Talk about wallet fatigue, product fatigue, and the never-ending hype train all you want.
If Gavin previews a fetch reprint, I’ll lead the parade through the streets.
Even if the fetchlands were the only things in the common slot, people here would still complain about how much of a rip-off the product is. These forums are a paradoxical mix of broke Commander players and friends of mtgfinance. There is no winning.
sadly that is correct
no matter how good reprints/cards and the set is this is exactly what will happen heck I even know they were complaining it was too weak before dominaria revist but you can't win now they complaining they are too powerful
also, I should point out and apologizes and no offense to some but I'm certain that some of the users complaining is intentional just for attention or/and to rile up people
Talk about wallet fatigue, product fatigue, and the never-ending hype train all you want.
If Gavin previews a fetch reprint, I’ll lead the parade through the streets.
Even if the fetchlands were the only things in the common slot, people here would still complain about how much of a rip-off the product is. These forums are a paradoxical mix of broke Commander players and friends of mtgfinance. There is no winning.
sadly that is correct
no matter how good reprints/cards and the set is this is exactly what will happen heck I even know they were complaining it was too weak before dominaria revist but you can't win now they complaining they are too powerful
also, I should point out and apologizes and no offense to some but I'm certain that some of the users complaining is intentional just for attention or/and to rile up people
you guys really do try to go a long way toward discrediting and ignoring any dissent when it comes to products.
its okay to be critical of these products, in fact a lot of the time its the only thing we really can do about them.
there have been plenty of sets that felt balanced. that felt like we were getting interesting, or powerful cards, in a decent mix with less interesting and less powerful cards. those sets felt fair and they felt like they were worth our time as well as our money. its easy to take complaints over a pushed card, or complaints over extremely weak cards and label it as the fault of the entire set. what's actually being criticized is the design, and in most case it isn't the person criticizing the design of a card that's criticizing the entire set but the people who see that complaint and throw up their hands saying no one will ever be happy. totally ignoring what people are actually unhappy about to fit their own narrative.
this set isn't even out yet. there are no spoilers yet. a few of you have already created this narrative that people are unhappy with the entire set for power reasons and reprints.
you've ignored what the complaint really is.
it has nothing to do with the power or lack of power with the set. it has nothing to do with the reprints here. we have no idea what those are. no one has said anything about those aspects of the set other than the few of you who are griping that people won't ever be happy.
the complaints levied so far are solely oriented around wallet fatigue and product bombardment. that's it. that's the complaint people have right now.
that's a legitimate concern. those voices should not be silenced by putting their criticisms under something they aren't even complaining about that you've instead manufactured yourself in this false narrative.
step back and think about the community you're creating because those kinds of attitudes go along way toward making actual discussion meaningless for many, and that in turn does make people walk away.
Talk about wallet fatigue, product fatigue, and the never-ending hype train all you want.
If Gavin previews a fetch reprint, I’ll lead the parade through the streets.
Even if the fetchlands were the only things in the common slot, people here would still complain about how much of a rip-off the product is. These forums are a paradoxical mix of broke Commander players and friends of mtgfinance. There is no winning.
sadly that is correct
no matter how good reprints/cards and the set is this is exactly what will happen heck I even know they were complaining it was too weak before dominaria revist but you can't win now they complaining they are too powerful
also, I should point out and apologizes and no offense to some but I'm certain that some of the users complaining is intentional just for attention or/and to rile up people
you guys really do try to go a long way toward discrediting and ignoring any dissent when it comes to products.
its okay to be critical of these products, in fact a lot of the time its the only thing we really can do about them.
there have been plenty of sets that felt balanced. that felt like we were getting interesting, or powerful cards, in a decent mix with less interesting and less powerful cards. those sets felt fair and they felt like they were worth our time as well as our money. its easy to take complaints over a pushed card, or complaints over extremely weak cards and label it as the fault of the entire set. what's actually being criticized is the design, and in most case it isn't the person criticizing the design of a card that's criticizing the entire set but the people who see that complaint and throw up their hands saying no one will ever be happy. totally ignoring what people are actually unhappy about to fit their own narrative.
this set isn't even out yet. there are no spoilers yet. a few of you have already created this narrative that people are unhappy with the entire set for power reasons and reprints.
you've ignored what the complaint really is.
it has nothing to do with the power or lack of power with the set. it has nothing to do with the reprints here. we have no idea what those are. no one has said anything about those aspects of the set other than the few of you who are griping that people won't ever be happy.
the complaints levied so far are solely oriented around wallet fatigue and product bombardment. that's it. that's the complaint people have right now.
that's a legitimate concern. those voices should not be silenced by putting their criticisms under something they aren't even complaining about that you've instead manufactured yourself in this false narrative.
step back and think about the community you're creating because those kinds of attitudes go along way toward making actual discussion meaningless for many, and that in turn does make people walk away.
