I was responding directly to the points you raised. Then you started shotgunning with facetious nonsequiturs and a strawman or two.
I had thought better of you.
I'm not following you here, a fact which I'm brave enough to admit is deliciously ironic.
Perhaps I simply don't value the data you presented the same way that you clearly do, unless I'm missing a more in depth analysis from LGS* that wasn't forthcoming in your original post. The impact of 'a nice little graph' is somewhat diminished if you can't assume all other factors to be equal, especially over a span of ~15 years, and coming from a company known to be shy about their innermost workings. I'll try to be more direct in the future, but in the mean time you're free to send me proprietary information via personal message.
Insofar as Hasbro is concerned, I simply fail to discern a practical difference between spending money to improve the quality of their products (commensurate with player expectations, for whatever that's worth here), and conceding potential earnings by cutting their production schedule. If your point is about card quality, you got me - I'm still stuck on the dubious notion of 'wallet fatigue' being promoted on this forum. Perhaps it wasn't right to direct that at you.
It comes down to buy what you want, ignore the rest. There's an element of self-regulation and awareness embedded here.
A diverse customer base has diverse needs. The company is merely responding to those needs. It's a pretty simple concept that has numerous applications elsewhere as well.
'buster
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
'buster
HR Analyst. Gamer. Activist | Fearless, and forthright | Aggro-control is a mindset. Elspeth and Jhoira rock my world.
[Criticism becomes pretty easy to ignore when it eventually turns from constructive to repetitive. It serves no one's best interest to to be a broken record on the subject, especially if it's coming from the same people every time. Trust me, we get it already.
---
#BLM
#DefundThePolice
As you still rightfully support complaining about police brutality perpetrated disproportionately and without impunity against people of color (see quote), I assume you can agree that reapeating the same complains as long as the *reason* for those complains still persist, is indeed rather understandle, no? This "broken record" talking point was also famously used against Bernie Sanders because he fought for LGBTIQA+ rights, women's rights, POC rights, living wage, universal healthcare for ages, because those problems weren't sufficiently dealt with for ages.
DISCLAIMER: Not comparing, talking about a principle.
So, as long as the reasons for the complaints aren't either fixed *or* invalidated, yes, there's no reason for this record to keep playing, other than people being more annoyed by the complaints than they are by the reasons for those complaints.
[Criticism becomes pretty easy to ignore when it eventually turns from constructive to repetitive. It serves no one's best interest to to be a broken record on the subject, especially if it's coming from the same people every time. Trust me, we get it already.
---
#BLM
#DefundThePolice
As you still rightfully support complaining about police brutality perpetrated disproportionately and without impunity against people of color (see quote), I assume you can agree that reapeating the same complains as long as the *reason* for those complains still persist, is indeed rather understandle, no? This "broken record" talking point was also famously used against Bernie Sanders because he fought for LGBTIQA+ rights, women's rights, POC rights, living wage, universal healthcare for ages, because those problems weren't sufficiently dealt with for ages.
DISCLAIMER: Not comparing, talking about a principle.
So, as long as the reasons for the complaints aren't either fixed *or* invalidated, yes, there's no reason for this record to keep playing, other than people being more annoyed by the complaints than they are by the reasons for those complaints.
Just because you disagree with a complaint, or it has not yet caused change, does not invalidate it or remove it from discussion.
If its recurring, well then its recurring. That doesnt diminish its validity.
We want to fix the house not ignore the hole in the roof.
[Criticism becomes pretty easy to ignore when it eventually turns from constructive to repetitive. It serves no one's best interest to to be a broken record on the subject, especially if it's coming from the same people every time. Trust me, we get it already.
---
#BLM
#DefundThePolice
As you still rightfully support complaining about police brutality perpetrated disproportionately and without impunity against people of color (see quote), I assume you can agree that reapeating the same complains as long as the *reason* for those complains still persist, is indeed rather understandle, no? This "broken record" talking point was also famously used against Bernie Sanders because he fought for LGBTIQA+ rights, women's rights, POC rights, living wage, universal healthcare for ages, because those problems weren't sufficiently dealt with for ages.
DISCLAIMER: Not comparing, talking about a principle.
So, as long as the reasons for the complaints aren't either fixed *or* invalidated, yes, there's no reason for this record to keep playing, other than people being more annoyed by the complaints than they are by the reasons for those complaints.
I feel like I’ve already explained to you at some point what a false equivalence is. There is a world of difference between something you just don’t like, and something that is fundamentally wrong.
Also, this was neatly addressed already in my followup post (#30). How many points of comparison can you draw between criteria a, b, and c?
