Cartographer's Hawk 1W
Creature- Bird
Flying
When Cartographer's Hawk deals combat damage to a player who controls more lands than you, return it to it's owner's hand. If you do, you may search your library for a Plains card, put it on to the battlefield tapped, then shuffle your library.
2/1
Here's that repeatable ramp thing Gavin mentioned. How good is it? Probably not that much.
Oh Jesus, gross. Slow, vulnerable, needs to connect, only helps when you're behind.
How many lands can you reasonably expect to fetch with this? Two? Over three to four turns? If they're ahead on lands, it's more likely they have answers for a dinky 2/1 flyer anyway. You're only ever playing catch up, and this stupid bird bounces itself when it finally does something right, thus slowing it down considerably.
Somebody convince me this card is useful at all, maybe I'm not seeing something. As it stands now, I hate it.
When I heard "mono-white repeatable ramp", I was expecting some overpriced 5+ mana Enchantment. But a cheap, efficient 2 mana creature? Hot dang.
Obviously not going to solve the color's main problems, but it's still extremely efficient. If you're not the first turn player, it's an almost guaranteed Turn 3 ramp, and the fact it searches any Plains is one great upside for reasons I'm sure I don't need to mention. But since White oftenly uses Equipments, the fact it's an evasive dork means it holds Swords exceptionally well in the lategame too. It's probably no Dockside Extortionist, but it's still a very useful tool for White decks.
Oh Jesus, gross. Slow, vulnerable, only helps when you're behind.
How many lands can you reasonably expect to fetch with this? Two? Over three to four turns? If they're ahead on lands, it's more likely they have answers for a dinky 2/1 flyer anyway. You're only ever playing catch up, and this stupid bird bounces itself when it finally does something right, thus slowing it down considerably.
Somebody convince me this card is useful at all, maybe I'm not seeing something. As it stands now, I hate it.
Its helpful because Mono-W tends to be the deck behind on lands. and It allows teh Mono-W player keep up with the G player who is AHEAD of everyone else. And this little bird will often get through G as G lacks fliers and now many Reach creatures are worth much
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This aint your girlfriends meta! This is a man's meta! TURBO META.
Its helpful because Mono-W tends to be the deck behind on lands. and It allows teh Mono-W player keep up with the G player who is AHEAD of everyone else. And this little bird will often get through G as G lacks fliers and now many Reach creatures are worth much
So you play this on two. Comes back around your Green opponent is up at least one extra land now. Swing with it on 3, get one extra land and the hawk goes back to your hand. Turn four you have to spend half your mana to get this guy back out and then wait another turn before you can get one more land. In the mean time the Green player went Farseek, Cultivate, Skyshroud Claim, Boundless Realms and has effectively infinite mana.
a step in the right direction, but way, way, way too damn slow to matter.
you're behind on lands. now you have to stick this guy, wait a full turn rotation, successfully have it connect with a person, and THEN you can get a single plains.
its cute on paper, and people will fawn over it, but its just too slow to do what you need.
Its helpful because Mono-W tends to be the deck behind on lands. and It allows teh Mono-W player keep up with the G player who is AHEAD of everyone else. And this little bird will often get through G as G lacks fliers and now many Reach creatures are worth much
So you play this on two. Comes back around your Green opponent is up at least one extra land now. Swing with it on 3, get one extra land and the hawk goes back to your hand. Turn four you have to spend half your mana to get this guy back out and then wait another turn before you can get one more land. In the mean time the Green player went Farseek, Cultivate, Skyshroud Claim, Boundless Realms and has effectively infinite mana.
Yeah, this is pretty much where I'm at. At best, you swing with the hawk on turns three, five, and seven and are still behind the player ramping. You may be ahead of someone else at the table, I guess, but you needed to tie up two mana on turns two, four, and six to make that happen. I don't know if I ever want to do that.
You can swing on turn three with Sword of the Animist, get just as far ahead on that turn, and even if you have to pay two mana every couple of turns, you're still fetching lands far more consistently than with this.
