Depends of what you might want to get rid of, but yeah this is probably better as surprise blocker than straight removal.
But having both options sure doesn't hurt.
I see a 2 Mana 4/4 flying Angel for a sacrifice/already doomed creature/planeswalker. Or a emergency removal. Get rid of that ugin for example. That's nice. In feather decks you could upgrade your tokens/creatures for some angels (or just play divine visitation).
I hope we get some new angel creatures in this set but I fear that the dogs and humans will take to much place.
I see a 2 Mana 4/4 flying Angel for a sacrifice/already doomed creature/planeswalker. Or a emergency removal. Get rid of that ugin for example. That's nice. In feather decks you could upgrade your tokens/creatures for some angels (or just play divine visitation).
I hope we get some new angel creatures in this set but I fear that the dogs and humans will take to much place.
Well, we can at least expect to get enough angels for an angel-themed Jumpstart pack.
Please, mill me. Mill my important cards. Mill my lands. Mill it all. Because I will still deal 20 damage before you can mill 45 cards most every time.
I see a 2 Mana 4/4 flying Angel for a sacrifice/already doomed creature/planeswalker. Or a emergency removal. Get rid of that ugin for example. That's nice. In feather decks you could upgrade your tokens/creatures for some angels (or just play divine visitation).
I hope we get some new angel creatures in this set but I fear that the dogs and humans will take to much place.
Well, we can at least expect to get enough angels for an angel-themed Jumpstart pack.
I didn't know there was a angel themed booster-package. Strange... I know that you need two booster to create a deck but aren't angels a little to expensive Manawise? The cheaper ones are often in a higher rarity. I didn't expect them to fill many rare+ cards in there. You could combine them with a cheap themed booster I guess but isn't that super random. I thought there were more balanced. And the product is filled with reprints, too. So we could end with no new angels at all.
I see a 2 Mana 4/4 flying Angel for a sacrifice/already doomed creature/planeswalker. Or a emergency removal. Get rid of that ugin for example. That's nice. In feather decks you could upgrade your tokens/creatures for some angels (or just play divine visitation).
I hope we get some new angel creatures in this set but I fear that the dogs and humans will take to much place.
Well, we can at least expect to get enough angels for an angel-themed Jumpstart pack.
I didn't know there was a angel themed booster-package. Strange... I know that you need two booster to create a deck but aren't angels a little to expensive Manawise? The cheaper ones are often in a higher rarity. I didn't expect them to fill many rare+ cards in there. You could combine them with a cheap themed booster I guess but isn't that super random. I thought there were more balanced.
There's some pretty clearly angel themed support cards that could be added to such a booster. Additionally, there's also the chance for new cards as well.
This is a cool card. Powerful, but not something that's too straightforward in its use, which is something I enjoy and really think White needs a lot more of. It's a shame it says "creature or Planeswalker" instead of "nonland permanent", but with the Omens being a thing, that's understandable.
I didn't know there was a angel themed booster-package. Strange... I know that you need two booster to create a deck but aren't angels a little to expensive Manawise? The cheaper ones are often in a higher rarity. I didn't expect them to fill many rare+ cards in there. You could combine them with a cheap themed booster I guess but isn't that super random. I thought there were more balanced. And the product is filled with reprints, too. So we could end with no new angels at all.
It's just speculation, but angels are popular enough that no angel pack seems like a big missed opportunity. It would be foolish of them not to.
Please, mill me. Mill my important cards. Mill my lands. Mill it all. Because I will still deal 20 damage before you can mill 45 cards most every time.
Yeah people said Path to Exile and Beast Within wouldn't see play either. I'll snap these up from anyone who thinks they are worthless too and cash out if they go gangbusters. For the record, I think this will see play in modern, pioneer, and standard.
The thing is a 4/4 flyer is so much better than a 3/3 token. The reason Beast Within was often a thing was that the 3/3 was virtually irrelevant, giving your opponent a 4/4 flyer is going to cost you another card always as there aren't many decks that can just ignore a 4/4 flyer. It's whether the versatility of being able to turn one of your pieces into a 4/4 flyer makes it worth it. I would lean towards no because the problem with the latter half is the sort of deck wanting to do that won't have the ability to hold up 2 mana every turn to blunt a removal spell which is when such an effect would be good. I feel like the card disadvantage here ends up being too much whatever half you use.
