Was tipped off on the Expeditions. Found on another site. Gorgeous, breathtaking... words cannot describe them. Hope they come foiled out in regular packs and not just found in a premium product.
I believe these were posted in the Preview Stream thread. I definitely think this is the first thread dedicated to the expeditions, though, so I'd say this thread is worth keeping around.
The problem with defining this format by what is "fun" is that everyone seems to define fun as what they don't lose to. If you keep losing to easily answered cards, that means you should improve your deck. If you don't want to improve your deck, then you should come to peace with the idea that you are going to lose because you chose to not interact with better strategies.
I believe these were said to be box toppers and in collectors boosters.
It's really not surprising if they can't be in normal packs, for some reason fetches have been relegated to some mystical status that they can never be in normal boosters ever again lest it rend the entire secondary market in twain.
We also have the 5 Battlebond lands, Prismatic Vista, Wasteland and Cavern of Souls.
I just want to know what the OTHER 12 are since the numbering is up to 30.
Plus more clarification on where and how often they can be found
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We also have the 5 Battlebond lands, Prismatic Vista, Wasteland and Cavern of Souls.
I just want to know what the OTHER 12 are since the numbering is up to 30.
Plus more clarification on where and how often they can be found
Well, we know that Ancient Tomb will be one of them.
The problem with defining this format by what is "fun" is that everyone seems to define fun as what they don't lose to. If you keep losing to easily answered cards, that means you should improve your deck. If you don't want to improve your deck, then you should come to peace with the idea that you are going to lose because you chose to not interact with better strategies.
Expeditions are back! If you want to find an Expedition, just buy a Draft, Set, or Collector Booster display box, and you will find them.
A single one-card Box Topper with an Expedition inside is included within each Draft Booster Display Box and Set Booster Display Box.
Two one-card Expedition Box Toppers are included with each Collector Booster Display Box.
Each Expedition found in Expedition Box Toppers is a non-foil and has been treated with a stunning, smooth high-gloss varnish treatment on elements of the frame. Of note, we have improved the technology on the varnish used to be both sleeker and more durable. While digital images don't do the high-gloss treatment justice, follow @wizards_magic to check out some videos of the physical cards.
I can't wait for you to hold one in person. I'm glad that we were able to bring non-foil versions of Expeditions into Zendikar Rising for the player who wants to experience Expeditions in non-foil.
We have picked from among the best lands ever printed in Magic and chosen 30 lands to be represented as Zendikar Expeditions. They each feature the Zendikar Expedition expansion symbol. This distinction from the Zendikar Rising symbol is to indicate and remind players that they aren't legal in Standard, as this printing of Expeditions doesn't impact what formats these cards are legal in.
I think the only way we could possibly compete with Expedition Box Toppers is by creating foil Expeditions! The foil Expeditions are found only in Collector Boosters with about 1 in 6 Collector Boosters having a foil Expedition (see below for full details on Collector Boosters). These foil Expeditions have the same high-gloss varnish treatment as their non-foil counterparts and contain the same set of 30 cards.
It's really not surprising if they can't be in normal packs, for some reason fetches have been relegated to some mystical status that they can never be in normal boosters ever again lest it rend the entire secondary market in twain.
They don't want them in standard. They will be in boosters in the new Modern Horizons 2 though as well.
Past expeditions in booster didn't make the cards legal in standard. It's unrelated.
While expeditions are extra and don't take anything from the set, announcing "expeditions are back!" then immediately yanking them out of our expectation by not including them in normal boosters make me, and I suppose others, sad and disappointed. Then again, MtG marketing / products have taken a definitive turn toward exploiting whales who happily pay up for exclusive products.
They don't want them in standard. They will be in boosters in the new Modern Horizons 2 though as well.
Understandably they can't be in Standard now, thanks to the Triomes being out, but they could easily be in Standard again if they stopped putting nonbasics with basic land types in a Standard rotation. If they are worried about them being in Pioneer they can ban the enemy fetches too.