Okay, so without any comparisons: The "broken record" approach is a weak attack that doesn't address whether or not a complaint is valid, only how long it has persisted or how frequently it has been brought up.
Such a method is *bound* to be used against you or people you agree with when continually addressing a problem that doesn't get fixed, and by using that method yourself you are validating it.
There's nothing wrong with (genuinely) discussing the validity of someone's perceived problem, or how severe it might be.
doesn't the fact that a problem is being reported repeatedly by multiple people and is not being adressed by wotc make it stand out even more?
back on topic - i hate this kindof announcements of announcements. i eagerly wait for the moment that we will get anouncements of announcement announcements. /s
it would be great if instead of pr messages of no value we got actual information followed by information of current status of product shipment delays. i think everyone understands that under current circumstances delays are inevitable and woiuld apreciate wotc being more open about that.
Okay, so without any comparisons: The "broken record" approach is a weak attack that doesn't address whether or not a complaint is valid, only how long it has persisted or how frequently it has been brought up.
Such a method is *bound* to be used against you or people you agree with when continually addressing a problem that doesn't get fixed, and by using that method yourself you are validating it.
There's nothing wrong with (genuinely) discussing the validity of someone's perceived problem, or how severe it might be.
See my linked post above, then we can continue this conversation.
Mods should lock Beaver, he’s a troll in egalitarian clothes.
Public Mod Note
(bobthefunny):
Warning - Flaming. Reminder to users, if you have an issue with a post, please report it. Attacking individuals is never an acceptable behavior.
My two cents is most of these "issues" are things people are looking for reasons to be upset when we literally know very little about this set yet. We don't know if this set will have higher prices yet, or if we will get collector boosters.
If your upset about product fatigue, while valid, there are people who want more magic in general. This produce is also in the line of side sets (battle bond, conspiracy, planes chase) so there is an argument this isn't really "extra". We where gonna get something around this time, even if they got rid of the secret lairs, unsets and jumpstart.
As for shipping, not to get off topic, but the USPS isn't doing so good right now and we are in the middle of a pandemic. Wizards can't control this.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
“There are no weak Jews. I am descended from those who wrestle angels and kill giants. We were chosen by God. You were chosen by a pathetic little man who can't seem to grow a full mustache"
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
Mods should lock Beaver, he’s a troll in egalitarian clothes.
It's funny how often one can be accused of being a troll for expressing an unpopular - though objectively true - thought, especially without regard to its actual intent. I can assure you that no post of mine is inherently designed to rile up anyone, least of all by mere virtue of your having disagreed with its substance.
Would you like to explain your opinions on this matter via PM? It wouldn't be prudent to allow you to continue flaming me in public.
Trolling doesn’t require that you make purely antagonistic statements—
it’s entirely possible to use valid points in an antagonistic manner.
If we were to count up all of the threads that have been locked in the past year,
I wonder how many of them feature you prominently?
I’d be willing to bet it’s over 75%.
And no, I’m not going to take this to PM.
You’ve become a problem for everyone on this site.
You actively stifle engagement here,
and you’re almost certainly costing MTGS viewership
(and more importantly to some, ad revenue).
Trolling doesn’t require that you make purely antagonistic statements—
it’s entirely possible to use valid points in an antagonistic manner.
If we assume there to be an underlying element of intent driving both examples - and I certainly do - then I fail to see a distinction therein. My point stands.
If we were to count up all of the threads that have been locked in the past year,
I wonder how many of them feature you prominently?
I’d be willing to bet it’s over 75%.
And no, I’m not going to take this to PM.
You’ve become a problem for everyone on this site.
You actively stifle engagement here,
and you’re almost certainly costing MTGS viewership
(and more importantly to some, ad revenue).
I didn’t realize you were this passionate about my push for equity. The optics of placing blame on me (of all people) for thread closure, is, well, interesting to say the least. Certainly eye-opening on a deeply intrapersonal level, if nothing else.
Ironically, moving this conversation to PM might actually be more beneficial for you at this point... and considerably less antagonistic. Take a minute and see if you can’t spot the forest for the trees.
Well, the ghoulish proposition that Magic players may bear some responsibility for their own perpetually-empty wallets is never going to resonate very much around here. It never has.
You’ve become a problem for everyone on this site.
You actively stifle engagement here,
and you’re almost certainly costing MTGS viewership
(and more importantly to some, ad revenue).
But this ^^ is completely silly. There's maybe twenty people using this site anymore, offended or not. Lighten up, Francis none of this matters at all. He's only offending the people who seem to disagree with his p.o.v. Maybe you ought to stop trying shut down a perfectly reasonable conversation just because your points and arguments aren't effectively shutting it down like you expected.