Criticism becomes pretty easy to ignore when it eventually turns from constructive to repetitive. It serves no one's best interest to to be a broken record on the subject, especially if it's coming from the same people every time. Trust me, we get it already.
Talk about wallet fatigue, product fatigue, and the never-ending hype train all you want.
If Gavin previews a fetch reprint, I’ll lead the parade through the streets.
Even if the fetchlands were the only things in the common slot, people here would still complain about how much of a rip-off the product is. These forums are a paradoxical mix of broke Commander players and friends of mtgfinance. There is no winning.
sadly that is correct
no matter how good reprints/cards and the set is this is exactly what will happen heck I even know they were complaining it was too weak before dominaria revist but you can't win now they complaining they are too powerful
also, I should point out and apologizes and no offense to some but I'm certain that some of the users complaining is intentional just for attention or/and to rile up people
you guys really do try to go a long way toward discrediting and ignoring any dissent when it comes to products.
its okay to be critical of these products, in fact a lot of the time its the only thing we really can do about them.
there have been plenty of sets that felt balanced. that felt like we were getting interesting, or powerful cards, in a decent mix with less interesting and less powerful cards. those sets felt fair and they felt like they were worth our time as well as our money. its easy to take complaints over a pushed card, or complaints over extremely weak cards and label it as the fault of the entire set. what's actually being criticized is the design, and in most case it isn't the person criticizing the design of a card that's criticizing the entire set but the people who see that complaint and throw up their hands saying no one will ever be happy. totally ignoring what people are actually unhappy about to fit their own narrative.
this set isn't even out yet. there are no spoilers yet. a few of you have already created this narrative that people are unhappy with the entire set for power reasons and reprints.
you've ignored what the complaint really is.
it has nothing to do with the power or lack of power with the set. it has nothing to do with the reprints here. we have no idea what those are. no one has said anything about those aspects of the set other than the few of you who are griping that people won't ever be happy.
the complaints levied so far are solely oriented around wallet fatigue and product bombardment. that's it. that's the complaint people have right now.
that's a legitimate concern. those voices should not be silenced by putting their criticisms under something they aren't even complaining about that you've instead manufactured yourself in this false narrative.
step back and think about the community you're creating because those kinds of attitudes go along way toward making actual discussion meaningless for many, and that in turn does make people walk away.
Criticism becomes pretty easy to ignore when it eventually turns from constructive to repetitive. It serves no one's best interest to to be a broken record on the subject, especially if it's coming from the same people every time. Trust me, we get it already.
---
#BLM
#DefundThePolice
So... if the object of the complaints makes the same mistakes repeatedly, and the complainers complain about it repeatedly, so that "you get it already", then that complaint becomes ignorable and invalid?
Just wanted to make sure I followed that illogic train...
So... if the object of the complaints makes the same mistakes repeatedly, and the complainers complain about it repeatedly, so that "you get it already", then that complaint becomes ignorable and invalid?
Just wanted to make sure I followed that illogic train...
As John Oliver recently pointed out (not that it's a novel concept), it's possible to be both of two things at once. Something can be ignorable and still have validity, especially if a) nothing new is being brought to the table, b) no solutions are being offered, and c) the object of the complaint is arguably subjective in nature. Seems perfectly logical to me.
So... if the object of the complaints makes the same mistakes repeatedly, and the complainers complain about it repeatedly, so that "you get it already", then that complaint becomes ignorable and invalid?
Just wanted to make sure I followed that illogic train...
As John Oliver recently pointed out (not that it's a novel concept), it's possible to be both of two things at once. Something can be ignorable and still have validity, especially if a) nothing new is being brought to the table, b) no solutions are being offered, and c) the object of the complaint is arguably subjective in nature. Seems perfectly logical to me.