I am aware they are in MH2, but those are not "normal boosters" (as in $4.)
*Now* the tepid power level of the cards shown so far makes sense...
nailed it!
i hadn't considered the idea that it bumps what we accepted as a normal rare and bumps it up to some status that is unreasonable to have at rare in a pack. we should also be angry over that. these aren't some mythical hyper powerful set of cards, and its not our fault they're too lazy or too disjointed to be able to design a standard environment where fetches are fair. we should expect better of wotc, and we shouldn't blindly accept this kind of thing - and we shouldn't be solely be blaming hasbro either. wotc has a hand in this. they are just as culpable.
regardless, this is what i had to say about these expeditions elsewhere:
they'd be a lot cooler if they appeared randomly instead of just as box toppers/in premium packs.
not really cool with them being box toppers/premium pack only because so many will be after these that the contents of a pack will decrease in value even further as the volume of cards put onto the market increases. make no mistake people will buy whole boxes just for these (even if they're kinda fugly).
there's already a secondary market pricing problem with new products where almost all of the value every set (over the past year under this new make boosters fun again model) has been locked to just 2 or 3 mythics and their alternate arts each set making the cost of a box far higher than the value of its contents unless you hit the lotto. that problem will be exacerbated further by making these box toppers/premium packs only.
so why buy anything short of a box, why buy a nonpremium pack... ever?
why keep gambling?
this also doesn't really solve any pricing problems with fetches. it pretty much ensures that the haves can have more as they can afford to buy the boxes, and the have nots are poop out of luck as all they can afford are normal draft packs.
gamble.
we like to think people will flip them putting more onto the market but in reality we're all just hoarders. most of us are going to sit on them for years or bling out a deck and hold on to our normal versions for use elsewhere, while trying to dump the contents of the packs we crack from that box, or just leave them sealed in a closet for years.
i'm also not a fan of this strategy to sales because it means the set can be designed like hot garbage. it means we can get wave after wave of bans from grossly overpowered cards, stagnant standard seasons, or just straight up bad cards... and it doesn't even matter. the whole thing excuses mediocrity. why balance anything, we'll buy it anyway. the product will still sell and it sends a very clear message to the hasbro/wotc overlords that all they have to do is jam something like this into a set to make it a financial success.
consume.
put no effort into the product. buy. gamble. you could hit it big! what if that pack has an alternate art borderless foil [insert hot mythic], you know how much i want one of those!
hopefully i'm wrong, because if i'm not as time goes on the game will be... well we've all seen tcg's fail for similar reasons over the past 25+ years.
Past expeditions in booster didn't make the cards legal in standard. It's unrelated.
The comment was on fetches, not expeditions. Fetches will be appearing in boosters again, so yes, they have no aversion to putting them in boosters. That was actually my point- WotC's aversion is towards putting fetches in standard.
While expeditions are extra and don't take anything from the set, announcing "expeditions are back!" then immediately yanking them out of our expectation by not including them in normal boosters make me, and I suppose others, sad and disappointed. Then again, MtG marketing / products have taken a definitive turn toward exploiting whales who happily pay up for exclusive products.
Putting them in normal boosters (the way they originally did it. at least) would feel *more* exploitative to me. This way you get guaranteed Expeditions from buying boxes. Makes it more consistent. And in collector boosters, they are showing up here at a fairly decent rate (1 in 6), so again, you can reliably expect to pick a few up. Sure, you won't be able to randomly get them playing limited games this time, or from simply buying random boosters, in a way that might make many ordinary players less likely to stumble upon one, but the chances of getting Expeditions was about 1 in 432 packs so you were more likely to never get one and buying individual boosters has never been a good way to collect cards anyway. Them appearing as they did originally in ordinary boosters, but at an extraordinarily low rate, was excellent whale bait, were you could randomly buy a few packs, get an expedition, then develop an inflated sense of the likelihood of opening one, and churn through another 300 packs without seeing another one.
