Well Jace is an illusionist, nice to see this reflected more on cards.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
“There are no weak Jews. I am descended from those who wrestle angels and kill giants. We were chosen by God. You were chosen by a pathetic little man who can't seem to grow a full mustache"
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
I think this card is already underestimated. 3 Mana 6 Lyalality & rapidly growin by a Scry 2, which can grant you huge advantage over the course of the game. You will from there on mostly draw good cards for as long as Jace is around.
Idk. This +2 & his 0 remind me of Sensei's divining top.
Not exactly, 3 mana gets you 5 loyalty if you +1. You need to pay the kicker cost to get 6 loyalty (+1 on the token into 0 on the nontoken and draw a land). So 5 mana is ideal here.
However I do think he might he’ll perform better than expected mainly because he’s not a win condition and he doesn’t hurt the opponent’s board, so your opponent has very little incentive to attack him which might mean he’ll stick around as a nice little engine for the player. Also the at the worst he can be used to “cycle” into a new card or two means he’s not a completely dead draw late game.
I was so worried the Jace art wasn't going to be good by having his hood up and covering everything, which would be so lame.
But to see both versions actually have such stunning art and a cool on-theme effect that captures Jace's power suite, and actually showing him make me so happy! I can't wait to get both versions of this card and add them to my Jace deck
GAHHHHH Jace on one of my favorite planes. I just love it!
And this true does evoke Ixalan for me, in theme and in abilities as a throwback to Cunning Castaway. I really loved Ixalan and its short stories by Alison Lurhs so I am ALL about this.
I was so worried the Jace art wasn't going to be good by having his hood up and covering everything, which would be so lame.
But to see both versions actually have such stunning art and a cool on-theme effect that captures Jace's power suite, and actually showing him make me so happy! I can't wait to get both versions of this card and add them to my Jace deck
GAHHHHH Jace on one of my favorite planes. I just love it!
And this true does evoke Ixalan for me, in theme and in abilities as a throwback to Cunning Castaway. I really loved Ixalan and its short stories by Alison Lurhs so I am ALL about this.
When I first saw this spoiler, my first thought was "Tiro is gonna lose it!" HEHE! Cheers.
If I read this correctly, you can still draw a card with the 0 when Jace is on 1 even if it's a 11 mana cost card, right? If so, the kicker copy isn't half bad. Set up the draw with the real card, kill the copy to get what you need.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Currently Playing: Standard:
Nothing, the format Bores me! Legacy: RBurn (Made on the Cheap!)R RGBelcherRG WSoldier StompyW BReanimatorB EDH: BUGRWSliver OverlordWRGUB BGeth, Lord of the VaultB
why does the full art jace look like he is being possesed by tibalt ?
and why do people think he is bad or underwhelming. you put 2 walkers on the battlefield that synergize with each other that have to be handled. i think having 2 of them is the real problem here. for some decks it might be a challenge... u know, cards like eliminate wont be good enough here
I was so worried the Jace art wasn't going to be good by having his hood up and covering everything, which would be so lame.
But to see both versions actually have such stunning art and a cool on-theme effect that captures Jace's power suite, and actually showing him make me so happy! I can't wait to get both versions of this card and add them to my Jace deck
GAHHHHH Jace on one of my favorite planes. I just love it!
And this true does evoke Ixalan for me, in theme and in abilities as a throwback to Cunning Castaway. I really loved Ixalan and its short stories by Alison Lurhs so I am ALL about this.
When I first saw this spoiler, my first thought was "Tiro is gonna lose it!" HEHE! Cheers.
And I totally did. I opened MTGS and I did NOT expect to see JACE as the first thread. I've been on pins and needles waiting for September 1st to see if the card I anticipated most from this set would have good art and let me tell you... I did not expect to be so pleasantly surprised today!
I am so thrilled to absolute death and back with this art and card JACE ON ZENDIKAR! My second favorite plane. Well, it's in a three way tie with Lorwyn and Kamigawa, but you get the idea.
I was so pissed when I first saw the Zendikar pack art thinking Jace would have hooded, concealed and heavily rendered CGI artwork. But my my my Tyler Jacobson, have you delivered some beauty for me todayyyyyy
As for the borderless art - the art itself is brilliant too, except for the face. The artist did an exceptional job on the surroundings, the mini-scenes and Jace's physique - but what is with that evil expression? Anyway who cares, I am getting both.
AND I AM GOING TO USE THE BORDERLESS VERSION TO REPRESENT THE JACE COPY
If I read this correctly, you can still draw a card with the 0 when Jace is on 1 even if it's a 11 mana cost card, right? If so, the kicker copy isn't half bad. Set up the draw with the real card, kill the copy to get what you need.