---
#BLM
#DefundThePolice
Agree with point C.
Disagree with point A, but I'm not going to bother citing sources, so I'll concede arguendo there.
Point B is easily deniable. The proposed solution by the plurality of complainers is to slow down the production of products at least to the pace at which they can effectively balance/test/polish them. I don't think _anyone_ would disagree that they are publishing faster than they can polish.
So... if the object of the complaints makes the same mistakes repeatedly, and the complainers complain about it repeatedly, so that "you get it already", then that complaint becomes ignorable and invalid?
Just wanted to make sure I followed that illogic train...
As John Oliver recently pointed out (not that it's a novel concept), it's possible to be both of two things at once. Something can be ignorable and still have validity, especially if a) nothing new is being brought to the table, b) no solutions are being offered, and c) the object of the complaint is arguably subjective in nature. Seems perfectly logical to me.
---
#BLM
#DefundThePolice
Agree with point C.
Disagree with point A, but I'm not going to bother citing sources, so I'll concede arguendo there.
Point B is easily deniable. The proposed solution by the plurality of complainers is to slow down the production of products at least to the pace at which they can effectively balance/test/polish them. I don't think _anyone_ would disagree that they are publishing faster than they can polish.
Is the relationship between product scheduling and product quality causal, or correlational? If we were to offer a different type of solution, one that didn’t hinge on ‘wallet fatigue’ (the most common, and to my mind, unreasonable complaint), might it be possible to still release this many products and also have balance / polish?
So... if the object of the complaints makes the same mistakes repeatedly, and the complainers complain about it repeatedly, so that "you get it already", then that complaint becomes ignorable and invalid?
Just wanted to make sure I followed that illogic train...
As John Oliver recently pointed out (not that it's a novel concept), it's possible to be both of two things at once. Something can be ignorable and still have validity, especially if a) nothing new is being brought to the table, b) no solutions are being offered, and c) the object of the complaint is arguably subjective in nature. Seems perfectly logical to me.
---
#BLM
#DefundThePolice
Agree with point C.
Disagree with point A, but I'm not going to bother citing sources, so I'll concede arguendo there.
Point B is easily deniable. The proposed solution by the plurality of complainers is to slow down the production of products at least to the pace at which they can effectively balance/test/polish them. I don't think _anyone_ would disagree that they are publishing faster than they can polish.
Is the relationship between product scheduling and product quality causal, or correlational? If we were to offer a different type of solution, one that didn’t hinge on ‘wallet fatigue’ (the most common, and to my mind, unreasonable complaint), might it be possible to still release this many products and also have balance / polish?
—-
#BLM
#DefundThePolice
Causality is difficult to demonstrate without a double-blind experiment. There is sufficient theoretical basis for presumed implied causality however. Even if it were only correlation, that implies another cause for both dependencies, i.e. something to fix.
2 cards banned in Standard between 2006 and 20016. 21 cards banned in Standard 2017 to 2020. And we're not done with 2020. That's an increase of 4100% I have a nice little graphic for that, but I grabbed it from a LGS's facebook so linkying it would be inappropriate.
Sure, it would be possible to release sets faster and still have polish. The business answer to that is easy: throw more money at the problem. Larger staff, more training, better version control procedures, etc. Let me know when you see Hasbro double the size of the WotC team, wont you?
So... if the object of the complaints makes the same mistakes repeatedly, and the complainers complain about it repeatedly, so that "you get it already", then that complaint becomes ignorable and invalid?
Just wanted to make sure I followed that illogic train...
As John Oliver recently pointed out (not that it's a novel concept), it's possible to be both of two things at once. Something can be ignorable and still have validity, especially if a) nothing new is being brought to the table, b) no solutions are being offered, and c) the object of the complaint is arguably subjective in nature. Seems perfectly logical to me.
---
#BLM
#DefundThePolice
Agree with point C.
Disagree with point A, but I'm not going to bother citing sources, so I'll concede arguendo there.
Point B is easily deniable. The proposed solution by the plurality of complainers is to slow down the production of products at least to the pace at which they can effectively balance/test/polish them. I don't think _anyone_ would disagree that they are publishing faster than they can polish.