In constructed it's still good. It almost always trades for profit with a planeswalker. UW based control decks often have a soft spot in terms of dealing with walkers at instant speed. The trade of will be worth it as UW control decks will cast a sweeper afterward. The fact that it leaves a 4/4 will be a benefit as it could double as a win condition. This is gas and I have the "I told you so's" on pre order.
A 4/4 flash flyer for 1W with "as an additional cost to cast, exile a creature or planeswalker you control" seems pretty good. I would consider the removal a B-mode for if you are extremely desperate (stopping a lethal attack or planeswalker ultimate). People seem extremely excited about drawing 2 cards for B and a creature but much less so about a 4/4 flyer for 1W and a creature instead.
In EDH, I can see this being played for its removal side, but you would have to be really interested in the planeswalker killing option which might be meta-based. White has much better instant speed creature exile already.
Yeah, just like Path to Exile's "A mode" was a 1 Mana ramp spell. The decks that want this card have very little to "trade" for a 4/4 flying angel. However they usually don't mind giving you a 4/4 they can get rid of very easily.
More like end of t2 exile whatever you just played. T3 play T3feri and bounce your angel. Draw a card. A mode for this right there.
Add it plays better with Snapcaster Mage and doesn't non-bo with Mana Leak and this cards A mode is clearly the destruction mode.
Yeah, just like Path to Exile's "A mode" was a 1 Mana ramp spell. The decks that want this card have very little to "trade" for a 4/4 flying angel. However they usually don't mind giving you a 4/4 they can get rid of very easily.
More like end of t2 exile whatever you just played. T3 play T3feri and bounce your angel. Draw a card. A mode for this right there.
See, the reason everyone is comparing this to Path or Trophy is because those cards gave relatively minor benefits to your opponent, while this one gives them something much better. My point was that people seem to be assuming "the decks that want this" are the decks that don't play creatures but are lacking cheap removal, and I'm not sure that's the case. I mean, can you imagine exiling their dude, taking a hit from a 4/4, then following it up with a shatter the sky? You're giving your opponent a 3-for-1. You'd have to really value the planeswalker killing aspect of this. Maybe it's worth it, but I'm not sure.
The only way blue/white control is getting rid of a 4/4 flyer "very easily" without ending up down a card is Teferi, as you mentioned, one of the strongest cards in standard that doesn't need any help. What t2 threat are you so eager to exile so that your teferi can bounce the angel? But yeah, I'll give you that this is good with Teferi. I just don't know if that is a reason to run this.
Add it plays better with Snapcaster Mage and doesn't non-bo with Mana Leak and this cards A mode is clearly the destruction mode.
Not sure I follow. Either "mode" of this card plays fine with Snapcaster mage - snappy even gives you the little body to upgrade for the angel, if you're so inclined. Not sure what you mean by either mode of this card being a nonbo (or combo?) with Mana Leak. What are you comparing it to in that regard?
Quote from haloreaper117 »
Yeah, just like Path to Exile's "A mode" was a 1 Mana ramp spell. The decks that want this card have very little to "trade" for a 4/4 flying angel. However they usually don't mind giving you a 4/4 they can get rid of very easily.
More like end of t2 exile whatever you just played. T3 play T3feri and bounce your angel. Draw a card. A mode for this right there.
See, the reason everyone is comparing this to Path or Trophy is because those cards gave relatively minor benefits to your opponent, while this one gives them something much better. My point was that people seem to be assuming "the decks that want this" are the decks that don't play creatures but are lacking cheap removal, and I'm not sure that's the case. I mean, can you imagine exiling their dude, taking a hit from a 4/4, then following it up with a shatter the sky? You're giving your opponent a 3-for-1. You'd have to really value the planeswalker killing aspect of this. Maybe it's worth it, but I'm not sure.
The only way blue/white control is getting rid of a 4/4 flyer "very easily" without ending up down a card is Teferi, as you mentioned, one of the strongest cards in standard that doesn't need any help. What t2 threat are you so eager to exile so that your teferi can bounce the angel? But yeah, I'll give you that this is good with Teferi. I just don't know if that is a reason to run this.
Add it plays better with Snapcaster Mage and doesn't non-bo with Mana Leak and this cards A mode is clearly the destruction mode.
