thats a holy crud type of group hug but you and walkers gain protection from that player for that turn though decent wish creatures was protected as well though
wow great you have pro that player, big deal. they combo out or get so far ahead it doesn't matter. can't even use this thing in 2 headed giant. waste of cardboard.
I love it. It really takes meta knowledge and political skill to use it well, but it can be used to great effect. Helping out the player with the worst board state will often have negligible at best consequences for you, if nothing else.
One player in a group I know rarely plays to win, just to stall the game and keep others from winning. She's going to go ape***** for this card. Also because it's a cute flying otter beater.
wow great you have pro that player, big deal. they combo out or get so far ahead it doesn't matter. can't even use this thing in 2 headed giant. waste of cardboard.
Are you sure because you and walkers get a True-Name Nemesis protection from the chosen one til your next turn
Note they can still attack you. Admittedly, this is truly marginal. If they are running afflict creatures, just not block them. If they have Master Of Cruelties, at worst, there goes your Frolicker.
Note they can still attack you. Admittedly, this is truly marginal. If they are running afflict creatures, just not block them. If they have Master Of Cruelties, at worst, there goes your Frolicker.
Remember the DEBT of protection for players
Damaged by sources with the specified quality. (All such damage is prevented.)
Enchanted, equipped, or fortified by permanents with the specified quality.
Blocked by creatures with the specified quality.
Targeted by spells with the specified quality, or by abilities from sources of that quality.
Still lots of stuff but yes blocking or ridding cruelty is necessary
Giving anyone an extra turn in my meta could be game ending. It's cute. It's nice that we still get to have an elemental otter that's legal. But I gotta say it's not a go for me.
You're giving someone else a 5-mana effect in order to get a 4 mana 5/5. Sure there's some politicking you can do, and some two-card combos that get you a 4 mana 5/5 with no downside, but at the end of the day you're giving away a Time Walk in order to get an already appropriately costed body. Truly atrocious.
Ryperior kind of mentioned this already, but you can just kill the chosen player before their extra turn. They can't block your creatures.
Of course mainly this is just a group hug/political kind of card. A 5/5 flying for 4 is obviously efficient but not a card you particularly want for commander, so you want to have a reason to give someone an extra turn (politics, get a promise from that player to use the turn to harm someone else, etc.) or be very group hug to want this. Or, like I said, just kill them, but that's probably corner-case too.
Not all cards are for everyone, and this is especially true in commander. But as a large adorable flying otter that has political uses, I think this is going to make some people quite happy.
You're giving someone else a 5-mana effect in order to get a 4 mana 5/5. Sure there's some politicking you can do, and some two-card combos that get you a 4 mana 5/5 with no downside, but at the end of the day you're giving away a Time Walk in order to get an already appropriately costed body. Truly atrocious.
Ideally, by picking someone who is a tentative ally, you're getting a five mana effect in your favor (since the protection makes it difficult for them to betray you) to go with your 5/5 flyer. Additionally, since the Protection lasts through both of their turns, not just the extra one, there's going to be times where the extra time to hold off their game winning swing is more important than the extra turn they get.
You're giving someone else a 5-mana effect in order to get a 4 mana 5/5. Sure there's some politicking you can do, and some two-card combos that get you a 4 mana 5/5 with no downside, but at the end of the day you're giving away a Time Walk in order to get an already appropriately costed body. Truly atrocious.
This is the kind of card you want to play at casual level Commander, give a player the extra turn that is friendly to you, they attack somebody else and get you ahead, then its good for you (and the protection ensures they wont mess with you in the meantime).
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Fine card in my book, it does what it promises.
Not sure why they made it only do it on cast, thats kinda lame as flickering this guy with something like Thassa would be funny to get your "partner in crime" to beat all the other players up.
This card is very cool. It’s not about blunt force, obvious value, easy wins. It’s about interacting in your multiplayer commander group and making deals. I like that they’re designing these kinds of cards amongst the stupidly blatant pushed cards. It keeps things interesting.
wow great you have pro that player, big deal. they combo out or get so far ahead it doesn't matter. can't even use this thing in 2 headed giant. waste of cardboard.
Are you sure because you and walkers get a True-Name Nemesis protection from the chosen one til your next turn
so you're jumping through hoops to get a 5/5 for 4? that seems... unnecessary. even more so in the case of stranglehold where you've got access to red.
i do see this as viable in a kingmaker deck, but who is playing commander just to make someone else win? the only place i'd ever run it is in a variant deck where you're teams are hidden but you're partnered with another player so they're technically your opponent and you can push them ahead of everyone else which will still count as your win... outside of that this thing is crap.
oh, and pro player doesn't matter much when a deck wins with something like lab man or thassa's oracle, or gets enough of an edge where their boardstate ends up insurmountable. in most pods an extra turn seals the deal and pushes you so far ahead. so neat, cool, you got a 5/5 and didn't die for a turn, big deal.
wow great you have pro that player, big deal. they combo out or get so far ahead it doesn't matter. can't even use this thing in 2 headed giant. waste of cardboard.