Is the relationship between product scheduling and product quality causal, or correlational? If we were to offer a different type of solution, one that didn’t hinge on ‘wallet fatigue’ (the most common, and to my mind, unreasonable complaint), might it be possible to still release this many products and also have balance / polish?
—-
#BLM
#DefundThePolice
Causality is difficult to demonstrate without a double-blind experiment. There is sufficient theoretical basis for presumed implied causality however. Even if it were only correlation, that implies another cause for both dependencies, i.e. something to fix.
2 cards banned in Standard between 2006 and 20016. 21 cards banned in Standard 2017 to 2020. And we're not done with 2020. That's an increase of 4100% I have a nice little graphic for that, but I grabbed it from a LGS's facebook so linkying it would be inappropriate.
I’m sure evolving ban / restriction philosophies have nothing to do with any of that. Is there another metric for “too many sets = bad” apart from rate of card suspension?
Sure, it would be possible to release sets faster and still have polish. The business answer to that is easy: throw more money at the problem. Larger staff, more training, better version control procedures, etc. Let me know when you see Hasbro double the size of the WotC team, wont you?
Sure! Let me know when you see Hasbro capitulate to the whims of some random forum-goers whining about wallet fatigue, will you?
Talk about wallet fatigue, product fatigue, and the never-ending hype train all you want.
If Gavin previews a fetch reprint, I’ll lead the parade through the streets.
Even if the fetchlands were the only things in the common slot, people here would still complain about how much of a rip-off the product is. These forums are a paradoxical mix of broke Commander players and friends of mtgfinance. There is no winning.
While the contrary viewpoints on the game may make us seem like a negative community (especially as negativity is loud), I personally choose to interpret the multitude of voices within our community in a positive light.
If fetches are reprinted in a pack that approaches normal prices, I will be happy. I expect that a lot of newer and less enfranchised players (and people looking to enter modern) will be happy. That is good.
If fetches are printed as special-art boxtoppers for Zendikar that don't meaningfully move prices, one of my best friends will be happy as he can make his commander decks beautiful. I'm sure that quite a few enfranchised would feel similarly and the people who invested in fetches a while ago can continue on their silent conga line of value uninterrupted. That is also good.
No matter what wizards does, someone is going to be happy. If it isn't me this time around, that is okay. I may not vote with my wallet for more things that don't make me happy but I can still extend my happy thoughts and congratulations to the people who lucked out this time.
As in the game of magic, someone is almost always bound to win.
As John Oliver recently pointed out (not that it's a novel concept), it's possible to be both of two things at once. Something can be ignorable and still have validity, especially if a) nothing new is being brought to the table, b) no solutions are being offered, and c) the object of the complaint is arguably subjective in nature. Seems perfectly logical to me.
---
#BLM
#DefundThePolice
Agree with point C.
Disagree with point A, but I'm not going to bother citing sources, so I'll concede arguendo there.
Point B is easily deniable. The proposed solution by the plurality of complainers is to slow down the production of products at least to the pace at which they can effectively balance/test/polish them. I don't think _anyone_ would disagree that they are publishing faster than they can polish.
Is the relationship between product scheduling and product quality causal, or correlational? If we were to offer a different type of solution, one that didn’t hinge on ‘wallet fatigue’ (the most common, and to my mind, unreasonable complaint), might it be possible to still release this many products and also have balance / polish?
—-
#BLM
#DefundThePolice
Causality is difficult to demonstrate without a double-blind experiment. There is sufficient theoretical basis for presumed implied causality however. Even if it were only correlation, that implies another cause for both dependencies, i.e. something to fix.
2 cards banned in Standard between 2006 and 20016. 21 cards banned in Standard 2017 to 2020. And we're not done with 2020. That's an increase of 4100% I have a nice little graphic for that, but I grabbed it from a LGS's facebook so linkying it would be inappropriate.
I’m sure evolving ban / restriction philosophies have nothing to do with any of that. Is there another metric for “too many sets = bad” apart from rate of card suspension?
Sure, it would be possible to release sets faster and still have polish. The business answer to that is easy: throw more money at the problem. Larger staff, more training, better version control procedures, etc. Let me know when you see Hasbro double the size of the WotC team, wont you?
Sure! Let me know when you see Hasbro capitulate to the whims of some random forum-goers whining about wallet fatigue, will you?
—-
#BLM
#DefundThePolice
Here I thought we were having fun and you go with this stuff? SMH.
