After you did, you should have every expectation that I'd withdraw it. /shrug.
First, I'll thank you not to reduce my character to that of an animal. Second, I expounded upon my previous thoughts to a level I thought you'd find somewhat more in keeping with your, ahem, high expectations - long before my row with other posters - and you never responded. If I had a less pejorative term for 'petty' I'd use it here. And third...
Quote from Elostirion(again) »
One isnt likely to 'shut down' a braying donkey with lucid rhetoric 'points and arguments'.
If Beaver ever had a point, he's disguised and diffused it with inflammatory rhetoric and pettifogging misdirection.
The thread is going nowhere enlightening.
... is quite far afield from what I'd consider 'withdrawing your hand.' There's a word for people who transgress their own moral principles, but as it's seldom taken as anything other than antagonistic I'll spare you.
For what it's worth, just know that I'll shoot down silly stuff like the broken record thing should I see it get used against you, too, FlossedBeaver (regardless of what John Oliver might have to say about that).
Alright, I wasn't for closing this before now and maybe I helped, but tat this point the discussion isn't even about Magic. If you two want to bicker like lovers then go do it elsewhere.
No one cares. We're here for cards. 2020 is an awful year and everyone is sick of politics everywhere. MTG or go away. Take all your values, intellect and political crusades to political forums. Or social media, like just about everyone else but me, evidently.
Sorry, but no. These issues are things that are part of the very identity of people, as much as your love for Jace or Theros is a part of you. To simply demand people remove elements of their very personage because 'you' don't want to deal with them is an affront, as not everyone is "sick of politics" when those politics are attacking or debating their very right to exist as people.
The problem is people's attitudes, not their identities. The age-old adage of "If you've nothing nice to say, then say nothing" is one that would go well towards solving the problem. As in if people don't want to associate with someone, they can simply 'block' them, instead of posting antagonizing, hateful responses or baiting comments re: diversity within the MTG community or MTG lore.
Silencing the person being attacked for defending themselves is the action of an abuser. If you don't want to deal with others posts, block them. If you feel they break forum rules, inform a mod. But telling people to 'MTG or GTFO' is rude, especially when, in my experience, you carry that same attitude towards those who disagree with you re: aspects of MTG.
And honestly, I don't need a response. I know you well enough to know you will feel compelled to give one, and I'm happy to block you myself if necessary, to serve the point. Because, in your own words, "MTG or go away".
No one cares. We're here for cards. 2020 is an awful year and everyone is sick of politics everywhere. MTG or go away. Take all your values, intellect and political crusades to political forums. Or social media, like just about everyone else but me, evidently.
Nailed it. Get that stuff out of here and let's just talk about cards. Billions of other places to talk about politics, so go there.
No one cares. We're here for cards. 2020 is an awful year and everyone is sick of politics everywhere. MTG or go away. Take all your values, intellect and political crusades to political forums. Or social media, like just about everyone else but me, evidently.
After you did, you should have every expectation that I'd withdraw it. /shrug.
First, I'll thank you not to reduce my character to that of an animal. Second, I expounded upon my previous thoughts to a level I thought you'd find somewhat more in keeping with your, ahem, high expectations - long before my row with other posters - and you never responded. If I had a less pejorative term for 'petty' I'd use it here. And third...
Quote from Elostirion(again) »
One isnt likely to 'shut down' a braying donkey with lucid rhetoric 'points and arguments'.
If Beaver ever had a point, he's disguised and diffused it with inflammatory rhetoric and pettifogging misdirection.
The thread is going nowhere enlightening.
... is quite far afield from what I'd consider 'withdrawing your hand.' There's a word for people who transgress their own moral principles, but as it's seldom taken as anything other than antagonistic I'll spare you.
---
#BLM
#DefundThePolice
Well... if the hoof fits...
You do realize you are continuing to do precisely what I stated you were doing in the post that I deleted within 30 seconds after I judged that what I said was more impolite than called for.
Your reposting of deleted material shows your deficiencies more than it does mine.
So have another animal comparison. This is the end of my slinging poo with this particular pig. For as most remember the old adage, the result is everyone gets covered in poo, but the pig is the only one enjoying it.