Correct, by default the only cost in activating a Planeswalker's Loyalty ability is the Loyalty decrease/increase itself. That said, the copy will die.
And yes, you can also do it the other way around. If you need something with a low CMC or a land, you can instead use the copy to set-up and the original to draw for little to no cost.
and why do people think he is bad or underwhelming.
It's certainly not bad, just not very flashy for a planeswalker. He can't protect himself, though creating a second copy offers a bit of cushion. "All he does" is scry and draw cards, which I don't think anyone can dismiss as useless, it's just not game winning on its own. Consistency and card advantage in a cost-effective package is always going to be appealing, if in some cases underwhelming.
Effective utility will win games, even if it doesn't have much wow factor.
Honestly I love the card. It's a Sun Titan target with options. I love scrying and drawing, representing Jace's telepathy, and the Kicker represents his illusionist powers. Perfect capture of his power suite with amazing artwork.
Ugh I already just love this set, and knew I would. But now it's certain
What's up with the faces on the promo version? So goofy, the Jace in the front looks like a cartoon bad guy and the one in the back is having a tummy ache.
Love the card, love the art... but honestly that kicker placement and the text box arrangement gives looks ugly. It seriously gives of bad magic set editor vibes.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Drop your knees to the floor
Hands to the sky
Give a round of applause
For the great Miss Y!
Love the card, love the art... but honestly that kicker placement and the text box arrangement gives looks ugly. It seriously gives of bad magic set editor vibes.
Agreed, I thought it looked like odd formatting.
The face on the promo gives me Scarecrow from Batman vibes haha
If I read this correctly, you can still draw a card with the 0 when Jace is on 1 even if it's a 11 mana cost card, right? If so, the kicker copy isn't half bad. Set up the draw with the real card, kill the copy to get what you need.
Correct, by default the only cost in activating a Planeswalker's Loyalty ability is the Loyalty decrease/increase itself. That said, the copy will die.
And yes, you can also do it the other way around. If you need something with a low CMC or a land, you can instead use the copy to set-up and the original to draw for little to no cost.
If this is true then this might create more shenanigans in Standard, much less Pioneer, much less Modern, than I care to think about.
I'm bad Ash, and you're good Ash... You're goody little two shoes.
A shiny nickel to whomever guesses my movie reference first.
A nickel is way too much. You gave too many clues.
Klatuu, verata......
That's okay, there's a shortage of spare change right now anyway. But good call on the movie. How about a WarMachinePrime signed Swamp, postage not included.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Playing since 1994: Currently MAGS (HomeBrew),Standard & Pauper (Pioneer and Modern are degenerate trash formats)
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
I'm bad Ash, and you're good Ash... You're goody little two shoes.
A shiny nickel to whomever guesses my movie reference first.
A nickel is way too much. You gave too many clues.
Klatuu, verata......
That's okay, there's a shortage of spare change right now anyway. But good call on the movie. How about a WarMachinePrime signed Swamp, postage not included.
and why do people think he is bad or underwhelming.
People are spoiled by the broken planeswalker that infested the last standard. Nowadays if a planeswalker can't win a game alone is bad.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
How i feel about competitive players and casual players in EDH: The competitive are german tourists, the casual are italian tourists, both in a italian beach. The italians asking themselves "why are the germans here?" make a legitimate question, the answer is because the beach is beautiful, no matter the country you came from. The italians wanting to ban the germans are dumb, because if the germans pay for their stay and follow the rules like everyone else, they have the right to be in the beach. Hovewer, if the germans started to ask themselves "why are the italians here?"... they would be dumb as hell.
I'm bad Ash, and you're good Ash... You're goody little two shoes.
A shiny nickel to whomever guesses my movie reference first.
A nickel is way too much. You gave too many clues.
Klatuu, verata......
That's okay, there's a shortage of spare change right now anyway. But good call on the movie. How about a WarMachinePrime signed Swamp, postage not included.
If I pay and essentially get "Scry 1, draw a card"... in a way that reveals the card drawn and may not be repeatable... I feel that I'd be better off with Jace, Unraveler of Secrets (which I don't recall being called a super amazing card... and also comes with protection... and a good ult).
With that said, I do like this card better for standard (where 5 mana needs a lot more of an immediate advantage but a bonus added to a 3 mana card may be more forgivable in a control shell), I personally prefer Unraveler.
and why do people think he is bad or underwhelming.
People are spoiled by the broken planeswalker that infested the last standard. Nowadays if a planeswalker can't win a game alone is bad.