Talk about wallet fatigue, product fatigue, and the never-ending hype train all you want.
If Gavin previews a fetch reprint, I’ll lead the parade through the streets.
Even if the fetchlands were the only things in the common slot, people here would still complain about how much of a rip-off the product is. These forums are a paradoxical mix of broke Commander players and friends of mtgfinance. There is no winning.
sadly that is correct
no matter how good reprints/cards and the set is this is exactly what will happen heck I even know they were complaining it was too weak before dominaria revist but you can't win now they complaining they are too powerful
also, I should point out and apologizes and no offense to some but I'm certain that some of the users complaining is intentional just for attention or/and to rile up people
you guys really do try to go a long way toward discrediting and ignoring any dissent when it comes to products.
its okay to be critical of these products, in fact a lot of the time its the only thing we really can do about them.
there have been plenty of sets that felt balanced. that felt like we were getting interesting, or powerful cards, in a decent mix with less interesting and less powerful cards. those sets felt fair and they felt like they were worth our time as well as our money. its easy to take complaints over a pushed card, or complaints over extremely weak cards and label it as the fault of the entire set. what's actually being criticized is the design, and in most case it isn't the person criticizing the design of a card that's criticizing the entire set but the people who see that complaint and throw up their hands saying no one will ever be happy. totally ignoring what people are actually unhappy about to fit their own narrative.
this set isn't even out yet. there are no spoilers yet. a few of you have already created this narrative that people are unhappy with the entire set for power reasons and reprints.
you've ignored what the complaint really is.
it has nothing to do with the power or lack of power with the set. it has nothing to do with the reprints here. we have no idea what those are. no one has said anything about those aspects of the set other than the few of you who are griping that people won't ever be happy.
the complaints levied so far are solely oriented around wallet fatigue and product bombardment. that's it. that's the complaint people have right now.
that's a legitimate concern. those voices should not be silenced by putting their criticisms under something they aren't even complaining about that you've instead manufactured yourself in this false narrative.
step back and think about the community you're creating because those kinds of attitudes go along way toward making actual discussion meaningless for many, and that in turn does make people walk away.
Ok... but... hear me out- You don't HAVE to buy everything. This year, yeah, there's been a lot of product, but SO MANY reprints. Maybe I suck at EDH, but my best decks haven't changed in a WHILE - I don't feel the need to run out and get every new card that COULD fit in there. Legacy has stayed relatively similar, minus the normal shakeups from expansions, and the rest of the formats don't have any added stress due to products like Jumpstart, because new cards aren't legal there.
So yeah, it's a lot of stuff. And while most of us are in this hobby because we are collectors, I think the hobby itself has gotten so big, it's time to stop trying to get 4 of every card ever printed as a default- I gave up buying new stuff that I don't need just to have it. My collection has thanked me and gotten a lot sexier, now that I can buy a $100 reserve list card instead of a box of Jumpstart- I just needed to reframe how I collect.
If you're like me and have been playing for a while it's easy to remember the days of Big-Small-Small-Core sets in one year which was a LOT easier to "collect em all!" than it is nowadays. (I remember when Coldsnap was an "extra set" in the year- it was AWESOME having an extra thing to buy in between expansions)
You can't blame Wizards and Hasbro for making products to sell- that's literally what they're here to do. It's almost like saying "Damn this restaurant for having so many tasty things on their menu! Making me fat because I have to order my 7 favorite meals! How am I to sustain this!?!?"
Take a deep breath guys, buy more singles, have more fun with boosters, and just enjoy the game- I'm just thankful they haven't ruined it (yet).
Criticism becomes pretty easy to ignore when it eventually turns from constructive to repetitive. It serves no one's best interest to to be a broken record on the subject, especially if it's coming from the same people every time. Trust me, we get it already.
Perhaps the reason it's becoming repetitive is because the same issues keep repeating themselves.
I am shocked that Double Masters barely dented most prices of major cards. I imagine the price of the packs/boxes is at play. More went after singles, which derived the market of enough competition for singles prices, so little was done to lower the cost of the desirable cards.
I am shocked that Double Masters barely dented most prices of major cards. I imagine the price of the packs/boxes is at play. More went after singles, which derived the market of enough competition for singles prices, so little was done to lower the cost of the desirable cards.
