In addition, Invoke Prejudice's multiverse ID number (#1488) will be changed as it is used as signalling by neo-Nazis and white supremacists.
I'm surprised by Crusade as, though The Crusades were absoultely an attempt by one religion to replace another, the cards themselves, especailly later reprints had little nothing to do with that reference. But its their game, so their call.
The others, yeah, all on the spectrum of mildy- to blatantly-racist.
Also, interesting note from the Gatherer comments from Invoke Prejudice:
Just an FYI, about the artist, Harold McNeill:
I met him in '95 at WotC's Artist's Caravan along with other Magic artists.
I expressed to him my enjoyment of his (I thought absurd) art for Invoke Prejudice. He lit up, and said I might be interested in some of his other art, then. He pulled out a couple artbooks filled with racist and Nazi-inspired art. Creeped out beyond belief, I sheepishly thanked him and got the hell away from that table as quick as I could.
There's a reason why he has done almost zero professional work for a long time.
His MySpace confirms he's a complete racist nutjob. I'd say "not that there's anything wrong with that", but this is the 21st century, and YEAH - THERE'S SOMETHING WRONG WITH THAT.
Posted By: reapersaurus (12/30/2012 3:53:03 PM)
Hmmm, that's interesting. I'm glad WotC is taking some action, I hope it's not the end. There's more that corporations can do, and I'm glad WotC did more than the platitudinous white text on black background statement of support. Transparency and purposeful actions are needed, and this is an example of that.
i'm glad they're taking action. its long over due.
these cards have existed for over 20 years now, and for decades wotc remained silent. i think that needs to be acknowledged here too. that they knew about these cards and did nothing until the public perception dramatically changed.
i'd also be interested in hearing the perspective from nonwhite magic players, and knowing where the line is drawn as well as what other cards might be deemed racist (or sexist even) that have continued to go ignored
i'd also like to know what they're doing to get more diversity into both depictions on the cards, and into their pool of highly talented artists
The code of Invoke Prejudice is way too blunt to be a coincidence.
That was my first thought, as well. I cringed so hard when I read that because I'm not sure I can believe that was simple coincidence. But it matters that they were transparent about that, hopefully if it was not simple coincidence they are equally transparent.
Well, Invoke Prejudice and Jihad both had it coming for a while, and all the others are mild but also won't be missed so thumbs up here.
The Crusade thing also baffles me though, especially since it's a popular card in mono-White decks and we have a "Crusader" in Standard right now. Maybe it's more the combination of the name and the unfortunate implications of "White creatures get +1/+1", but then again, when the concept of colors is a core component of your game, this is kind of unavoidable.
Huh, I just read comments on Invoke Prejudice yesterday. And, yeah, while I'm sure that card was not meant to be real-world racist (the card per se creates a kind of "in-game racism," but seriously, I don't think anyone was going to complain about that alone - or were they?), Harold McNeill's artwork - which I'm sure he did fully on purpose - made it awkward even decades ago...
Stone-Throwing Devils, though? Maybe I'm missing something because I'm European, but that card doesn't depict humans, the devils to me don't look like caricatures of black people, and why I associate stone-throwing/stoning with ancient cultures, I don't with African-Americans??
Cleanse also seems an exaggerated reaction to me. "Destroy all black creatures." has in no way anything to do with violence against African-Americans or any other colored people... And I actually really looked at the artwork for the first time, noticed it's Phil Foglio and actually slightly amusing, as per his usual style (there seems to be a devil wearing jeans...).
Anyway, I guess this explains why Gatherer is down since hours.
Human Frailty is also not far enough from being reminiscent of an oppressor crushing someone they deem inferior under their leg like it happened in the real world.
...huh, somehow the scryfall links don't include the search entry after the colon and can't seem to fix that...
Stone-Throwing Devils, though? Maybe I'm missing something because I'm European, but that card doesn't depict humans, the devil to me don't look like caricatures of black people, and why I associate stone-throwing/stoning with ancient cultures, I don't with African-Americans??
It's mainly a reference to African "savages" as they were depicted for a long time.
Also, interesting note from the Gatherer comments from Invoke Prejudice:
Just an FYI, about the artist, Harold McNeill:
I met him in '95 at WotC's Artist's Caravan along with other Magic artists.