So you play this on two. Comes back around your Green opponent is up at least one extra land now. Swing with it on 3, get one extra land and the hawk goes back to your hand. Turn four you have to spend half your mana to get this guy back out and then wait another turn before you can get one more land. In the mean time the Green player went Farseek, Cultivate, Skyshroud Claim, Boundless Realms and has effectively infinite mana.
Are you really taking a piss on one single two-mana card because it's not as efficient as four different cards played in a row? You just mentioned one card that does nearly the exact same thing this does, aka. Farseek, except this card has the drawback of being "delayed" by one turn and the upside of being a mana sink after Turn 3. A single card is obviously not going to solve every one of White's problems.
Are you really taking a piss on one single two-mana card because it's not as efficient as four different cards played in a row? You just mentioned one card that does nearly the exact same thing this does, aka. Farseek, except this card has the drawback of being "delayed" by one turn and the upside of being a mana sink after Turn 3. A single card is obviously not going to solve every one of White's problems.
I'm tempering the people who think that this is keeping the non-Green player at pace with the Green player. It's a good sign that they acknowledge the problems white has but this is not a good solution. Smothering Tithe, so far, is by a country mile the best white ramp card. And I bring up the multiple cards that the green player can play because it helps make clear how deficient the Hawk is. I'd have paid an extra mana and had it be a 1/1 for the hawk not to bounce. It's not that, in a vacuum, it's bad. It's that Magic isn't played in a vacuum and you have to consider the competition when you think about how well this card is going to help you keep up.
I just wanna point out that nothing prevents you from dropping the hawk again the same turn it bounces itself. If ramping becomes that important, you can just keep hitting people, bouncing the hawk, and replaying it that same turn. So it doesn't have to ramp on turns 3, 5, and 7, it can ramp on turns 3, 4, 5, 6, and 7 if you can keep connecting and want to invest in it.
Smothering Tithe, so far, is by a country mile the best white ramp card. And I bring up the multiple cards that the green player can play because it helps make clear how deficient the Hawk is. I'd have paid an extra mana and had it be a 1/1 for the hawk not to bounce. It's not that, in a vacuum, it's bad. It's that Magic isn't played in a vacuum and you have to consider the competition when you think about how well this card is going to help you keep up.
And my point is that you are NOT supposed to "keep up" in mana generation with a Green player. That's like complaining that the Blue player is always the one with the most cards in hand. The fact this card exists is already a great tool to help the White player do something he usually couldn't, but it's not something that should break color pie balance, or that the skewered color balance in EDH should justify broken cards.
And yeah, Smothering Tithe is by far a better card. You still have 98 slots and the rest of your curve to fill in your mono-White deck.
I just wanna point out that nothing prevents you from dropping the hawk again the same turn it bounces itself. If ramping becomes that important, you can just keep hitting people, bouncing the hawk, and replaying it that same turn. So it doesn't have to ramp on turns 3, 5, and 7, it can ramp on turns 3, 4, 5, 6, and 7 if you can keep connecting and want to invest in it.
The point was already made that, while you're busy fiddling with Glacier Hawk, any player ramping with green is already going off and winning the game.
It's a second Thawing Glaciers for white... when you're behind... and it's attached to a more vulnerable body... though it can find shocks and other duals and doesn't force you to wait a full turn between uses.
Honestly, I'm fine with this card:
1) While it stinks, this and Knight of the White Orchid are the only real cheap white ramp spells we have (Tithe, Weathered Wayfarer, and Land Tax don't actually put lands into play, after all). Once you put in your mandatory crypt, ring, signet, medallion, relic, depress automoton, and tithe, this is legitimately one of the best choices as it's reusable. I personally put this card right above Burnished Hart for applicable decks.
2) The stage of the game when you'd really need this is also the stage when there is the highest chance of one player being open in the air.
3) Being a weak creature allows it to be recruited by both recruiters in a boros deck and lets a surprising number of creatures revive it to continue fetching lands if it dies.
I am honestly a fan for this in Alesha (who can revive it in mid-attack), Ephara (who likes self-bound effects), Kangee (because it's a bird), Sephara (because it doubles as a flier), and Teshar (is an applicable target). In other White, Boros, Azorius, Orzhov, Jeskai, Mardu, and Esper decks, this card may make the cut as well if the mana curve runs high.
