Well they cant possible ban their cards before they sold the packs.
Sure they will ban some stuff in standard after the set sold (which is scummy as hell).
Lurrus (or even all Companion) are a guaranteed ban for Vintage (which is funny, as the usual "restriction" doesnt do anything to the Companion mechanic).
Restricting Lurrus doesn't do anything though. You already can only run one copy because his companion ability makes him unuseable in the main deck at the same time.
I wonder if they ever considered making the Companions start in the Command Zone. Then, if they got to be a problem in a given format you could just say that the Command Zone couldn't be utilized in that format.
I was thinking something very similar, but having a 'companion zone' being a format subrule that is off be default unless otherwise stated (maybe with limited being an exception). That way if people wanted to have a tournament with 'companion zone' legal it would be it's own sub-format, similar to if 2-headed giant, a planechase deck, or commander zone was used.
I wonder if they ever considered making the Companions start in the Command Zone. Then, if they got to be a problem in a given format you could just say that the Command Zone couldn't be utilized in that format.
Problem with that is that emblems exist in the command zone, would have to be an entirely new zone.
I wonder if they ever considered making the Companions start in the Command Zone. Then, if they got to be a problem in a given format you could just say that the Command Zone couldn't be utilized in that format.
Problem with that is that emblems exist in the command zone, would have to be an entirely new zone.
Ah, yes. It is really stupid sometimes how they assign zones. Companions are in your sideboard, Emblems are in the Command Zone (which isn't allowed to be spoken of except in Commander products) and Conspiracies are, of all things, *in play* (I'm pretty sure).
I don't personally understand why Emblems even have a zone -- players get infect counters and energy and experience counters whatever other oddities without assigning a "zone" to them (unless I'm wrong about that too lol)
I wonder if they ever considered making the Companions start in the Command Zone. Then, if they got to be a problem in a given format you could just say that the Command Zone couldn't be utilized in that format.
Problem with that is that emblems exist in the command zone, would have to be an entirely new zone.
Ah, yes. It is really stupid sometimes how they assign zones. Companions are in your sideboard, Emblems are in the Command Zone (which isn't allowed to be spoken of except in Commander products) and Conspiracies are, of all things, *in play* (I'm pretty sure).
I don't personally understand why Emblems even have a zone -- players get infect counters and energy and experience counters whatever other oddities without assigning a "zone" to them (unless I'm wrong about that too lol)
Conspiracys are in the command zone as well just look at any conspiracy they all state. (Start the game with this conspiracy face up in the command zone.)
Everything needs to be in a zone so that the rules can properly refer to them. Counters are the only psuedo exception because counters don't exist in a zone they exist on objects or players.
I'm not familiar with the Brawl format at all. Lurrus seems like a surefire ban in Legacy, but they might just axe the Companion mechanic in Legacy and Vintage just to get around banning a card in the "play nearly any cards you want" format of Vintage.
Very odd that Modern isn't seeing the same attention? Though maybe Companion usage will die down in the coming months. I think only Lurrus really strikes me as an absolutely busted turd for the format.
Very odd that Modern isn't seeing the same attention? Though maybe Companion usage will die down in the coming months. I think only Lurrus really strikes me as an absolutely busted turd for the format.
There are attempts with Yorion and Soulherder, but it's not doing so well there, if memory serves right.
The important takeaway from this:
Cards that are banned in Vintage are not legal in Commander.
I don't understand - where did you get that takeaway?
"All cards banned in Vintage are banned in Commander" is not part of the rules or ban list. All cards currently banned in Vintage are also banned in Commander, as far as I know, but (other than the ante cards) they are all banned on an individual basis. https://magic.wizards.com/en/content/commander-format
I haven't seen anything from the Rules Committee suggesting that they would auto-ban anything that got banned in Vintage, either.
The important takeaway from this:
Cards that are banned in Vintage are not legal in Commander.
I don't understand - where did you get that takeaway?
"All cards banned in Vintage are banned in Commander" is not part of the rules or ban list. All cards currently banned in Vintage are also banned in Commander, as far as I know, but (other than the ante cards) they are all banned on an individual basis. https://magic.wizards.com/en/content/commander-format
I haven't seen anything from the Rules Committee suggesting that they would auto-ban anything that got banned in Vintage, either.
It wouldn't be banned in Commander, it simply would not be legal. Commander uses the Vintage card pool, if a card is banned in Vintage it would simply not be legal in commander.