Don't worry, I managed to catch it first. More constructive than anything I'd been accused of doing in this very thread, assuredly. Looks like we all get to taste the irony, eh?
Again, you're always free to elucidate me (morally as well as intellectually, apparently) via PM.
But this ^^ is completely silly. There's maybe twenty people using this site anymore, offended or not. Lighten up, Francis none of this matters at all. He's only offending the people who seem to disagree with his p.o.v. Maybe you ought to stop trying shut down a perfectly reasonable conversation just because your points and arguments aren't effectively shutting it down like you expected.
Thanks for lightening the mood a bit.
Your point about site viewership is depressingly salient,
and maybe I’m assuming too much in thinking the sanctimonious air this site has taken on is a big part of that problem.
The funny thing is, I don’t even disagree with any of the (off topic) points frequently made here;
I just dislike reading so much political bickering on the *one* site I thought was neutral enough to avoid that.
But this ^^ is completely silly. There's maybe twenty people using this site anymore, offended or not. Lighten up, Francis none of this matters at all. He's only offending the people who seem to disagree with his p.o.v. Maybe you ought to stop trying shut down a perfectly reasonable conversation just because your points and arguments aren't effectively shutting it down like you expected.
Thanks for lightening the mood a bit.
Your point about site viewership is depressingly salient,
and maybe I’m assuming too much in thinking the sanctimonious air this site has taken on is a big part of that problem.
The funny thing is, I don’t even disagree with any of the (off topic) points frequently made here;
I just dislike reading so much political bickering on the *one* site I thought was neutral enough to avoid that.
MTGS being ‘neutral’ and MTGS being a safe space for marginalized groups are mutually exclusive, at least for the time being. Which do you think serves BIPOC and LGBTQIA+ people better, coming here and seeing no political discourse whatsoever, or forum posters with welcoming and inclusive messages? Because what I see actually shutting down threads are the responses to those types of messages.
No one cares. We're here for cards. 2020 is an awful year and everyone is sick of politics everywhere. MTG or go away. Take all your values, intellect and political crusades to political forums. Or social media, like just about everyone else but me, evidently.
I'm not following you here, a fact which I'm brave enough to admit is deliciously ironic.
Perhaps I simply don't value the data you presented the same way that you clearly do, unless I'm missing a more in depth analysis from LGS* that wasn't forthcoming in your original post. The impact of 'a nice little graph' is somewhat diminished if you can't assume all other factors to be equal, especially over a span of ~15 years, and coming from a company known to be shy about their innermost workings. I'll try to be more direct in the future, but in the mean time you're free to send me proprietary information via personal message.
Insofar as Hasbro is concerned, I simply fail to discern a practical difference between spending money to improve the quality of their products (commensurate with player expectations, for whatever that's worth here), and conceding potential earnings by cutting their production schedule. If your point is about card quality, you got me - I'm still stuck on the dubious notion of 'wallet fatigue' being promoted on this forum. Perhaps it wasn't right to direct that at you.
*Did you mean LSV?
---
#BLM
#DefundThePolice
---
#BLM
#DefundThePolice
A diverse customer base has diverse needs. The company is merely responding to those needs. It's a pretty simple concept that has numerous applications elsewhere as well.
'buster
HR Analyst. Gamer. Activist | Fearless, and forthright | Aggro-control is a mindset.
Elspeth and Jhoira rock my world.
As you still rightfully support complaining about police brutality perpetrated disproportionately and without impunity against people of color (see quote), I assume you can agree that reapeating the same complains as long as the *reason* for those complains still persist, is indeed rather understandle, no? This "broken record" talking point was also famously used against Bernie Sanders because he fought for LGBTIQA+ rights, women's rights, POC rights, living wage, universal healthcare for ages, because those problems weren't sufficiently dealt with for ages.
DISCLAIMER: Not comparing, talking about a principle.
So, as long as the reasons for the complaints aren't either fixed *or* invalidated, yes, there's no reason for this record to keep playing, other than people being more annoyed by the complaints than they are by the reasons for those complaints.
Just because you disagree with a complaint, or it has not yet caused change, does not invalidate it or remove it from discussion.
If its recurring, well then its recurring. That doesnt diminish its validity.
We want to fix the house not ignore the hole in the roof.
Thank you, that's exactly what I was I trying to get across, just better put.
I feel like I’ve already explained to you at some point what a false equivalence is. There is a world of difference between something you just don’t like, and something that is fundamentally wrong.
Also, this was neatly addressed already in my followup post (#30). How many points of comparison can you draw between criteria a, b, and c?