I expressed to him my enjoyment of his (I thought absurd) art for Invoke Prejudice. He lit up, and said I might be interested in some of his other art, then. He pulled out a couple artbooks filled with racist and Nazi-inspired art. Creeped out beyond belief, I sheepishly thanked him and got the hell away from that table as quick as I could.
There's a reason why he has done almost zero professional work for a long time.
His MySpace confirms he's a complete racist nutjob. I'd say "not that there's anything wrong with that", but this is the 21st century, and YEAH - THERE'S SOMETHING WRONG WITH THAT.
Posted By: reapersaurus (12/30/2012 3:53:03 PM)
I went to his myspace to confirm this. Holy cow, they were NOT kidding...
Well, Invoke Prejudice and Jihad both had it coming for a while, and all the others are mild but also won't be missed so thumbs up here.
The Crusade thing also baffles me though, especially since it's a popular card in mono-White decks and we have a "Crusader" in Standard right now. Maybe it's more the combination of the name and the unfortunate implications of "White creatures get +1/+1", but then again, when the concept of colors is a core component of your game, this is kind of unavoidable.
Unfortunately there’s nothing mild about Pradesh Gypsies. Gypsy is to the Romani what the “N word” is to black people.
It's mainly a reference to African "savages" as they were depicted for a long time.
Ok, I see what you mean... However, here also I do not think it really was their intent (and possibly also not the artist's?). I'm hardly an expert on Middle-Eastern culture, but the picture of jeering, harassing little devils casting stones on people sounds like something from 1001 nights.
Incidentally, the entire Arabian Nights set is of course mildly controversial due to its semi-real world setting. Today that might be called cultural appropriation...
I don't agree with the decision since this comes off as to only score some points with certain people. However, by going down this route it will just lead to more and more cards getting the axe.
Sure, whatever I guess? This move is both hilarious and confusing at the same time. Especially cleanse.
I don't think this really does anything to fight real world racism nor does it do anything to solve the societal issues of police brutality and our problems in the criminal justice system as a whole. It feels like mostly pointless grandstanding to me. Fantasy trading card games aren't responsible for real world racism.
The code of Invoke Prejudice is way too blunt to be a coincidence.
Can't check right now as it is down again, but I'd be interested to see which cards have 1481/2/3 ... 5/6/7... If they're all blue Legends cards that are, say, in alphabetical order around Invoke Prejudice, then it has to be sheer crazy chance. Anyway, claiming it was on purpose insinuates that at least back then, at least one deeply racist person was working at Wizards (or a VERY irreverent prankster) who also happened to be exactly the person who set up these numbers... "Bit of a" stretch to me.
Incidentally, completely discounting his background, I actually quite like McNeill's style. Nether Void for example is totally awesome imho.
Finally: If only they just showed this much enthusiasm in getting the login/rating/comment functionality back up in Gatherer!!! I used to be very active there and I've been sorely missing it for years now.
Stone-Throwing Devils, though? Maybe I'm missing something because I'm European, but that card doesn't depict humans, the devils to me don't look like caricatures of black people, and why I associate stone-throwing/stoning with ancient cultures, I don't with African-Americans??
According to WotC it's a slur used against muslims/arabian people.
Interestingly the only results in google are MtG related, so make of that what you will.
One item on the list I am stumped on is Imprison. Am I missing something here?
Stunning and brave. A true game-changer in the push toward diversity and equality. Wizards should now take the next step and ban the color black, due to it equating blackness with evil. It should also ban the color white, due to it equating whiteness with nobility. Finally, it should ban the color red, due to it equating Native American-ness with impulsiveness. The game should consist only of the colors blue and green (and colorless). Only then will racism be truly eliminated from our community.
It would probably help, too, to stop hiring white men to design or illustrate cards that depict any non-white non-male characters.
hmm, i didnt even know most of these cards, they are just to old. i guess now they get more attention than they would have gotten without the ban. i bet some will increase in price just because of this, which was surely not the intention. i mean the intention is good, but i wonder if there was the necessarity. for some cards like invoke prejudice, yea sure, 100% aggree. but cards like cleanse ? i mean it is clear, that this is ment in the context of magic colors, right ? else they need to get rid of color idendities and just call them swamp creatures, planes creatures or so on, which in my point of view would be over the top. is there really any person that is offendet by a card when it states something with color ? especially when there are soooooo many more cards that do exactly the same.
why is virtue's ruin okay for example but cleanse not ? i dont get that logic.