In fairness, wasn't one of the principles of the Planeswalker card type that they should be able to win the game on their own? Certainly not easily, and they've drifted away from that principle with time. Notably in War of the Spark where a lot of the uncommon walkers couldn't win the game for you, though other walkers before and after similarly couldn't win games for you alone if left to their own devices (and were not thought of highly more often than not). Still, Planeswalkers were always intended to be game winners and there is a level of expectation from players that new walkers be more on the flashy, impressive side.
That doesn't mean they need to be broken, there's obviously a balance to be struck. This Jace is just on the more subdued end of that balance, useful but strictly support for the actual game winning cards in your deck. It's not surprising that the response from many is just whelmed, and I'm not sure that has anything to do with being spoiled by broken walkers in Standard.
It’s interesting though because for 5 mana you end up with two instances of scry 2, and two Planeswakers with 7 loyalty between them. That can draw you two cards at once, and potentially survive that, the next turn. Divination is 3 mana, so that really isn’t too shabby. Especially after Scrying that many cards the previous turn.
If I pay and essentially get "Scry 1, draw a card"... in a way that reveals the card drawn and may not be repeatable... I feel that I'd be better off with Jace, Unraveler of Secrets (which I don't recall being called a super amazing card... and also comes with protection... and a good ult).
With that said, I do like this card better for standard (where 5 mana needs a lot more of an immediate advantage but a bonus added to a 3 mana card may be more forgivable in a control shell), I personally prefer Unraveler.
Yeah, it is a pretty good comparison. That said, spreading up your bodies in a Planeswalker is very relevant in Control matchups, where most Planeswalker interaction comes in the form of single target spells like Murderous Rider instead of creature damage. But the real advantage of Kicker spells is always going to be being able to fill up two spots in your curve, not raw power. I for one think that "Card X is stronger while Card Y gives you more options" is way more fun than "Card Y > Card X".
and why do people think he is bad or underwhelming.
It's certainly not bad, just not very flashy for a planeswalker. He can't protect himself, though creating a second copy offers a bit of cushion. "All he does" is scry and draw cards, which I don't think anyone can dismiss as useless, it's just not game winning on its own. Consistency and card advantage in a cost-effective package is always going to be appealing, if in some cases underwhelming.
Effective utility will win games, even if it doesn't have much wow factor.
Mm, absence of an ultimate seems to contribute to a lack of flashy "punch," although the kicker does somewhat substitute for that.
This is a bit more subtly designed than a lot of the "draw a card" effects that get printed. Which is to say, "draw a card" has become so commonplace that it's begun to feel a little boring (especially in blue and green), which I sense from what you're saying. But I like this design even though it doesn't wow right away. Certainly it would be a shame if every planeswalker started to look like this though.
In other news, smiling Jace is nightmare fuel.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
Well Jace is an illusionist, nice to see this reflected more on cards.
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
Not exactly, 3 mana gets you 5 loyalty if you +1. You need to pay the kicker cost to get 6 loyalty (+1 on the token into 0 on the nontoken and draw a land). So 5 mana is ideal here.
However I do think he might he’ll perform better than expected mainly because he’s not a win condition and he doesn’t hurt the opponent’s board, so your opponent has very little incentive to attack him which might mean he’ll stick around as a nice little engine for the player. Also the at the worst he can be used to “cycle” into a new card or two means he’s not a completely dead draw late game.
I was so worried the Jace art wasn't going to be good by having his hood up and covering everything, which would be so lame.
But to see both versions actually have such stunning art and a cool on-theme effect that captures Jace's power suite, and actually showing him make me so happy! I can't wait to get both versions of this card and add them to my Jace deck
GAHHHHH Jace on one of my favorite planes. I just love it!
And this true does evoke Ixalan for me, in theme and in abilities as a throwback to Cunning Castaway. I really loved Ixalan and its short stories by Alison Lurhs so I am ALL about this.
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Kenessos, Priest of Thassa (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||
When I first saw this spoiler, my first thought was "Tiro is gonna lose it!" HEHE! Cheers.
Currently Playing:
Standard:
Nothing, the format Bores me!
Legacy:
RBurn (Made on the Cheap!)R
RGBelcherRG
WSoldier StompyW
BReanimatorB
EDH:
BUGRWSliver OverlordWRGUB
BGeth, Lord of the VaultB
and why do people think he is bad or underwhelming. you put 2 walkers on the battlefield that synergize with each other that have to be handled. i think having 2 of them is the real problem here. for some decks it might be a challenge... u know, cards like eliminate wont be good enough here
I am so thrilled to absolute death and back with this art and card JACE ON ZENDIKAR! My second favorite plane. Well, it's in a three way tie with Lorwyn and Kamigawa, but you get the idea.