Maybe I'm missing something, but this seems like an easily better way of including 'ultra-premium' cards like this. I guess if they included them in regular boosters on top of this it would be better in a sense, but it would again encourage the kind of pack churning I mentioned so I'm not sure if the small bonus chance would actually be worth it.
They don't want them in standard. They will be in boosters in the new Modern Horizons 2 though as well.
Understandably they can't be in Standard now, thanks to the Triomes being out, but they could easily be in Standard again if they stopped putting nonbasics with basic land types in a Standard rotation. If they are worried about them being in Pioneer they can ban the enemy fetches too.
I am aware they are in MH2, but those are not "normal boosters" (as in $4.)
WotC doesn't like fetches in standard for multiple reasons, including limiting them designwise from including duals with basic types, and shuffling time. It's vaguely possible in the right circumstances we could see them, but it's not just basic land types on duals that WotC doesn't like about them.
So basically you need to buy Collector Booster Boxes.
Then you'll get 2 non-foil toppers and in the packs you'll get 2 foil toppers.
And of course you still only have a 1 in 3 chance to get a "fetch" land
They don't want them in standard. They will be in boosters in the new Modern Horizons 2 though as well.
Understandably they can't be in Standard now, thanks to the Triomes being out, but they could easily be in Standard again if they stopped putting nonbasics with basic land types in a Standard rotation. If they are worried about them being in Pioneer they can ban the enemy fetches too.
I am aware they are in MH2, but those are not "normal boosters" (as in $4.)
WotC doesn't like fetches in standard for multiple reasons, including limiting them designwise from including duels with basic types, and shuffling time. It's vaguely possible in the right circumstances we could see them, but it's not just basic land types that WotC doesn't like about them.
I'm well aware of their reasons, although the shuffling one...well that dog don't hunt. They are absolutely fine with shuffle effects, we have plenty of it in Standard currently and many of them get played regularly or have previously, including a fetch land that is played often.
Back when fetches were in original Zendikar there was a lot of shuffle effects between Cawblade with Squadron Hawk and Stoneforge Mystic and Valakut with pretty much half the searching the deck running around (Cultivate, Harrow, Primeval Titan, Khalni Heart Expedition, Green Sun's Zenith, Summoning Trap), it was not fetches that caused that "problem" of shuffling. In fact fetches were the easiest as you only searched for a basic and were done in about five seconds.
If they were so concerned about shuffling they wouldn't do it as often.
*Now* the tepid power level of the cards shown so far makes sense...
nailed it!
i hadn't considered the idea that it bumps what we accepted as a normal rare and bumps it up to some status that is unreasonable to have at rare in a pack. we should also be angry over that. these aren't some mythical hyper powerful set of cards, and its not our fault they're too lazy or too disjointed to be able to design a standard environment where fetches are fair. we should expect better of wotc, and we shouldn't blindly accept this kind of thing - and we shouldn't be solely be blaming hasbro either. wotc has a hand in this. they are just as culpable.
regardless, this is what i had to say about these expeditions elsewhere:
they'd be a lot cooler if they appeared randomly instead of just as box toppers/in premium packs.
not really cool with them being box toppers/premium pack only because so many will be after these that the contents of a pack will decrease in value even further as the volume of cards put onto the market increases. make no mistake people will buy whole boxes just for these (even if they're kinda fugly).
there's already a secondary market pricing problem with new products where almost all of the value every set (over the past year under this new make boosters fun again model) has been locked to just 2 or 3 mythics and their alternate arts each set making the cost of a box far higher than the value of its contents unless you hit the lotto. that problem will be exacerbated further by making these box toppers/premium packs only.
so why buy anything short of a box, why buy a nonpremium pack... ever?
why keep gambling?