I don't think this really does anything to fight real world racism nor does it do anything to solve the societal issues of police brutality and our problems in the criminal justice system as a whole. It feels like mostly pointless grandstanding to me. Fantasy trading card games aren't responsible for real world racism.
You're right that a card game isn't responsible for racism, but as a component of the media, it can serve to uphold or reinforce it. And consequently, it can assist in loosening the knots, so to speak. Representation in media and media companies themselves taking an anti-racism stance can and do contribute to address racism on a societal level.
For instance, Will & Grace and Ellen in the 90s both shifted public sentiment about LGBTQ2S+ people in a positive direction. By exposing non-LGBTQ2S+ people to those concepts and characters they could empathize with, those shows were effective and pulling people in a progressive direction. Did either show solve homophobia? Not even close. They did, however, create opportunities for conversation, for exposure, for learning, and for bigotry to be challenged more purposefully. And those opportunities did have observable impacts on the way queer issues were seen.
Will this move by WotC do the same on that large a scale? I doubt it, but it will create those opportunities for conversation, exposure, learning, and challenging bigotry. It may open some players up to better understanding their privilege and/or ignorance, it may make some play spaces rethink their anti-racism policies to be better, it may make BIPOC players feel more at home in the fandom. And these things may be small in the greater picture of things, but they still hold meaning. Every little bit helps when it comes to issues this big and this systemic. It requires a great many areas of our society to engage with it, including games and media.
Stone-Throwing Devils, though? Maybe I'm missing something because I'm European, but that card doesn't depict humans, the devils to me don't look like caricatures of black people, and why I associate stone-throwing/stoning with ancient cultures, I don't with African-Americans??
According to WotC it's a slur used against muslims/arabian people.
Interestingly the only results in google are MtG related, so make of that what you will.
One item on the list I am stumped on is Imprison. Am I missing something here?
Basically, the following cards are banned in sanctioned play and their images will be removed from Gatherer.
Invoke Prejudice
Cleanse
Stone-Throwing Devils
Pradesh Gypsies
Jihad
Imprison
Crusade
In addition, Invoke Prejudice's multiverse ID number (#1488) will be changed as it is used as signalling by neo-Nazis and white supremacists.
I'm surprised by Crusade as, though The Crusades were absoultely an attempt by one religion to replace another, the cards themselves, especailly later reprints had little nothing to do with that reference. But its their game, so their call.
The others, yeah, all on the spectrum of mildy- to blatantly-racist.
Archatmos
Excellion
Fracture: Israfiel (WBR), Wujal (URG), Valedon (GUB), Amduat (BGW), Paladris (RWU)
Collision (Set Two of the Fracture Block)
Quest for the Forsaken (Set Two of the Excellion Block)
Katingal: Plane of Chains
these cards have existed for over 20 years now, and for decades wotc remained silent. i think that needs to be acknowledged here too. that they knew about these cards and did nothing until the public perception dramatically changed.
i'd also be interested in hearing the perspective from nonwhite magic players, and knowing where the line is drawn as well as what other cards might be deemed racist (or sexist even) that have continued to go ignored
i'd also like to know what they're doing to get more diversity into both depictions on the cards, and into their pool of highly talented artists
That was my first thought, as well. I cringed so hard when I read that because I'm not sure I can believe that was simple coincidence. But it matters that they were transparent about that, hopefully if it was not simple coincidence they are equally transparent.
Archatmos
Excellion
Fracture: Israfiel (WBR), Wujal (URG), Valedon (GUB), Amduat (BGW), Paladris (RWU)
Collision (Set Two of the Fracture Block)
Quest for the Forsaken (Set Two of the Excellion Block)
Katingal: Plane of Chains
The Crusade thing also baffles me though, especially since it's a popular card in mono-White decks and we have a "Crusader" in Standard right now. Maybe it's more the combination of the name and the unfortunate implications of "White creatures get +1/+1", but then again, when the concept of colors is a core component of your game, this is kind of unavoidable.
Stone-Throwing Devils, though? Maybe I'm missing something because I'm European, but that card doesn't depict humans, the devils to me don't look like caricatures of black people, and why I associate stone-throwing/stoning with ancient cultures, I don't with African-Americans??