No one cares. We're here for cards. 2020 is an awful year and everyone is sick of politics everywhere. MTG or go away. Take all your values, intellect and political crusades to political forums. Or social media, like just about everyone else but me, evidently.
That's not really a big ask, considering there's not a lot of intellect here to begin with.
EDIT: Someone mentioned this is becoming an increasingly unpopular site. It's pretty much going the route of MTGNews where it's full of a bunch of ****wits incapable of rational thought. The funny thing is that there are a lot of leftists sprouting Antifa narratives but have no problem invoking their own strict rules and regulations themselves. Which is the tit, which is the tat?
The joys of being a Blue Grit is that I get to piss off everyone at the same time. (Don't know what a Blue Grit is? Get off your lazy know-it-all asses and research it )
No one cares. We're here for cards. 2020 is an awful year and everyone is sick of politics everywhere. MTG or go away. Take all your values, intellect and political crusades to political forums. Or social media, like just about everyone else but me, evidently.
That's not really a big ask, considering there's not a lot of intellect here to begin with.
EDIT: Someone mentioned this is becoming an increasingly unpopular site. It's pretty much going the route of MTGNews where it's full of a bunch of ****wits incapable of rational thought. The funny thing is that there are a lot of leftists sprouting Antifa narratives but have no problem invoking their own strict rules and regulations themselves. Which is the tit, which is the tat?
The joys of being a Blue Grit is that I get to piss off everyone at the same time. (Don't know what a Blue Grit is? Get off your lazy know-it-all asses and research it )
'buster
Did you know there's a word for people who aren't 'Antifa'? Europe was full of them in the early 1940s.
No one cares. We're here for cards. 2020 is an awful year and everyone is sick of politics everywhere. MTG or go away. Take all your values, intellect and political crusades to political forums. Or social media, like just about everyone else but me, evidently.
That's not really a big ask, considering there's not a lot of intellect here to begin with.
'buster
Allow me to put it this way. Fools have the loudest intellect.
Sure! Let me know when you see Hasbro capitulate to the whims of some random forum-goers whining about wallet fatigue, will you?
Above quotes posted next to each other to give context to my interpretation of this discussion. Elostirion, it appears you made a somewhat sarcastic remark which you intended to be light in tone and FlossedBeaver's response in turn escalated the discussion into hostile territory. My impression however is that FlossedBeaver's intentions were likewise light in tone, resulting his his expressed confusion in your exchanges. This is a situation which I think can be mediated.
Trolling doesn’t require that you make purely antagonistic statements—
it’s entirely possible to use valid points in an antagonistic manner.
If we were to count up all of the threads that have been locked in the past year,
I wonder how many of them feature you prominently?
I’d be willing to bet it’s over 75%.
And no, I’m not going to take this to PM.
You’ve become a problem for everyone on this site.
You actively stifle engagement here,
and you’re almost certainly costing MTGS viewership
(and more importantly to some, ad revenue).
I think both Elostirion and FlossedBeaver are good posters on this forum who have consistently made valuable contributions. I appreciate both of them. I do think that FlossedBeaver might be a tad aggressive at times (though I am probably much worse, for what it's worth), but a lot of the threads you mention being locked got started because people on the political right posted off topic and heinous comments. We've been directed by the mods to just ignore these posts and not talk about politics at all, then in different instances been told it's okay so long as it stays respectful, which is of course impossible if one side's view is inherently disrespectful. If the policy is to ignore these types of posts, then in practice the effect is that people make these remarks, they're eventually deleted or snipped, and the other side's point of view is not expressed. In other words, the policy is actually not neutral and unbiased; right-wing narratives will continue to be expressed and the counter points will not. Locking threads does not actually solve the problem so it continually recurs, leading to an overall forum community annoyed with political posts. But there's another reason why this is the approach used. Right-wing players are a sizeable audience on this site. Locking threads does not threaten their continued ad-viewership, but keeping threads open might.