The important takeaway from this:
Cards that are banned in Vintage are not legal in Commander.
I don't understand - where did you get that takeaway?
"All cards banned in Vintage are banned in Commander" is not part of the rules or ban list. All cards currently banned in Vintage are also banned in Commander, as far as I know, but (other than the ante cards) they are all banned on an individual basis. https://magic.wizards.com/en/content/commander-format
I haven't seen anything from the Rules Committee suggesting that they would auto-ban anything that got banned in Vintage, either.
Things don't get to be banned in Vintage unless they totally whack-out the game. The "at least three feet" cards involve physical dexterity, Shaharazaad involves playing an entire game-within-a-game just to determine half of someone's life total, and the ante cards turn it into irl gambling. The only card that one could imagine being banned in Vintage, but isn't, is Goblin Game. (Not saying it should be—it essentially says "secretly pick a number"—I'm just giving an example of what I mean by "whacked-out.")
No amount of overpoweredness, unweildliness, or liability to break the meta in half, has ever gotten a card banned in Vintage. That only happens if a card turns a game of Magic itself into more than just a game of cards.
Lurrus is certainly OP, but so is the Power 9, and the deckbuilding peculiarities that Companions bring to the table have certainly never stopped things like Wishes from being Vintage-legal, either. Every card that would be banned anywhere else, is simply restricted in Vintage. That's kind of the whole point of the format.
Things don't get to be banned in Vintage unless they totally whack-out the game. The "at least three feet" cards involve physical dexterity, Shaharazaad involves playing an entire game-within-a-game just to determine half of someone's life total, and the ante cards turn it into irl gambling. The only card that one could imagine being banned in Vintage, but isn't, is Goblin Game. (Not saying it should be—it essentially says "secretly pick a number"—I'm just giving an example of what I mean by "whacked-out.")
No amount of overpoweredness, unweildliness, or liability to break the meta in half, has ever gotten a card banned in Vintage. That only happens if a card turns a game of Magic itself into more than just a game of cards.
Lurrus is certainly OP, but so is the Power 9, and the deckbuilding peculiarities that Companions bring to the table have certainly never stopped things like Wishes from being Vintage-legal, either. Every card that would be banned anywhere else, is simply restricted in Vintage. That's kind of the whole point of the format.
The entire point of this thread, though, is that Lurrus is the first effectively "un-restrictable" card to cause problems in Vintage. Anyone using Lurrus as companion can't have another in their library, meaning that restricting the card does nothing. It doesn't reduce the chances of getting it in your opening hand. It doesn't make opening turn strategies revolving around Lurrus work. Restricting this card in vintage does effectively nothing.
If Lurrus plays are too reliably powerful for Vintage and this card can't effectively be restricted, what else can wizards do but ban it? People aren't saying that Lurrus will be banned because it is better than cards like black lotus but because the method used to control black lotus in vintage literally does not work on this card.
Things don't get to be banned in Vintage unless they totally whack-out the game. The "at least three feet" cards involve physical dexterity, Shaharazaad involves playing an entire game-within-a-game just to determine half of someone's life total, and the ante cards turn it into irl gambling. The only card that one could imagine being banned in Vintage, but isn't, is Goblin Game. (Not saying it should be—it essentially says "secretly pick a number"—I'm just giving an example of what I mean by "whacked-out.")
No amount of overpoweredness, unweildliness, or liability to break the meta in half, has ever gotten a card banned in Vintage. That only happens if a card turns a game of Magic itself into more than just a game of cards.
Lurrus is certainly OP, but so is the Power 9, and the deckbuilding peculiarities that Companions bring to the table have certainly never stopped things like Wishes from being Vintage-legal, either. Every card that would be banned anywhere else, is simply restricted in Vintage. That's kind of the whole point of the format.
They specifically released a statement basically saying that if they needed to ban something in Vintage, they could.
They then went on to announce that there would be an update to the banned/restricted list for Vintage, Legacy and Brawl (the statements may have been the other way around in order, but result is the same). They wouldn't have done that if a ban was not on the table.
apparently only Brawl, Legacy and Vintage will be affected
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Oooh Dicey:
[dice=1]100[/dice]
Sure they will ban some stuff in standard after the set sold (which is scummy as hell).
Lurrus (or even all Companion) are a guaranteed ban for Vintage (which is funny, as the usual "restriction" doesnt do anything to the Companion mechanic).