Are you sure because you and walkers get a True-Name Nemesis protection from the chosen one til your next turn
so you're jumping through hoops to get a 5/5 for 4? that seems... unnecessary. even more so in the case of stranglehold where you've got access to red.
i do see this as viable in a kingmaker deck, but who is playing commander just to make someone else win? the only place i'd ever run it is in a variant deck where you're teams are hidden but you're partnered with another player so they're technically your opponent and you can push them ahead of everyone else which will still count as your win... outside of that this thing is crap.
Wow....do you even play edh?
I see you forgot izzet legends or higher can do this
wow great you have pro that player, big deal. they combo out or get so far ahead it doesn't matter. can't even use this thing in 2 headed giant. waste of cardboard.
Are you sure because you and walkers get a True-Name Nemesis protection from the chosen one til your next turn
so you're jumping through hoops to get a 5/5 for 4? that seems... unnecessary. even more so in the case of stranglehold where you've got access to red.
i do see this as viable in a kingmaker deck, but who is playing commander just to make someone else win? the only place i'd ever run it is in a variant deck where you're teams are hidden but you're partnered with another player so they're technically your opponent and you can push them ahead of everyone else which will still count as your win... outside of that this thing is crap.
There are a lot of people that don’t play strictly to win at every game. But even still, there are a lot of people that want to play the political game and have playgroups full of casual and interesting decks. In those kinds of groups, this isn’t strictly a king-maker. It’s another political tool.
wow great you have pro that player, big deal. they combo out or get so far ahead it doesn't matter. can't even use this thing in 2 headed giant. waste of cardboard.
You must be one of those cEDH guys eh?
You don't give it to the combo player. You give it to the aggro player or the player in the weakest position and make trade deals with them.
wow great you have pro that player, big deal. they combo out or get so far ahead it doesn't matter. can't even use this thing in 2 headed giant. waste of cardboard.
Are you sure because you and walkers get a True-Name Nemesis protection from the chosen one til your next turn
so you're jumping through hoops to get a 5/5 for 4? that seems... unnecessary. even more so in the case of stranglehold where you've got access to red.
i do see this as viable in a kingmaker deck, but who is playing commander just to make someone else win? the only place i'd ever run it is in a variant deck where you're teams are hidden but you're partnered with another player so they're technically your opponent and you can push them ahead of everyone else which will still count as your win... outside of that this thing is crap.
Wow....do you even play edh?
I see you forgot izzet legends or higher can do this
yes, every week. we just play to win not ******** for 4 hours. trust me, this card won't be seeing play anywhere in a month. i'll eat one if i'm wrong. hell i'll eat two.
i'm not entirely sure what you mean by izzet legends or higher. can do what? win with thassa's oracle? well yeah that was my point. fact is if you cast it and target the combo player in the hope they nuke the table, you're losing, if you target the aggro player, they're getting far enough ahead where... you're losing. if you're targetting a player thats behind so they can catch up, why bother? its a bad card.
wow great you have pro that player, big deal. they combo out or get so far ahead it doesn't matter. can't even use this thing in 2 headed giant. waste of cardboard.
Are you sure because you and walkers get a True-Name Nemesis protection from the chosen one til your next turn
so you're jumping through hoops to get a 5/5 for 4? that seems... unnecessary. even more so in the case of stranglehold where you've got access to red.
i do see this as viable in a kingmaker deck, but who is playing commander just to make someone else win? the only place i'd ever run it is in a variant deck where you're teams are hidden but you're partnered with another player so they're technically your opponent and you can push them ahead of everyone else which will still count as your win... outside of that this thing is crap.
Wow....do you even play edh?
I see you forgot izzet legends or higher can do this
yes, every week. we just play to win not ******** for 4 hours. trust me, this card won't be seeing play anywhere in a month. i'll eat one if i'm wrong. hell i'll eat two.
i'm not entirely sure what you mean by izzet legends or higher. can do what? win with thassa's oracle? well yeah that was my point. fact is if you cast it and target the combo player in the hope they nuke the table, you're losing, if you target the aggro player, they're getting far enough ahead where... you're losing. if you're targetting a player thats behind so they can catch up, why bother? its a bad card.