this also doesn't really solve any pricing problems with fetches. it pretty much ensures that the haves can have more as they can afford to buy the boxes, and the have nots are poop out of luck as all they can afford are normal draft packs.
gamble.
we like to think people will flip them putting more onto the market but in reality we're all just hoarders. most of us are going to sit on them for years or bling out a deck and hold on to our normal versions for use elsewhere, while trying to dump the contents of the packs we crack from that box, or just leave them sealed in a closet for years.
i'm also not a fan of this strategy to sales because it means the set can be designed like hot garbage. it means we can get wave after wave of bans from grossly overpowered cards, stagnant standard seasons, or just straight up bad cards... and it doesn't even matter. the whole thing excuses mediocrity. why balance anything, we'll buy it anyway. the product will still sell and it sends a very clear message to the hasbro/wotc overlords that all they have to do is jam something like this into a set to make it a financial success.
consume.
put no effort into the product. buy. gamble. you could hit it big! what if that pack has an alternate art borderless foil [insert hot mythic], you know how much i want one of those!
hopefully i'm wrong, because if i'm not as time goes on the game will be... well we've all seen tcg's fail for similar reasons over the past 25+ years.
...and that's my rant for the day.
Uh, what? How can you complain about the price of boxes, and then be upset about getting free fetches? Everyone and their mother will come out for these, driving the price of all the chase cards down considerably. We’re also getting BAB promos with more or less confirmed value ahead of release, so anyone who couldn’t normally afford to shell out for a box can do so, safely, knowing they’ll get a decent return on whichever promo land they flip. And if they can afford to buy a box and still hoard the promo then so what? Good for them.
They don't want them in standard. They will be in boosters in the new Modern Horizons 2 though as well.
Understandably they can't be in Standard now, thanks to the Triomes being out, but they could easily be in Standard again if they stopped putting nonbasics with basic land types in a Standard rotation. If they are worried about them being in Pioneer they can ban the enemy fetches too.
I am aware they are in MH2, but those are not "normal boosters" (as in $4.)
WotC doesn't like fetches in standard for multiple reasons, including limiting them designwise from including duels with basic types, and shuffling time. It's vaguely possible in the right circumstances we could see them, but it's not just basic land types that WotC doesn't like about them.
I'm well aware of their reasons, although the shuffling one...well that dog don't hunt. They are absolutely fine with shuffle effects, we have plenty of it in Standard currently and many of them get played regularly or have previously, including a fetch land that is played often.
Back when fetches were in original Zendikar there was a lot of shuffle effects between Cawblade with Squadron Hawk and Stoneforge Mystic and Valakut with pretty much half the searching the deck running around (Cultivate, Harrow, Primeval Titan, Khalni Heart Expedition, Green Sun's Zenith, Summoning Trap), it was not fetches that caused that "problem" of shuffling. In fact fetches were the easiest as you only searched for a basic and were done in about five seconds.
If they were so concerned about shuffling they wouldn't do it as often.
The first expeditions were 1 per a CASE, so 1 every 6 boxes.
we are getting One per Box, 4 per collector box.
The demand of this product is going to be huge and we will see a ton of this lands around, this also makes collector boosters much better than the past ones, the min value of these will be 25 USD, so that's is going to be 50 USD per collectors box before you crack the boosters and get even more expeditions. Collectors boosters are going to be in very high demand.
I suspect the great demand for the set will push the price of regular fetches at least a bit, I expect some people will be looking to upgrade their fetchlands and sell the old ones. I am going to do it, still not sure if I will wait for singles or buy a collector box and see what I trade.
non foil creeping tar pit is not going to be a $25 card, I believe within two weeks of release at least 6 of these will be under $10 in non foil, probably 4 of the foils will be around 10.
Also, Zenikdar was not the last time we had fetches in standard.
