot of the party cards seems to be "you you really want to have just one of each of us, but we have riders that help ourselves in case you have redundancy in one party slot."
I am sure that is helpful for gameplay purposes. But it also feels like a lot of tribal being shoehorned into a supposedly "lands matter" set.
Remember: Sets have sub-themes. First RAV-block was all about color-pairs and guilds, but with an enchantment sub-theme. And since then sub-themes have become increasingly prominent as a rule.
Did they even say ZNR is a "land matters" set? ZEN-block was "land matters", but return sets can shift the focus and make the main theme a sub-theme - even ROE made the Eldrazi the main focus and reduced "land matters" in favor of "battlecruiser" game-style. BFZ was top-down focused on the conflicted Zendikar vs. Eldrazi with OGW playing hard on the cooperation aspect of the conflict. Zendikar is still the "land matters" plane, so that theme will always be there with a higher than average amount of nonbasic lands and - so far - landfall. Yet ZNR has been announced since the failure of BFZ as a "return to adventure world", so with that in mind it should be no surprise that tribal - the way they mechanically realize adventuring as a party - gets to show up in force equal to "land matters".
And that's not even taking into account that the base level of tribal in sets has gone up over time in all sets, even those without explicitly stated tribal theme.
This set will likely have about half of its draft themes be tribal - four color pairs for the four party tribes, probably one color pair (?)really trying to make party work and the partially green color pairs will get a stronger focus on land themes with landfall enablers/rewards in green-white and red-green, apparently getting some more kicker-pay-offs in green-blue (directly) and indirectly in black-green (+1/+1 counters) which is all fine and ramp-y.
I'd adjust my expectations.
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Planar Chaos was not a mistake neither was it random. You might want to look at it again.
[thread=239793][Game] Level Up - Creature[/thread]
I mean, guys, everyone has been absolutely losing their minds about standard bannings recently. Yes, the solution to that shouldn't be to make everything suck, but you've got to keep in mind that no doubt WotC have been listening to such complaints when deciding on the upcoming sets such as this one. If I were in WotC's position and everyone was screaming about overpowered cards, I would certainly feel inclined to lowball things a little, at least until things calm down a bit.
We'll see how the whole set looks and how well everything actually plays.
The four main mothership Twitter accounts got together and formed their own party.
Sources: @Wizards_Magic, @MagicEsports, @MTG_Arena, and @MagicOnline
EDIT: Apologies for not seeing this card in the first tweet of the thread. New spin on the usual dig for 5 spell.
I am sure that is helpful for gameplay purposes. But it also feels like a lot of tribal being shoehorned into a supposedly "lands matter" set.
Changeling doesn't increase your party size, so just 2 and 2.
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#DefundThePolice
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#BLM
#DefundThePolice
I agree. I came back to Zendikar for Land Stuff, not a 3rd failed attempt at "Allies" again.
Ixalan is the better adventure world in my opinion.
Many thanks to DNC at Heroes of the Plane Studios
I'm not typically one to check out on a set mid-preview, but this set is really losing me. I wonder if it's just their preview strategy skewing perceptions? It does seem like they're giving out little cohorts of meh Limited cards without much impressive stuff to balance it out. Maybe they aren't, but it sure feels like all we're seeing is unimpressive chaff.
I will say that the flavor is great, and the mechanics aren't on their face bad. Kicker, landfall, and party are all good mechanics, they just aren't inherently flashy (all three are mechanics that don't "do anything" on their own and rely on how individual cards use them to make a mark) and they're just being applied to unimpressive cards. I've said it elsewhere, but the set feels very "just fine" so far. Some useful cards, some with flexible utility, etc. Even the planeswalkers aren't very flashy.
I'm not going to argue the set is bad (we haven't even seen it yet), but preview season has been unimpressive and, dare I say it, boring. And that's coming from someone with a soft spot for maligned or underpowered sets/blocks. I like the last Zendikar block. I like the Masques block. They tried things and they certainly failed more than succeeded, but I see a lot of interesting elements in them. Here I just feel meh. I'm hoping some cards start getting previewed that make me want to do anything with this set.
Archatmos
Excellion
Fracture: Israfiel (WBR), Wujal (URG), Valedon (GUB), Amduat (BGW), Paladris (RWU)
Collision (Set Two of the Fracture Block)
Quest for the Forsaken (Set Two of the Excellion Block)
Katingal: Plane of Chains
Speak for yourself. There are numerous spoilers I'm excited to brew with. I can't wait for the set to come out.
Yikes...how many of the top cards in eldraine did you identify in the first 3 days of previews? I think the party mechanic is very, very strongly hated on - many of the cards are acceptable plays as a party of 1 - which in the case of creatures like malakir blood-priest is himself. Magical Christmas moments seem quite reasonable - a 1 drop 2/1 warrior for B into a 1 drop cleric and rogue turn 2 (thieve's guild enforcer + the random cleric) into turn 3 zagras into a double drop of blood-priest, acquistition's expert is very similar to the 1)fervant champion, 2) runaway steamkin 3) fervant, shock, light up the stage, anax 4) embercleave/thorban that I have lost to at least a dozen times this month.
If you are looking at this set for modern or commander - the evaluations on cards change - but the splashiest cards are often the ones that we end up relegating to unplayable and it is those weird cards (thassa's oracle, growth spiral) that end up warping the formats. I find it hard to imagine that regardless of your preferred format - that you will be unable to find quite a few cards that you want to play. Enter into the equation things like the expeditions for free value - and this set will have an explosive impact on all formats solely by the amount of packs that will be opened.