TBF, in most threads for new cards you just go hard in on the hate. Maybe new cards just aren't your thing. This card will find a home in plenty of casual players decks, and that's okay. EDH is a casual format. Granted, cEDH is another beast, but most cards don't matter there, so that's not surprising. I, as will may other players, enjoy playing this in group hug/kingmaker decks. I have 3 group hug decks, and 2 of them have blue. So I am an example of someone that likes this card, very much. Not every card—or seemingly any of these cards—are for the type of player that only wants to play cutthroat EDH. That's okay. It's all okay.
wow great you have pro that player, big deal. they combo out or get so far ahead it doesn't matter. can't even use this thing in 2 headed giant. waste of cardboard.
Obviously that combo player won't be the one you help. You'd help other players in killing that combo player before he goes off.
wow great you have pro that player, big deal. they combo out or get so far ahead it doesn't matter. can't even use this thing in 2 headed giant. waste of cardboard.
Are you sure because you and walkers get a True-Name Nemesis protection from the chosen one til your next turn
so you're jumping through hoops to get a 5/5 for 4? that seems... unnecessary. even more so in the case of stranglehold where you've got access to red.
i do see this as viable in a kingmaker deck, but who is playing commander just to make someone else win? the only place i'd ever run it is in a variant deck where you're teams are hidden but you're partnered with another player so they're technically your opponent and you can push them ahead of everyone else which will still count as your win... outside of that this thing is crap.
Wow....do you even play edh?
I see you forgot izzet legends or higher can do this
yes, every week. we just play to win not ******** for 4 hours. trust me, this card won't be seeing play anywhere in a month. i'll eat one if i'm wrong. hell i'll eat two.
i'm not entirely sure what you mean by izzet legends or higher. can do what? win with thassa's oracle? well yeah that was my point. fact is if you cast it and target the combo player in the hope they nuke the table, you're losing, if you target the aggro player, they're getting far enough ahead where... you're losing. if you're targetting a player thats behind so they can catch up, why bother? its a bad card.
Izzet means blue and red I the guilds a ravnica have 2 color combinations izzet is blue and red
And not that I have to defend the card like boombox said your no different to a lot of web users they usually hate every card that pops out no matter how good it is but stuff like this is underrated none the less
So this will easily hit the underrated catergory on my book and casual players will play it for group hug decks, deals and teamwork for the arch enemy
so you're jumping through hoops to get a 5/5 for 4? that seems... unnecessary. even more so in the case of stranglehold where you've got access to red.
i do see this as viable in a kingmaker deck, but who is playing commander just to make someone else win? the only place i'd ever run it is in a variant deck where you're teams are hidden but you're partnered with another player so they're technically your opponent and you can push them ahead of everyone else which will still count as your win... outside of that this thing is crap.
Wow....do you even play edh?
I see you forgot izzet legends or higher can do this
yes, every week. we just play to win not ******** for 4 hours. trust me, this card won't be seeing play anywhere in a month. i'll eat one if i'm wrong. hell i'll eat two.
i'm not entirely sure what you mean by izzet legends or higher. can do what? win with thassa's oracle? well yeah that was my point. fact is if you cast it and target the combo player in the hope they nuke the table, you're losing, if you target the aggro player, they're getting far enough ahead where... you're losing. if you're targetting a player thats behind so they can catch up, why bother? its a bad card.
TBF, in most threads for new cards you just go hard in on the hate. Maybe new cards just aren't your thing. This card will find a home in plenty of casual players decks, and that's okay. EDH is a casual format. Granted, cEDH is another beast, but most cards don't matter there, so that's not surprising. I, as will may other players, enjoy playing this in group hug/kingmaker decks. I have 3 group hug decks, and 2 of them have blue. So I am an example of someone that likes this card, very much. Not every card—or seemingly any of these cards—are for the type of player that only wants to play cutthroat EDH. That's okay. It's all okay.
Gee if only there was a to repeatedly flicker it so opponents were forced to go after each other. Oh wait, how about Deadeye Navigator?
"If you cast it," ruins that notion.
So Crystal Shard, or maybe Sunken Hope could be good for reusing this ability. Granted, replaying this thing over and over doesn't actually help you. Playing it once might encourage some bad blood between your foes, but falling behind on board like this isn't really worth it.
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thats a holy crud type of group hug but you and walkers gain protection from that player for that turn though decent wish creatures was protected as well though
and its another otter bonus points
Of course, insta-ban in commander, it's the fate of elemental otters everywhere.
wow great you have pro that player, big deal. they combo out or get so far ahead it doesn't matter. can't even use this thing in 2 headed giant. waste of cardboard.
One player in a group I know rarely plays to win, just to stall the game and keep others from winning. She's going to go ape***** for this card. Also because it's a cute flying otter beater.