Not sure I follow. Either "mode" of this card plays fine with Snapcaster mage - snappy even gives you the little body to upgrade for the angel, if you're so inclined. Not sure what you mean by either mode of this card being a nonbo (or combo?) with Mana Leak. What are you comparing it to in that regard?
Clearly you don't play modern or legacy at all.
First giving your opponent a creature in non rotating formats just to blow up a creature is like giving your opponent a time walk. Giving them a 4/4 is better because you plan on dealing with those all the time.
There are lots of things you want to kill dead (exile) on any turn of the game. If you can think of a threat in modern or legacy you wouldn't want to answer on t2 or t3 let me know!
It combos well with Snapcaster because it gives you a good target for a "B mode" while being castable off the ability. This isn't the main reason you play it.
The "mode" idea was introduced by someone else. I went with it.
Yeah, just like Path to Exile's "A mode" was a 1 Mana ramp spell. The decks that want this card have very little to "trade" for a 4/4 flying angel. However they usually don't mind giving you a 4/4 they can get rid of very easily.
More like end of t2 exile whatever you just played. T3 play T3feri and bounce your angel. Draw a card. A mode for this right there.
See, the reason everyone is comparing this to Path or Trophy is because those cards gave relatively minor benefits to your opponent, while this one gives them something much better. My point was that people seem to be assuming "the decks that want this" are the decks that don't play creatures but are lacking cheap removal, and I'm not sure that's the case. I mean, can you imagine exiling their dude, taking a hit from a 4/4, then following it up with a shatter the sky? You're giving your opponent a 3-for-1. You'd have to really value the planeswalker killing aspect of this. Maybe it's worth it, but I'm not sure.
The only way blue/white control is getting rid of a 4/4 flyer "very easily" without ending up down a card is Teferi, as you mentioned, one of the strongest cards in standard that doesn't need any help. What t2 threat are you so eager to exile so that your teferi can bounce the angel? But yeah, I'll give you that this is good with Teferi. I just don't know if that is a reason to run this.
Add it plays better with Snapcaster Mage and doesn't non-bo with Mana Leak and this cards A mode is clearly the destruction mode.
Not sure I follow. Either "mode" of this card plays fine with Snapcaster mage - snappy even gives you the little body to upgrade for the angel, if you're so inclined. Not sure what you mean by either mode of this card being a nonbo (or combo?) with Mana Leak. What are you comparing it to in that regard?
Clearly you don't play much modern or legacy!
First giving your opponent a land is like giving them a Time Walk. Giving them a 4/4 is often better than ramping them.
There are a lot of things I want to answer on my opponents t2 or t3. Why don't I mention the highlights. T2 Wrenn and Six, T3 is a tie between LOTV and Karn Liberated. I'd rather deal with a 4/4.
Using it on Snapcaster Mage would be a B mode/ A&B mode option (if you target another copy with the flashback ability) but Snapcaster Mage would probably be like the only creature in the deck.
2 Mana answers to planeswalkers are Always going to see play in standard!
Yeah, just like Path to Exile's "A mode" was a 1 Mana ramp spell. The decks that want this card have very little to "trade" for a 4/4 flying angel. However they usually don't mind giving you a 4/4 they can get rid of very easily.
More like end of t2 exile whatever you just played. T3 play T3feri and bounce your angel. Draw a card. A mode for this right there.
See, the reason everyone is comparing this to Path or Trophy is because those cards gave relatively minor benefits to your opponent, while this one gives them something much better. My point was that people seem to be assuming "the decks that want this" are the decks that don't play creatures but are lacking cheap removal, and I'm not sure that's the case. I mean, can you imagine exiling their dude, taking a hit from a 4/4, then following it up with a shatter the sky? You're giving your opponent a 3-for-1. You'd have to really value the planeswalker killing aspect of this. Maybe it's worth it, but I'm not sure.
The only way blue/white control is getting rid of a 4/4 flyer "very easily" without ending up down a card is Teferi, as you mentioned, one of the strongest cards in standard that doesn't need any help. What t2 threat are you so eager to exile so that your teferi can bounce the angel? But yeah, I'll give you that this is good with Teferi. I just don't know if that is a reason to run this.
Add it plays better with Snapcaster Mage and doesn't non-bo with Mana Leak and this cards A mode is clearly the destruction mode.