---
#BLM
#DefundThePolice
---
#BLM
#DefundThePolice
I mean, half of the rares and MR of Eldraine are worth playing and got hypped on preview seasson, soo bad comparison imo
I play mostly standard and commander. Party is straight up unplayable in both formats imho. Kicker is just ok, more like a filler ablity.
I love landfall, so hopefully they at least print some better cards with that. But I think someone in another thread mentioned that the things we liked best about Zendikar were traps, quests etc. Instead they decided to focus on the one trope that everyone hated, allies, and instead make it even worse.
I cant even give away rare ally cards to my whole magic group, and these party guys will be even worse.
If they kept them to uncommon rarity max I suppose I wouldnt care as much.
There are also examples of multiple sources saying Oko seemed 'playable' and companion seemed stupid. Oko is banned. Companion as a mechanic got altered. Everyone thinks they know everything before the sets come out. My opinion is wait and see. Every set we get the same people bashing every single card and every set. It's nothing new, it's just also not productive or helpful.
Party I still find hard to achieve at max value so maybe there will be more "party" creatures that do enough with 1 or 2, it seems that just any removal, combat damage, fighting, murdering, zapping, bouncing etc...etc... the feels bad can be real when it goes bad
The DFC tapped lands seem so far underpowered but have there slim value space
Nothing crazy Yet..that's for sure but we have a ways to go.. Maybe they will surprise us with something cool
Maybe after its all out its still just a underpowered dissapointment but oh well cant win em all , they just better not screw up KALDHEIM
Been on this forum for 10++ years
Playing since '94
I'm in agreement. I think that there are maybe 7 cards that im excited to get, if that, and one of them hasn't even been shown yet (it was a unconfirmed spoiler but is likely true)(the Avenger of Zendikar legendary). The rest of the cards just feel very forgettable, and that's saying a lot considering I play a variety of formats including draft and pauper.
If I'm going to make a completely bold and honest statement this far into the previews, it's that I don't really like Zendikar anymore. The original block was awesome and thus far it has gone downhill so far that I now wish to never return. I've just lost interest.
Dunes of Zairo
SHANDALAR
Innistrad - The Darkest Night
~THE RAVNICAN CONSORTIUM~
A Community Set
Commander: Allies & Adversaries
Consider the nature of the reveal, there are more than usual amount of common shown compare to the past (at least 3 times as much, since most party revealed so far has at least 3 commons). If you look at only the rares, this set seems reasonable.
Damn, you even mentioned the part about Ixalan being the better adventure world set, which was exactly what I was thinking yesterday as well.
It's like they took Allies, stripped the name and mixed in everything that went wrong with Lorwyn, then added a flimsy adventure veneer to it. Everything about this set is so narrow the cards are better left on the table after an event. I really hate to say that about Zendikar of all planes. The original and WWK were so good. What happened man.
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Kenessos, Priest of Thassa (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||
To me I feel a bit like how I felt about Eldraine towards this set: there is a number of things I want for some decks, but don't think I gonna be building new decks or reshaping a deck for this set. Granted I always felt kinda this way with Zendikar so I haven't really been disappointed.
Similar to Eldraine too I wonder if a lot of this set is set up/seeding for some stuff in future set and will get a boost once more sets come out, such as how Eldraine was great improved by Theros. I could see upcoming sets having more of the party creature for example .
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Kenessos, Priest of Thassa (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||
Remember: Sets have sub-themes. First RAV-block was all about color-pairs and guilds, but with an enchantment sub-theme. And since then sub-themes have become increasingly prominent as a rule.
Did they even say ZNR is a "land matters" set? ZEN-block was "land matters", but return sets can shift the focus and make the main theme a sub-theme - even ROE made the Eldrazi the main focus and reduced "land matters" in favor of "battlecruiser" game-style. BFZ was top-down focused on the conflicted Zendikar vs. Eldrazi with OGW playing hard on the cooperation aspect of the conflict. Zendikar is still the "land matters" plane, so that theme will always be there with a higher than average amount of nonbasic lands and - so far - landfall. Yet ZNR has been announced since the failure of BFZ as a "return to adventure world", so with that in mind it should be no surprise that tribal - the way they mechanically realize adventuring as a party - gets to show up in force equal to "land matters".
And that's not even taking into account that the base level of tribal in sets has gone up over time in all sets, even those without explicitly stated tribal theme.
This set will likely have about half of its draft themes be tribal - four color pairs for the four party tribes, probably one color pair (?)really trying to make party work and the partially green color pairs will get a stronger focus on land themes with landfall enablers/rewards in green-white and red-green, apparently getting some more kicker-pay-offs in green-blue (directly) and indirectly in black-green (+1/+1 counters) which is all fine and ramp-y.
I'd adjust my expectations.
Finally a good white villain quote: "So, do I ever re-evaluate my life choices? Never, because I know what I'm doing is a righteous cause."
Factions: Sleeping
Remnants: Valheim
Legendary Journey: Heroes & Planeswalkers
Saga: Shards of Rabiah
Legends: The Elder Dragons
Read up on Red Flags & NWO
We'll see how the whole set looks and how well everything actually plays.
RUNIN: Norse mythology set (awaiting further playtesting)
FATE of ALARA: Multicolour factions (currently on hiatus)
Contibutor to the Pyrulea community set
I'm here to tell you that all your set mechanics are bad
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