Yes, thank you for proving my point there, especially since I pointed out Fabled Passage and based off the 2nd response from Maro they say they are testing it "a little" but when you look at the cards we have currently in Standard it sort of shows that they actually enjoy it between Solemn Simulacrum, Cultivate, Migration Path, Circuitous Route, Fabled Passage, Golos, The Birth of Meletis, Assassin's Trophy, Alpine Houndmaster, Beanstalk Giant, Field of Ruin, Migratory Greathorn, and many others that are played, and some decks have a combination of those cards so that "shuffling is an issue in organized play" from the first link and "There’s a difference between decks running four copies of one shuffling card and multiple copies" from the second link are complete bunk. Then you have the third link where he says basic land searching is fine compared to other tutoring, which actually goes against the "fetch lands cause problems" excuse.
The "shuffling takes too long" excuse was lame years ago and even more so now, especially when you look at what is currently being played and how much shuffling is going on.
Doesn't seem to be what everyone else is focusing on, but I hope this does a number on the price of the fastlands, Blackcleave Cliffs and Copperline Gorge could stand to be taken down a peg.
Kind of surprised that the new land cycle wasn't on the list though, didn't they do that the last time expeditions were a thing?
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Also, Zenikdar was not the last time we had fetches in standard.
Yes, thank you for proving my point there,
No, the point of Zendikar not being the last time we had fetches is that pointing at how much shuffling we had during Zendikar standard too suggest that fetches weren't the problem is pointless when they've been in standard more recently, and importantly more recently as they've been gradually toning down shuffling.
especially since I pointed out Fabled Passage and based off the 2nd response from Maro they say they are testing it "a little" but when you look at the cards we have currently in Standard it sort of shows that they actually enjoy it between Solemn Simulacrum, Cultivate, Migration Path, Circuitous Route, Fabled Passage, Golos, The Birth of Meletis, Assassin's Trophy, Alpine Houndmaster, Beanstalk Giant, Field of Ruin, Migratory Greathorn, and many others that are played and some decks have a combination of those cards so that "shuffling is an issue in organized play" from the first link and "There’s a difference between decks running four copies of one shuffling card and multiple copies" from the second link are complete bunk. Then you have the third link where he says basic land searching is fine compared to other tutoring, which actually goes against the "fetch lands cause problems" excuse.
Note how almost all of these cards fetch basic lands for ramp and filtering effects. That's the kind of effect WotC wants shuffling for. It's different from fetch lands in that lands can just tap for whatever colour instead of fetching, but these kinds of cards want specifically want to give you more lands (and we do see a good number of Explore type cards and Mana dorks to help out, but they can't easily replace your Rampant Growths and Lay of the Lands). And as well, these kinds of cards even if they are spread out somewhat widely are still more strategically specific than fetch lands, which end up played in virtually every deck.
The goal has never been to eliminate shuffling or even massively reduce it, just keep it within reasonable bounds.
The "shuffling takes too long" excuse was lame years ago and even more so now, especially when you look at what is currently being played and how much shuffling is going on.
I'm pretty sure WotC is actually keeping track of the data on that. And I don't think they're lying about thinking shuffling can be a problem and that's one of the reasons they don't want the fetchlands when they could easily just say they don't like the fetchlands for power level and leave it at that.
It's funny how in one thread I read about how Wizards are just pretending to care about shuffling and should return fetchlands, then in another thread I read about how modal DFC lands are not exploring new design space and should just be landcycling instead. This very set in the modal DFCs is evidence that they care about shuffling, because they care so much about it that this is valuable design space for them.
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[thread=239793][Game] Level Up - Creature[/thread]
Source: https://news.toyark.com/2020/09/01/magic-the-gathering-zendikar-rising-spoilers-and-2021-set-announcements-400518
(Mods: if this is already in another post, please delete... I did a quick keyword search of "Expeditions" in the first page here and got no hits
It's really not surprising if they can't be in normal packs, for some reason fetches have been relegated to some mystical status that they can never be in normal boosters ever again lest it rend the entire secondary market in twain.