Say what? Most prices are down 30-50% from a couple of months ago.
I got foils of Skithiryx, the Blight Dragon and The Scarab God for less than nonfoils cost back then.
Criticism becomes pretty easy to ignore when it eventually turns from constructive to repetitive. It serves no one's best interest to to be a broken record on the subject, especially if it's coming from the same people every time. Trust me, we get it already.
Perhaps the reason it's becoming repetitive is because the same issues keep repeating themselves.
Which issues are those again? Player entitlement, basic marketing strategies, or just the mundane fact of a company producing yet another product (surprise!) to make money, as is their prerogative? May as well complain about the sun rising tomorrow.
If fetches are reprinted in a pack that approaches normal prices, I will be happy. I expect that a lot of newer and less enfranchised players (and people looking to enter modern) will be happy. That is good.
We can look back at Khans of Tarkir for this when they reprinted fetch lands, the only people that complained about the reprint were the ones who had 200 of each and were using them as a retirement plan, everyone else who actually plays the game were ecstatic about it.
You can't blame Wizards and Hasbro for making products to sell- that's literally what they're here to do.
That's very true that they are in the business of making money, but the issue is that they are trying to make ALL of the money, and that's not possible. We see this a lot with the game industry with video games and microtransactions. They keep trying to sell you on more and more things and while yes they have made billions with stupid little skins for your shoelaces eventually they are going to hit a point where people stop which then kills the product you wish to make or have made.
It's rather clear that their various releases lately are part of that push to always keep selling, never let the game out of your mind, and always make sure you sell as many variations as possible else your customers might lose that FOMO sensation. Hell, take a look at the last group of Secret Lairs as an example, they wanted to sell more even though they still hadn't shipped all of the last batch out. That's crazy to sell stuff you are unable to ship.
I have no problem missing out on products, especially when it comes to theme, collectors, and the new booster coming up in Zendikar 3, FTVs, Secret Lairs, $200 planeswalker bundles, $200 fetch land bundle, $400 Eldraine special edition, that weird time that had that Jace silver dollar, and much more. I don't need four copies of every card nor the next $800 new hotness deck in whatever format, but this series of events lately are showing a worrying trend for the game. It seems to show a more short term mind set rather than the long term, 'cause at this pace it may end up burning more people out than bringing in new customers.
They’re very clearly not trying to target every player with the entirety of their product lineup, though. Rather, they’re saturating the market (the ‘shotgun method,’ if you will) with as many different varieties of product to appeal to the widest audience possible. Is it greedy? Sure. Is it immoral? No. Is it a challenge for players who are compelled to buy into each product release? Well yeah, absolutely, and I would caution those players to prioritize their investments if Magic is proving to be an overly burdensome hobby.
I am shocked that Double Masters barely dented most prices of major cards. I imagine the price of the packs/boxes is at play. More went after singles, which derived the market of enough competition for singles prices, so little was done to lower the cost of the desirable cards.
Say what? Most prices are down 30-50% from a couple of months ago.
I got foils of Skithiryx, the Blight Dragon and The Scarab God for less than nonfoils cost back then.
Prices on a lot of cards are so outrageous that even at their discounted rate, they're pretty high.
I am shocked that Double Masters barely dented most prices of major cards. I imagine the price of the packs/boxes is at play. More went after singles, which derived the market of enough competition for singles prices, so little was done to lower the cost of the desirable cards.
Skittles was like $45 before the reprints now it's $20
Toxic Deludge was $31 now $15
Nauseam $22 now $6
And shusher $20 Now only around $5
Looks like major shift to me
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sadly that is correct
no matter how good reprints/cards and the set is this is exactly what will happen heck I even know they were complaining it was too weak before dominaria revist but you can't win now they complaining they are too powerful
also, I should point out and apologizes and no offense to some but I'm certain that some of the users complaining is intentional just for attention or/and to rile up people
you guys really do try to go a long way toward discrediting and ignoring any dissent when it comes to products.
its okay to be critical of these products, in fact a lot of the time its the only thing we really can do about them.