—-
#BLM
#DefundThePolice
---
#BLM
#DefundThePolice
Such a method is *bound* to be used against you or people you agree with when continually addressing a problem that doesn't get fixed, and by using that method yourself you are validating it.
There's nothing wrong with (genuinely) discussing the validity of someone's perceived problem, or how severe it might be.
back on topic - i hate this kindof announcements of announcements. i eagerly wait for the moment that we will get anouncements of announcement announcements. /s
it would be great if instead of pr messages of no value we got actual information followed by information of current status of product shipment delays. i think everyone understands that under current circumstances delays are inevitable and woiuld apreciate wotc being more open about that.
See my linked post above, then we can continue this conversation.
Coming from an increasingly unpopular message board populated by a self-entitled, vocal minority? Not hardly.
---
#BLM
#DefundThePolice
---
#BLM
#DefundThePolice
amen it’s gone off the rails severely
it was just about Gavin confirmed the first couple of cards from commander legends will be shown At commander fest on the 22nd
Mods should lock Beaver, he’s a troll in egalitarian clothes.
If your upset about product fatigue, while valid, there are people who want more magic in general. This produce is also in the line of side sets (battle bond, conspiracy, planes chase) so there is an argument this isn't really "extra". We where gonna get something around this time, even if they got rid of the secret lairs, unsets and jumpstart.
As for shipping, not to get off topic, but the USPS isn't doing so good right now and we are in the middle of a pandemic. Wizards can't control this.
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
It's funny how often one can be accused of being a troll for expressing an unpopular - though objectively true - thought, especially without regard to its actual intent. I can assure you that no post of mine is inherently designed to rile up anyone, least of all by mere virtue of your having disagreed with its substance.
Would you like to explain your opinions on this matter via PM? It wouldn't be prudent to allow you to continue flaming me in public.
---
#BLM
#DefundThePolice
---
#BLM
#DefundThePolice
it’s entirely possible to use valid points in an antagonistic manner.
If we were to count up all of the threads that have been locked in the past year,
I wonder how many of them feature you prominently?
I’d be willing to bet it’s over 75%.
And no, I’m not going to take this to PM.
You’ve become a problem for everyone on this site.
You actively stifle engagement here,
and you’re almost certainly costing MTGS viewership
(and more importantly to some, ad revenue).
If we assume there to be an underlying element of intent driving both examples - and I certainly do - then I fail to see a distinction therein. My point stands.
I didn’t realize you were this passionate about my push for equity. The optics of placing blame on me (of all people) for thread closure, is, well, interesting to say the least. Certainly eye-opening on a deeply intrapersonal level, if nothing else.
Ironically, moving this conversation to PM might actually be more beneficial for you at this point... and considerably less antagonistic. Take a minute and see if you can’t spot the forest for the trees.
—-
#BLM
#DefundThePolice
---
#BLM
#DefundThePolice
But this ^^ is completely silly. There's maybe twenty people using this site anymore, offended or not. Lighten up, Francis none of this matters at all. He's only offending the people who seem to disagree with his p.o.v. Maybe you ought to stop trying shut down a perfectly reasonable conversation just because your points and arguments aren't effectively shutting it down like you expected.
Fully-powered 600-Card "Dream Cube" https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/dreamcube
450-Card "Artificer's Cube" https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/artificer
Cubing in Indianapolis...send me a PM!!
(Beat you to it, Mods!)
Don't worry, I managed to catch it first. More constructive than anything I'd been accused of doing in this very thread, assuredly. Looks like we all get to taste the irony, eh?
Again, you're always free to elucidate me (morally as well as intellectually, apparently) via PM.
---
#BLM
#DefundThePolice
---
#BLM
#DefundThePolice
As somebody here once commented, ‘I had thought better of you.’ SMH indeed.
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#BLM
#DefundThePolice
Thanks for lightening the mood a bit.
Your point about site viewership is depressingly salient,
and maybe I’m assuming too much in thinking the sanctimonious air this site has taken on is a big part of that problem.
The funny thing is, I don’t even disagree with any of the (off topic) points frequently made here;
I just dislike reading so much political bickering on the *one* site I thought was neutral enough to avoid that.
MTGS being ‘neutral’ and MTGS being a safe space for marginalized groups are mutually exclusive, at least for the time being. Which do you think serves BIPOC and LGBTQIA+ people better, coming here and seeing no political discourse whatsoever, or forum posters with welcoming and inclusive messages? Because what I see actually shutting down threads are the responses to those types of messages.
---
#BLM
#DefundThePolice
---
#BLM
#DefundThePolice
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Kenessos, Priest of Thassa (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||