I just want to know what the OTHER 12 are since the numbering is up to 30.
Plus more clarification on where and how often they can be found
Been on this forum for 10++ years
Playing since '94
Well, we know that Ancient Tomb will be one of them.
Yes.
They don't want them in standard. They will be in boosters in the new Modern Horizons 2 though as well.
RUNIN: Norse mythology set (awaiting further playtesting)
FATE of ALARA: Multicolour factions (currently on hiatus)
Contibutor to the Pyrulea community set
I'm here to tell you that all your set mechanics are bad
#Defundthepolice
Cavern of souls
Wasteland
Prismatic vista
My guess we get:
Karakas
Ancient tomb
Urborg, tomb of yawgmoth
Rishidan port
Mana confluence
Visuva
????
Past expeditions in booster didn't make the cards legal in standard. It's unrelated.
While expeditions are extra and don't take anything from the set, announcing "expeditions are back!" then immediately yanking them out of our expectation by not including them in normal boosters make me, and I suppose others, sad and disappointed. Then again, MtG marketing / products have taken a definitive turn toward exploiting whales who happily pay up for exclusive products.
Understandably they can't be in Standard now, thanks to the Triomes being out, but they could easily be in Standard again if they stopped putting nonbasics with basic land types in a Standard rotation. If they are worried about them being in Pioneer they can ban the enemy fetches too.
I am aware they are in MH2, but those are not "normal boosters" (as in $4.)
nailed it!
i hadn't considered the idea that it bumps what we accepted as a normal rare and bumps it up to some status that is unreasonable to have at rare in a pack. we should also be angry over that. these aren't some mythical hyper powerful set of cards, and its not our fault they're too lazy or too disjointed to be able to design a standard environment where fetches are fair. we should expect better of wotc, and we shouldn't blindly accept this kind of thing - and we shouldn't be solely be blaming hasbro either. wotc has a hand in this. they are just as culpable.
regardless, this is what i had to say about these expeditions elsewhere:
they'd be a lot cooler if they appeared randomly instead of just as box toppers/in premium packs.
not really cool with them being box toppers/premium pack only because so many will be after these that the contents of a pack will decrease in value even further as the volume of cards put onto the market increases. make no mistake people will buy whole boxes just for these (even if they're kinda fugly).
there's already a secondary market pricing problem with new products where almost all of the value every set (over the past year under this new make boosters fun again model) has been locked to just 2 or 3 mythics and their alternate arts each set making the cost of a box far higher than the value of its contents unless you hit the lotto. that problem will be exacerbated further by making these box toppers/premium packs only.
so why buy anything short of a box, why buy a nonpremium pack... ever?
why keep gambling?
this also doesn't really solve any pricing problems with fetches. it pretty much ensures that the haves can have more as they can afford to buy the boxes, and the have nots are poop out of luck as all they can afford are normal draft packs.
gamble.
we like to think people will flip them putting more onto the market but in reality we're all just hoarders. most of us are going to sit on them for years or bling out a deck and hold on to our normal versions for use elsewhere, while trying to dump the contents of the packs we crack from that box, or just leave them sealed in a closet for years.
i'm also not a fan of this strategy to sales because it means the set can be designed like hot garbage. it means we can get wave after wave of bans from grossly overpowered cards, stagnant standard seasons, or just straight up bad cards... and it doesn't even matter. the whole thing excuses mediocrity. why balance anything, we'll buy it anyway. the product will still sell and it sends a very clear message to the hasbro/wotc overlords that all they have to do is jam something like this into a set to make it a financial success.
consume.
put no effort into the product. buy. gamble. you could hit it big! what if that pack has an alternate art borderless foil [insert hot mythic], you know how much i want one of those!
hopefully i'm wrong, because if i'm not as time goes on the game will be... well we've all seen tcg's fail for similar reasons over the past 25+ years.
...and that's my rant for the day.