Not sure I follow. Either "mode" of this card plays fine with Snapcaster mage - snappy even gives you the little body to upgrade for the angel, if you're so inclined. Not sure what you mean by either mode of this card being a nonbo (or combo?) with Mana Leak. What are you comparing it to in that regard?
You clearly don't understand UW control decks in Modern and Legacy!
First giving your opponent a land is the worst thing you cand do in modern. It's like giving them a Time Walk. It's basically a 0 for 2. If you don't understand that than I really don't know what to tell you.
Second there are lots of things I want to answer immediately that I can't in modern or legacy right now. LOTV, Karn Liberated, Wrenn and Six. Just to name a couple. Stuff I can't deal with without countering it outright. I can deal with 4/4 all day. Trust me it annoys the crap out of people.
The fact that it can target and is a good target for a "B mode" is what makes it so good.
The mode terminology was someone else. I just went with it. Ask them about that.
You posted three times so I'm not going to quote respond. I was not talking about this in older formats. I assumed it was just outclassed there, but maybe not. I was speaking to standard. I only asked about snapcaster because I didn't know what you meant when you said this card plays "better" with snappy (better than what? what are you comparing it to?) or what non-bo with mana leak you were referring to - did you mean path is a nonbo with mana leak? Maybe this does replace path in modern white-based control, I wouldn't know.
This isn't better than Path to Exile in older formats, it just compliments it. I suppose if you played 4 copies of Mana Leak and Angelic Ascension you could not use Path to Exile but Path being only one mana is pretty important to. This is only in the running because it can exile planeswalkers at instant speed for 2 Mana. It might not ba an all-star in standard but anything that exiles creatures and planeswalkers for just 2 Mana is going to be big business in standard. It might not be a 4 of in anything but whatever you are trading it for is probably going to be in your favor!
That's another variant of beast within for edh this is fantastic
And I have a prediction
Despite being a amazing hosted removal for walkers and nasty creatures which I do agree since you can shoot a token to turn it into a flyer
Knowing you guys
Nearly all of you are gonna say I would rather shoot my own Thing
Google Translate says the flavor text says something like "In the battalion, she was known as the Angel of Arcovale. So far, it was just a metaphor."
But having both options sure doesn't hurt.
W(W/U)U Ephara - Flash & Taxes W(W/U)U || B(B/G)G Meren - Circle of Life B(B/G)G
RGW Marath - Ever shifting Wilds RGW || (U/R)C(W/B) Breya - Artificial Dominion (U/R)C(W/B)
UBR Becket Brass - take what you can, give nothing back UBR
I hope we get some new angel creatures in this set but I fear that the dogs and humans will take to much place.
Well, we can at least expect to get enough angels for an angel-themed Jumpstart pack.
I didn't know there was a angel themed booster-package. Strange... I know that you need two booster to create a deck but aren't angels a little to expensive Manawise? The cheaper ones are often in a higher rarity. I didn't expect them to fill many rare+ cards in there. You could combine them with a cheap themed booster I guess but isn't that super random. I thought there were more balanced. And the product is filled with reprints, too. So we could end with no new angels at all.
none
Modern
UBG B/U/G control
BBB MBC
WUR Control
WWW Prison
RRR Goblins
Legacy
BBB Pox
UBG B/U/G Control
UWU StoneBlade
UW Miracle Control
It's just speculation, but angels are popular enough that no angel pack seems like a big missed opportunity. It would be foolish of them not to.
'buster
HR Analyst. Gamer. Activist | Fearless, and forthright | Aggro-control is a mindset.
Elspeth and Jhoira rock my world.
In EDH, I can see this being played for its removal side, but you would have to be really interested in the planeswalker killing option which might be meta-based. White has much better instant speed creature exile already.
More like end of t2 exile whatever you just played. T3 play T3feri and bounce your angel. Draw a card. A mode for this right there.
Add it plays better with Snapcaster Mage and doesn't non-bo with Mana Leak and this cards A mode is clearly the destruction mode.
See, the reason everyone is comparing this to Path or Trophy is because those cards gave relatively minor benefits to your opponent, while this one gives them something much better. My point was that people seem to be assuming "the decks that want this" are the decks that don't play creatures but are lacking cheap removal, and I'm not sure that's the case. I mean, can you imagine exiling their dude, taking a hit from a 4/4, then following it up with a shatter the sky? You're giving your opponent a 3-for-1. You'd have to really value the planeswalker killing aspect of this. Maybe it's worth it, but I'm not sure.