there have been plenty of sets that felt balanced. that felt like we were getting interesting, or powerful cards, in a decent mix with less interesting and less powerful cards. those sets felt fair and they felt like they were worth our time as well as our money. its easy to take complaints over a pushed card, or complaints over extremely weak cards and label it as the fault of the entire set. what's actually being criticized is the design, and in most case it isn't the person criticizing the design of a card that's criticizing the entire set but the people who see that complaint and throw up their hands saying no one will ever be happy. totally ignoring what people are actually unhappy about to fit their own narrative.
this set isn't even out yet. there are no spoilers yet. a few of you have already created this narrative that people are unhappy with the entire set for power reasons and reprints.
you've ignored what the complaint really is.
it has nothing to do with the power or lack of power with the set. it has nothing to do with the reprints here. we have no idea what those are. no one has said anything about those aspects of the set other than the few of you who are griping that people won't ever be happy.
the complaints levied so far are solely oriented around wallet fatigue and product bombardment. that's it. that's the complaint people have right now.
that's a legitimate concern. those voices should not be silenced by putting their criticisms under something they aren't even complaining about that you've instead manufactured yourself in this false narrative.
step back and think about the community you're creating because those kinds of attitudes go along way toward making actual discussion meaningless for many, and that in turn does make people walk away.
Criticism becomes pretty easy to ignore when it eventually turns from constructive to repetitive. It serves no one's best interest to to be a broken record on the subject, especially if it's coming from the same people every time. Trust me, we get it already.
---
#BLM
#DefundThePolice
---
#BLM
#DefundThePolice
So... if the object of the complaints makes the same mistakes repeatedly, and the complainers complain about it repeatedly, so that "you get it already", then that complaint becomes ignorable and invalid?
Just wanted to make sure I followed that illogic train...
As John Oliver recently pointed out (not that it's a novel concept), it's possible to be both of two things at once. Something can be ignorable and still have validity, especially if a) nothing new is being brought to the table, b) no solutions are being offered, and c) the object of the complaint is arguably subjective in nature. Seems perfectly logical to me.
---
#BLM
#DefundThePolice
---
#BLM
#DefundThePolice
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Kenessos, Priest of Thassa (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||
Agree with point C.
Disagree with point A, but I'm not going to bother citing sources, so I'll concede arguendo there.
Point B is easily deniable. The proposed solution by the plurality of complainers is to slow down the production of products at least to the pace at which they can effectively balance/test/polish them. I don't think _anyone_ would disagree that they are publishing faster than they can polish.
Is the relationship between product scheduling and product quality causal, or correlational? If we were to offer a different type of solution, one that didn’t hinge on ‘wallet fatigue’ (the most common, and to my mind, unreasonable complaint), might it be possible to still release this many products and also have balance / polish?
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#BLM
#DefundThePolice
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#BLM
#DefundThePolice
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Kenessos, Priest of Thassa (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||
Causality is difficult to demonstrate without a double-blind experiment. There is sufficient theoretical basis for presumed implied causality however. Even if it were only correlation, that implies another cause for both dependencies, i.e. something to fix.
2 cards banned in Standard between 2006 and 20016. 21 cards banned in Standard 2017 to 2020. And we're not done with 2020. That's an increase of 4100% I have a nice little graphic for that, but I grabbed it from a LGS's facebook so linkying it would be inappropriate.
Sure, it would be possible to release sets faster and still have polish. The business answer to that is easy: throw more money at the problem. Larger staff, more training, better version control procedures, etc. Let me know when you see Hasbro double the size of the WotC team, wont you?
I’m sure evolving ban / restriction philosophies have nothing to do with any of that. Is there another metric for “too many sets = bad” apart from rate of card suspension?
Sure! Let me know when you see Hasbro capitulate to the whims of some random forum-goers whining about wallet fatigue, will you?
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#BLM
#DefundThePolice
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#BLM
#DefundThePolice
While the contrary viewpoints on the game may make us seem like a negative community (especially as negativity is loud), I personally choose to interpret the multitude of voices within our community in a positive light.
If fetches are reprinted in a pack that approaches normal prices, I will be happy. I expect that a lot of newer and less enfranchised players (and people looking to enter modern) will be happy. That is good.
If fetches are printed as special-art boxtoppers for Zendikar that don't meaningfully move prices, one of my best friends will be happy as he can make his commander decks beautiful. I'm sure that quite a few enfranchised would feel similarly and the people who invested in fetches a while ago can continue on their silent conga line of value uninterrupted. That is also good.