The comment was on fetches, not expeditions. Fetches will be appearing in boosters again, so yes, they have no aversion to putting them in boosters. That was actually my point- WotC's aversion is towards putting fetches in standard.
Putting them in normal boosters (the way they originally did it. at least) would feel *more* exploitative to me. This way you get guaranteed Expeditions from buying boxes. Makes it more consistent. And in collector boosters, they are showing up here at a fairly decent rate (1 in 6), so again, you can reliably expect to pick a few up. Sure, you won't be able to randomly get them playing limited games this time, or from simply buying random boosters, in a way that might make many ordinary players less likely to stumble upon one, but the chances of getting Expeditions was about 1 in 432 packs so you were more likely to never get one and buying individual boosters has never been a good way to collect cards anyway. Them appearing as they did originally in ordinary boosters, but at an extraordinarily low rate, was excellent whale bait, were you could randomly buy a few packs, get an expedition, then develop an inflated sense of the likelihood of opening one, and churn through another 300 packs without seeing another one.
Maybe I'm missing something, but this seems like an easily better way of including 'ultra-premium' cards like this. I guess if they included them in regular boosters on top of this it would be better in a sense, but it would again encourage the kind of pack churning I mentioned so I'm not sure if the small bonus chance would actually be worth it.
RUNIN: Norse mythology set (awaiting further playtesting)
FATE of ALARA: Multicolour factions (currently on hiatus)
Contibutor to the Pyrulea community set
I'm here to tell you that all your set mechanics are bad
#Defundthepolice
WotC doesn't like fetches in standard for multiple reasons, including limiting them designwise from including duals with basic types, and shuffling time. It's vaguely possible in the right circumstances we could see them, but it's not just basic land types on duals that WotC doesn't like about them.
See here:
https://markrosewater.tumblr.com/post/627769541452251136/what-is-the-playability-reasoning-behind-not
https://markrosewater.tumblr.com/post/627805658164674560/so-with-the-3-reasons-previously-given-in-a
https://markrosewater.tumblr.com/post/627804833389445121/on-the-topic-of-fetches-ive-always-found-the
RUNIN: Norse mythology set (awaiting further playtesting)
FATE of ALARA: Multicolour factions (currently on hiatus)
Contibutor to the Pyrulea community set
I'm here to tell you that all your set mechanics are bad
#Defundthepolice
Then you'll get 2 non-foil toppers and in the packs you'll get 2 foil toppers.
And of course you still only have a 1 in 3 chance to get a "fetch" land
Been on this forum for 10++ years
Playing since '94
11 - 15 Fast lands
16 - 20 Battlebond
21 Ancient Tomb
22 Cavern of souls
23 Celestial Colonade
24 Creepong Tar pit
25 Grove of the burnwillows
26 Horizon Canopy
27 Prismatic Vista
28 Strip Mine
29 Valukut the molten pinnacle
30 Wasteland
I'm well aware of their reasons, although the shuffling one...well that dog don't hunt. They are absolutely fine with shuffle effects, we have plenty of it in Standard currently and many of them get played regularly or have previously, including a fetch land that is played often.
Back when fetches were in original Zendikar there was a lot of shuffle effects between Cawblade with Squadron Hawk and Stoneforge Mystic and Valakut with pretty much half the searching the deck running around (Cultivate, Harrow, Primeval Titan, Khalni Heart Expedition, Green Sun's Zenith, Summoning Trap), it was not fetches that caused that "problem" of shuffling. In fact fetches were the easiest as you only searched for a basic and were done in about five seconds.
If they were so concerned about shuffling they wouldn't do it as often.
Uh, what? How can you complain about the price of boxes, and then be upset about getting free fetches? Everyone and their mother will come out for these, driving the price of all the chase cards down considerably. We’re also getting BAB promos with more or less confirmed value ahead of release, so anyone who couldn’t normally afford to shell out for a box can do so, safely, knowing they’ll get a decent return on whichever promo land they flip. And if they can afford to buy a box and still hoard the promo then so what? Good for them.
