I don’t believe adding additional rules to ever be “no big deal”. Each additional rule makes it more confusing for a player to start something. Especially when it is a fundamental rule such as deck building restrictions. A new rule that says Hybrid’s color identity is whatever is most convenient. Sounds easy but it’s even easier to keep the rules the same. I would argue that allowing hybrid into any deck isn’t worth adding a contradictory rule.
Commander already has additional rules and exceptions. The commander damage rule for example is also an exception, because it only exists in commander and serves no real purpose as far as I can tell.
If you are concerned with rules complexity then are you advocating removing existing rules that aren't needed? Or is it solely about not adding new rules, in order to preserve the status quo, no matter the merit?
I would remove commander damage. As a rule it doesn’t pull its weight.
Adding a contradictory rule and changing existing rules to allow something are not the same thing. I don’t believe adding an exception rule is a good idea. There is no goal post moving.
This is goal post moving. Your original (implied) request was for people to provide a "clean" solution for hybrid. I presented not one but two. Even more, one of the rules changes actually contained the removal of an existing rule and replacing it with another, equally simple one (deck building restruction -> mana production restriction). If you really were concerned about rules compelxity, then that fix shouldn't be an issue.
My goal post of a clean implementation didn’t move. I stated I don’t think an exception rule is clean. No movement if goal post.
As for your other possible fix. I didn’t mention it because it met my criteria but I just don’t like what it’s doing. It’s a cleaner fix but I feel it would drastically change the format. It could be a good thing or it could be bad.
Like which? Do you mean cards like Summit Apes, Gruul Scrapper or Serpentine Kavu? Because yes, technically they face a similar issue as hybrid, but unlike hybrid these are are supposed to be played like multi-colour cards, at least in constructed. Nobody would play Gruul Scrapper in a non-red deck, but people would totally play Deus of Calamity in mono-green.
I was thinking more along the lines of Altar of Shadows, or crystal shard. You know, the cards that color identity matters in a restrictive way. Many decks who don’t fit the color identity of these cards would like to run them. And could make “full” use of them.
okay right, except flavor also matters to this format and these are meant to be prohibitively in only those colored decks. its a fundamental rule of the format. why even have the color identity restriction at all if you change it to where these things are available to every deck.
okay right, except flavor also matters to this format and these are meant to be prohibitively in only those colored decks. its a fundamental rule of the format. why even have the color identity restriction at all if you change it to where these things are available to every deck.
I am greatly confused by your quote and text for what side of the argument you intended on taking. Are you pro hybrid inclusion or against? Or are you just speaking out against the specific rule that Flisch suggested that you didn't quote about allowing any card but disallowing mana production?
okay right, except flavor also matters to this format and these are meant to be prohibitively in only those colored decks. its a fundamental rule of the format. why even have the color identity restriction at all if you change it to where these things are available to every deck.
I am greatly confused by your quote and text for what side of the argument you intended on taking. Are you pro hybrid inclusion or against? Or are you just speaking out against the specific rule that Flisch suggested that you didn't quote about allowing any card but disallowing mana production?
i'm against including multicolored hybrid cards in decks that don't support their multicolored identity.
look we all know in other formats the intent is to allow them more flexibility in where they're run, murderous redcap easily going into anyhing r/x or b/x and not just b/r... but, edh is a format where colors matter, its a stipulation of deck building. there isn't really any reason that a hybrid card should be allowed into any deck that can happen to produce the mana, the card is still multicolored. there's also very very little gained here at all outside of some fringe interactions or people that just want it. if there was a massive amount of hybrids maybe it should be reconsidered, but there aren't and flavor matters here.
i see someone else suggested that commander damage does nothing... have you played games where someone sits behind an oloro wall and ends up at 200+ life? hoofing out doesn't always work, combo'ing out doesn't always work, commander damage is again an inherent flavor of the format and it does have a very specific purpose so that should be sticking around to
the format has seen unprecedented popularity, so why change what isn't broken just because some people dont like the flavor behind it
i think once we start eliminating things like this, why have legendary be a requirement of the command zone? why not any creature? or enchantment? or maybe an artifact? the point is we start moving down this slope that has us end up at 100 card singleton... which was never very popular and gave birth to edh. id wager enough small changes attacking flavor behind edh on a long enough time line mmakes us end up right back where we started anyway.
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okay right, except flavor also matters to this format and these are meant to be prohibitively in only those colored decks. its a fundamental rule of the format. why even have the color identity restriction at all if you change it to where these things are available to every deck.
Is it really flavor, or just a deliberate opportunity cost?
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#DefundThePolice
i'm against including multicolored hybrid cards in decks that don't support their multicolored identity.
look we all know in other formats the intent is to allow them more flexibility in where they're run, murderous redcap easily going into anyhing r/x or b/x and not just b/r... but, edh is a format where colors matter, its a stipulation of deck building. there isn't really any reason that a hybrid card should be allowed into any deck that can happen to produce the mana, the card is still multicolored. there's also very very little gained here at all outside of some fringe interactions or people that just want it. if there was a massive amount of hybrids maybe it should be reconsidered, but there aren't and flavor matters here.
i see someone else suggested that commander damage does nothing... have you played games where someone sits behind an oloro wall and ends up at 200+ life? hoofing out doesn't always work, combo'ing out doesn't always work, commander damage is again an inherent flavor of the format and it does have a very specific purpose so that should be sticking around to
the format has seen unprecedented popularity, so why change what isn't broken just because some people dont like the flavor behind it
i think once we start eliminating things like this, why have legendary be a requirement of the command zone? why not any creature? or enchantment? or maybe an artifact? the point is we start moving down this slope that has us end up at 100 card singleton... which was never very popular and gave birth to edh. id wager enough small changes attacking flavor behind edh on a long enough time line mmakes us end up right back where we started anyway.