No matter what wizards does, someone is going to be happy. If it isn't me this time around, that is okay. I may not vote with my wallet for more things that don't make me happy but I can still extend my happy thoughts and congratulations to the people who lucked out this time.
As in the game of magic, someone is almost always bound to win.
Here I thought we were having fun and you go with this stuff? SMH.
When did you stop having fun?
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#BLM
#DefundThePolice
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#BLM
#DefundThePolice
Ok... but... hear me out- You don't HAVE to buy everything. This year, yeah, there's been a lot of product, but SO MANY reprints. Maybe I suck at EDH, but my best decks haven't changed in a WHILE - I don't feel the need to run out and get every new card that COULD fit in there. Legacy has stayed relatively similar, minus the normal shakeups from expansions, and the rest of the formats don't have any added stress due to products like Jumpstart, because new cards aren't legal there.
So yeah, it's a lot of stuff. And while most of us are in this hobby because we are collectors, I think the hobby itself has gotten so big, it's time to stop trying to get 4 of every card ever printed as a default- I gave up buying new stuff that I don't need just to have it. My collection has thanked me and gotten a lot sexier, now that I can buy a $100 reserve list card instead of a box of Jumpstart- I just needed to reframe how I collect.
If you're like me and have been playing for a while it's easy to remember the days of Big-Small-Small-Core sets in one year which was a LOT easier to "collect em all!" than it is nowadays. (I remember when Coldsnap was an "extra set" in the year- it was AWESOME having an extra thing to buy in between expansions)
You can't blame Wizards and Hasbro for making products to sell- that's literally what they're here to do. It's almost like saying "Damn this restaurant for having so many tasty things on their menu! Making me fat because I have to order my 7 favorite meals! How am I to sustain this!?!?"
Take a deep breath guys, buy more singles, have more fun with boosters, and just enjoy the game- I'm just thankful they haven't ruined it (yet).
Perhaps the reason it's becoming repetitive is because the same issues keep repeating themselves.
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Kenessos, Priest of Thassa (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||
Say what? Most prices are down 30-50% from a couple of months ago.
I got foils of Skithiryx, the Blight Dragon and The Scarab God for less than nonfoils cost back then.
Which issues are those again? Player entitlement, basic marketing strategies, or just the mundane fact of a company producing yet another product (surprise!) to make money, as is their prerogative? May as well complain about the sun rising tomorrow.
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#BLM
#DefundThePolice
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#BLM
#DefundThePolice
We can look back at Khans of Tarkir for this when they reprinted fetch lands, the only people that complained about the reprint were the ones who had 200 of each and were using them as a retirement plan, everyone else who actually plays the game were ecstatic about it.
That's very true that they are in the business of making money, but the issue is that they are trying to make ALL of the money, and that's not possible. We see this a lot with the game industry with video games and microtransactions. They keep trying to sell you on more and more things and while yes they have made billions with stupid little skins for your shoelaces eventually they are going to hit a point where people stop which then kills the product you wish to make or have made.
It's rather clear that their various releases lately are part of that push to always keep selling, never let the game out of your mind, and always make sure you sell as many variations as possible else your customers might lose that FOMO sensation. Hell, take a look at the last group of Secret Lairs as an example, they wanted to sell more even though they still hadn't shipped all of the last batch out. That's crazy to sell stuff you are unable to ship.
I have no problem missing out on products, especially when it comes to theme, collectors, and the new booster coming up in Zendikar 3, FTVs, Secret Lairs, $200 planeswalker bundles, $200 fetch land bundle, $400 Eldraine special edition, that weird time that had that Jace silver dollar, and much more. I don't need four copies of every card nor the next $800 new hotness deck in whatever format, but this series of events lately are showing a worrying trend for the game. It seems to show a more short term mind set rather than the long term, 'cause at this pace it may end up burning more people out than bringing in new customers.
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#BLM
#DefundThePolice
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#BLM
#DefundThePolice
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Kenessos, Priest of Thassa (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||
I was responding directly to the points you raised. Then you started shotgunning with facetious nonsequiturs and a strawman or two.
I had thought better of you.
Skittles was like $45 before the reprints now it's $20
Toxic Deludge was $31 now $15
Nauseam $22 now $6
And shusher $20 Now only around $5
Looks like major shift to me