I just wanna point out that nothing prevents you from dropping the hawk again the same turn it bounces itself. If ramping becomes that important, you can just keep hitting people, bouncing the hawk, and replaying it that same turn. So it doesn't have to ramp on turns 3, 5, and 7, it can ramp on turns 3, 4, 5, 6, and 7 if you can keep connecting and want to invest in it.
That's not a terrible point to make, and I thank you for it. I just don't understand why you'd want to invest two mana every turn for this, if you do you are likely losing. In my play groups, I'd play this for sympathy and political points because tying up two mana every turn for woefully vulnerable and conditional catch up ramp is really janky and my usual opponents would just feel bad for me.
I just wanna point out that nothing prevents you from dropping the hawk again the same turn it bounces itself. If ramping becomes that important, you can just keep hitting people, bouncing the hawk, and replaying it that same turn. So it doesn't have to ramp on turns 3, 5, and 7, it can ramp on turns 3, 4, 5, 6, and 7 if you can keep connecting and want to invest in it.
The point was already made that, while you're busy fiddling with Glacier Hawk, any player ramping with green is already going off and winning the game.
I was largely responding to the comparison to Thawing Glacier, because the massive difference is that you don't have to wait a turn between uses, which is a fact that multiple people in the thread were getting wrong.
I would play this in Mono white. Is okaish and there aren't many white ramp options... I would play this in God-Eternal Oketra Decks or other decks that cares for creature summoning. It is a little slow, tho.
Cartographer's Hawk 1W
Creature- Bird
Flying
When Cartographer's Hawk deals combat damage to a player who controls more lands than you, return it to it's owner's hand. If you do, you may search your library for a Plains card, put it on to the battlefield tapped, then shuffle your library.
2/1
Here's that repeatable ramp thing Gavin mentioned. How good is it? Probably not that much.
Source: Sheldon Menerey
And another way for white players to catch up
How is it slowing people down?
'buster
HR Analyst. Gamer. Activist | Fearless, and forthright | Aggro-control is a mindset.
Elspeth and Jhoira rock my world.
You bounce a land back to the defenders hand if they are trying to hit a number they will be stuck at a number plus stuff like kangaroo lands
I know what your trying to do I’m aware of omnath, locus of rage decks and landfall essentially
You can do politics with them
No. You don't.
You return the hawk to your hand.
This aint your girlfriends meta! This is a man's meta! TURBO META.
How many lands can you reasonably expect to fetch with this? Two? Over three to four turns? If they're ahead on lands, it's more likely they have answers for a dinky 2/1 flyer anyway. You're only ever playing catch up, and this stupid bird bounces itself when it finally does something right, thus slowing it down considerably.
Somebody convince me this card is useful at all, maybe I'm not seeing something. As it stands now, I hate it.
Archatmos
Excellion
Fracture: Israfiel (WBR), Wujal (URG), Valedon (GUB), Amduat (BGW), Paladris (RWU)
Collision (Set Two of the Fracture Block)
Quest for the Forsaken (Set Two of the Excellion Block)
Katingal: Plane of Chains
Obviously not going to solve the color's main problems, but it's still extremely efficient. If you're not the first turn player, it's an almost guaranteed Turn 3 ramp, and the fact it searches any Plains is one great upside for reasons I'm sure I don't need to mention. But since White oftenly uses Equipments, the fact it's an evasive dork means it holds Swords exceptionally well in the lategame too. It's probably no Dockside Extortionist, but it's still a very useful tool for White decks.
---
#BLM
#DefundThePolice
Its helpful because Mono-W tends to be the deck behind on lands. and It allows teh Mono-W player keep up with the G player who is AHEAD of everyone else. And this little bird will often get through G as G lacks fliers and now many Reach creatures are worth much
This aint your girlfriends meta! This is a man's meta! TURBO META.