WUBRG#BlackLotusMatterWUBRG
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enough preorders have moved and enough people have purchased singles, i'm sure there'll be more than 1 ikoria card banned.
Cards that are banned in Vintage are not legal in Commander.
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"Knowledge is such a burden. Release it. Release all your fears to me."
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But that’s only
Ante
Conspiracy
And the throw cards in the air
I think restricted is what’s happening
And almost no brainer Lurrus of the Dream-Den likely to get the restricted
Restricting Lurrus doesn't do anything though. You already can only run one copy because his companion ability makes him unuseable in the main deck at the same time.
Problem with that is that emblems exist in the command zone, would have to be an entirely new zone.
UBBreya's Toybox (Competitive, Combo)WR
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-Retired Decks-
UBLazav, Dimir Mastermind (Competitive, UB Voltron/Control)UB
"Knowledge is such a burden. Release it. Release all your fears to me."
—Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver
Ah, yes. It is really stupid sometimes how they assign zones. Companions are in your sideboard, Emblems are in the Command Zone (which isn't allowed to be spoken of except in Commander products) and Conspiracies are, of all things, *in play* (I'm pretty sure).
I don't personally understand why Emblems even have a zone -- players get infect counters and energy and experience counters whatever other oddities without assigning a "zone" to them (unless I'm wrong about that too lol)
Everything needs to be in a zone so that the rules can properly refer to them. Counters are the only psuedo exception because counters don't exist in a zone they exist on objects or players.
Very odd that Modern isn't seeing the same attention? Though maybe Companion usage will die down in the coming months. I think only Lurrus really strikes me as an absolutely busted turd for the format.
There are attempts with Yorion and Soulherder, but it's not doing so well there, if memory serves right.
I don't understand - where did you get that takeaway?
"All cards banned in Vintage are banned in Commander" is not part of the rules or ban list. All cards currently banned in Vintage are also banned in Commander, as far as I know, but (other than the ante cards) they are all banned on an individual basis. https://magic.wizards.com/en/content/commander-format
I haven't seen anything from the Rules Committee suggesting that they would auto-ban anything that got banned in Vintage, either.
It wouldn't be banned in Commander, it simply would not be legal. Commander uses the Vintage card pool, if a card is banned in Vintage it would simply not be legal in commander.
UBBreya's Toybox (Competitive, Combo)WR
RGodzilla, King of the MonstersG
-Retired Decks-
UBLazav, Dimir Mastermind (Competitive, UB Voltron/Control)UB
"Knowledge is such a burden. Release it. Release all your fears to me."
—Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver
https://mtgcommander.net/index.php/banned-list/
This is where it comes from this why the following aren’t on the banned list
https://scryfall.com/search?as=grid&order=name&q=banned:vintage
Because if not legal the vintage it's not legal here
No amount of overpoweredness, unweildliness, or liability to break the meta in half, has ever gotten a card banned in Vintage. That only happens if a card turns a game of Magic itself into more than just a game of cards.
Lurrus is certainly OP, but so is the Power 9, and the deckbuilding peculiarities that Companions bring to the table have certainly never stopped things like Wishes from being Vintage-legal, either. Every card that would be banned anywhere else, is simply restricted in Vintage. That's kind of the whole point of the format.
The entire point of this thread, though, is that Lurrus is the first effectively "un-restrictable" card to cause problems in Vintage. Anyone using Lurrus as companion can't have another in their library, meaning that restricting the card does nothing. It doesn't reduce the chances of getting it in your opening hand. It doesn't make opening turn strategies revolving around Lurrus work. Restricting this card in vintage does effectively nothing.
If Lurrus plays are too reliably powerful for Vintage and this card can't effectively be restricted, what else can wizards do but ban it? People aren't saying that Lurrus will be banned because it is better than cards like black lotus but because the method used to control black lotus in vintage literally does not work on this card.
They specifically released a statement basically saying that if they needed to ban something in Vintage, they could.
They then went on to announce that there would be an update to the banned/restricted list for Vintage, Legacy and Brawl (the statements may have been the other way around in order, but result is the same). They wouldn't have done that if a ban was not on the table.
UBBreya's Toybox (Competitive, Combo)WR
RGodzilla, King of the MonstersG
-Retired Decks-
UBLazav, Dimir Mastermind (Competitive, UB Voltron/Control)UB
"Knowledge is such a burden. Release it. Release all your fears to me."
—Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver
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