—
#BLM
#DefundThePolice
---
#BLM
#DefundThePolice
https://markrosewater.tumblr.com/post/40769684035/it-seems-like-there-is-a-lot-more-deck-shuffling#notes
https://markrosewater.tumblr.com/post/627844810911399936/regarding-fetch-lands-in-standard-if-shuffling-is
https://markrosewater.tumblr.com/post/145475669833/is-landcycling-also-an-8-on-the-storm-scale-i#notes
Also, Zenikdar was not the last time we had fetches in standard.
RUNIN: Norse mythology set (awaiting further playtesting)
FATE of ALARA: Multicolour factions (currently on hiatus)
Contibutor to the Pyrulea community set
I'm here to tell you that all your set mechanics are bad
#Defundthepolice
we are getting One per Box, 4 per collector box.
The demand of this product is going to be huge and we will see a ton of this lands around, this also makes collector boosters much better than the past ones, the min value of these will be 25 USD, so that's is going to be 50 USD per collectors box before you crack the boosters and get even more expeditions. Collectors boosters are going to be in very high demand.
I suspect the great demand for the set will push the price of regular fetches at least a bit, I expect some people will be looking to upgrade their fetchlands and sell the old ones. I am going to do it, still not sure if I will wait for singles or buy a collector box and see what I trade.
Yes, thank you for proving my point there, especially since I pointed out Fabled Passage and based off the 2nd response from Maro they say they are testing it "a little" but when you look at the cards we have currently in Standard it sort of shows that they actually enjoy it between Solemn Simulacrum, Cultivate, Migration Path, Circuitous Route, Fabled Passage, Golos, The Birth of Meletis, Assassin's Trophy, Alpine Houndmaster, Beanstalk Giant, Field of Ruin, Migratory Greathorn, and many others that are played, and some decks have a combination of those cards so that "shuffling is an issue in organized play" from the first link and "There’s a difference between decks running four copies of one shuffling card and multiple copies" from the second link are complete bunk. Then you have the third link where he says basic land searching is fine compared to other tutoring, which actually goes against the "fetch lands cause problems" excuse.
The "shuffling takes too long" excuse was lame years ago and even more so now, especially when you look at what is currently being played and how much shuffling is going on.
Kind of surprised that the new land cycle wasn't on the list though, didn't they do that the last time expeditions were a thing?
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No, the point of Zendikar not being the last time we had fetches is that pointing at how much shuffling we had during Zendikar standard too suggest that fetches weren't the problem is pointless when they've been in standard more recently, and importantly more recently as they've been gradually toning down shuffling.
Note how almost all of these cards fetch basic lands for ramp and filtering effects. That's the kind of effect WotC wants shuffling for. It's different from fetch lands in that lands can just tap for whatever colour instead of fetching, but these kinds of cards want specifically want to give you more lands (and we do see a good number of Explore type cards and Mana dorks to help out, but they can't easily replace your Rampant Growths and Lay of the Lands). And as well, these kinds of cards even if they are spread out somewhat widely are still more strategically specific than fetch lands, which end up played in virtually every deck.
The goal has never been to eliminate shuffling or even massively reduce it, just keep it within reasonable bounds.
I'm pretty sure WotC is actually keeping track of the data on that. And I don't think they're lying about thinking shuffling can be a problem and that's one of the reasons they don't want the fetchlands when they could easily just say they don't like the fetchlands for power level and leave it at that.
RUNIN: Norse mythology set (awaiting further playtesting)
FATE of ALARA: Multicolour factions (currently on hiatus)
Contibutor to the Pyrulea community set
I'm here to tell you that all your set mechanics are bad
#Defundthepolice
Finally a good white villain quote: "So, do I ever re-evaluate my life choices? Never, because I know what I'm doing is a righteous cause."
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