Cleanse also seems an exaggerated reaction to me. "Destroy all black creatures." has in no way anything to do with violence against African-Americans or any other colored people... And I actually really looked at the artwork for the first time, noticed it's Phil Foglio and actually slightly amusing, as per his usual style (there seems to be a devil wearing jeans...).
Anyway, I guess this explains why Gatherer is down since hours.
https://scryfall.com/search?q=o:"destroy target black"
https://scryfall.com/search?q=ft:"an entire race killed"&unique=cards&as=grid&order=name
Human Frailty is also not far enough from being reminiscent of an oppressor crushing someone they deem inferior under their leg like it happened in the real world.
...huh, somehow the scryfall links don't include the search entry after the colon and can't seem to fix that...
It's mainly a reference to African "savages" as they were depicted for a long time.
I went to his myspace to confirm this. Holy cow, they were NOT kidding...
EDH DECKS
Currently under construction
MAGECRAFT STORM
-Veyran, Voice of Duality-
Protection from Degeneracy
Do not pray for an easy life. Pray for the strength to endure a difficult one.
Unfortunately there’s nothing mild about Pradesh Gypsies. Gypsy is to the Romani what the “N word” is to black people.
Imagine the RAGE that person will face.
----
Its clown world, this could very well be a April Fools joke and i would laugh about it ...
WUBRG#BlackLotusMatterWUBRG
👮👮👮 #BlueLivesMatter 👮👮👮
No, actually I now feel bad for his kitties.
Ok, I see what you mean... However, here also I do not think it really was their intent (and possibly also not the artist's?). I'm hardly an expert on Middle-Eastern culture, but the picture of jeering, harassing little devils casting stones on people sounds like something from 1001 nights.
Incidentally, the entire Arabian Nights set is of course mildly controversial due to its semi-real world setting. Today that might be called cultural appropriation...
I don't think this really does anything to fight real world racism nor does it do anything to solve the societal issues of police brutality and our problems in the criminal justice system as a whole. It feels like mostly pointless grandstanding to me. Fantasy trading card games aren't responsible for real world racism.
...why?
Incidentally, completely discounting his background, I actually quite like McNeill's style. Nether Void for example is totally awesome imho.
Finally: If only they just showed this much enthusiasm in getting the login/rating/comment functionality back up in Gatherer!!! I used to be very active there and I've been sorely missing it for years now.
According to WotC it's a slur used against muslims/arabian people.
Interestingly the only results in google are MtG related, so make of that what you will.
One item on the list I am stumped on is Imprison. Am I missing something here?
It would probably help, too, to stop hiring white men to design or illustrate cards that depict any non-white non-male characters.
why is virtue's ruin okay for example but cleanse not ? i dont get that logic.
You're right that a card game isn't responsible for racism, but as a component of the media, it can serve to uphold or reinforce it. And consequently, it can assist in loosening the knots, so to speak. Representation in media and media companies themselves taking an anti-racism stance can and do contribute to address racism on a societal level.
For instance, Will & Grace and Ellen in the 90s both shifted public sentiment about LGBTQ2S+ people in a positive direction. By exposing non-LGBTQ2S+ people to those concepts and characters they could empathize with, those shows were effective and pulling people in a progressive direction. Did either show solve homophobia? Not even close. They did, however, create opportunities for conversation, for exposure, for learning, and for bigotry to be challenged more purposefully. And those opportunities did have observable impacts on the way queer issues were seen.
Will this move by WotC do the same on that large a scale? I doubt it, but it will create those opportunities for conversation, exposure, learning, and challenging bigotry. It may open some players up to better understanding their privilege and/or ignorance, it may make some play spaces rethink their anti-racism policies to be better, it may make BIPOC players feel more at home in the fandom. And these things may be small in the greater picture of things, but they still hold meaning. Every little bit helps when it comes to issues this big and this systemic. It requires a great many areas of our society to engage with it, including games and media.
Archatmos
Excellion
Fracture: Israfiel (WBR), Wujal (URG), Valedon (GUB), Amduat (BGW), Paladris (RWU)
Collision (Set Two of the Fracture Block)
Quest for the Forsaken (Set Two of the Excellion Block)
Katingal: Plane of Chains
Minorities being depicted as monsters and killers of the "protectors" of human kind, just for that.
Probably the slave market of the 1400- later 1800