The only way blue/white control is getting rid of a 4/4 flyer "very easily" without ending up down a card is Teferi, as you mentioned, one of the strongest cards in standard that doesn't need any help. What t2 threat are you so eager to exile so that your teferi can bounce the angel? But yeah, I'll give you that this is good with Teferi. I just don't know if that is a reason to run this.
Not sure I follow. Either "mode" of this card plays fine with Snapcaster mage - snappy even gives you the little body to upgrade for the angel, if you're so inclined. Not sure what you mean by either mode of this card being a nonbo (or combo?) with Mana Leak. What are you comparing it to in that regard?
Yeah, just like Path to Exile's "A mode" was a 1 Mana ramp spell. The decks that want this card have very little to "trade" for a 4/4 flying angel. However they usually don't mind giving you a 4/4 they can get rid of very easily.
More like end of t2 exile whatever you just played. T3 play T3feri and bounce your angel. Draw a card. A mode for this right there.
See, the reason everyone is comparing this to Path or Trophy is because those cards gave relatively minor benefits to your opponent, while this one gives them something much better. My point was that people seem to be assuming "the decks that want this" are the decks that don't play creatures but are lacking cheap removal, and I'm not sure that's the case. I mean, can you imagine exiling their dude, taking a hit from a 4/4, then following it up with a shatter the sky? You're giving your opponent a 3-for-1. You'd have to really value the planeswalker killing aspect of this. Maybe it's worth it, but I'm not sure.
The only way blue/white control is getting rid of a 4/4 flyer "very easily" without ending up down a card is Teferi, as you mentioned, one of the strongest cards in standard that doesn't need any help. What t2 threat are you so eager to exile so that your teferi can bounce the angel? But yeah, I'll give you that this is good with Teferi. I just don't know if that is a reason to run this.
Add it plays better with Snapcaster Mage and doesn't non-bo with Mana Leak and this cards A mode is clearly the destruction mode.
Not sure I follow. Either "mode" of this card plays fine with Snapcaster mage - snappy even gives you the little body to upgrade for the angel, if you're so inclined. Not sure what you mean by either mode of this card being a nonbo (or combo?) with Mana Leak. What are you comparing it to in that regard?
Clearly you don't play modern or legacy at all.
First giving your opponent a creature in non rotating formats just to blow up a creature is like giving your opponent a time walk. Giving them a 4/4 is better because you plan on dealing with those all the time.
There are lots of things you want to kill dead (exile) on any turn of the game. If you can think of a threat in modern or legacy you wouldn't want to answer on t2 or t3 let me know!
It combos well with Snapcaster because it gives you a good target for a "B mode" while being castable off the ability. This isn't the main reason you play it.
The "mode" idea was introduced by someone else. I went with it.
Clearly you don't play much modern or legacy!
First giving your opponent a land is like giving them a Time Walk. Giving them a 4/4 is often better than ramping them.
There are a lot of things I want to answer on my opponents t2 or t3. Why don't I mention the highlights. T2 Wrenn and Six, T3 is a tie between LOTV and Karn Liberated. I'd rather deal with a 4/4.
Using it on Snapcaster Mage would be a B mode/ A&B mode option (if you target another copy with the flashback ability) but Snapcaster Mage would probably be like the only creature in the deck.
2 Mana answers to planeswalkers are Always going to see play in standard!
You clearly don't understand UW control decks in Modern and Legacy!
First giving your opponent a land is the worst thing you cand do in modern. It's like giving them a Time Walk. It's basically a 0 for 2. If you don't understand that than I really don't know what to tell you.
Second there are lots of things I want to answer immediately that I can't in modern or legacy right now. LOTV, Karn Liberated, Wrenn and Six. Just to name a couple. Stuff I can't deal with without countering it outright. I can deal with 4/4 all day. Trust me it annoys the crap out of people.
The fact that it can target and is a good target for a "B mode" is what makes it so good.
The mode terminology was someone else. I just went with it. Ask them about that.
This aint your girlfriends meta! This is a man's meta! TURBO META.