No one cares. We're here for cards. 2020 is an awful year and everyone is sick of politics everywhere. MTG or go away. Take all your values, intellect and political crusades to political forums. Or social media, like just about everyone else but me, evidently.
Well, no one cares about your feelings about Theros, either. That's never stopped you from expressing them.
Well, no one cares about your feelings about Theros, either. That's never stopped you from expressing them.
Oh yes, my opinions on Theros are inappropriate on a Magic the Gathering forum.
I didn't say they were inappropriate, I said no one cares about them. They are only of real interest to you. You could improve your content by reflecting more carefully about the world and maybe even intellectually grasping political theory among other things. This would help you to express your feelings with more substance.
Notice how in this thread FlossedBeaver wasn't even discussing politics and people brought it up, in order to try to demonstrate his hypocrisy and then just to complain about him. The first is the logical fallacy ad hominem tu quoque, the second is irrelevant.
Sorry, not adding anything to the conversation. But I do concur w/ Creedmor. The politics of 2020 should be discussed somewhere else. Please, can we concentrate on what's really important: MAGIC CARDS... I see two outcomes: we lighten up and talk about what Gavin will be sharing this week in this thread... orrrrr, lock this thread and start afresh when the previews come.
C'mon, we know better than to let the Phyrexians muddle our heads w/ their Glistening Oil.
Well back on the topic of wallet fatigue on this product, I'm inclined to agree that people are free to elect not to buy products that don't interest them. Of course, I think there's room for some nuance about the phenomenon of wallet fatigue that's worth exploring. Seeing an increased volume of product that doesn't interest you conditions you to lose interest in the brand. The products which succeed in their appeal have to overcome this tendency, otherwise wallet fatigue is experienced. This is especially true if a number of products do partially appeal, but their relative mediocrity and overabundance interferes with evaluating priority for purchase.
Ironically, Elostirion's suggestion of increasing staffing would most likely usher in an era of the game flourishing. But it would be an investment to do so.
Sorry, not adding anything to the conversation. But I do concur w/ Creedmor. The politics of 2020 should be discussed somewhere else. Please, can we concentrate on what's really important: MAGIC CARDS... I see two outcomes: we lighten up and talk about what Gavin will be sharing this week in this thread... orrrrr, lock this thread and start afresh when the previews come.
C'mon, we know better than to let the Phyrexians muddle our heads w/ their Glistening Oil.
The principles of equity and freedom, or lack thereof for certain people, have been boiling over since the Founding Fathers failed to exclude slavery from the Constitution nigh on two-and-a-half centuries ago. What you're seeing right now isn't 'the politics of 2020' so much as the very livelihoods of our fellow human beings made manifest; what you're talking about are people, and they will always be more important than pretty cardboard.
Well, no one cares about your feelings about Theros, either. That's never stopped you from expressing them.
Oh yes, my opinions on Theros are inappropriate on a Magic the Gathering forum.
I didn't say they were inappropriate, I said no one cares about them. They are only of real interest to you. You could improve your content by reflecting more carefully about the world and maybe even intellectually grasping political theory among other things. This would help you to express your feelings with more substance.
Notice how in this thread FlossedBeaver wasn't even discussing politics and people brought it up, in order to try to demonstrate his hypocrisy and then just to complain about him. The first is the logical fallacy ad hominem tu quoque, the second is irrelevant.
It's a forum for discussing MTG. Your argument is inherently flawed to call out my on-topic discussions of Theros, while quoting my post criticizing off topic content. You shouldn't need that explained.
Well, no one cares about your feelings about Theros, either. That's never stopped you from expressing them.
Oh yes, my opinions on Theros are inappropriate on a Magic the Gathering forum.
I didn't say they were inappropriate, I said no one cares about them. They are only of real interest to you. You could improve your content by reflecting more carefully about the world and maybe even intellectually grasping political theory among other things. This would help you to express your feelings with more substance.
Notice how in this thread FlossedBeaver wasn't even discussing politics and people brought it up, in order to try to demonstrate his hypocrisy and then just to complain about him. The first is the logical fallacy ad hominem tu quoque, the second is irrelevant.