So you play this on two. Comes back around your Green opponent is up at least one extra land now. Swing with it on 3, get one extra land and the hawk goes back to your hand. Turn four you have to spend half your mana to get this guy back out and then wait another turn before you can get one more land. In the mean time the Green player went Farseek, Cultivate, Skyshroud Claim, Boundless Realms and has effectively infinite mana.
you're behind on lands. now you have to stick this guy, wait a full turn rotation, successfully have it connect with a person, and THEN you can get a single plains.
its cute on paper, and people will fawn over it, but its just too slow to do what you need.
Yeah, this is pretty much where I'm at. At best, you swing with the hawk on turns three, five, and seven and are still behind the player ramping. You may be ahead of someone else at the table, I guess, but you needed to tie up two mana on turns two, four, and six to make that happen. I don't know if I ever want to do that.
You can swing on turn three with Sword of the Animist, get just as far ahead on that turn, and even if you have to pay two mana every couple of turns, you're still fetching lands far more consistently than with this.
Archatmos
Excellion
Fracture: Israfiel (WBR), Wujal (URG), Valedon (GUB), Amduat (BGW), Paladris (RWU)
Collision (Set Two of the Fracture Block)
Quest for the Forsaken (Set Two of the Excellion Block)
Katingal: Plane of Chains
I think the bigger issue here is that it doesn't even come close to solving just one of White's many problems.
---
#BLM
#DefundThePolice
I'm tempering the people who think that this is keeping the non-Green player at pace with the Green player. It's a good sign that they acknowledge the problems white has but this is not a good solution. Smothering Tithe, so far, is by a country mile the best white ramp card. And I bring up the multiple cards that the green player can play because it helps make clear how deficient the Hawk is. I'd have paid an extra mana and had it be a 1/1 for the hawk not to bounce. It's not that, in a vacuum, it's bad. It's that Magic isn't played in a vacuum and you have to consider the competition when you think about how well this card is going to help you keep up.
And my point is that you are NOT supposed to "keep up" in mana generation with a Green player. That's like complaining that the Blue player is always the one with the most cards in hand. The fact this card exists is already a great tool to help the White player do something he usually couldn't, but it's not something that should break color pie balance, or that the skewered color balance in EDH should justify broken cards.
And yeah, Smothering Tithe is by far a better card. You still have 98 slots and the rest of your curve to fill in your mono-White deck.
The point was already made that, while you're busy fiddling with Glacier Hawk, any player ramping with green is already going off and winning the game.
---
#BLM
#DefundThePolice
Honestly, I'm fine with this card:
1) While it stinks, this and Knight of the White Orchid are the only real cheap white ramp spells we have (Tithe, Weathered Wayfarer, and Land Tax don't actually put lands into play, after all). Once you put in your mandatory crypt, ring, signet, medallion, relic, depress automoton, and tithe, this is legitimately one of the best choices as it's reusable. I personally put this card right above Burnished Hart for applicable decks.
2) The stage of the game when you'd really need this is also the stage when there is the highest chance of one player being open in the air.
3) Being a weak creature allows it to be recruited by both recruiters in a boros deck and lets a surprising number of creatures revive it to continue fetching lands if it dies.
I am honestly a fan for this in Alesha (who can revive it in mid-attack), Ephara (who likes self-bound effects), Kangee (because it's a bird), Sephara (because it doubles as a flier), and Teshar (is an applicable target). In other White, Boros, Azorius, Orzhov, Jeskai, Mardu, and Esper decks, this card may make the cut as well if the mana curve runs high.
That's not a terrible point to make, and I thank you for it. I just don't understand why you'd want to invest two mana every turn for this, if you do you are likely losing. In my play groups, I'd play this for sympathy and political points because tying up two mana every turn for woefully vulnerable and conditional catch up ramp is really janky and my usual opponents would just feel bad for me.
Archatmos
Excellion
Fracture: Israfiel (WBR), Wujal (URG), Valedon (GUB), Amduat (BGW), Paladris (RWU)
Collision (Set Two of the Fracture Block)
Quest for the Forsaken (Set Two of the Excellion Block)
Katingal: Plane of Chains
Edit: Works well with Cathars' Crusade, soul sister effects in Heliod, Sun-Crowned