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Are you sure because you and walkers get a True-Name Nemesis protection from the chosen one til your next turn
And
Can turn off the extra turn part
Remember the DEBT of protection for players
Damaged by sources with the specified quality. (All such damage is prevented.)
Enchanted, equipped, or fortified by permanents with the specified quality.
Blocked by creatures with the specified quality.
Targeted by spells with the specified quality, or by abilities from sources of that quality.
Still lots of stuff but yes blocking or ridding cruelty is necessary
You're giving someone else a 5-mana effect in order to get a 4 mana 5/5. Sure there's some politicking you can do, and some two-card combos that get you a 4 mana 5/5 with no downside, but at the end of the day you're giving away a Time Walk in order to get an already appropriately costed body. Truly atrocious.
Meta dependent, but I don't think this card is worthless by a long shot.
Of course mainly this is just a group hug/political kind of card. A 5/5 flying for 4 is obviously efficient but not a card you particularly want for commander, so you want to have a reason to give someone an extra turn (politics, get a promise from that player to use the turn to harm someone else, etc.) or be very group hug to want this. Or, like I said, just kill them, but that's probably corner-case too.
Not all cards are for everyone, and this is especially true in commander. But as a large adorable flying otter that has political uses, I think this is going to make some people quite happy.
This is the kind of card you want to play at casual level Commander, give a player the extra turn that is friendly to you, they attack somebody else and get you ahead, then its good for you (and the protection ensures they wont mess with you in the meantime).
----
Fine card in my book, it does what it promises.
Not sure why they made it only do it on cast, thats kinda lame as flickering this guy with something like Thassa would be funny to get your "partner in crime" to beat all the other players up.
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Its the kind of card that players like that play Hunted Horror, Hunted Phantasm to beat a 3rd player up.
Theres a ton of cards that support that kind of deck.
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so you're jumping through hoops to get a 5/5 for 4? that seems... unnecessary. even more so in the case of stranglehold where you've got access to red.
i do see this as viable in a kingmaker deck, but who is playing commander just to make someone else win? the only place i'd ever run it is in a variant deck where you're teams are hidden but you're partnered with another player so they're technically your opponent and you can push them ahead of everyone else which will still count as your win... outside of that this thing is crap.
oh, and pro player doesn't matter much when a deck wins with something like lab man or thassa's oracle, or gets enough of an edge where their boardstate ends up insurmountable. in most pods an extra turn seals the deal and pushes you so far ahead. so neat, cool, you got a 5/5 and didn't die for a turn, big deal.
Wow....do you even play edh?
I see you forgot izzet legends or higher can do this
There are a lot of people that don’t play strictly to win at every game. But even still, there are a lot of people that want to play the political game and have playgroups full of casual and interesting decks. In those kinds of groups, this isn’t strictly a king-maker. It’s another political tool.
You must be one of those cEDH guys eh?
You don't give it to the combo player. You give it to the aggro player or the player in the weakest position and make trade deals with them.
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yes, every week. we just play to win not ******** for 4 hours. trust me, this card won't be seeing play anywhere in a month. i'll eat one if i'm wrong. hell i'll eat two.
i'm not entirely sure what you mean by izzet legends or higher. can do what? win with thassa's oracle? well yeah that was my point. fact is if you cast it and target the combo player in the hope they nuke the table, you're losing, if you target the aggro player, they're getting far enough ahead where... you're losing. if you're targetting a player thats behind so they can catch up, why bother? its a bad card.
TBF, in most threads for new cards you just go hard in on the hate. Maybe new cards just aren't your thing. This card will find a home in plenty of casual players decks, and that's okay. EDH is a casual format. Granted, cEDH is another beast, but most cards don't matter there, so that's not surprising. I, as will may other players, enjoy playing this in group hug/kingmaker decks. I have 3 group hug decks, and 2 of them have blue. So I am an example of someone that likes this card, very much. Not every card—or seemingly any of these cards—are for the type of player that only wants to play cutthroat EDH. That's okay. It's all okay.
Obviously that combo player won't be the one you help. You'd help other players in killing that combo player before he goes off.
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Rona, Disciple of Gix
Tiana the Auror
Hallar
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Izzet means blue and red I the guilds a ravnica have 2 color combinations izzet is blue and red
And not that I have to defend the card like boombox said your no different to a lot of web users they usually hate every card that pops out no matter how good it is but stuff like this is underrated none the less
So this will easily hit the underrated catergory on my book and casual players will play it for group hug decks, deals and teamwork for the arch enemy
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"If you cast it," ruins that notion.
So Crystal Shard, or maybe Sunken Hope could be good for reusing this ability. Granted, replaying this thing over and over doesn't actually help you. Playing it once might encourage some bad blood between your foes, but falling behind on board like this isn't really worth it.