It's a forum for discussing MTG. Your argument is inherently flawed to call out my on-topic discussions of Theros, while quoting my post criticizing off topic content. You shouldn't need that explained.
It's not flawed, because I am generally in support of open and free discussion rather than rigid adherence to being on topic. Your posts may be on topic, but they are of such low quality as to be regarded as nothing more than spam. And spam is actually against the forum rules.
Well, no one cares about your feelings about Theros, either. That's never stopped you from expressing them.
Oh yes, my opinions on Theros are inappropriate on a Magic the Gathering forum.
I didn't say they were inappropriate, I said no one cares about them. They are only of real interest to you. You could improve your content by reflecting more carefully about the world and maybe even intellectually grasping political theory among other things. This would help you to express your feelings with more substance.
Notice how in this thread FlossedBeaver wasn't even discussing politics and people brought it up, in order to try to demonstrate his hypocrisy and then just to complain about him. The first is the logical fallacy ad hominem tu quoque, the second is irrelevant.
It's a forum for discussing MTG. Your argument is inherently flawed to call out my on-topic discussions of Theros, while quoting my post criticizing off topic content. You shouldn't need that explained.
It's not flawed, because I am generally in support of open and free discussion rather than rigid adherence to being on topic. Your posts may be on topic, but they are of such low quality as to be regarded as nothing more than spam. And spam is actually against the forum rules.
I'm going to guess, and say that they might try making commanders that add a single color to other commanders. My fear, is that they will do it with out balancing out what adding another color offers, if such a concept even can.
Private Mod Note
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I didnt expect you to bite my hand.
After you did, you should have every expectation that I'd withdraw it. /shrug.
First, I'll thank you not to reduce my character to that of an animal. Second, I expounded upon my previous thoughts to a level I thought you'd find somewhat more in keeping with your, ahem, high expectations - long before my row with other posters - and you never responded. If I had a less pejorative term for 'petty' I'd use it here. And third...
... is quite far afield from what I'd consider 'withdrawing your hand.' There's a word for people who transgress their own moral principles, but as it's seldom taken as anything other than antagonistic I'll spare you.
---
#BLM
#DefundThePolice
---
#BLM
#DefundThePolice
Sorry, but no. These issues are things that are part of the very identity of people, as much as your love for Jace or Theros is a part of you. To simply demand people remove elements of their very personage because 'you' don't want to deal with them is an affront, as not everyone is "sick of politics" when those politics are attacking or debating their very right to exist as people.
The problem is people's attitudes, not their identities. The age-old adage of "If you've nothing nice to say, then say nothing" is one that would go well towards solving the problem. As in if people don't want to associate with someone, they can simply 'block' them, instead of posting antagonizing, hateful responses or baiting comments re: diversity within the MTG community or MTG lore.
Silencing the person being attacked for defending themselves is the action of an abuser. If you don't want to deal with others posts, block them. If you feel they break forum rules, inform a mod. But telling people to 'MTG or GTFO' is rude, especially when, in my experience, you carry that same attitude towards those who disagree with you re: aspects of MTG.
And honestly, I don't need a response. I know you well enough to know you will feel compelled to give one, and I'm happy to block you myself if necessary, to serve the point. Because, in your own words, "MTG or go away".
This user has language problems due to their mental health problems and sometimes may not use the best wording to explain their thoughts.
Draft the "'What Is This Nonsense?'" casual cube.
Nailed it. Get that stuff out of here and let's just talk about cards. Billions of other places to talk about politics, so go there.
What are you even doing here then?
Well... if the hoof fits...
You do realize you are continuing to do precisely what I stated you were doing in the post that I deleted within 30 seconds after I judged that what I said was more impolite than called for.
Your reposting of deleted material shows your deficiencies more than it does mine.
So have another animal comparison. This is the end of my slinging poo with this particular pig. For as most remember the old adage, the result is everyone gets covered in poo, but the pig is the only one enjoying it.
I think you are very confused about which one of us started 'slinging poo.' If I have any deficiencies, at least self-awareness isn't among them.
---
#BLM
#DefundThePolice
---
#BLM
#DefundThePolice
That's not really a big ask, considering there's not a lot of intellect here to begin with.