I was so pissed when I first saw the Zendikar pack art thinking Jace would have hooded, concealed and heavily rendered CGI artwork. But my my my Tyler Jacobson, have you delivered some beauty for me todayyyyyy
As for the borderless art - the art itself is brilliant too, except for the face. The artist did an exceptional job on the surroundings, the mini-scenes and Jace's physique - but what is with that evil expression? Anyway who cares, I am getting both.
AND I AM GOING TO USE THE BORDERLESS VERSION TO REPRESENT THE JACE COPY
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Kenessos, Priest of Thassa (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||
And yes, you can also do it the other way around. If you need something with a low CMC or a land, you can instead use the copy to set-up and the original to draw for little to no cost.
It's certainly not bad, just not very flashy for a planeswalker. He can't protect himself, though creating a second copy offers a bit of cushion. "All he does" is scry and draw cards, which I don't think anyone can dismiss as useless, it's just not game winning on its own. Consistency and card advantage in a cost-effective package is always going to be appealing, if in some cases underwhelming.
Effective utility will win games, even if it doesn't have much wow factor.
Archatmos
Excellion
Fracture: Israfiel (WBR), Wujal (URG), Valedon (GUB), Amduat (BGW), Paladris (RWU)
Collision (Set Two of the Fracture Block)
Quest for the Forsaken (Set Two of the Excellion Block)
Katingal: Plane of Chains
Ugh I already just love this set, and knew I would. But now it's certain
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Kenessos, Priest of Thassa (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||
Hands to the sky
Give a round of applause
For the great Miss Y!
The face on the promo gives me Scarecrow from Batman vibes haha
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Kenessos, Priest of Thassa (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||
If this is true then this might create more shenanigans in Standard, much less Pioneer, much less Modern, than I care to think about.
EDH DECKS
Currently under construction
MAGECRAFT STORM
-Veyran, Voice of Duality-
Protection from Degeneracy
Do not pray for an easy life. Pray for the strength to endure a difficult one.
That's okay, there's a shortage of spare change right now anyway. But good call on the movie. How about a WarMachinePrime signed Swamp, postage not included.
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
Are you a goody lil' two shoes, WarMachinePrime?
EDH DECKS
Currently under construction
MAGECRAFT STORM
-Veyran, Voice of Duality-
Protection from Degeneracy
Do not pray for an easy life. Pray for the strength to endure a difficult one.
People are spoiled by the broken planeswalker that infested the last standard. Nowadays if a planeswalker can't win a game alone is bad.
Oh, and I want a signed foil snow-covered swamp for my Skithiryx, the Blight Dragon deck, friend... (kidding)
EDH DECKS
Currently under construction
MAGECRAFT STORM
-Veyran, Voice of Duality-
Protection from Degeneracy
Do not pray for an easy life. Pray for the strength to endure a difficult one.
If I pay and essentially get "Scry 1, draw a card"... in a way that reveals the card drawn and may not be repeatable... I feel that I'd be better off with Jace, Unraveler of Secrets (which I don't recall being called a super amazing card... and also comes with protection... and a good ult).
With that said, I do like this card better for standard (where 5 mana needs a lot more of an immediate advantage but a bonus added to a 3 mana card may be more forgivable in a control shell), I personally prefer Unraveler.
In fairness, wasn't one of the principles of the Planeswalker card type that they should be able to win the game on their own? Certainly not easily, and they've drifted away from that principle with time. Notably in War of the Spark where a lot of the uncommon walkers couldn't win the game for you, though other walkers before and after similarly couldn't win games for you alone if left to their own devices (and were not thought of highly more often than not). Still, Planeswalkers were always intended to be game winners and there is a level of expectation from players that new walkers be more on the flashy, impressive side.
That doesn't mean they need to be broken, there's obviously a balance to be struck. This Jace is just on the more subdued end of that balance, useful but strictly support for the actual game winning cards in your deck. It's not surprising that the response from many is just whelmed, and I'm not sure that has anything to do with being spoiled by broken walkers in Standard.
Archatmos
Excellion
Fracture: Israfiel (WBR), Wujal (URG), Valedon (GUB), Amduat (BGW), Paladris (RWU)
Collision (Set Two of the Fracture Block)
Quest for the Forsaken (Set Two of the Excellion Block)
Katingal: Plane of Chains
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Kenessos, Priest of Thassa (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||
Mm, absence of an ultimate seems to contribute to a lack of flashy "punch," although the kicker does somewhat substitute for that.
This is a bit more subtly designed than a lot of the "draw a card" effects that get printed. Which is to say, "draw a card" has become so commonplace that it's begun to feel a little boring (especially in blue and green), which I sense from what you're saying. But I like this design even though it doesn't wow right away. Certainly it would be a shame if every planeswalker started to look like this though.
In other news, smiling Jace is nightmare fuel.