EDIT: Someone mentioned this is becoming an increasingly unpopular site. It's pretty much going the route of MTGNews where it's full of a bunch of ****wits incapable of rational thought. The funny thing is that there are a lot of leftists sprouting Antifa narratives but have no problem invoking their own strict rules and regulations themselves. Which is the tit, which is the tat?
The joys of being a Blue Grit is that I get to piss off everyone at the same time. (Don't know what a Blue Grit is? Get off your lazy know-it-all asses and research it )
'buster
HR Analyst. Gamer. Activist | Fearless, and forthright | Aggro-control is a mindset.
Elspeth and Jhoira rock my world.
Dunes of Zairo
SHANDALAR
Innistrad - The Darkest Night
~THE RAVNICAN CONSORTIUM~
A Community Set
Commander: Allies & Adversaries
Did you know there's a word for people who aren't 'Antifa'? Europe was full of them in the early 1940s.
---
#BLM
#DefundThePolice
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Kenessos, Priest of Thassa (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||
---
#BLM
#DefundThePolice
Above quotes posted next to each other to give context to my interpretation of this discussion. Elostirion, it appears you made a somewhat sarcastic remark which you intended to be light in tone and FlossedBeaver's response in turn escalated the discussion into hostile territory. My impression however is that FlossedBeaver's intentions were likewise light in tone, resulting his his expressed confusion in your exchanges. This is a situation which I think can be mediated.
I think both Elostirion and FlossedBeaver are good posters on this forum who have consistently made valuable contributions. I appreciate both of them. I do think that FlossedBeaver might be a tad aggressive at times (though I am probably much worse, for what it's worth), but a lot of the threads you mention being locked got started because people on the political right posted off topic and heinous comments. We've been directed by the mods to just ignore these posts and not talk about politics at all, then in different instances been told it's okay so long as it stays respectful, which is of course impossible if one side's view is inherently disrespectful. If the policy is to ignore these types of posts, then in practice the effect is that people make these remarks, they're eventually deleted or snipped, and the other side's point of view is not expressed. In other words, the policy is actually not neutral and unbiased; right-wing narratives will continue to be expressed and the counter points will not. Locking threads does not actually solve the problem so it continually recurs, leading to an overall forum community annoyed with political posts. But there's another reason why this is the approach used. Right-wing players are a sizeable audience on this site. Locking threads does not threaten their continued ad-viewership, but keeping threads open might.
Well, no one cares about your feelings about Theros, either. That's never stopped you from expressing them.
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Kenessos, Priest of Thassa (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||
I didn't say they were inappropriate, I said no one cares about them. They are only of real interest to you. You could improve your content by reflecting more carefully about the world and maybe even intellectually grasping political theory among other things. This would help you to express your feelings with more substance.
Notice how in this thread FlossedBeaver wasn't even discussing politics and people brought it up, in order to try to demonstrate his hypocrisy and then just to complain about him. The first is the logical fallacy ad hominem tu quoque, the second is irrelevant.
C'mon, we know better than to let the Phyrexians muddle our heads w/ their Glistening Oil.
Ironically, Elostirion's suggestion of increasing staffing would most likely usher in an era of the game flourishing. But it would be an investment to do so.
The principles of equity and freedom, or lack thereof for certain people, have been boiling over since the Founding Fathers failed to exclude slavery from the Constitution nigh on two-and-a-half centuries ago. What you're seeing right now isn't 'the politics of 2020' so much as the very livelihoods of our fellow human beings made manifest; what you're talking about are people, and they will always be more important than pretty cardboard.
---
#BLM
#DefundThePolice
---
#BLM
#DefundThePolice
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Kenessos, Priest of Thassa (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||
It's not flawed, because I am generally in support of open and free discussion rather than rigid adherence to being on topic. Your posts may be on topic, but they are of such low quality as to be regarded as nothing more than spam. And spam is actually against the forum rules.
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Kenessos, Priest of Thassa (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||
Case in point.
I've offered you some constructive criticism, and I stand by it. Take it or leave it as you wish.